I recognize that shooting to slide lock is undesirable because it costs more time to rack the slide.

So I tried counting rounds and reloading before running dry. But I have practiced reloading from slide lock so many thousands of times that each and every time I reload with the slide in battery, my hand goes up to rack the slide before I have to stop myself - no time savings there.

When I accidentally lose track of round count and go to slide lock, I forget to rack the slide.

I try consciously thinking "slide lock - rack slide," or "no slide lock - no rack" in my head, but this doesn't seem to work (James Yeager warned against relying on this kind of higher brain activity in his scientist vs. caveman video).

I'm shooting single stack so I absolutely must get my mag changes under control. This is driving me crazy.

Please give me advice on how I can practice this obnoxious problem away. What do you do that works?

This is only my opinion. You should not count rounds - those thinkions are better spent elsewhere. You're making yourself make decisions on the fly about where and when you reload.

You're already skilled in reloading from lock - so why try to train that away?

Personally, I plan on when I'll reload before I shoot a stage. "when I transition from the third target to the fourth, I should reload, because I'll run out shooting the fourth otherwise."

This, I do the same. But it's not targets, for me it's shooting positions.(I shoot IPSC so reloads on the move are the rule)
When shooting single stack, I generally reload everytime I change positions.

When I plan the stage I plan the location of reloads. I assess the types and distance of targets and then give myself a number of backup rounds.
If the course has close targets, I will not leave many (sometimes none) rounds of margin. If the course is shooting steel at distance, I will often leave myself an extra round per target as my round margin.

(BTW, if you want to know how to handle your pistol and shoot fast and well, I would watch more videos by competitive shooters, and less 'combat' trainers)

I don't consciously think about it.  Instead I allow my subconscious mind to be aware of the PATTERNS that I've fired.  Without putting any conscious thought into it, at all, I know when to drop one mag and insert another.  I used to think that I was counting shots; but, then one day, I suddenly realized that it was the pattern, rhythm, and flow of my shots that was actually telling me when I need to change magazines.  

It's kind of like driving a car.  You don't think about exactly when to brake; you just do it, instead.  If you consciously thought about when, or when not to brake you'd probably end up rear-ending someone.  This isn't as unusual a skill as you might think.  Sports analysts have known for many years, now, that really excellent athletic performance often takes place on a subconscious level of personal awareness.  Have you ever heard a sports commentator make a comment like, 'I don't know, Bob, he seems to be too stiff, too mechanical; It looks to me like he isn't warmed up, yet.'  'In fact I'd say he's playing much too conscious a game, and needs to loosen up! '  

Let me bring this concept, 'home' for ya:  Sometimes when you're switching magazines you have to actually look, and aim the magazine for the bottom of the mag well; and, then, there are those other times when you don't have to look; you don't have to aim.  Instead, you simply use your proprioceptive reflexes in order to slam the magazine into the mag well, and instantly continue shooting.  Subconsciously knowing when to swap magazines is, very much, the same thing.

Don't rack the slide, you're wasting time doing it.

I started USPSA in production thinking racking the slide was the best way for a slide lock reload. I found the additional hand movement wasted time and the rear sight kept tearing up my hand. I started just hitting the slide stop. My weak hand swipes the slide stop right before I establish my weak hand grip. My strong hand can't reach the slide stop in the 1911 I shoot now.

The nice thing about just hitting the slide stop is it doesn't matter if you run it dry or not. When you make the reload you will see if the slide is back and know if you need to hit it. The trick in competition is making a plan where you reload where it won't hurt your time.

Check out how fast it can be,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bV3Qri0RR0

Check out this lefty doing it,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfxZGH2wiWg

Thank you everyone for your help. I think I have a plan for how to train now based on your advice.

Try keeping count of your shotgun reloads in 3-gun. :)

I'm using an old Browning A5 for 3-gun, and the bolt throws itself forward with the first shell loaded into the tube, so no time lost there!!

I wonder why pistol manufacturers don't include a similar feature into a self defense or competition pistol. I know that some polymer pistols will throw the slide forward if you pop it hard enough, but I'm talking about a purpose built feature you can count on to automatically put the slide into battery from slide lock.

just about any pistol slam the mag had enough you will close the slide.  Not a method I would recommend for reloads.

As painful as the statement, "slow is smooth, smooth is fast" this is a time where that works.  Slow down, do thing smooth and deliberate.  Count rounds (out loud if you have to) and make conscious decisions when to reload.  Your scores are going to suck for a little bit because that will be slow but you are trying to retrain skills that are now ingrained, subconscious, and second nature.  You will need to make the counting and decisions when to reload painfully conscious decisions.  Only after you are doing that consciously will you then be able to start speeding up again and letting the round counting sink back into your subconscious becoming second nature.  It will take concerted effort, almost exaggerated effort at first.

