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Posted: 10/15/2008 3:38:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 8:50:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lenny] [#1]
Keep a journal and record all your observations and thoughts right after the match or training session. What worked, what didn't, what needs further experimenting.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:30:05 AM EDT
[#2]
When shooting offhand, do not pull the trigger as your wobble has  just gone past the center of the bull and is moving away from the center.  Instead pull the trigger as your wobble is approaching the center.  If you get a dwell while on center that is the time to pull the trigger, but do so before the dwell ends.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 4:25:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dmince] [#3]
Off-hand tip:

Toes right angle to target...when you bring your front sight on target make sure your hips are still square with your toes.  If not, push that left side of your hip front (right-handers).  This puts a twist above your hips and tightens up your ligaments for less wobble area.  I started doing this before I had a Hardback and I still do it.

This had to be one of the best score improving tips I ever learned.

(Learned this from a Jim Owens tape when I was starting HP.)

mince
Link Posted: 11/1/2008 1:42:15 PM EDT
[#4]
Ammo

A big batch of ammo that is "good enough" beats "perfect" ammo that needs to be loaded just before every match and practice. What's a big batch?  At least 500-1000 rounds.  What's good enough?  I'd say for a beginner, sub-1.5 MOA for 10 shots, with sub-MOA being a tad better.  That, and it has to produce acceptable accuracy under a wide range of temperatures.  Best (educated) guess is 40 to 100 degrees F is the temperature range under which most highpower matches are held.  Go outside of that range, and shooter comfort is greatly reduced.  

 Your loading component choices for achieving acceptable accuracy can vary.

Bullets:
 Match bullets from the major manufacturers are a safe choice - but they tend to be more expensive than the majority of non-match bullets.  For short range shooting (sub-300 yards), some hunting bullets (such as Sierra's 60 grain softpoint) can deliver acceptable performance.  For the most part, stay away from 55 and 62 grain FMJ projectiles.  Most don't deliver acceptable accuracy.

Powder:
 A big reason why so many loads for highpower shooting use a small selection of powders is those powders reliably deliver accuracy across the "typical" temperature range.  Shooting "shotgun patterns" or "vaporizing" bullets due to changes in temperature is funny - as long as it isn't you that it's happening to.


Now here's the REAL secret:  Once you achieve acceptable accuracy, STOP LOAD DEVELOPMENT UNTIL YOU KNOW AMMO IS HOLDING YOU BACK.  Load that big batch of acceptable ammo, and focus instead on working on improving your position, sight picture, trigger control, and reading the wind.  Odds are, you'll hold a classification of Expert or higher before ammo accuracy really impedes further progress.

One final note:  Don't forget, a single match score of 200-0x beats a 199-19x every day of the week.  However, chances are good that 19x's will make your aggregate score better.  Shoot for x's - but just to be safe, try to keep 'em all in the 10 ring.
Link Posted: 11/29/2008 5:11:52 PM EDT
[#5]
Get a big, canvas painter's drop cloth (say 5' x 8'). Put this down before your shooting mat. When the dropcloth gets dirty throw it in the washer. Keeps the mat clean a lot longer. And can be used to cover things up during rain showers.
Link Posted: 1/10/2009 12:13:41 AM EDT
[#6]
Don't not go to a match because you don't have all the equipment.  Go to the match and before you know it you will have a choice of equipment to borrow.  I have found HP guys & gals very generous and helpful with their extra equipment that they brought just in case someone needed it.
Link Posted: 1/10/2009 4:55:24 AM EDT
[#7]
don't focus on the last shot but the next
the last is over and focusing on it may only make the next worse
Link Posted: 1/29/2009 11:57:10 PM EDT
[#8]
I started doing hipower shoots this past summer with my AR-15. I use ammo that I buy from just about anywhere, I am going to mostly pay attention to the really good shooters and hopefully become better as I go. I can usually  get sharpshooter, i got an occasional marksman, but know that I can do better. My AR has a 1 in 9 twist barrel, and i paid a bit extra for it (my AR is a DPMS kit gun). My front sight was about twice as thick as anyone on the line, and one of the guys noticed right away - not only did one of them give me a new front sight pin, but another guy had the tool and loaned it to me. Yeah, I'd say the guys at these events are VERY cool. They always make me feel wanted, always a good time.
I know that as I get the full complement of equipment and start getting to a 223 load that is better (VERY nice post above about using GOOD loads, btw. I think that is great advice). I know, for now, it won't make much difference what loads I use I am learning so I am the weak link. I'm sure I'll get to that point soon, but for now I'm just getting used to be on the line, watching the other shooters as we do the different positions.... and having a blast the entire time!

