your CV system...

train like you fight,

most fighting is the push/pull with your upper body and lowering and exploding up with your lower body in short busts of a couple min or less.

you will be doing short burst of 110% effort.  In class they most likly show you a skill then do it till you puke, repeat.  

So i would do rounds, buy a egg timer:  a exercise for 2 min then one min rest...work your way up to; 3 min on and one recover x 10 rounds.

e.g. push ups for 2 min keep moving even if you end up on your knees, then one min rest,  then squats for two min, one min rest...

train your body to give you 2-3 min of 110% then recover fast then, 110% then recover fast...

i would do a lot of body weight stuff...8 count push up, sprints, squats, pull ups, push ups, sit ups, jump squats, lunges....

I tend to agree with this.  Before starting KM I was jogging 3-4 days a week and doing some light weight lifting.  After spending some time in class, I started doing intervals, or rounds as fastmover described above; 3-4 different kinds of push ups, squats, sit ups, lunges, flutter kicks, crunches, etc.  and continued jogging 2-3 days a week.  

Unfortunately I've been out of the routine for a month now, which is going to make tomorrow a bitch, as I'm headed back to class.

They are called "franchises" and ya they showed up to Israel for 10 days of "training"





Avoid a franchise at all cost, and pay a real Israeli to teach you. That or find a professional self defense company who trains LEOs and Agency types.





 

I'm six weeks into KM classes, and thought I'd add my two cents while tagging this thread.

I studied TKD for a couple of years. While I got some conditioning and a wife out of it, i didn't get a whole lot by way of decent self defense skills. Looked into BJJ and went to classes for a few weeks, but ended up with the impression that it (the school I checked out at least) was focused almost entirely on MMA competition rather then potential multiple opponent, weapon, glass covered concrete kinds of scenerios. One of the staff at a local range here put me in touch with a KM instructor here, and I started attending his classes last June.

So far, I'm extremely impressed. the training tempo is far more intense then anything I've done before (Army Basic / AIT, McDojo TKD training, Tac medic training...). The skills being taught seem to be extremely pregmatic and functional, and the mindset is exactly what I was looking for. The OODA loop is covered, students are trained to assume an attacker is skilled, has weapons and has friends nearby, and the doctrine focuses on rapid, brutal counterattacks. Training focuses on learning skills which can be applied under stress, and periodically 'pressure testing' students, attempting to replicate stress as much as possible. We end up with a reading assignment every few classes, with the latest being Meditations on Violence by Rory Miller, a book that I cannot recommend strongly enough.

I was in decent shape to begin with, but the physical training to date has been intense. As another poster said, the pace has been 'balls to the wall', and I've subsequently switched from the longer, slower running I've done for years to high intensity interval training. I've also learned to both love and hate dirty burpies. Another poster said that ground fighting wasn't emphasized - I've found that ground fighting tactics revolve around getting your ass back up off the ground, predicated on the assumption that there is more then one assailent.

I'm not going to get involved in the discussions regarding the quality of franchise schools or some of the KM schools out there - I have no frame of reference outside of this one instructor. However, I'm in a job which occasionally causes me to go hands on with emotionally disturbed, violent patients, and I beleive I have enough background to realistically evaluate the 'real life' applicibility of techniques.  I'm extremely impressed with my instructor, and am very happy to have found his class.

Been taking it for a month and I absolutely love it!

Wow, talk about reviving a necro-thread.

Yup, I'm a bit over two years in now. I'm in the best shape of my life, and am extremely happy with both the curriculum and training doctrine / style. Gone hands on with violent subjects several times since starting KM, and have found it to be extremely effective.

HAHA! Didn't even check the post date for this thread...

Most BJJ schools focus on BJJ competition. Some might be more MMA focused, if they include boxing or Mui thai. There is Gracie Self Defense, which is more of a self defense system based upon BJJ.

Now, several comments, not specifically adressed to tommytrauma:

1) No one trains in real "street fighting". All unarmed fighting systems have some sort of rules . . . no one is actually eye gouging full force in sparing. Some box, kickbox, or grapple full force. Some include "street tactics" without the benifit of full force contact. But no one (that I know) practices full force no rules sparring.

2) With respect to knife fighting, 1 above also applies. My experience in sparing with knifes is that the guy without the knife quickly receives what would likely be nasty wounds every time. Usually very quickly. Mostly to hands, arms, or legs, but still . . . and this is even when I was a 2nd degree BB sparing a green belt. Now, aikido randori has neat knife defense where the defender isn't cut, but that is predicated upon an over committed attacker who is giving the defender the type of attack he wants.

