Hey ya'll, I have a Banshee plate carrier and an HSGI war belt. They each have 3 double-decker (rifle and pistol) tacos.

I'm taking my first carbine class and was wondering, should I bring both or just the carrier or belt? It's a 2-day course focusing on carbine basics with a side of handgun.

Thanks!

EDIT: I forgot to add that I'm going to Range Time in Indiana and if anyone has taken a class there, feel free to chime in!

What's your prior experience, and what is your intended use of the rifle?








 

If you are like most here (Joe Civilian, looking to get some training), I would suggest going with the belt set-up.

Strong side holster, two kydex rifle mag carriers, and a double pistol mag carrier are all you need. Trust me on this one.

If you want, throw on a hydration carrier and call it a day.


Your focus for this course should be on skill acquisition, not rockin' high speed gear.

You will not be under prepared. Electronic ear-pro is an added bonus (helps you hear the instructor better).
Show up with an open mind and a willingness to learn. Everything else will sort itself out.

Also, make sure your weapons are ready:

Rifle...

Gas key is properly tight and staked

Bolt group is generously lubed (bring lube to the class...lube the bolt group again at lunch)

If possible, have the weapon zeroed (50 or 100 yrd...your preference)

Optic (if so equipped) has fresh battery (batteries)

Sling


Pistol...

Properly lubed



One last thing....

99% of the issues you will see on the firing line will revolve around students failing to properly seat the magazine. Do it properly and you'll avoid most of those
"that guy" moments.

I've competed in a few competitions but no formal carbine training. Thanks a lot for the advice!

I really appreciate the advice. I took note of the things you mentioned. It looks like I'll be using the HSGI war belt for this class.

Thanks again, both of you, for the advice!

I agree with topgunpilot20.

There's no harm in taking both. The advantage of doing it this way you
can see what works and doesn't work, make adjustments to both or decide
one over the other. I have used both during courses, belt one day and
PC/vest the other.



Being new to combat shooting courses. I would
start with the belt as your primary platform and the PC as your secondary and make adjustments to the belt as the first day goes
on.  Talk to the instructors at the beginning of the second day and tell them what you're thinking and ask for their input on whether to start the second day with PC as your primary and make adjustments as the day goes on.



What ever you decide, keep your gear simple. Instructors love to rib "civilian commandos"



What's great about going to these courses is that you learn from others whether it be from their mistakes or success.'



When its all over, post you after action report on the course. We would love to hear your experience!

Wear what you would fight in outdoors if employing a rifle for defense.

If you're in your pajamas during a home invasion and it comes to employing the rifle in them than drawing a mag probably isn't something you'll do.  A lot of the positions that are taught in carbine courses not involving shoot houses involve positions most likely to be used outdoors.  What would you wear if you were outdoors in a SHTF situation with your rifle? From what would you be drawing your magazines from for reloads?

If you've got the Banshee you must plan on using it in conjunction with a rifle or you probably wouldn't have purchased it.  Part of these courses are to learn what works for you and yeah part of it shaking out your gear to make sure it is practical for what you'd do in a life and death gunfight outdoors.  Buying plate carriers and armor doesn't do you any good if you're not learning how to use them in conjunction with your firearms.  

The other side of it will be situations where you wouldn't have the Banshee on.  It's easier to adapt to having no gear on than it is to adapt to having it on in my opinion.  Shooting with a plate carrier feels different and going into different shooting positions with pouches and plates changes the game up.  Your instructors should be knowledgeable about running plate carriers and pouches and how they come into play with what you'll be doing.  That's more knowledge you can soak up.  They might get on you for running too much on your carrier or where your pouches are located, but if you don't have a HUGE fragile ego it's a good learning opportunity. If you're going to the class to be a "cool kid" then wear whatever man.

Thanks a bunch for the advice. I did indeed buy the plate carrier for a SHTF type event so I'll definitely bring it to at least try it out and run some drills with it. I only have 3 AR magazines on the carrier and most likely will keep it that way.

I know about the gear picture threads but what do YOU recommend for a basic load out for my belt and carrier? You seem very knowledgeable

Yeah I definitely want to keep everything as simple as possible.

I'll post an AAR when I get back the 23rd of June

3 AR mag pouches on your PC is good, keeping it as flat as possible for going prone.

2 short AR pouches on your weak side and one on your strong side (if you're not going to attach handgun pouches) You can attach a dump pouch either to your pants belt of attach it to your HSGI belt on the weak side back pocket area.

One other item to consider is the HSGI blowout pouch. I never go to the range without one attached to my belt or PC with a tear off platform. I attach it to my strong side where I can get to it by grabbing or pulling and rotating the belt around my waist to my weak side for access.



If you're going to wear both PC and HSGI belt. Make sure you adjust your PC to ride high on your chest, so that you have easy access to your whatever you decide to mount onto your belt.



