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Posted: 7/24/2015 11:15:24 AM EDT
[#1]
good
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Posted: 7/24/2015 4:45:42 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: good Aye. |
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Posted: 7/24/2015 10:03:36 PM EDT
[#3]
damn...just bought new irons for my detach. carry handle
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Posted: 7/26/2015 11:35:20 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
good Yeah, double the price of entry into the sport. I'm sure that will attract lots of new people.... |
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Posted: 7/26/2015 1:47:19 PM EDT
[#5]
I don't think it means they are eliminating iron sight divisions
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Posted: 7/26/2015 2:17:46 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think it means they are eliminating iron sight divisions There won't be "divisions". |
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Posted: 7/26/2015 7:03:18 PM EDT
[#7]
NRA is allowing an "optics" division for service rifles now and yes, they compete in a separate class. Currently anyone shooting in the "optics" division can't use those scores for classification purposes.
I genuinely doubt the CMP will allow scopes to be fired without separating them and their scores from the iron sight shooters. Actually allowing scopes on service rifles was intended to extend the shooting careers for old guys like me. Not as an advantage to be more competitive in an already competitive event. I love iron sights, I just can't see them and the target. My prescriptions will allow one or the other not both. This loss of close range focus is common starting around forty years of age and it gets worse as time goes on. I'm knocking on 60 now and I need 2.75 magnifiers to read, 1.5's to walk around. Most service rifle shooters are purists and love the simplicity of a good iron sight rifle. I use to be amazed at how well they shot until I was unable to see them well. I have shot cleans at every range except offhand. My personal best high power score was 489/500 fired in 1989. I struggle between 465 to 475 nowadays because I can't see. I fired a 482/500 two years ago on an open range (no roof over the shooting position) and I believe it was because of more light on my sights. My home club has a 200 yard reduced course with covered firing points that really make it hard for me to see well. Nobody is going to make anyone shoot a scope just because they are allowed. Everyone will continue to respect good iron sight shooters even if better scores are fired using scopes. In reality every branch of the U.S. Armed Forces are going into the field with ACOG's, Aimpoints, EoTech or Leupold scopes mounted. It would make sense to allow a separate division to compete with what's being used. |
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Posted: 7/26/2015 10:03:59 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NRA is allowing an "optics" division for service rifles now and yes, they compete in a separate class. Currently anyone shooting in the "optics" division can't use those scores for classification purposes. I genuinely doubt the CMP will allow scopes to be fired without separating them and their scores from the iron sight shooters. If they classify it as a Service Rifle, it's a Service Rifle. CMP doesn't do separate divisions. How would that work, anyway? An optics and an irons Distinguished badge? |
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Posted: 7/27/2015 12:51:01 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If they classify it as a Service Rifle, it's a Service Rifle. CMP doesn't do separate divisions. How would that work, anyway? An optics and an irons Distinguished badge? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
NRA is allowing an "optics" division for service rifles now and yes, they compete in a separate class. Currently anyone shooting in the "optics" division can't use those scores for classification purposes. I genuinely doubt the CMP will allow scopes to be fired without separating them and their scores from the iron sight shooters. If they classify it as a Service Rifle, it's a Service Rifle. CMP doesn't do separate divisions. How would that work, anyway? An optics and an irons Distinguished badge? That's going to be up to the CMP. CMP has a long history of iron sight only competition. IF they allow scopes they will almost surely be under a separate awards category. I think Individuals shooting irons will allows be top dogs. |
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Posted: 7/27/2015 3:11:04 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NRA is allowing an "optics" division for service rifles now and yes, they compete in a separate class. Currently anyone shooting in the "optics" division can't use those scores for classification purposes. I genuinely doubt the CMP will allow scopes to be fired without separating them and their scores from the iron sight shooters. Actually allowing scopes on service rifles was intended to extend the shooting careers for old guys like me. Not as an advantage to be more competitive in an already competitive event. I love iron sights, I just can't see them and the target. My prescriptions will allow one or the other not both. This loss of close range focus is common starting around forty years of age and it gets worse as time goes on. I'm knocking on 60 now and I need 2.75 magnifiers to read, 1.5's to walk around. Most service rifle shooters are purists and love the simplicity of a good iron sight rifle. I use to be amazed at how well they shot until I was unable to see them well. I have shot cleans at every range except offhand. My personal best high power score was 489/500 fired in 1989. I struggle between 465 to 475 nowadays because I can't see. I fired a 482/500 two years ago on an open range (no roof over the shooting position) and I believe it was because of more light on my sights. My home club has a 200 yard reduced course with covered firing points that really make it hard for me to see well. Nobody is going to make anyone shoot a scope just because they are allowed. Everyone will continue to respect good iron sight shooters even if better scores are fired using scopes. In reality every branch of the U.S. Armed Forces are going into the field with ACOG's, Aimpoints, EoTech or Leupold scopes mounted. It would make sense to allow a separate division to compete with what's being used. My understanding was there would not be a seperate division. But again, I could be wrong. I was not able to be there for Rifle this year, but I was there for Pistol Week when this was being talked about. cp |
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Posted: 7/27/2015 6:50:50 PM EDT
[#11]
No divisions. The initiative was driven by the CMP to increase participation. Next year, you will be able to use a 1x-4x scope for EIC, President's 100, and any other CMP matches. It remains to be seen what the NRA rules say.