My tip? Keep at it!
Link Posted: 2/11/2009 4:00:33 PM EDT
[#9]
Just Shoot
You are not competing against anyone but yourself. Just have fun and shoot.

Steve
Link Posted: 2/26/2009 12:39:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: LM151] [#10]
Here is a trick for your sights,,,,we blacken the front sight with one of the cool little super smokers these days but before I bought one
I learned a trick from the AMU guys.  Just light up a MRE spoon and blacken your sight with the smoke.
BE careful here because you are about to napalm what ever is below you.

A long piece of masking tape folded over several times works just as well

another trick I use in the middle of a match is I keep 10 rounds on a stripper clips with the mag adapter in the front pocket of my stool.
When I need to reload mags in the rapids I pull 2 rounds off the stripper and load them in my first mag then I stick the stripper/adapter
on the second mag and load the remaining 8 rounds.

Its a whole lot faster than single loading and leaves time for other things.
Link Posted: 2/26/2009 6:24:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: M1A4ME] [#11]
I would say going to an Appleseed would really help new shooters.

Two days of (no pressure for scores except what you put on yourself) training on the six steps of firing a shot, loop (and hasty) sling set up and use, standing, sitting and prone positions as well as the 2 & 8 magazine changes, etc.

Its a good start for a new shooter.  Even though it's mostly (depends on the range though) 25 meter shooting the targets are sized to look the same size as targets at 100, 200, 300 and 400 yds.  You get the "look" of sighting in and firing on longer range targets but you don't have the effects of wind or bullet drop - but thats not basic rifle marksmanship anyway.  What you learn at Appleseed will get you small groups and once you have smaller groups you can learn the wind doping and sight adjustments for range at the range.

Good luck and have fun.

edited to add - a nice trigger is a beautiful thing.  If you can afford a trigger job you will love the difference it makes.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 10:11:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Make sure your gas lock is tight on your M-1 before shooting.  Don't ask me how I know this one.
Link Posted: 5/19/2009 10:51:46 AM EDT
[#13]
Originally Posted By yagotme:
Make sure your gas lock is tight on your M-1 before shooting.  Don't ask me how I know this one.


I had this, and my rear sight on my M1 would occasionally slide down on recoil... I'd add 20 clicks, and shoot way high one round, then the next round would be down where the previous ones were... Sucked to get done with a rapid fire string and see a 5" group right at the bottom of the paper...

What was said above about going without gear is right! When I first started, (or rather, when my dad and I started shooting the same relay and I couldn't just use his equiptment any more), I was using a rug for a mat, and no glove... By the end of the relay, guys saw that I was a little light on equiptment and let me borrow a spare mat, shooting glove, and elbow pads... Probably the nicest group of people that I've been around...

Also, if you're tight on money and come across one of the OD green button-up military shooting coats, wear a sweatshirt under it to make it tighter and cut down on extra involuntary muscle movement... Doesn't work as well as a "real" shooting coat, but works OK none the less...

Mike
Link Posted: 5/19/2009 3:44:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Odiedog1] [#14]
It took a few years for me to accept this one and my shooting improved a lot once I did (and still is):

No matter what level you are shooting at, you should be open to new ideas and coaching.  Unless you are consistently cleaning a stage, making a small change may help you break through a personal plateau.  Sometimes the tried and true for you stops working for whatever reason.  I have always struggled with offhand, shooting in the low to mid 180's.  This year I changed my support hand position and really lossened up my position and I am shooting high 180's to low 190's.  It defies the "hold hard" mentality but it is working for me. Ask other shooters to watch you for a few shots and see if they notice anything.  I don't avocate this approach to equipment (trying to buy points) but sometimes equipment can hold you back.  I love my Les Tam sling but going to a web sling improved my rapid scores.  Just make your changes one at a time and give them some time.  You cannot overestimate the value of dry firing

Once I made Master, I recognized how much I had to re-learn to get better.  I try now to go back periodically  and go through a lot of beginner training materials (like the AMU videos, books and tips on the CMP web site.)  This isn't a complicated sport: you align the sights, hold them on the target exactly the same way every time and pull the trigger without moving the sights.  Add a little wind reading skill and you can probably shooting pretty good scores.  Not complicated but certainly not easy.