3) Someone above said he had survived many knife attacks . That sets off my BS meter. I can see how someone was threatened many times with knifes, but actual attacks?

I was trained in the Military on Krav and after getting out I was taught during my Academy. I have kept up with this completing classes in my home state. It is made for self-defense. Not to go into a ring and fight. Yes most crossover, but Krav is designed to be used in a fight for your life.

Pretty nice.. have been interested in KM for a while but with no one near me its hard to try and pursue anything.. I've been looking into BJJ just because there are places around. Its hard to find people that you know will do a good job teaching. Paying someone to come teach you seems like a good idea but who knows how much that costs... Glad to see some good things about it for a change. Seems like everything ends up going with BJJ as a goto defense training.

Bump.

Been going for a little over a year now and I still love it...

I just took my level 1 test after 5 months of training. That was by far the most demanding physical thing I have ever done. I dont even know if I passed all I know is that I completed the test

What kind of injuries have you guys seen in Krav Maga training?

Been training in KM on and off for about4 years now.  I've seen the following injuries, some of them I experienced myself:

bloody lips
chipped tooth
cuts-eyebrows, arms, ears, hands
hyper-extended shoulder
massive bruising
broken nose
rug burn

I'm probably missing a few.

Bruises, sprained ankle, swollen lip..

The reason I ask is because I fly for a living and occasionally have all day layovers.  I enjoy checking out new gyms and styles while I'm out and about.  I train BJJ, Muay Thai, and Judo at home, but have been reluctant to do it out on the road, because if I get hurt I have customers and an airplane stranded somewhere.  

I did take a Krav class in Phoenix a couple weeks ago (which I really enjoyed) and it seemed a lot less risky than something like BJJ.  I'm sure there is still a risk of a turned ankle or something, but the chance of a broken arm, torn ligament, or other serious problems seem less likely.

Thanks for the examples of injuries, keep them coming.

I sprained both my wrists and had to take a month off

QFT.

Most of the KM studios in the US are targeted towards yuppies and soccer moms.  Very few are the real deal.

It's interesting to read the old postings on this subject.





Here is my 2 cents worth.





It is true that there are many sue-do KM instructors out there getting in on the KM fitness craze that has taken over Hollywood and on TV's fitness channels. That's why it is important to do extensive background research on any KM instructor or KM course.





I found my instructor in the local Jewish community in WNY. I checked his background and certs and found that he has trained under Avi Nardia, Mike Ruppel and others who are recognized the world over and more importantly recognized in Israel. Because of his connections I have be able to take advantage of receiving training instructions from some of these same individuals.





I know it will not always be possible to find a KM/KAPAP only school or
instructor because of were you live, but at the very least find a certified instructor from one of the highly
recognized KM organizations here in the US that at least is recognized or has it roots in Israel.





If it is not possible to find any of the above conditions but the instructor is certified in KM, then make sure that there is a clearly laid out plan on how to progress through each level.





KM is not a sport and was never meant to be or will be. So stay away from the Krav "fitness" craze.





My instructor is returning from Germany after receiving more advanced training in KM. Can't wait for classes to resume!
 
 

I just tested for orange 2 weeks ago and out of the 10 who tested we had 2 black eyes (1 bloody), a very slightly chipped tooth (mine) and a dislocated shoulder. Not to mention bruises. No bullshit.

Keep in mind that during testing people tend to go all out, so this wouldn't be the norm for a regular training session. Levels of intensity also vary from organization to organization.

If you're not sparring once you've passed the beginner stage you're not doing Krav Maga.

Where are you training?  I thought the group I trained with was rough.

No doubt. I was training with a cop the other day and he said I scared the shit out of him. Said he had to back off because he thought I was too mean.

It's Krav, not play fighting.

Krav Maga Federation in NYC.

Same results here.
Every week we'll get 1-2 newbees come in to try it out. First two lessons are free. More times than not, they usually don't come back.
I think the number one reason is that they couldn't believe how physically demanding it is and it was not like the traditional MA they may have pictured in the minds. They don't realize bumps, bruises and soreness are the results of training hard and is unavoidable in Krav Maga.
Safety is number one rule in our class. Cup, mouth guard and mandatory. Gloves, forearm and shin guards are your decision but are encouraged.



Out of control aggression is always dealt with immediately.
 

 

We call it 'self-selecting'. KM training is uncomfortable; anaerobic threshold training to simulate stress and offer conditioning pertinent to the short, intense nature of a fight, pressure testing, yadda yadda. If someone doesn't really want good training enough to go through that, they won't come back. The end result for us is motivated training partners who are there to train rather than socialize or learn elegant moves.