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Posted: 7/27/2015 7:23:43 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No divisions. The initiative was driven by the CMP to increase participation. Next year, you will be able to use a 1x-4x scope for EIC, President's 100, and any other CMP matches. It remains to be seen what the NRA rules say. If anyone would know this guy would. I'm not sure I like the idea if they aren't under a separate awards category. |
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Posted: 7/27/2015 9:08:58 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If anyone would know this guy would. I'm not sure I like the idea if they aren't under a separate awards category. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No divisions. The initiative was driven by the CMP to increase participation. Next year, you will be able to use a 1x-4x scope for EIC, President's 100, and any other CMP matches. It remains to be seen what the NRA rules say. If anyone would know this guy would. I'm not sure I like the idea if they aren't under a separate awards category. And you aren't alone in that. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 10:04:00 PM EDT
[#14]
I'm not terribly familiar with the tacticool stuff in use today- are there any scopes with quick adjust windage and elev. knobs similar to the sights we use that stand up to constant use?
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Posted: 7/29/2015 10:05:52 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, double the price of entry into the sport. I'm sure that will attract lots of new people.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
good Yeah, double the price of entry into the sport. I'm sure that will attract lots of new people.... It broadens the scope (  ) to include older shooters with bad eyes.
Like David Tubb. But that probably doesn't have anything to do with it... |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 10:13:17 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It broadens the scope ( ) to include older shooters with bad eyes.
Like David Tubb. But that probably doesn't have anything to do with it... I doubt Tubb has shot SR in decades. |
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Posted: 7/30/2015 4:24:35 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I doubt Tubb has shot SR in decades. He legged out in the 70s. |
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Posted: 7/30/2015 4:30:16 AM EDT
[#18]
As someone who can barely hit the 300m target w/ Uncle's M4 & Aimpoint, this sounds interesting. Will red dots & 3x or 4x magnifiers be allowed?
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Posted: 8/5/2015 9:03:18 PM EDT
[#19]
Interesting. I personally know my standing stage will not improve with a scope and it won't help my wind calls. However if the reticle was some type of doughnut that gave a similar sight picture to a match rifle that would improve my scores.
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Posted: 8/27/2015 10:09:04 AM EDT
[#20]
1-4X!
Make it 1-6... I love my Razor HD! |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 10:40:04 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
damn...just bought new irons for my detach. carry handle Me too! I had all the parts picked out for my CMP build. Time to put on the breaks and wait. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 10:42:07 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1-4X! Make it 1-6... I love my Razor HD! At 25 ounces that scope would make it tough to keep the rifle within the proposed 11.5lb weight limit. I hope when the actual rules are written that they reevaluate this weight limit issue. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 10:50:57 AM EDT
[#23]
I built up my rifle for Tactical Rifle in HP so its 7lbs soaking wet before the razor goes on top.
It looks like these two categories are divergent right now in relation to the CMP optic rules vs the any sight tactical rifle HP rules. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 11:54:02 AM EDT
[#24]
It's hard to say because neither governing body has put anything in writing yet. Historically the NRA rules on Service Rifle simply default to the CMP rule but I'm not sure what to expect for 2016. It's going to be interesting for sure.
