User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
NC, USA
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Posted: 7/7/2015 6:31:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Doe_Nuts]
What pistol division (e.g. SSP, ESP, Production, Limited, etc) do you shoot for IDPA and/or USPSA? Why?
Because you already had a certain pistol before starting and didn't want to switch? You find one division is more or less competitive than others in your particular area? I shoot SSP and Production, just because I had already invested in a pistol, mags, holster, ect. before starting. As I am still relatively new to the sport, I made the assumption that folks would start in SSP/Production and move towards ESP/Limited/Open as they progressed. However, I don't think that is the case anymore. It seems like SSP/Production is the most popular and competitive for some reason. |
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Posted: 7/7/2015 8:13:29 AM EDT
[#1]
I started SSP because the gun I had was in that division. I made some changes to it that kicked me into ESP. Now I'm thinking of getting another gun and going back to SSP.
In my area SSP seems to be more competitive, meaning that people who place in the top 10 are usually fairly close in score. In ESP, you get the top 4 or 5 then everyone else starts getting spread out. I think it is because a lot of newbs like me do stuff to their gun and end up shooting ESP against 9mm 1911's or some other race gun. At the last state match, my score shooting ESP would have placed me higher in SSP and frankly my gun could probably pass as SSP if there wasn't an inspection  . So, I figure going back to SSP will help my results at matches in terms of how I place and I can use my ESP gun for Steel Challenge and general fun.
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TN, USA
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Posted: 7/7/2015 9:16:20 AM EDT
[#2]
Originally Posted By Doe_Nuts:
What pistol division (e.g. SSP, ESP, Production, Limited, etc) do you shoot for IDPA and/or USPSA? Why? Because you already had a certain pistol before starting and didn't want to switch? You find one division is more or less competitive than others in your particular area? I shoot SSP and Production, just because I had already invested in a pistol, mags, holster, ect. before starting. As I am still relatively new to the sport, I made the assumption that folks would start in SSP/Production and move towards ESP/Limited/Open as they progressed. However, I don't think that is the case anymore. It seems like SSP/Production is the most popular and competitive for some reason. price an open gun set up, not cheap for a limited use firearm. production is cheap to get into and cheaper to shoot. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 7/7/2015 10:21:40 AM EDT
[#3]
Started shooting USPSA with an XD-40 Tactical. Mostly shot Limited-10 due to its limited capacity (not a true double stack, 40S&W stuffed into magazine bodies meant for 9mm). Then I got into Revolver, the division where REAL men shoot. Started with a S&W 610 6.5-inch barrel, shooting 40S&W back in 2007. In 2011 upgraded to a S&W 625 5-inch gun. Late in 2013, Shortly before I USPSA changed the Revolver rules to allow 8-shot minor, I picked up S&W 627 PC 5-inch. My intention was to shoot it in Production to get more double action trigger time. Turned out I had set myself up nicely to transition to 8-shot minor Revolver.
For IDPA I shoot Revolver division with and old S&W Model 10 Heavy-barrel. I am still petitioning IDPA to allow me to duel wield S&W J-frames in BUG_R since two aluminum J-frames will fit in the BUG-R box and be under the BUG-R weight limit.
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TN, USA
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Posted: 7/7/2015 10:54:24 AM EDT
[#4]
Originally Posted By Doe_Nuts:
What pistol division (e.g. SSP, ESP, Production, Limited, etc) do you shoot for IDPA and/or USPSA? Why? Because you already had a certain pistol before starting and didn't want to switch? You find one division is more or less competitive than others in your particular area? I shoot SSP and Production, just because I had already invested in a pistol, mags, holster, ect. before starting. As I am still relatively new to the sport, I made the assumption that folks would start in SSP/Production and move towards ESP/Limited/Open as they progressed. However, I don't think that is the case anymore. It seems like SSP/Production is the most popular and competitive for some reason. I spent from mid 2011 through early this year shooting production and ssp, and switched to limited and esp this year. I can't say why other than because I wanted to test the waters. I was borderline on A class in production but justin wanted something new I guess. I'm enjoying shooting limited though with the never ending 20rd mags, race rig, and basically whatever mods I want minus optics and comps. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 7/7/2015 11:39:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Run-n-gun74]
[#5]
Ss and production because im shooting matches to get better at shooting real guns that i might actually be carrying, this is the reason i dont own any raceguns . Shoot an xd tac for production and a springer trp for ss. Also shoot the trp at steel matches .