Steve
Link Posted: 9/24/2009 8:02:27 AM EDT
[#15]

Try not to think about your scorecard. Focus on your routine.

Link Posted: 12/21/2009 4:10:27 AM EDT
[#16]
Make sure your rifle and ammo are in the car before you leave.
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 1:39:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 4:21:12 PM EDT
[#18]
Originally Posted By BlindRat:
Make sure your rifle and ammo are in the car before you leave.


recent?
Link Posted: 2/18/2010 10:12:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Make sure you have the right GUN for the match. Won't go into details.
Link Posted: 5/25/2010 11:15:06 PM EDT
[#20]
Take a .308 case, stuff it with cotton then saturate cotton with diesel fuel leave a Small bit poking out of
case neck. Light in fire and wa la !!! you have a sight blackener. Crimp a 9mm case mouth slightly place over
308 case neck for a lid.

Its not as dark as carbide but it works for me and most people (shooters) have the stuff laying around.
Link Posted: 5/26/2010 11:19:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: rjexcellent] [#21]
Originally Posted By LM151:

another trick I use in the middle of a match is I keep 10 rounds on a stripper clips with the mag adapter in the front pocket of my stool.
When I need to reload mags in the rapids I pull 2 rounds off the stripper and load them in my first mag then I stick the stripper/adapter
on the second mag and load the remaining 8 rounds.

Its a whole lot faster than single loading and leaves time for other things.



I'd offer an amendment to this good advice.  If you have them, bring enough mags pre-loaded so that you never have to load mags during the match.  There are more important things to worry about during your prep time.  I only have shot 50-round matches so for me this means five magazines:  

1 (preferably with a single-shot follower) for standing and prone
4 for rapids (2 x 2 rounds and 2 x 8 rounds).

Other advice would be to not worry about others and how they view your performance.  Aim to improve yourself.  The only exception to people not caring about your shooting is if you shoot on their target.  Everyone is always cordial about this, but this is such an avoidable goof.  Periodically verify that you're on the right target.
Link Posted: 6/21/2010 9:12:18 PM EDT
[#22]
Effort is the enemy.  It's got to be effortless.
Link Posted: 8/13/2010 2:02:26 PM EDT
[#23]
SEE the front sight.

The target must always be a fuzzy gray blob.

SEE the front sight.

STAY WITH the front sight until the rifle settles in recoil.

On slow-fire, you should be notice the spent casing flying from the gun.

Call each shot - a mental call is fine.

Then you can relax.


Don't let the wind beat you at 600 while you are doodling in that data book.
Souvenirs don't win matches.

Keep the bullets moving if you expect good target service.

Link Posted: 8/18/2010 9:41:21 PM EDT
[#24]
Get:

Item ID: 770DVD
Description:  HP Service Rifle Competition INSTRUCTIONAL DVD/SET OF 3


You'll have to create an account if you don't already have one for the CMP E-store.


When you get to Disc 3 pay particularly close attention to what Sgt Hatcher says from timecode 1:27 to 1:32
Link Posted: 10/10/2010 1:38:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: slashsplat] [#25]
The comments so far have covered much great stuff.

First thing that helped me was to shoot for groups.  When I was really new, I would never look at the target through the scope until AT LEAST 5 shots went downrange.  If you cannot shoot a consistent group, you will not score.  So focus on groups.  DO NOT check each round and try to adjust for where it missed!  It missed because your group is huge and you are only looking at a slice of it - one round.  Once you can group 5 or 10 shots, then you know when you have to adjust sights.  And as Jim Owens says, ONLY adjust sights 1/2 the amount that the group center is off.

Also, do not get weird when you see how much your Point of Impact changes with the same sights based on your position.  Even though your mind says that the sight picture is identical from offhand to sitting to prone, IT AIN'T.  So, more group work.  Shoot groups at all positions to see how YOU aim differently though you swear you have the same sight picture.

As a classic thread said (The trouble with...) - a group is not 3 shots.  A statistically meaningful group is ten shots.  I never shoot less than 5 at a time - when practicing.

And even if you are not checking each shot, CALL the shot, at least mentally.  High left or right, or low left or right is adequate.  If possible, have a spotter note the shot position and also your call!