One other thing that helps is making good stage plans that include planing your reloads out ahead of time before shooting the stage.  Then walk that plan through the stage as many times as you can in your allotted walk through time.  If you execute your plan correctly and don't miss you don't need to count.  (Remember you're going slow right now so you should be shooting more accurately.)  If you simply shoot and reload where you planned no counting needed.  As you start to speed things up go to the next step and plan in extra shots, especially if there is difficult steel on the stage.  Have a plan that if you miss a steel at location X you will do and extra reload at place Y on the stage to get you back on plan.  A good plan means you are less dependent on counting. Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

As has been mentioned, this is a stage planning/visualization problem, more then a technical/technique problem.

You should never be "surprised" by a reload/slide lock during a stage run.  


Counting rounds is slow.  Slow is bad.  Your conscious mind can only dwell on one thing at a time; everything else should be subconscious.


Your conscious mind need to be occupied by either calling shots or watching your sights.


As to the problem of reloading and feeling compelled to rack the slide, yet another reason why using the slide release lever is superior.  Even if you have a compulsion to do this after every reload, whether in battery or not, if you are swiping the lever every time you're not losing as much time as you are when you rack the slide manually.  


But I would encourage you to make this process subconscious through diligent training.  You should be able to feel the difference in a OOB reload versus an IB reload and automatically be swiping the lever for every OOB reload.  

 
With all due respect, anytime a person advocates doing something "slow" in the context of an action pistol sport (particularly USPSA:  DVC), I tend to turn off my brain and tune them out.  I firmly believe there is a right way and a wrong way to conceptualize the things we do in action pistol.  It may be considered trite, but I don't want to plant the seed in my head that doing anything slow is okay.  The result may be slow, but our thinking about things should only be about going as fast as our current level of skill and technique allows us to go.   Again, a slow result is okay, if that is a reflection of your current abilities.  But our attitude and approach should always be about doing things fast as possible.

You didn't read my whole post.  I said go slow while you're retraining you brain to a new set of skills, not to go slow to be fast.  If all you do is go fast while trying to learn something new (and unlearn something old) all you will do is frustrate yourself.  Go slow until you have the actions ingrained and have eliminated your old methods then speed up.  Again going slow to be smooth to be fast is stupid.  Going slow to train your brain a new action that you will later execute fast is good.

 
I did read your whole post, and I disagreed with it.  Hence my earlier post.  For the record, I still disagree with it despite the clarification.

So your telling us that when you change something in your training or are learning to use a new piece of equipment you only do it at "as fast as you can" speeds?  You don't ever slow down to work through the details of something new?

 
Not consciously, no.  I never start out saying "I'm purposely going to do this drill slowly".  It may be the case that I AM slower when I'm trying something new, but that's not because I'm consciously TELLING myself to be slower.  I will probably be slower by default, because I don't have the requisite skill built to be as fast as I was with the original gear/technique.


I think we need to distinguish between outcomes and mindsets here.


We also need to distinguish between training and matches, and the different "modes" that one may use depending on the circumstances.  

Tactical Reload

Speed reload

Go to google and research booth.  

Counting rounds is Hollywood bullshit and you will never do it under stress.  

I don't know...

Shot Limited-10 exclusively for several years.  My XD-40 with 15rd magazines was not competitive in Limited.  Started shooting 3-Gun where there is no Limited-10.  For the first several matches I picked up a lot of 5rd+ magazines after stages and I was telling myself and intending to shoot more than 10rds before I reloaded.  Shooting 10rds (or less) and reloading pretty much every time my feet moved was ingrained and second nature to me after years of shooting L-10

Was I counting?  Not consciously, but clearly in my subconscious I knew that I needed to reload before I fired that 11th round and without fail I reloaded.  It took a lot of conscious effort and practice to retrain my subconscious to fully utilize the increased capacity.  Was that the stress of a real life fight, no, but 3-gun was new to me then I was running lots of new gear that I had not run in competition before (except my pistol).  Despite the added stress of transition from USPSA to 3-gun and all the new gear and rules to keep track of the ingrained training of, "shoot-10rds and reloaded" was still in control when my hands where driving my pistol.

Was I counting or not???

This.  Weak hand hits the slide release as it returns to the grip.  

I realize using the slide release isn't the Tacticool way to do it, that it's not being taught in the self defense schools.  

