Which scope to buy?

Posted: 10/23/2015 3:27:49 PM EDT

So the rules say a max of 4.5x power.
What are the choices?
Variable/fixed?
Different strategies for 200/300/600?
Scope at one distance and irons at another?
Move the scope fore-aft for different positions?

Anybody know what the USAMU is playing with?

Posted: 10/23/2015 5:26:39 PM EDT

[#1]

I have a Leupold VX-R 1.25x4x20 I'm going to give a try. I'll keep with that while I save for whatever is going to come out just for service rifle. I'm sure someone is already talking to a manufacturer for a custom reticle.

Posted: 10/23/2015 7:29:35 PM EDT

[#2]

I bought the VXR 1.25-4x too. It's ok.

Posted: 10/23/2015 8:31:27 PM EDT

[#3]

I was looking last night at scope on Midway seeing how you can select the max mag and sort out by fixed and variable.

But anyways I saw a Nikon that fit the specs that had target turrets and 1/4 clicks and 65MOA of elevation so that should get you out to 600yds if no there are several 20MOA mounts for AR flattops

Posted: 10/25/2015 6:18:23 PM EDT

[#4]

You're probably going to have to spend some serious money for a scope that has the kind of perfectly reliable and repeatable tracking needed.

When you turn a pinned 1/4 MOA rear sight one click, it moves 1/4 MOA.

Low end optics don't.

Hell, even ACOGs recommend a shot or two after an adjustment before rezeroing.

Going to be a lot of scopes up for resale in the next year.

And I'm not sure why people are spending money before the rule changes are final, anyway.

Posted: 10/25/2015 7:42:12 PM EDT

[#5]

Looking hard at the Leupold AR Mod 1 w/strike illum dot reticle. I have a Nikon 1-4x M223 and I have a hard time seeing the fine BDC black reticle against a black SR target esp offhand.

Posted: 10/25/2015 8:45:22 PM EDT

[#6]

I sent a bunch of information about the changes to Sightron and hope they can deliver something with a circular aperture reticle like a Styer AUG and robust adjustments.

B

Posted: 10/27/2015 6:52:00 PM EDT

[#7]

Don't forget that the new "rules" are still in a comment period until something like Nov 6 or thereabouts, so some additional changes may be forthcoming. So let them know what you think.

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and robust adjustments.

B

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That's gonna be one of the keys to this critter, in my opinion. As somebody else already indicated, with a pinned rear sight, you put on a quarter minute and you get a quarter minute. You're going to want a scope capable of doing the same. You won't get that for a few hundred bucks.

Based on what some folks have been playing around with for a while in the local area, you're gonna want a relatively simple reticle as well. You aren't gonna want all kinds of lines and circles and dots and whatnot to clutter up your sight picture. Something like the Nightforce IHR reticle or the common cross hair, if not too thin, will be pretty close to ideal.

At 4x or 4.5x, you are going to be able to use the X-ring as an aiming point at 200 and 300, but not so much at 600. Actually a 6 o'clock hold on the target looks promising at the six.

Something with a zero-stop would be good as well.

I'm not sure the ideal scope for the rules exists yet, but based on how robust they build them, this looks fairly close:

NF NXS 1-4

I think we'll all get a pretty good piece of the puzzle when we see what the Army team shows up with at Camp Perry next year.

Posted: 10/28/2015 6:32:46 PM EDT

[#8]

I don't think a cross hair is a good choice for me. For a prone gun it might be fine, but given the low power there are better choices.

This is what I have for my match rifle.

This is what I want for my Service Rifle.

B

Posted: 10/29/2015 9:38:12 AM EDT

[#9]

That might actually work.

What scope is that, and have you looked at the targets with it at the full 200/300/600-yard distances?

Posted: 10/29/2015 8:43:00 PM EDT

[#10]

Styer AUG, but that is a 1.5X optic. The reticle will work if it's sized appropriately so that at 4X it's good for the 600 yards so you get a fair amount of white around the target.

B

Posted: 10/31/2015 3:36:03 PM EDT

[#11]

Leupold VX-R 1.25 - 4x Patrol

Posted: 10/31/2015 9:12:33 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
Styer AUG, but that is a 1.5X optic. The reticle will work if it's sized appropriately so that at 4X it's good for the 600 yards so you get a fair amount of white around the target.

B

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Exactly. Let us know when you find one, I just haven't seen any.

Posted: 11/1/2015 7:12:35 AM EDT

[#13]

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Quoted:
Exactly. Let us know when you find one, I just haven't seen any.