Ammo makes a HUGE difference, but ONLY when you are good enough to not screw it up.  So use cheap ammo, and lots of it, at first.  Since groups are critical, get knee-deep in brass with the cheap stuff.  The improvement will come with good ammo.  Shoot the heaviest bullet that your rifle likes.  For instance, I use 68 or 69 grain in a 1:9 20" for 100 yards.  55gr are much less accurate, even the same brand and quality.  FOR MY RIFLE.  You will need to experiment with groups!

Dry fire.  Dry fire.  Dry fire.  Dry fire.  Dry fire.  Dry fire.  Dry fire.  Dry fire.  Dry fire.  Dry fire.  Dry fire.  Dry fire.  Dry fire.  Dry fire.  Dry fire.  Dry fire.  Dry fire.  Dry fire.  Dry fire.  Dry fire.  Dry fire.  Dry fire.  Dry fire.  Dry fire.  And then do it some more.  All positions.  All dressed up.  With NO AMMO IN THE ROOM.  NO AMMO IN THE ROOM, at all.


And safety.  Gee.  Please point the rifles in a safe direction AT ALL TIMES.
Use an Empty Chamber Indicator.  Always.
Keep your freaking finger off the freaking trigger.
Do not load a round or magazine UNTIL ready to fire.
ONLY fire at a known target with a known background.
Do not release the bolt and pull the trigger before you put your rifle in the case.
Leave the bolt locked open and the ECI in while casing the rifle.

Link Posted: 11/11/2010 9:09:34 PM EDT
[#26]
Get an air rifle and practice indoors
Link Posted: 5/18/2011 2:14:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ajroyer] [#27]
I see that this is an old thread, but as a new shooter I wanted to update with my recent experiences.  I just got back from my second year of high-power and feel like I have a better understanding of some of the advice on this site.

First, the basics are all the same.  Learn each position and practice it.  BUT, there are subtle things that you can do to improve your shooting.  

PREPARATION and GENERAL SHOOTING


  • Always blacken the front post.  (Never the rear aperture.  I saw a guy do that and wonder why he couldn't see through it)

  • Load your magazines ahead of time, and mark them.  If you have a malfunction with the mag feeding, you then know exactly which one caused the problem and can take it out of service before the next event.

  • Mark your sling for the sitting/prone length.  After offhand, you will be able to set it quickly and use your time on better things (like natural point of aim)

  • HYDRATE and BREATH!!!  This cannot be emphasized enough.  Drinking lots of water and gaterade will help your focus, vision, concentration, heart rate, fatigue, etc.  Breathing keeps that oxygen level up whcih affects the same things as hydrating.

  • Use your ballcap to block your non-shooting eye

  • When lining up the sight picture, pay attention to reference marks on the front sight.  You can mark with a pencil on it or use the base and wings.  There can be a lot of variation in your shot of you line the top of the post up in the center of the rear aperture, but if your eye is off just a bit, rifle canted or tilted, etc.  your shot will be off.  It may take you a while to realize why it is off, especially if you think you are getting what looks like a good sight picture.


OFFHAND

  • Make sure that your feet are shoulder width apart.  I was slightly farther apart, felt stable, but was all over the place.  I moved in just a bit and tightened the group right up.

  • Relax into the jacket. It feels like your mush, but the jacket provides the support and relaxing your muscles takes the pulse and shake out of the equation.  

  • Even though you are relaxing into the jacket, keep your support elbow tight into your ribs.  The more you tuck it in, the more stable your shot.

  • Tighten the sling up enough so that it doesn't hang below the barrel.  Every little movement that you make will be exaggerated by the sling.



SITTING


  • Make sure that you undo the bottom straps of your jacket.  Additionally, I have been told to loosen my belt.  Having your belt the same tighteness to hold your pants up causes your belly to "balloon" over it when sitting.  This adds another point of instability to your group.

  • Make sure that your elbows are in front of your knees.  

  • Also, have your leg that is closest to the target in front of the leg that is away from it.  i.e. a right hand shooter has the left leg in front of the right leg when crossed.
    When you squeeze the trigger, let it back out to the reset point.



PRONE Rapid Fire

  • REMEMBER adjust your sight elevation!