+1 on If someone doesn't really want
good training enough to go through that, they won't come back. The end
result for us is motivated training partners who are there to train
rather than socialize or learn elegant moves.



When you leave class, you feel like you accomplished something! The sessions are energetic and that energy is contagious. Everyone gives 100%!





 

I learned more about mindset and actual fight in 8 weeks of KM than I did in one year of Systema. The course I took was not very intense for carido but I think that was just my instructor. I did learn a lot about distance, speed, violence of action and above all awareness. Later on when I started exploring JKD and FMA I found some similarities, like low kicks the groin and inner leg and again overwhelming responses.
As stated above it is an actual fighting system meant for the real world, not the ring.

How long have you been a student/practitioner of KM?

You mentioned 8 weeks. Every school has there own "tiered progression" schedule for lack of a better description. Was that an introductory/basics class?

I'm going on 8 months. Now. My intro class was just one of the basic level 1 classes that my place teaches. It was rough for a newb like me. I took most of the Christmas break off due to family vacation and such, and I think it's tougher now getting back into the swing of things.

I hear that! Took two weeks off for the holidays and I feel like I was run over by a truck after I went back..

No one trains full contact with eye gouges and groin strikes. There are rules in all training methods.

I've always found that if it doesn't work in MMA, it probably won't work in the street either.  Sure I could plan on kicking you in the kneecap and take you out of the fight, but if I can't land a good leg kick sparring, I probably won't land that knee crusher either.

Well, consider eye gouges. If you are fighting a skilled striker, good luck landing an eye gouge. Most likely you will end up jamming your fingers and seriously pissing off your opponenet. It might work while defending a take down, but that's a short window. In ground fighting it will be very dangerous to use against someone with better position. Yeah, it could work, but it isn't some sort of magic bullet. You really need the basic fight skills, and then you can still eye gouge if the situation calls for it.

Others have responded well in re: to mma

Would like to add my (limited) experiences for those interested in Krav.

1) studied krav for about 6 months at what I would call one of the "franchise" type of practices. With that said, the instructors were all good and those that were there to train were serious about learning. Range of students in my level 1 class were LEOs, business professionals, aspiring military/leo, and former military. This was "beginner" level krav. I averaged 3 classes a week. If you're new to it and may be interested don't be turned off to try the "franchise" route. If you love it and want to take it to the next level, you can always look for specialized trainers. I went to Krav Maga on 59/Kirby in Houston, Tx and had good experiences. Typical class had maybe 10-16 students with guy to girl ratio being 70/30. I would also recommend women do this. I had a female grade school teacher in my class that was in her 40's. when my daughter gets of ate I'm going to support her learning at least a little krav. I think it's a great thing for women to learn bc they can be such a target.

2) I've always been a good athlete and have great coordination. Always been in good shape, not overly strong but defined. The pace of krav was intense and I threw up during my first class. I found myself eating healthier. It's amazing how my body would function differently if I ate bad the day before. I was without a doubt in the best shape of my life within a couple weeks and that's really saying something.

3) wear a cup. Wear a cup. Wear a cup. Also bring gloves. My only injuries were skinned/bloody knuckles and a sprained wrist from punching bags and mats repetitively.

4) lots of people washed out. It wasn't because they weren't good at it. It was because they weren't willing to train. It's exhausting and you gets pushed to the limits. There were many sessions where I'd have to sit in my car for a little while bc I didn't trust myself driving. My body was rubber. Typical class started out with 15-20 minutes of jogging, push-ups, crunches, bear crawls, wall sits, etc. The  after everyone is tired the real training begins. This is to try and mimic high stress situations or when you may actually have to defend yourself. You're not always going to be 100% healthy, 100% energized, 100% alert.

5) I found krav "easy" so to speak. By that I mean they teach the basics of various fighting styles. It's scrappy, it's not pretty. Punches, counters, blocks, etc are easy to pick up. It's all about using your instincts and direct actions.

6) preparation. If you were to physically and me tally prepare yourself before you start my advice would be to push yourself to the limits. Run intervals, do explosive drills, put a punching bag on the ground straddle it and punch the ever living shit out of it for 60 seconds. Elbow it knee it. Pretend it tried attacking your family and for 1 minute put everything you have into destroying it. That's basically what you'll be doing. Work on you core muscles. You don't have to bench press a ton of weight, build your core muscles.