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I did correspond with Sightron and sent them lots of info. Please send them an e-mail with your thoughts.

For reference, I have a Sightron 8.5-32X56 that is a fantastic scope and they can make exactly what we need for Service Rifle. Their scopes have adjustments that are known to track and repeat very well, and that's exactly what we need.

B

Posted: 11/1/2015 8:27:53 PM EDT

[#14]

Would you mind sending me a PM or email with the name of the person you talked to at Sightron and their contact information? Might help cut a corner in correspondence, so to speak.

Posted: 11/3/2015 4:57:49 PM EDT

[#15]

In anticipation of the new CPM scope rule, I bought a low end Bushnell "AR" 1-4X optic about a month ago. Been shooting 600 yds for the past month with excellent results. I only wish the Bushnell AR's "Drop Zone" CH's were just a tad finer but not a big deal. I got the optic on sale from Optics Planed for $169. It will serve me well for getting me feet wet in HP competition with my piss poor eyes. I'm glad I got a variable power as I like dialing down all the magnification to 1x at 200 yds, then adding 2x at 300 yds, and full 4x at 600. Scope seems to be holding a good zero. I used Weaver 6 hole tactical 30mm mounts.

Posted: 12/17/2015 8:20:21 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
In anticipation of the new CPM scope rule, I bought a low end Bushnell "AR" 1-4X optic about a month ago. Been shooting 600 yds for the past month with excellent results. I only wish the Bushnell AR's "Drop Zone" CH's were just a tad finer but not a big deal. I got the optic on sale from Optics Planed for $169. It will serve me well for getting me feet wet in HP competition with my piss poor eyes. I'm glad I got a variable power as I like dialing down all the magnification to 1x at 200 yds, then adding 2x at 300 yds, and full 4x at 600. Scope seems to be holding a good zero. I used Weaver 6 hole tactical 30mm mounts.

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What is the reticle like & how do you manage sight alignment at 600yards?

Posted: 1/9/2016 3:26:42 PM EDT

[#17]

To OP, it seems that you have to use the same optic mounted in the same place for the entire match unless it fails.

I'm thinking red dot. Perhaps an Ultradot 6? I have doubts of the available elevation range, so would a canted base work with it the same as a magnified scope?

Posted: 1/9/2016 6:51:11 PM EDT

[#18]

Top line 15 min over post

The 2nd 12 min

Posted: 1/9/2016 9:32:17 PM EDT

[#19]

I'm leaning towards the SWFA SS 1-4x24

I have other SS scopes and the adjustments are positive and very repeatable.

SWFA SS 1-4x24

Posted: 1/11/2016 11:16:23 PM EDT

[#20]

I'm looking into this now. The rules say that if you use a scope, it has to be used at all stages.

I am looking for a fixed 4.5x SFP that can mount low enough to maintain a decent cheek weld.

Vortex and Leupold have some options, but I haven't decided on a "best" option yet. I'm interested in what everyone tries.

Posted: 2/18/2016 4:49:13 AM EDT

[#21]

Hm.

https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/PDF/WebContent/Leupold/Scope%20Copy%20-%20MK%20AR.pdf

https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/PDF/WebContent/Leupold/Scope%20Copy%20-%20VX-R.pdf

Posted: 2/20/2016 9:25:52 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
Styer AUG, but that is a 1.5X optic. The reticle will work if it's sized appropriately so that at 4X it's good for the 600 yards so you get a fair amount of white around the target.

B

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If the reticle is sized right at 200 it should be sized the same at 600 seeing how the black is sized in MOA and looks the same at all distances

Posted: 2/23/2016 12:27:40 PM EDT

[#23]

The VX-Hog worked great for me at Butner this weekend.

The size of the circle is perfect.

I could easily see the thick crosshair in the center of the circle over the aiming black.

Clicks were consistent and accurate.

Durability is really the only yet-to-be-determined element.

Posted: 2/24/2016 2:11:52 PM EDT

[#24]

I'm using a Leupold Hog with a Pig Plex. It worked great in testing except the tracking could be better. I'd make a click or two but the scope would not move until I took a shot. I'm going to twist the dials around and see if that helps break it in. Sorry I can't post a picture but I'm using a WOA service rifle upper and a Vortex scope mount. I was able to keep the shots pretty much in the X-ring with a MR-31 target at 100 yards on the bench. I'm not sure this is allowed so please remove it it violates policy but here's a thread about it with pictures: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1160261

Posted: 2/26/2016 1:02:53 AM EDT

[#25]

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Quoted:

I'm not sure this is allowed so please remove it it violates policy but here's a thread about it with pictures: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1160261

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We have to register to see them.