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Posted: 7/7/2015 12:49:59 PM EDT
[#6]
Production, because it's the cheapest way for me to participate in the sport.
I also enjoy the challenge of minor scoring and stage planning around 10 round mag limits. Even if I were made of money I think I'd still shoot production. |
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Posted: 7/8/2015 9:02:06 AM EDT
[#7]
I started in Limited in the late '90s, because I didn't have a gun for Open - the only other division. IDPA didn't exist then.
I mostly shoot Open now... because they don't have a full-auto division. 
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NC, USA
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Posted: 7/8/2015 12:02:41 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xXGearheadXx:
I spent from mid 2011 through early this year shooting production and ssp, and switched to limited and esp this year. I can't say why other than because I wanted to test the waters. I was borderline on A class in production but justin wanted something new I guess. I'm enjoying shooting limited though with the never ending 20rd mags, race rig, and basically whatever mods I want minus optics and comps. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xXGearheadXx:
Originally Posted By Doe_Nuts:
What pistol division (e.g. SSP, ESP, Production, Limited, etc) do you shoot for IDPA and/or USPSA? Why? Because you already had a certain pistol before starting and didn't want to switch? You find one division is more or less competitive than others in your particular area? I shoot SSP and Production, just because I had already invested in a pistol, mags, holster, ect. before starting. As I am still relatively new to the sport, I made the assumption that folks would start in SSP/Production and move towards ESP/Limited/Open as they progressed. However, I don't think that is the case anymore. It seems like SSP/Production is the most popular and competitive for some reason. I spent from mid 2011 through early this year shooting production and ssp, and switched to limited and esp this year. I can't say why other than because I wanted to test the waters. I was borderline on A class in production but justin wanted something new I guess. I'm enjoying shooting limited though with the never ending 20rd mags, race rig, and basically whatever mods I want minus optics and comps. Do you shoot the same gun in limited and ESP? If so, what is it? |
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Posted: 7/8/2015 1:07:51 PM EDT
[#9]
I shoot mainly production for now, i have shot limited before. My reasoning is with only 10rds in the mag i can use any pistol i have(Th9, g26, g19, xd45, SP01.) plus i get alot of work on reloads. It doesnt hurt that it is the least popular division at the matches i attend.
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Posted: 7/8/2015 1:19:40 PM EDT
[#10]
I shoot production because it's fun, very competitive in my area, and (arguably) more applicable to the real world.
Infinity is releasing some SWEET looking limited and open guns... I'm thinking about going into open because raceguns are pretty neat and I'd like to do more shooting with a dot even though I still have good eyes. |
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Posted: 7/8/2015 1:29:27 PM EDT
[#11]
Production because I had everything I needed when I started.
Limited because full mags and more power 
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Posted: 7/8/2015 10:28:48 PM EDT
[#12]
I shoot IDPA's CCP division with a VP9 mainly because it still is good for SSP and ESP and I compare those scores with CCP anyway. I used to shoot an MP9Pro in SSP and G34 in ESP. In Production, which I haven't shot USPSA in forever, is usually a CZ75. |
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Posted: 7/9/2015 12:13:22 PM EDT
[#13]
MM REV with my S&W 586
SS SSP (don't have the gun anymore) S&W M&P 9FS SSP ESP with my G35 with 9mm conversion barrel UN CCP with my G19 I enjoy them all. All are challenging and exciting in their own right. |
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Posted: 7/9/2015 12:36:43 PM EDT
[#14]
Limited, because if i'm spending money on mags I'm filling them up. And because I can't afford Open. I also dabble in production.