  • With prone, practice with one leg up or both legs flat.  Pick your preference and stick with it.  I have tried both, and currently am more comfortable with both legs flat and straight.  On that note, if you shoot this way you should remember to always keep your heels on the ground.  If may not seem like much, but if you drop into position and keep your feet balanced on your toes your whole body will move.

  • Keep your support arm under/in-line with the rifle.  I used to shoot with a lot of pressure on the sling and moving my arm forward and in-line has helped with groups and comfort.



PRONE Slow Fire


  • This is where you master the position that you use in rapid fire.  Pay attention to sling tension, and body position.

  • At 600 yards, take a second or two to watch the wind.  You can feel it on your face, watch the flags, read the mirage, etc.  Make mental notes on what your wind settings are and what conditions they are for.  Someone said to stop messing with the book to record your shot if the wind is cooperating.  I might agree for one or two rounds, but that book is the only thing that will tell you what you did later.  It shouldn't matter if the wind is blowing, gusting, or gone.  If you are paying attention to it and shooting with the correct dope on the gun, your round will perform the same.



In the PITS


    Good pit service is valuable to the shooter.  If you want it, you have to give it.  Some things that may help:
  • Bring a length of rope to the pits.  You can tie it to the bottom of the carriage and use it to pull down and up.  This will save your back and speed up your pit service times.

  • This is your chance to hydrate, refuel, and hit the john.  Use it wisely.

Link Posted: 9/29/2011 7:20:30 AM EDT
[#28]
Originally Posted By digger658:
Make sure you have the right GUN for the match. Won't go into details.



Haha, you've done it too.  Show up for a match with a truck gun that looks just like your service rifle at 5am.  Just like it, other than the lack of a huge stainless barrel, and it's 7 pounds lighter.

Link Posted: 9/29/2011 7:25:15 AM EDT
[#29]
Originally Posted By Thomas_Jefferson:
Effort is the enemy.  It's got to be effortless.


And in seriousness, I would go with this.

When you are in position, if something does not feel right, it's because something is not right.  Break, rebuild your position.

It's your prep time.  Prep time should have just as much of a routine as hot line time. Use it well. Practice it.



Link Posted: 1/12/2012 10:25:32 PM EDT
[#30]
Know what the scoring discs mean before you go to your first event....


After my first shot the disc was on the right side of the target so I though It was a spotting mark and meant I was shooting to the right, so next shot I adjust left and the disc is at the bottom... I continued chasing that effin disc around the target until I was scoring the next guy and had to have someone explain it to me as I'm trying to record scores.

My suggestion: first timers work the pits before shooting.
Link Posted: 1/12/2012 10:59:13 PM EDT
[#31]
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 12:01:15 AM EDT
[#32]
Mark your rapid fire magazines #2 and #8.  Stack #2 on top of #8 so you do not mistakenly reach for and load #8 first.  

If your club hosts 600 yd prone, Palma, or F-Clas matches join in and shoot your service rifle with them.  Firing three strings of twenty shots plus sighters in one day is the best 600 yd practice you can get.  Palma shooters are some of the best wind readers.  Watch, ask questions, and learn from them.
Link Posted: 6/3/2012 1:14:09 PM EDT
[#33]
Spend more time shooting and practicing than agonizing over the minutiae of handloads and buying expensive equipment. I got my Expert classification on a reduced course of fire using a carpet mat, a camping stool, a home-made cuff sling, a $60 WalMart spotting scope and no shooting coat while shooting a 60 year old milsurp rifle and cast bullet handloads. Proof to me that HOW you shoot is infinitely more important than WHAT you shoot.

 GG
Link Posted: 2/3/2013 2:00:19 PM EDT
[#34]
Alway make sure you are paying attention to your natural point of aim. If you don't you will be pulling shots you otherwise wouldn't.
Link Posted: 4/11/2013 9:16:35 PM EDT
[#35]
You are not shooting to just put lead down range.  You are shooting to find something within yourself.  A capability, a commitment, a focus.  That's why we shoot highpower, don't show up to a practice, a match, or anything else thinking "ok how am I going to shoot?"  You are going to shoot beautifully, show up to the match and begin to focus on how you are going to THINK.  When you can remove yourself from your present thoughts, that is the beginning of clearing away the cobwebs and your shooting will improve as your mental peace does.