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Posted: 8/27/2015 11:29:18 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At 25 ounces that scope would make it tough to keep the rifle within the proposed 11.5lb weight limit. I hope when the actual rules are written that they reevaluate this weight limit issue. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 1-4X! Make it 1-6... I love my Razor HD! At 25 ounces that scope would make it tough to keep the rifle within the proposed 11.5lb weight limit. I hope when the actual rules are written that they reevaluate this weight limit issue. Where'd you hear about a weight limit? |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 9:25:27 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where'd you hear about a weight limit? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
1-4X! Make it 1-6... I love my Razor HD! At 25 ounces that scope would make it tough to keep the rifle within the proposed 11.5lb weight limit. I hope when the actual rules are written that they reevaluate this weight limit issue. Where'd you hear about a weight limit? It's on the table as part of the new "Service Rifle" rules package within the CMP. Again it's a PROPOSED rule, not a final rule so anything can happen between now and when the rules committee actually publishes the info. I would however suggest contacting the CMP if you have any input, suggestions or concerns about changes that are coming. |
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Posted: 9/7/2015 4:56:31 PM EDT
[#27]
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6134473
Service Rifle: 1) The only alibis that will be permitted are range alibis (no fault of the shooter). 2) Optics will be allowed on rifles that weigh 11.5 lbs., total with optic installed. Optics will only be allowed on the AR platform. The optic maximum magnification will be 4.5 power. There will not be a separate category for optical sighted ARs. 3) No weight limit on iron sighted, non-optical sighted ARs, i.e. you can shoot the current configured service rifle just as it is with no weight restrictions. 4) Only .223/5.56 NATO will be allowed for ARs, .308/7.62 NATO for M14 platforms, .308/7.62 NATO or .30/06 for M1 Garands. 5) M-4 type stocks will be allowed on the AR platforms. 1. Good. Even the Games do that. 2. Seems to negate some of the perceived advantage in prone by making offhand more difficult. 3. I think lead shouldn't be allowed anyways, but okay. 4. AR10 wasn't standard issue, so okay. 5. I think if they do that, it should only be on 14.5"/16" carbines which ought to be on the proposal list. Still need to specify which "M4" stocks. |
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Posted: 9/7/2015 7:14:52 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6134473 1. Good. Even the Games do that. 2. Seems to negate some of the perceived advantage in prone by making offhand more difficult. 3. I think lead shouldn't be allowed anyways, but okay. 4. AR10 wasn't standard issue, so okay. 5. I think if they do that, it should only be on 14.5"/16" carbines which ought to be on the proposal list. Still need to specify which "M4" stocks. Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6134473 Service Rifle:
1) The only alibis that will be permitted are range alibis (no fault of the shooter). 2) Optics will be allowed on rifles that weigh 11.5 lbs., total with optic installed. Optics will only be allowed on the AR platform. The optic maximum magnification will be 4.5 power. There will not be a separate category for optical sighted ARs. 3) No weight limit on iron sighted, non-optical sighted ARs, i.e. you can shoot the current configured service rifle just as it is with no weight restrictions. 4) Only .223/5.56 NATO will be allowed for ARs, .308/7.62 NATO for M14 platforms, .308/7.62 NATO or .30/06 for M1 Garands. 5) M-4 type stocks will be allowed on the AR platforms. 1. Good. Even the Games do that. 2. Seems to negate some of the perceived advantage in prone by making offhand more difficult. 3. I think lead shouldn't be allowed anyways, but okay. 4. AR10 wasn't standard issue, so okay. 5. I think if they do that, it should only be on 14.5"/16" carbines which ought to be on the proposal list. Still need to specify which "M4" stocks. You forgot to note that these are the "proposed changes". It's not a done deal yet. |
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Posted: 10/16/2015 10:51:19 AM EDT
[#29]
Does anyone know when they will make a decision?
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Posted: 10/17/2015 12:03:57 PM EDT
[#30]
Interesting. I have a colt 3x carry handle scope and an acog to compete with.