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Posted: 7/9/2015 6:34:04 PM EDT
[#15]
Production because I can't afford a 2011 right now.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/10/2015 9:06:37 AM EDT
[#16]
I started shooting IPSC (before USPSA) just to learn some handgun skills around 1981 with an non affiliated club...the club became affiliated a year or so later, and pretty much everyone was shooting 1911s in .45... no divisions.... stuck a comp barrel on it, but lobbied Section Coordinator Bill Rogers to offer a separate "limited" division, as the .38supers and later high cap supers were becoming very popular...suggested the name, and allowable modifications... shot a single stack up until the regained popularity of 3 gun.... with no major/minor scoring at the matches put on by the military guys at Ft Bragg and Ft Benning there was a competitive advantage to shoot a high cap nine, as well as that was what I chose as a carry pistol...broke a link in the 1911 at Ft Benning in 2006, and switched to the Glock platform...I really enjoy 3 gun, so shoot a retention holster and high cap mags for USPSA, in Limited minor...
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Posted: 7/11/2015 4:35:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: steve8140]
[#17]
IDPA here and I shoot SSP. I shoot this because I don't want a custom competition gun, I want to train with my real everyday gun.
I'm actually one of the few people locally who shoots my everyday carry gun (g23) in a crossbreed super tuck. Mags on my left side waist and another in my pocket. |
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Posted: 7/12/2015 6:57:23 PM EDT
[#18]
I don't even bother with IDPA. They take one look at me and say "Failure to do right".
 I've dabbled in all the USPSA divisions except Revo. I really like Open but I've been concentrating on SS. I've found SS requires a lot more discipline and patience than Open does. I feel like when I go back to Open it will be a lot easier. |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 7/13/2015 1:00:25 PM EDT
[#19]
Started in USPSA Single Stack as that is what I had. Used the same gun also in 3Gun, shooting Heavy Metal and Limited. Currently shooting Production as that is what I have now, and I got tired of using 2 different guns between the two sports. Production means 2 more rounds, and faster reloads with that wide open magwell :D
Production here used to be the biggest turnout, about 1/2 of the shooters. Currently has shifted, with almost 1/2 being in Limited. I have thought about getting Limited gun, which for me would be adding a whole new caliber to the mix, and something I am not really keen on doing at the moment. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 7/13/2015 1:05:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: xXGearheadXx]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Doe_Nuts:
Do you shoot the same gun in limited and ESP? If so, what is it? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Doe_Nuts:
Originally Posted By xXGearheadXx:
Originally Posted By Doe_Nuts:
What pistol division (e.g. SSP, ESP, Production, Limited, etc) do you shoot for IDPA and/or USPSA? Why? Because you already had a certain pistol before starting and didn't want to switch? You find one division is more or less competitive than others in your particular area? I shoot SSP and Production, just because I had already invested in a pistol, mags, holster, ect. before starting. As I am still relatively new to the sport, I made the assumption that folks would start in SSP/Production and move towards ESP/Limited/Open as they progressed. However, I don't think that is the case anymore. It seems like SSP/Production is the most popular and competitive for some reason. I spent from mid 2011 through early this year shooting production and ssp, and switched to limited and esp this year. I can't say why other than because I wanted to test the waters. I was borderline on A class in production but justin wanted something new I guess. I'm enjoying shooting limited though with the never ending 20rd mags, race rig, and basically whatever mods I want minus optics and comps. Do you shoot the same gun in limited and ESP? If so, what is it? STI Marauder .40cal. (an eagle would work too). 155gr minors and 200gr majors, all i have to do is swap the recoil spring. Now the VA state IDPA is out of the way i'm going back to strictly USPSA for a while though. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/20/2015 7:44:32 PM EDT
[#21]
I shoot the same gun in both SSP and ESP.
I've also shot my BUG gun in CCP and SSP. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 7/27/2015 1:39:03 PM EDT
[#22]
I shoot Production in USPSA and once in great while I'll shoot IDPA in SSP.