Do everything the same way once you figure out what works, do it a lot.  Make the action secondary to just being there.  Wake up in the present moment being at a stage of fire knowing everything is ready (magazines, sight dope, position) because it always is, and because you couldn't have gotten there without doing those things.  Make them totally second nature.  Then just clean the target.
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 4:47:38 AM EDT
[#36]
Off the top of my head and in no particular order...





Take note of what the better shooters do - where they place the stock in their shoulder, how their support hand is placed, if their legs are bent or locked, etc. - and try one variable at your next practice. If it seems to work, roll with it for a bit and/or if it doesn't, look at another variable to try.



Some things from other disciplines (ex. Bullseye pistol) can cross over into High Power.



Some changes may not be comfortable, but if the sights stay on target more consistently, and the discomfort is ignorable through a string of fire, use them.



Video yourself and confirm what you do correctly. Sometimes, you can feel a mistake or bad habit, but sometimes you need to see it.



I tend to do well when I have a song stuck in my head. I suppose that's when I truly on autopilot.





I had a couple odd inspirations for offhand:

- Watch a human statue. From what I can tell, you don't try to be absolutely still, but move slow and smooth enough that the eye can't perceive movement. Kinda like when you watch a dead character on TV to see if they breathe or twitch.



- Holding a coffee mug while riding on a bumpy road. If the mug is suspended in the same spot and the body holding it is allowed to move, there's no spill. Or if you ride a bike standing on the pedals with your legs bent, the bike and legs act like a car's suspension so you have a smoother ride. Especially when the wind is blowing, you might see me "fall over" when I break a shot. That's because I allowed my body to "absorb" the force and the rifle stayed on target.
Link Posted: 3/15/2015 7:10:31 PM EDT
[#37]

Get something to move all your gear around. Set it up with everything you need. Roll it into your living room, start your timer for your 3 minute prep and get ready. Do it enough times that you don't have to rush. Know where to find everything.

Take your sunglasses off at least 20 minutes before you shoot. It will take your eyes that long to really adjust to the sun if it's bright.

Don't give up in a match no matter how bad your last shot might have been. I was in a LEG match and I thought I was the only one getting killed by the wind at 600. Gave up for a few shots. Ended up first leather.. with the exact score (including X's) as the guy ahead of me.

Link Posted: 3/19/2015 11:52:47 AM EDT
[#38]
Off hand natural point of aim adjustment.

Your toes have 1/2 minute adjustment in them!!!!!!! Well almost.

When you are setting up your natural point of aim try this "fine" adjustment.   Try it right now, go get something you can hold and point like  rifle.  Got something? Good.

Now stand and hold what ever gun thingy you got like you would a rifle. Relax and let the gun thingy fall into a natural point of aim.

Now, to show an exaggerated adjustment pick your right toes up keeping the heel on the ground. Move the toes to the left about "two" inches and then relax again. You will see that the gun thingy moved way to the left to a new point of aim. This is caused because your body wants to keep a natural alignment of your feet and pelvis.

So here is how you fine tune it.  When on the line establish your natural point of aim. Once you are comfortable mount your gun and get the sight picture and alignment set up. Now close you eyes and hold them closed and move your body slightly then relax again. Open your eyes. Are your sights aligned on the target windage wise? No? if your sights are even on the side of the black you can adjust for that. Move your toes in the direction you want the sights to move and then relax.  A little practice and you will able to adjust your position as small as 1/2 minute in windage.

My off hand scores went up after I discovered this trick. It might just help you as well.

Oh and one more thing, when shooting off hand recheck your natural point of aim after the 3rd or 4th shot. You might find it has changed. It's you body relaxing into position over time.


EBR666
Link Posted: 4/4/2015 7:49:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HighpowerRifleBrony] [#39]
As a fellow from Brooklyn, NY told me a few years ago, "Don't worry about it. Just shoot."
This is my Standing target from this morning. By shot number 4, I thought about it. "OMG, what if I clean it?"








Number 9 was a 9.







Call your shot, confirm it, shoot the next one. I think that's when having a song in your head helps.
Edit 8/10:



Shot number 8.