 

Get the basics set-up right and if you feel you absolutely positively can't live without something add it where it will not hinder you or leave it for your 3rd line gear.  Guys get too into trying to make their first and second line be the end-all be all of their fighting kit.  Nope, you have a third line for the overwhelming majority of those little things you think you need.

Plate carrier is ammo for your long arm, comms, and water all carried as tightly to your person as possible and as little of it as possible to meet immediate and short-term needs.  Keep your pistol side slick and support side as slick as possible.  The more things you have hanging on you the harder it is to go into unconventional shooting positions or work out of vehicles.  Your back panel of the carrier is modular, but the same principles apply of carrying as little as you can get away with, but what you have on there depends on what you need.  You will probably need a larger hydration carrier in the summer in Arizona, but might not need such a big one during the winter. You might want to carry a gas mask or NVGs on the back panel. Back panel is shit that I don't need to access quickly if I need to get to it.  

Battle belt is set-up with a ready mag for grabbing when you're prone and hugging the dirt, which will obstruct your front mags.  Battle belt should be set-up as closely as your EDC carry in terms of pistol mag positions and pistol, because that's what you know and you always fall back on your habits under stress.  IFAK goes on the small of my back and is easy to get to with both hands if I only have one or if I find myself having to belly crawl to render assistance to someone else.  As a civie I don't count on everyone having a complete IFAK I know how to access and use so yeah I would go use my own.

In the end you're going to go out there with what you think is the absolute perfect set-up and you're going to realize it's not.  You'll look at how others set their stuff up and take all of our advice and some of it you'll probably incorporate, but in the end it's really the school of hard knocks that will educate you on kit. I'm always finding some way to better carry my kit and a lot of experiments end up failures.  You'll end up spending money on shit you'll wish later you hadn't purchased, but that's part of it.  The most important thing is that you learn your lessons out on the range during practice.  God doesn't have sympathy for the unprepared.  

God bless ya brother and enjoy your carbine course. Sure, it's all life saving things, but if you can't enjoy yourself just a little you're doing it wrong.

Fight like you train, train like you fight. How would you respond to crazy shit happening in a real-world scenario? That's your answer.

Practice with your kit getting into and exiting a vehicle.  You should be able to wear a seat belt still and get out of the vehicle with your 2nd line and 1st line gear on. If you can't do that than you need to re-evaluate what you're wearing.  

Belt. Doesn't even mean it has to be a battle belt, just pouches on a rigger's/Instructor's type belt.

Is the question "What is needed to successfully complete the course?" or is it really "Will I look like a tacti-fool if I show up wearing armor?"

I have the same question in mind. During the drought of 2013, when guns and ammo were hard to find, I completed my belt and PC (HSGI and Banshee).  This summer I'm taking a 'basic' carbine class.  I'm going to shrug off the idea that I'll be judged and wear the stuff I have.  Seems like I'll learn a lot more that way.

Yup, you can go be cool somewhere for free or at least where there is alcohol and ladies involved.  Get your money's worth.

Awesome advice. I picked up a HSGI Blowout pouch and love it. High quality and holds a good amount of med supplies. For a tear off style pouch, which one do you recommend?

This may be a stupid question, but can you break down what 1st, 2nd, and 3rd line gear is?

And I agree with you 100% on enjoying myself at the class. I'm so excited for the class, I wish I had signed up for an earlier one

Thanks for your help!

That's pretty much my exact thinking now. I was a little hesitant but honestly I could care less; I want to get the most out of this class that I can.

 

Off Topic
Wow, considering your location says Arizona, you're travelling quite a distance.  Travis Haley is having/ had an open day at his new facility in Scottsdale. I know it cost more with him, but given your airline, car rental, tent (I read no Double Tree near Range Time)...I'm not good in math to come up with total price.

On Topic
I was going to Range Time, but, had an emergency.  Will try for later time this year.  My set up is same (Banshee and a midlength BCM) i
I'm going to bring my Banshee, belt with 2 ITW Fastmag (just in case the Banshee gets too heavy at the end, OR BEGINNING of the class.
Purpose, to learn to go dynamic with my rifle, secondary is if all gear is necessary/ experience to run heavy or slick.


If I go with Banshee : 3 magazines (option to use Haley D3---if not, kangaroo pouch it on the Banshee/ Level IV plates (front only for this class)/ ArmorBAK for hydration/

Belt: two ITW Fastmag + IFAK

I'm prior service: USMC, 4x/yr shooting +more depending on the itch/ammo...with that, if this is your first rodeo, go belt and concentrate on rifle class.  less gear to go "missing."

bring some In-N-Out burger sauces for everyone.

Hey it's been a while since I've been over to this thread but thanks for breaking it down for me. I leave for the class in a few days and can't wait!

The reason I'm going with Range Time for my first class is because I had a some airline and hotel vouchers and it actually ended up costing less than driving down the street to train with Travis.

With that being said, I am signed up for his science handgun course and a carbine course as well!