The reason I chose Production is my only viable handgun XD9 Service fits best there. I'm going to be buying an XD9 Tactical in the next couple of weeks and retire my Service to nightstand duty and backup. It has treated me well with over 12k rounds through it with no maintenance other than wiping the slide out and cleaning the barrel out. I really want to keep the commonality with the XD and not having to rebuy enough mags. I'm only a high C shooter so I'm not seeing a Stock 2 or Shadow being as much of a help. What I need is to dry fire several times a week. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 7/27/2015 8:44:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: zw123]
[#23]
I've shot all but SS and Rev in USPSA.
SSP, ESP and CDP in IDPA. Because I have all the pistols for each. |
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Posted: 7/28/2015 11:08:19 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jbizzle: What I need is to dry fire several times a week. Time to get out of C Class. |
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Posted: 7/31/2015 11:39:26 AM EDT
[#25]
Mainly Rev and ESP/CCP in IDPA. Rarely SSP
Mainly SS and rarely Production or Rev in USPSA. I really can see the appeal of Limited. All the planning SS or REV require can be very frustrating at times. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 7/31/2015 3:46:59 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wtturn:
http://www.amazon.com/Dry-Fire-Training-Practical-Pistol-Shooter/dp/1497319633 Time to get out of C Class. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wtturn:
Originally Posted By jbizzle:
What I need is to dry fire several times a week. http://www.amazon.com/Dry-Fire-Training-Practical-Pistol-Shooter/dp/1497319633 Time to get out of C Class. The sad thing is I've had that book for about 6 months and haven't gotten farther than flipping through it. Once I get my XD Tactical is next week or two I'll start on the drills. I don't like unloading my other XD all the time (dual role night stand gun). |
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Posted: 7/31/2015 10:07:50 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jbizzle: The sad thing is I've had that book for about 6 months and haven't gotten farther than flipping through it. Once I get my XD Tactical is next week or two I'll start on the drills. I don't like unloading my other XD all the time (dual role night stand gun). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jbizzle: Originally Posted By wtturn: Originally Posted By jbizzle: What I need is to dry fire several times a week. http://www.amazon.com/Dry-Fire-Training-Practical-Pistol-Shooter/dp/1497319633 Time to get out of C Class. The sad thing is I've had that book for about 6 months and haven't gotten farther than flipping through it. Once I get my XD Tactical is next week or two I'll start on the drills. I don't like unloading my other XD all the time (dual role night stand gun). I can't help with the motivation issue. That part's up to you. |
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Posted: 8/1/2015 9:23:58 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JSG:
Mainly Rev and ESP/CCP in IDPA. Rarely SSP Mainly SS and rarely Production or Rev in USPSA. I really can see the appeal of Limited. All the planning SS or REV require can be very frustrating at times. I'm a round gun guy. I have semi's, but when I open my safe, 90% of the time my hand falls on a revolver. The challenge of breaking down a stage for 6 shots was the thing that I enjoyed most about USPSA revolver. I shoot the 8 shot now to remain competitive, but still like the old 625 best. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 8/3/2015 1:51:46 PM EDT
[#29]
I shoot production... for now.
By far the biggest division around here is Limited, but when I see these guns run through stages hosing targets with nary a through to reloading, I'm glad I stick to production. Lots more strategy IMO w/ 10 rd. mags and that's part of the fun. That said, if I'm going to hose, I want to be the fastest, off to open for me. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 9/22/2015 5:09:21 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SamW:
I shoot production... for now. By far the biggest division around here is Limited, but when I see these guns run through stages hosing targets with nary a through to reloading, I'm glad I stick to production. Lots more strategy IMO w/ 10 rd. mags and that's part of the fun. That said, if I'm going to hose, I want to be the fastest, off to open for me. I like shooting production and Limited. Haven't tried open or SS...yet. Production bc my g34 gun is very close my EDC G19. Limited because it is flat out fun. Running irons with 1 reload as oppose to 3 for the win. With production, I am much more careful calling those shots. Overall time in production is significantly higher than Limited, so accuracy is a must! |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/28/2015 6:24:02 PM EDT
[#31]
in USPSA I used to shoot Limited so I could use full 17 round magazines in my G17. After I got classified I went to production but now that I have my production class I'll probably go back to Limited. Maybe....who knows.