Link Posted: 9/3/2015 8:32:51 AM EDT
[#40]
Attend "Small Arms Firing School" at Camp Perry. You will learn a lot from the US Army Marksmanship Unit (USAMU).
They supply the rifle,ammo, instruction, and throw a training manual and t-shirt at you.
Cost is $45 for a 2 day course. Standing,sitting, and prone at 200 yards.
Best training value ever!

http://thecmp.org/competitions/cmp-national-matches/small-arms-firing-schools/
Link Posted: 11/9/2016 9:35:25 AM EDT
[#41]
I'm noticing that about a 5-10* cant CCW in Offhand helps. AR15, M1 Garand, I think even with the Ruger American Rimfire.





Hopefully video will help me break it down to find out why.
Link Posted: 2/28/2017 7:08:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: HighpowerRifleBrony] [#42]
I try to follow the strategy of identifying the high and low wind conditions, figuring the average, staying inside of a buildup and outside of a let off, and waiting for the ideal condition to come back.





Of course, at an NRA match, you have two sighters at your disposal. Your Zero's elevation should be pretty close, and you should be able to scratch the 10-ring at short range on a reduced target, so the only info you don't know is how the wind will affect the bullet. Shoot one sighter during the low and one during the high (I think David Tubb suggested this in The Rifle Shooter). If the average wind condition is close to one extreme, base your sight adjustment on that respective sighter's impact. If the wind is a steady cycle, adjust from the middle of the two sighters. Shoot during the middle condition.

At 300yds, compare the wind while you're loading the first mag. If it's close, shoot, drop the mag and try to spot the shots through the scope. If you see them real quick, good, adjust if necessary, otherwise trust that they went in the center. Compare the wind while loading the second mag. Flags and feel. If different, make an adjustment. Plot the shots in your data book and make note of any adjustments during the string.


Granted the wind played nice on Sunday, but this 100yd junior picked up on that strategy quick. After I stopped recording, there was a long lull, and she waited... wanted to wait more, but knew it was time to go and clicked the knob, but the wind then started building back up, so she took the dope off and kept banging the middle until she threw an 8 on her last shot.

Timestamps are in the description:
Link Posted: 2/28/2017 7:17:14 AM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Odiedog1:
It took a few years for me to accept this one and my shooting improved a lot once I did (and still is):

No matter what level you are shooting at, you should be open to new ideas and coaching.  Unless you are consistently cleaning a stage, making a small change may help you break through a personal plateau.  Sometimes the tried and true for you stops working for whatever reason.  I have always struggled with offhand, shooting in the low to mid 180's.  This year I changed my support hand position and really lossened up my position and I am shooting high 180's to low 190's.  It defies the "hold hard" mentality but it is working for me. Ask other shooters to watch you for a few shots and see if they notice anything.  I don't avocate this approach to equipment (trying to buy points) but sometimes equipment can hold you back.  I love my Les Tam sling but going to a web sling improved my rapid scores.  Just make your changes one at a time and give them some time.  You cannot overestimate the value of dry firing

Once I made Master, I recognized how much I had to re-learn to get better.  I try now to go back periodically  and go through a lot of beginner training materials (like the AMU videos, books and tips on the CMP web site.)  This isn't a complicated sport: you align the sights, hold them on the target exactly the same way every time and pull the trigger without moving the sights.  Add a little wind reading skill and you can probably shooting pretty good scores.  Not complicated but certainly not easy.

Steve
View Quote

I'm going through it again as I knock on High Master.
Link Posted: 5/18/2018 12:05:14 AM EDT
[#44]
Bullseye requires great trigger control. The timing is different, but breaking a shot without disturbing the sight picture is valuble.

NWTFS Bullseye Pistol League, 8-May-18
Link Posted: 5/24/2018 6:36:03 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BlindRat:
Make sure your rifle and ammo are in the car before you leave.
View Quote
partially did that one day for practice,

drove a bit over an hour to the range,

had my rifle in it's case,  scope, stool, mat, etc etc etc,

even had the mags,

left the ammo I had loaded on the bench in the shop

fortunately I had another few guns with me I wanted to shoot and ammo for them, (plinkers etc and different calibers) so the trip was not a total waste
Link Posted: 6/5/2019 9:59:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HighpowerRifleBrony] [#46]
If you're 5'10"+, reach for the swivel in Prone and tuck the support elbow right until the magazine touches the forearm or the pressure is off the vein/artery in that joint. Some may have to "invert" the arm, as advocated by Ken Roxburgh.

The stock will probably need to be lowered in the shoulder to match. I put the heel (top) of it just below the bone in the "pocket".

Otherwise with a taller/squarer position, a quadrail should help keep the hand from slipping and needing to be reset.