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Posted: 10/20/2015 12:29:56 PM EDT
[#31]
I recently built myself a match service rifle. Wanting to try high power next year, problem is I am extremely nearsighted. Shooting irons at 200 yds no problem, 300 is getting tough , at 600 yds forget it, I can see the black ok but I can't verify my lane # board so I'm very concerned about cross shooting. I swapped out the irons for a Bushnell AR 1-4x optic and the optic allows me to shoot 600 confidently. So obviously I'm hoping the optic rule gets put into action at my club. We should have a ruling any time now.
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Posted: 10/20/2015 2:35:43 PM EDT
[#32]
ost
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Posted: 10/20/2015 2:45:55 PM EDT
[#33]
I legged out in pistol this year. I hope to finish rifle in my next few matches. I don't like all these changes. The idea is to get more people involved, but I haven't sen that happen yet. Maybe it will though.
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Posted: 10/20/2015 2:52:52 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I legged out in pistol this year. I hope to finish rifle in my next few matches. I don't like all these changes. The idea is to get more people involved, but I haven't sen that happen yet. Maybe it will though. |
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Posted: 10/20/2015 6:47:43 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Congrats on the pistol!!! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I legged out in pistol this year. I hope to finish rifle in my next few matches. I don't like all these changes. The idea is to get more people involved, but I haven't sen that happen yet. Maybe it will though. Thank you. Like other really good goals, it was impossible, improbable, unlikely, possible, probable, eventual, and then inevitable. |
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Posted: 10/21/2015 2:44:57 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 5. I think if they do that, it should only be on 14.5"/16" carbines which ought to be on the proposal list. Still need to specify which "M4" stocks. Why limit collapsible stocks to short bbl carbines? M16A2s are being issued w/ collapsible stocks, & full length rail systems. |
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Posted: 10/22/2015 7:03:05 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why limit collapsible stocks to short bbl carbines? M16A2s are being issued w/ collapsible stocks, & full length rail systems. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 5. I think if they do that, it should only be on 14.5"/16" carbines which ought to be on the proposal list. Still need to specify which "M4" stocks. Why limit collapsible stocks to short bbl carbines? M16A2s are being issued w/ collapsible stocks, & full length rail systems. Enough to be considered "standard issue"? From my view, A2/A4 - fixed stock, and M4 - collapsible. Don't matter now though. |
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Posted: 10/24/2015 3:33:46 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 10/25/2015 6:10:52 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Like other really good goals, it was impossible, improbable, unlikely, possible, probable, eventual, and then inevitable. I like it. |
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Posted: 10/25/2015 10:28:36 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Enough to be considered "standard issue"? From my view, A2/A4 - fixed stock, and M4 - collapsible. Don't matter now though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: 5. I think if they do that, it should only be on 14.5"/16" carbines which ought to be on the proposal list. Still need to specify which "M4" stocks. Why limit collapsible stocks to short bbl carbines? M16A2s are being issued w/ collapsible stocks, & full length rail systems. Enough to be considered "standard issue"? From my view, A2/A4 - fixed stock, and M4 - collapsible. Don't matter now though. Tallil, late 2011 - the camera's date was wrong: 
An engineer's M16A2, modified by their armorer w/ a standard kit. |
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Posted: 11/25/2015 3:21:50 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
CMP RULE CHANGES 2016 http://thecmp.org/2016-cmp-rifle-and-pistol-rule-changes/ There ya go. Mike B A new posting on the CMP website is saying the weight restriction is gone. All service rifles have no weight restrictions, optic or not. |
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Posted: 11/25/2015 7:02:47 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A new posting on the CMP website is saying the weight restriction is gone. All service rifles have no weight restrictions, optic or not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
CMP RULE CHANGES 2016 http://thecmp.org/2016-cmp-rifle-and-pistol-rule-changes/ There ya go. Mike B A new posting on the CMP website is saying the weight restriction is gone. All service rifles have no weight restrictions, optic or not. Linky? I can't seem to find it. Thanks, B |
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Posted: 11/25/2015 7:26:19 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Linky? I can't seem to find it. Thanks, B Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: CMP RULE CHANGES 2016 http://thecmp.org/2016-cmp-rifle-and-pistol-rule-changes/ There ya go. Mike B A new posting on the CMP website is saying the weight restriction is gone. All service rifles have no weight restrictions, optic or not. Linky? I can't seem to find it. Thanks, B |
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