IDPA I shoot SSP because that's where my G17 goes. Wish I could shoot a production or stock division where my GLOCK could actually shoot where it came from the factory. |
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Posted: 11/30/2015 9:24:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Limited and Limited-10 is all I've done.
I started IPSC around 1993 there was open or limited I shot limited with a 45ACP 1911 I checkered it, and fitted some of the parts, Ken Hallock milled it for BoMar sights. It was wonderful. 
When the Hicap 2011's came out, I bought a frame, and parted her out I never had as much fun with the 45ACP SVI I put together, it was never 100% reliable. I bought a used Glock22, and later a 24 upper, and tried that for a while, but missed my 1911's Around 1997, I bought a basic early Kimber, and built that back up, similar to my old Springfield. Pretty much every part, except the slide and frame are aftermarket. hand fitted KART, SVI internals, hand checkered, hard-chromed by METALIFE, etc, 
I played LIM-10 for a while, and even dabbled in [cough] IDPA, but could not relate to there goofy rules, and hostility toward IPSC then I sold an M1A and bought a proper STI Limited gun, and had some custom work done. 
LOVE this thing, it's been a ton of fun. started playing 3-gun too... 
About 5 years ago, things changed,....my work schedule got turned upside down, and my kids got into sports, I haven't shot a match in a few years. Really miss it but I still shoot a lot, usually on mondays . |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 6:15:15 PM EDT
[#33]
Shot IPSC Production for about 5 years with a Glock 17.
Moved up to "Standard" for a year now with a Glock 35 in .40 major. Have a 1911 Springfield single stack .45 and could shoot "Classic" with that. Looking now to get an Open gun built as the eyes are not what they used to be. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/21/2016 12:36:21 PM EDT
[#34]
USPSA. I shoot two divisions in that.
I started shooting Limited because I think that a "production" gun running 10 rounds even though it's capable of carrying way more was dumb and wanted to run my carry gun at full capacity. I'm running a stock gun but run magazines at full capacity. I started production after classing in limited and while it's fun I'm classed in production and will probably be moving back into limited when I go back to Texas because again I hate shooting courses with 10 rounds in a gun that can hold 17+1. IDPA. I shoot in SSP with my G17. No other classes. I don't really care for the IDPA ruleset but where I'm at now there's way more IDPA type matches than USPSA. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/3/2016 10:28:32 PM EDT
[#35]
Uspsa production. I like the "freestyle" approach to engaging targets. Production because my m&p is box stock. I do have a new comp-tac holster that I love. I have a set of Dawson Precision sights that are going on on Tuesday. Just in time for Saturday's match.
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Posted: 4/4/2016 8:26:52 AM EDT
[#36]
For me its SS but I did just finish a Glock 24 for limited. Not sure how much I will shoot it I just like SS but most of the time its me and one other person for the weekend match.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 4/4/2016 9:22:23 AM EDT
[#37]
Single stack primarily.
Started shooting production as a second gun, but found limited helped me to focus on improving other areas of my game. Focusing on navigating stages with the most efficient movement instead of counting to 8 or 10 and planning stages around reloads. Transferred that mindset of getting from start to finish in the fastest time to my ss game helped me to improve quite a bit |
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Posted: 4/5/2016 5:56:14 PM EDT
[#38]
Started in Lim 10 with a USP in 45. Went to Limited in 40, shot 80% at nationals. Went to production with a P30L/VP9 9mm, made GM. Bored reloading all the time.
Back to Limited now with a full house 2011. Got the 9mm 2011 for the lim minor/3gun days and a 40 for the uspsa major days. 