Remember, street fighting doesn't last 5 minutes. If you got jumped in a parking garage it would be over in 30 seconds. Train as to which side you want to be on: the winning or losing. If someone tries to jump you in a garage... You're going to be the sh*t out of them in half a minute and they're either going to be fighting back, laying there unconscious or scared shi*tless and run away. You have to train that way and put all 110% of your energy into that small timeframe. That small window you have.

I'll add one other thing I liked. It taught me to pretty much block the attack and counter it at the same time. This isn't boxing where you punch and dance around a bit. You block their punch or kick and then immediately start waylaying. You never stop until you have neutralized the threat.

Damn that was long. Sorry. Just thought I'd share some experiences that I would have liked to know when I was getting into it! Best of luck

You might look into haganah in Houston near Clear Lake, I can vouch for that place.

Krav is a decent workout, but you aint gonna learn to to fight there.  You will NEVER learn to fight unless you join a class that actually forces you to FIGHT.

Like swimming...you learn it, by doing it.  Period.

-R

Been doing Krav for a year and a half and coming up on my green belt test in a month or so. Couple things:

1- Work hard at Level 1. It is to get you in shape and to teach you the fundamentals. If you slack off on Level 1 you will slack off on 2,3 etc...

2- Go to fight classes. They suck, they hurt, and it will feel like you are getting your ass kicked. But it totally changes Krav when you have to apply your techniques with another person. Oh what, you thought your target was going to stand still while you threw your perfect groin kick? You learn really fast that fighting is dirty as shit. If someone takes me to the ground and I am in trouble....I tend to start punching the groin or hitting the sides of their head, whatever it takes to get back up. We have had fight classes where it is 1 v 3 or 1 v the rest of the class. Talk about brutal.

3- Be careful. You can't train or defend yourself 100% in real life if you broke your rib during a Krav class. Some guys OVER-TRAIN or train dangerously. I have no issue with telling a guy I won't spar or train with him because he doesn't know how to manage his power. You have to know your limitations and know when it is time to say "stop". We had a guy last night dislocate his shoulder because the guy he was fighting with thought it would be a good idea to body slam him into the mat full power. Couple weeks ago I was fighting a guy and he did a spinning back kick damn near full power when he had an opening. It got me in the gut but if it hit my ribs I bet one would be broken. I immediately said fuck this and found a different partner. If you have an easy opening for an attack, you go 10% power to let your partner know they would have been hit. You are NEVER trying to hurt them for real.

4- Make friends with people. Don't be the guy who comes to class every-day, hardly speaks to anyone, and then leaves. You won't stay motivated for very long, and you are missing out on some good friendships (or possible relationships because of the cute women who show up). Being friends with everyone makes class that much more enjoyable, and you learn how to train better with one another.

Anyways if you have any questions about the lower levels of Krav just send me a PM and I will be happy to answer.

My first time in the MAs was karate (cross training in other styles as well) from '77 to '84, back when I was young. We were taught our secret weapon of knee kicks. Sounded good. Never really saw one in MMA.

Don't know where you're getting your information, but the fighting we do in my krav class (especially the pressure testing) makes the sparring I did in TKD look like a pillow fight.

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that's like being the smartest kid in special ed.

Good to know there. Thanks.

Please enlighten us with your experience...since you obviously have never been to higher level Krav classes

nice to see that guy shit in the thread and then bounce....

You see someone like him in pretty much any open conversation about any martial art. A sizable minority of MA students are attracted because they're insecure to begin with, and a lot of those end up with a strong need to believe that their system is better, and they're tougher / better trained / more hardcore than the other guy.

This guy thinks he's in a class "that actually forces you to FIGHT". That tells me everything I need to know regarding his actual knowledge and experience where the subject is concerned. With people like him, you just smile, nod and walk away.

lol krav maga...

your point?

concentrate on leg strength and cardio. Lots of squats and working on leg flexibility will help you out. Punching is more torso and pivoting than raw arm strength, and nothing ends a fight like a few broken ribs from knees.

I've done BJJ and I'm doing KM now. I cannot tell you how much I love KM. In BJJ, they taught for competitions. I don't give a shit about competing; I needed to learn to protect myself and my family. I've been doing KM for about 3 months and I've learned more in those 3 months than I did in the entire year of training in BJJ. The quality of training is much better as well as the students/partners. The guys don't take it easy on me. Pain is a great educator and the coaches use it to help you learn. I'm toning up in all the right ways. I am learning how to throw well placed punches and kicks.

I'm training at one of the best KM gyms in Texas. The coaches have all asked me to take the level test this weekend even though I'm still fairly new. All of the coaches do a fantastic job of talking through addressing threats, maintaining mind set and such.

If you can find a great gym, DO IT!