Posted: 2/26/2016 9:13:06 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted: We have to register to see them.

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Sorry, I didn't know that.

Posted: 2/29/2016 12:01:09 PM EDT

[#27]

So, would an ACOG not serve you well? I know it's an expensive option.

I too have been looking at scopes, and trying to decide on what to use. I had been toying with the idea of an ACOG with the A4 bullet drop reticle.

Posted: 2/29/2016 4:16:45 PM EDT

[#28]

BDC might not match up precisely with the load, and I don't think they have target type knobs, which even if they did, the adjustments might not be true since it's more of a set-and-forget scope.

If I were to get one for this discipline or in general even, the TA11 seems to suit me as it has a longer eye relief that I prefer.

ETA: welcome to the forum.

Posted: 2/29/2016 10:01:43 PM EDT

[#29]

Trust me on this as far as the ACOG. I have tried SEVERAL. Use a 308 version one. with a 20 in barrel and 77 's you will be spot on. The ACOGS are set up in meters, and yards ( and the bullets they are doped for) is different enough to make them a NOGO. however, with a 308 drop reticle, such as the TA01B, forget that those marks inside are for meters, and use them as yards, and you are within 1/2 MOA at 600 yards, and less than 1 MOA off at 800.

Another little Neat trick, the standard 223 TA31-M150 will track perfectly in meters with a 16 in 308 using 175's at about 2450 fps . ;)

Posted: 3/1/2016 11:34:29 PM EDT

[#30]

Got a chance to try out the Leupold AR Mod 1 with Strike dot at our first offhand match. Worked out pretty well , had no eye relief problems and was able to adj dot size and power to something comfortable with some trial and error. shot a 185/187/189.

Had no weights in rifle so it was around 7 lbs, If it was full weight of my reg SR the wobble would have been less and probably would have done a bit better.

Posted: 3/3/2016 9:21:37 AM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:
BDC might not match up precisely with the load, and I don't think they have target type knobs, which even if they did, the adjustments might not be true since it's more of a set-and-forget scope.

If I were to get one for this discipline or in general even, the TA11 seems to suit me as it has a longer eye relief that I prefer.

ETA: welcome to the forum.

View Quote

Thank you.

I picked up a Trijicon Accupower with the MOA reticle. I am just getting into high power, so I am not sure if this is going to work for me or not. I have seen posts about the Leupold VX-R with a modified reticle and adjusted parallax out to 200 yards. I think WOA has something similar. The Accupower has a fixed parallax at 100 yards, and Trijicon said they couldn't adjust it. So, I'll have to see how it does. If it doesn't work, I might sell it, or maybe keep it for another rifle. I put on order a carry handle with a pinned rear sight also, in case I want to go that route. I am still trying to find my place on the high power scene, and what's going to work for me.

Posted: 3/3/2016 9:44:26 AM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:
Got a chance to try out the Leupold AR Mod 1 with Strike dot at our first offhand match. Worked out pretty well , had no eye relief problems and was able to adj dot size and power to something comfortable with some trial and error. shot a 185/187/189.

Had no weights in rifle so it was around 7 lbs, If it was full weight of my reg SR the wobble would have been less and probably would have done a bit better.

View Quote

Sorry if this is off topic, but this is encouraging to hear as I am just entering into this. My dad shoots HP, and I think his rifle is about 18lbs! I get it, more weight, slower movement of the front sight, and I understand this is a purpose built rifle for matches.

I'm trying to not be the new guy and go against the grain, but I am having a hard time building a super heavy rifle. It seems weird that such heavy rifles compete in "Service Rifle", when no one would ever carry such a beast. I also like the recent inclusion of the quad rail, now that most have come to the conclusion that no one needs that much rail, that they are cumbersome, heavy, and ergonomically terrible. I suppose I could stick with a heavy CMP legal float tube, also a never issued piece of gear. Sigh, rant over.

I suppose I will come around.

Posted: 3/3/2016 12:57:53 PM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:

Sorry if this is off topic, but this is encouraging to hear as I am just entering into this. My dad shoots HP, and I think his rifle is about 18lbs! I get it, more weight, slower movement of the front sight, and I understand this is a purpose built rifle for matches.