Limited is just a blast. You will learn more about how to really improve in the game by shooting straightforward stages as hard as possible. It allows you to focus on movement and logical breakdown as opposed to reloading every time you move three feet. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 4/6/2016 9:51:49 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DoctorNo:It allows you to focus on movement and logical breakdown as opposed to reloading every time you move three feet. Traitor! |
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Posted: 4/6/2016 8:10:45 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Peally23:
Traitor! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Peally23:
Originally Posted By DoctorNo:It allows you to focus on movement and logical breakdown as opposed to reloading every time you move three feet. Traitor! Hah .. I just got bored with it. I'm really good at reloading now though
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Posted: 4/6/2016 9:59:24 PM EDT
[#41]
Made GM and switch divisions?
Sandbagger! |
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Posted: 4/6/2016 10:21:16 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJE:
Made GM and switch divisions? Sandbagger! Now that is not far from the truth.
I did shoot a 100%'r the other day, tho.. |
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Posted: 4/8/2016 1:19:31 AM EDT
[#43]
I have bombed both classifiers I have shot this year
My buddies are giving me shit for doing it on purpose since I got a slot to Nationals. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 4/8/2016 10:18:46 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DoctorNo:
Now that is not far from the truth.
I did shoot a 100%'r the other day, tho.. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DoctorNo:
Originally Posted By AJE:
Made GM and switch divisions? Sandbagger! Now that is not far from the truth.
I did shoot a 100%'r the other day, tho.. GM and can't make hundos every time? Grandbagger! I'm just fucking with you
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Posted: 4/8/2016 10:41:05 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Peally23:
GM and can't make hundos every time? Grandbagger! I'm just fucking with you Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Peally23:
Originally Posted By DoctorNo:
Originally Posted By AJE:
Made GM and switch divisions? Sandbagger! Now that is not far from the truth.
I did shoot a 100%'r the other day, tho.. GM and can't make hundos every time? Grandbagger! I'm just fucking with you If you aren't one, you're the other 
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Posted: 4/13/2016 7:14:41 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJE:
If you aren't one, you're the other Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJE:
Originally Posted By Peally23:
Originally Posted By DoctorNo:
Originally Posted By AJE:
Made GM and switch divisions? Sandbagger! Now that is not far from the truth.
I did shoot a 100%'r the other day, tho.. GM and can't make hundos every time? Grandbagger! I'm just fucking with you If you aren't one, you're the other It hurts but it's true!
That's the one thing I'm really lacking to win is consistency. When I hook up it's righteous but I don't seem to be able to put it all together often enough. This season is feeling pretty good though .. |
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Posted: 8/2/2016 10:31:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Azygos]
[#47]
When doing IDPA, which is infrequent, I go with CDP.
I finally decided it was time to invest in a limited race rig, not because there aren't guns in my safe that would do do fine for single stack or limited-10. I've wanted to get into USPSA/IPSC since the early 1980s, so saved my pennies to acquire a gently used STI 2011. I've used it for a couple steel challenge matches and my first-ever USPSA match last weekend. I'm not in any danger of toppling the other C class guys any time soon, but everybody has to start somewhere.
I've lost that CR Speed belt keeper somewhere in the garage. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 8/17/2016 12:18:34 PM EDT
[#48]
Production and CO for me.
While I have shot Limited for a season, I admit it's A LOT of fun. Run N gun. Hardly any reloads. Production makes me think a bit more and shooter has to plan. I love seeing what plan that production guys come up with. Also, since everything is scored minor...It's even more important to get those Alphas. Carry Optics because it's stupid fast production. No wonder the classifier HF are only a few tenths under Limited. |
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CT, USA
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Posted: 10/6/2016 5:13:16 AM EDT
[#49]
It's a shame Production is only 10 rounds. It could be such an awesome division if not for that and some gear placement rules.
I shot Prod for the past year exclusively. Getting burned out on 10 rounds and stages that make you do dumb reloads. Like stages with arrays of 6. Or having to shoot four rounds and drop and mag. |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 12/4/2016 6:23:13 PM EDT
[#50]
For USPSA I shoot G17 or 34 for Production and for Limited I shoot an STI or SV. Have others but prefer these.
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