But it is faster, and I don't see where it is less reliable.  The people who will tell you it is more difficult because it is a "fine motor skill" shouldn't be teaching anyway.  Mashing down on a little lever is much less of a fine motor skill than pressing a trigger, while maintaining a crisp sight picture.

Not to be a toad but are you loading a Barney round for 8+1 at the start?

Plan out when and where you want to do your reloads. It will solve your problem.

I go between SS, Heavy Metal 3Gun (think Limited 10), and Scoped Tactical (Limited).  I do not have any issues as I plan my reloads.  Now if I fail my plan, I DO have an issue :D  I also plan my reloads while moving.  If I am doing a reload while standing, I have failed  I also use the slide stop, even though I do not need to very often, because I would have failed.. :D

I shoot IDPA to induce stress into my shooting.
I have read that your hands become like flippers during a real shooting. I've had this confirmed by police officers that have been involved in shootings.
They say to always use the slide rack method because your thumb won't have the dexterity to operate the slide release.
I shoot IDPA for practice not to win.

If your thumb doesn't have the dexterity to operate the slide release, you don't need to worry about reloads.  Because if your reasoning is correct, you won't have the dexterity to operate the mag release at that point either.

 
nor the dexterity in your trigger finger to pull the trigger.


the whole "fine motor skill vs gross motor skill" school of thought is BS.

I've talked to people who say that in a life or death situation, you mash the trigger. You finger isn't frozen, you will not have the dexterity to press the trigger so you will pull your shots off target.

What do I know. I just have talked or read some of the experts like Dave Spalding.

You probably know more than them.

Original poster, just practice reloading until it's second nature. The only way to get good at reloading is to practice.

In USPSA when I first started I would count the targets, then I would know where I would reload "if I didnt miss" it would screw me up everytime, now I run it dry, reload & go.

So according to you and your experts, we shouldn't bother carrying guns at all, as we won't be able to shoot without mashing the trigger and missing our target. Then when we have exhausted all of our ammo, we will be incapable of reloading, as we lack the dexterity to manipulate all of those little buttons. (But if we somehow manage it, we should rack the slide back into battery. Because we are capable of doing that).  Then if we are still alive we can then continue shooting poorly, trigger mashing all the while until we are out of ammo again and repeat the process.

Is that how it works? Because that's how your logic sounds.

Sorry, I don't know who that is. I must not be tacticool enough. But I can still find my little slide release.

Garrett

I think what I do because of science.
Read this.
http://handguncombatives.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-speed-vs-emergency-reload-when-why.html?m=1

 
Nothing you just posted contains any "science".

Please don't take this the wrong way.  I'm just trying to understand what you are advocating, and the logic doesn't follow through.  
Just so I understand, you say:

You then say:

To support your assertion, you link a blog by Mr. Spalding:

Did you even read the article?  Because it does not help make your case.  In fact, the author (the expert you mention earlier) advocates not doing what you suggest.  

The "fingers turn to stumps" misunderstanding he mentions sounds similar to your "hands become flippers".  

If you continued reading, you would see where Dave says:

He isn't saying fingers always turn to stumps.  He is saying to practice an action to the point that it can be done unconsciously.  At that point you will be able to perform the action, even when under stress.

He then goes on to point out why the slide rack is not the best way to reload, since it is slow, and keeps your hands off of a firing grip for an excessive amount of time.  

He suggests, first reloading prior to going to slide lock.  In the event you do go to slide lock, he proposes: "If using the slide lever, consider using the support hand thumb to push down. This adds a few 1/10ths but ensures the magazine is seated first."

I'm not currently advocating one technique over another.  But here is something I found interesting.
(skip ahead to 0:28)

OMG, you guys need to get a life.
I have better things to do.
I don't care if you reload via slide release or racking the slide.
I tried to pass on my knowledge and experiences.
But you know everything.
Your mind is made up and no matter what anyone else says could possibly have any validity.
I will not devote one more second to this thread.
You win. Your smart I'm dumb.
Your right and I'm wrong.
Oh, thanks, I am not taking any offense to this discussion.
No hard feelings.
Have a good day.

Sorry if that all came off as rude.  

There are many different opinions, and usually more than one "correct" way to do something.  Also, what works best for one person may not be the best for another. It seems there is usually not a one-size-fits-all answer for every situation.

Thank you for your insight and opinions.

Drama aside, here's your answer:

- Stop watching Yeager, he's a fucking retard of the highest calibre.
- Practice. Practice. Practice. PRACTICE AGAIN.
- Buy Stoeger's dry/live fire books if you plan to take it to a high level.

You're welcome