I'm trying to not be the new guy and go against the grain, but I am having a hard time building a super heavy rifle. It seems weird that such heavy rifles compete in "Service Rifle", when no one would ever carry such a beast. I also like the recent inclusion of the quad rail, now that most have come to the conclusion that no one needs that much rail, that they are cumbersome, heavy, and ergonomically terrible. I suppose I could stick with a heavy CMP legal float tube, also a never issued piece of gear. Sigh, rant over.

I suppose I will come around.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Got a chance to try out the Leupold AR Mod 1 with Strike dot at our first offhand match. Worked out pretty well , had no eye relief problems and was able to adj dot size and power to something comfortable with some trial and error. shot a 185/187/189.

Had no weights in rifle so it was around 7 lbs, If it was full weight of my reg SR the wobble would have been less and probably would have done a bit better.

Sorry if this is off topic, but this is encouraging to hear as I am just entering into this. My dad shoots HP, and I think his rifle is about 18lbs! I get it, more weight, slower movement of the front sight, and I understand this is a purpose built rifle for matches.

I'm trying to not be the new guy and go against the grain, but I am having a hard time building a super heavy rifle. It seems weird that such heavy rifles compete in "Service Rifle", when no one would ever carry such a beast. I also like the recent inclusion of the quad rail, now that most have come to the conclusion that no one needs that much rail, that they are cumbersome, heavy, and ergonomically terrible. I suppose I could stick with a heavy CMP legal float tube, also a never issued piece of gear. Sigh, rant over.

I suppose I will come around.

My regular SR is around 13-14 lbs. The rifle I'm trying with a scope is a blaster AR I already had with a flat top with a cheap Quad tube and a GI profile 1:7 Barrel so it is pretty lite. Added a RRA stage trigger and a front sling point.

I run 2 service rifles and rotate one them to a practice rifle as the barrel starts to go, when I rebuild/rebarrel my current practice rifle it will be in A4 DCM style and I'll put the scope on that. Quad rail isn't really needed for SR shooting ( No advantage IMOP ) and they are more expensive than a RRA DCM FF tube.

Posted: 3/13/2016 2:00:55 AM EDT

[#34]

Today, I tried 72coupe's rifle with a Nikon P-223 scope at 100 yards benchrested. We both struggled a little, maintaining groups of about 1.25-1.5 MOA.

Then he suggested trying a 6 o'clock hold which looks like a German reticle. That seemed to bring groups down to 1 MOA with most of the improvement being elevation spread, probably because the reticle doesn't get lost in the black.

On another note, that P-223 tracks very well.

Posted: 3/31/2016 3:38:28 PM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

Quoted:
I don't think a cross hair is a good choice for me. For a prone gun it might be fine, but given the low power there are better choices.

This is what I have for my match rifle.

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad252/bpm990d/DSCN0288_zps207lyncv.jpg

This is what I want for my Service Rifle.

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad252/bpm990d/Aug%20A3%20Donut_zpshutocfoo.jpg

B

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I would not use that reticle simply because I like to quarter the pie with my crosshairs. That donut will only work for you if the interior circle is at least 8 to 10 MOA circumference. You need at least 2 to 4 MOA clearance around your 6 MOA NRA bullseye so your eye can center the bullseye with a circle of white around it.

Posted: 4/7/2016 8:14:19 AM EDT

[#36]

Couple of us have bought this one and are testing it. So far it is working very well.
Viper PST 1-4x24
TMCQ (MOA) Reticle | 30mm Tube
Tactical-Style Turrets
Vortex site

- Great Glass
- Great Price considering all you get
- 30mm tube
- Broken Circle (seems to work well bracketing the Bull at each yard line) with 1MOA dot in the center. very nice at 600 BTW.
- Can be used with or without Illum.
- 1/2 MOA not mils

Downside for some may be 1/2 MOA but it works fine for me with a scope.
cp

Posted: 4/9/2016 7:32:59 PM EDT

[#37]

I wish they offered the PST in 1/4's, I'd be pretty interested in one if they did.

Posted: 9/10/2016 5:27:53 PM EDT

[#38]

Has anyone tried the Bushnell 1-4x PCL?

Nevermind. Reticle is too small without German No. 4 type bars to guide to it.

Posted: 11/25/2016 11:11:43 AM EDT

[#39]

Bumping this thread, swfa.com has the SS 1x4 on sale for $299 for the weekend.

Posted: 11/25/2016 11:28:56 AM EDT

[#40]

Sightron SI is 1/4 min
My son was high expert @ Creedmoor this year and got master card on big range with it

150 bucks
I started with that and move to Viper capped model (2nd hand)