@Jiva



Timestamps:
0:00 Prior results
1:25 May video
2:48 Standing
9:31 Standing result
9:59 Sitting Rapid
11:48 Sitting result
12:22 Prone Rapid
14:32 Prone Rapid result
15:36 Prone Slow 1
21:21 Prone Slow 1 result
22:34 Prone Slow 2
29:59 Prone Slow 2 results
30:33 Aggregate
30:39 Position screenshots
31:22 Group evaluation

This young man has probably the best ratio of Points Per Rounds Fired during HP career. Not much more than 20 matches in 2 years with as long as a 6 month break between practice. He's plateaued, and I don't get to watch him shoot often, so I was curious if there was any obvious improvements to be made.

Standing, we could probably find a positional tweak, but I think most improvement is just timing. Sitting has been his best. He's been able to beat me there for a while. Certainly capable of high X cleans.

Prone Rapid has settled in really well. Prone Slow has been the slowest evolving. More time to think and more distractions from actually shooting. Combined with a position I don't prefer, I found him moving his support hand back to tighten the sling.

I did the same thing as an Expert. At my first big match, I had 5 coaches pushing me down and stretching me to the sling swivel. Once I had time to practice that and acclimate, Master class and cleans followed.
Link Posted: 6/9/2019 5:19:01 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:
If you're 5'10"+, reach for the swivel in Prone and tuck the support elbow right until the magazine touches the forearm or the pressure is off the vein/artery in that joint. Some may have to "invert" the arm, as advocated by Ken Roxburgh.

Otherwise with a taller/squarer position, a quadrail should help keep the hand from slipping and needing to be reset.

@Jiva
View Quote
Right on! Thanks much for this
Link Posted: 2/9/2024 4:33:50 PM EDT
[#48]
A couple of decades back when I was younger and still shooting both
CMP and high power Silhouette matches, I've learned the following
things worked for me.

#1:  It's typically taught to partially let out your last breath intake before
Pulling the trigger. Personally I've found by taking in a full deep breath
and holding it for the trigger pull stiffined up the torso, markedly reducing
the proverbial wobble; especially during off hand stage of fire.

#2: I found during off hand shooting that by pulling the butt stock tightly
into the shoulder with BOTH hands AND pressing the butt stock down tightly
into the should pocket with your face cheek SIMULTANEOUSLY made it much
more easy to pull the trigger without disturbing the sight alignment. Plus
It reduces the wabbles.

#3: Depending on where your front sling swivel is dictates whether you'll
use the Olympic roll-over prone with your spine pointing straight at the
target, or use the military flat prone with your spine pointing 45° to the
right of the target. If you have an adjustable match rifle hand stop with
sling swivel and an under hand guard T-rail, you'll adjust it close to the
receiver as you can to assume the Olympic roll-over prone. If you have a
standard military rifle with the front sling swivel at the far end of the
forend, then you'll need to use the military flat prone to utilize the front
sling swivel as a hand stop. You'll find it's irrelevant if you have a smooth
stock or textured to shoot well.

Link Posted: 2/9/2024 4:36:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Oldhogleg] [#49]
#4: it makes a big difference when you're slinged-up in the prone position
using the military flat prone position to make sure the support arm elbow
is not just directly under the rifle, but even just a little bit to the right of the
rifle. This causes the rifle to settle into an equallibrium of forces to where
you can fully relax your muscles.

#5: When slinging up, your muscles has to be fully relaxed. Not 90% relaxed,
not 99%, but 100% relaxed, or you'll always be plegued with annoying
POI inconsistencies.
Link Posted: 2/9/2024 5:03:21 PM EDT
[#50]
1.  The sling needs to be tight.  Not saying  painful, but  to the point that the sling keeps you in position even though every muscle is relaxed.  If you are strain your body and arm  to tension that sling even the tiniest bit or keep the front sight on the bull, it's too loose and your groups will grow the longer you do it in a stage.  (fatigue)

2. Learn to compensate  for mirage. There will always be SOME and it WILL effect you.  Get a good quality spotting scope and check mirage every chance you get. It can change on you in the middle of a string, especially in the slow fire prone.

3, Everyone has a "best position." For me, it's sitting.  That's where I always pick up the majority of my "X" hits. Look at what you are doing and determine if you can move some of those positives over to your other positions.
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