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Army_of_One
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Posted: 8/17/2012 8:32:19 PM

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I realize that center mass is your best bet to slow an attack, but I was curious if anyone actually condones starting by aiming for the head? I searched, but didn't see anything on this. Thanks.
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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:30:34 PM
Where I come from the head is referred to as the upper center of mass.

And it is the only shot in some circumstances and should be trained to.

So I guess the answer to you question is sometimes.
Mach

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Posted: 8/17/2012 9:31:22 PM
The vest drill. (Two shots center mass and the guys still standing wearing a vest head shot to stop)
Center mass is easier to hit under stress.
Head shot not so easy.
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Posted: 8/20/2012 8:57:32 AM
I've always advocated aiming for the center of visible mass. Therefore, if all that the target presents is the head, I'll aim for the center of that.

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clharr
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Posted: 8/20/2012 1:39:52 PM
Originally Posted By Payback99:
I've always advocated aiming for the center of visible mass. Therefore, if all that the target presents is the head, I'll aim for the center of that.



Yes.

I've been to several schools in which we had drills that were brain shots only. I've always practiced this on my own as well.
just becasue you can shoot well does not mean you will fight well when the time comes. Get trained!

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Posted: 8/28/2012 3:35:04 PM
You are responsible for every round you fire. Just saying.
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Posted: 10/2/2012 11:50:57 AM
Glad I saw this post. Remember that the skull is very hard and many types of rounds have been deflected by it. We shoot for the an area the height of the upper lip to below the eyebrow so the bullet passes through the center of the head in that area depending which way the head is turned. As far as starting with the head...dependant on the situation. Movement, ability, weapon used and lots more go into making that decision. A simple yes or no answer is wrong.
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Posted: 10/2/2012 6:32:02 PM
[Last Edit: 10/3/2012 3:39:34 PM by xmikex]
Aim for the Heart or the Brain.

If the person is behind cover / concealment, shoot whatever you can see. You'll probably get to see more of them when you hit a leg / arm.

The movie Way Of The Gun has a decent illustration of this: Del Toro sees guy's foot - shoots it - sees more guy. Shoots Heart.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AuIAgRMjrw&feature=related


ETA:


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Posted: 10/2/2012 6:49:50 PM
[Last Edit: 10/2/2012 6:52:37 PM by live-free-or-die]
Originally Posted By Army_of_One:
I realize that center mass is your best bet to slow an attack, but I was curious if anyone actually condones starting by aiming for the head? I searched, but didn't see anything on this. Thanks.


In general, no. I have never heard of a school, trainer, unit, that trains to shoot for the head first (as standard practice). I am sure there is someone somewhere that does.

You may want to shoot for the head first, given very specific circumstances, such as: someone wearing visible body armor, head is the only visible target, etc.

In most shootings you are not going to know if you are hitting your target until you get some kind of reaction. Guys who train 2 to the body and one to the head have rarely done FoF training. FoF will show you pretty quickly that while it may work out 2-3 out of 10 times, where those other rounds are going can be a problem.

I teach a non-standard response, by which I mean, the students never fire the exact same number of COM shot before transitioning to the head.

Even wearing soft armor, most people are going to slow down after 3-5 COM shots; if they don't, assume a zombie infection and shoot for the head
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Posted: 10/2/2012 7:19:53 PM
Originally Posted By Payback99:
I've always advocated aiming for the center of visible mass. Therefore, if all that the target presents is the head, I'll aim for the center of that.



Yep
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Posted: 10/3/2012 3:36:13 AM
- Center of mass on a human torso is around the lower sternum / upper gut region on a human torso, or ala the "X" ring on the outdated B27 type target. Of course this is not the optimal shot placement to induce massive blood loss type of trauma, or Central Nervous System (CNS) type of disruption high enough on the human torso to be the most effective.

- Upper center of mass is widely accepted and defined as the region where the clavicle bones connect to the upper sternum, all the way down to the lower sternum area. This is about an 8" circular region that would encompass the major arteries, CNS and blood bearing organs such as heart and lungs. Upper center of mass is not commonly referenced as a head shot.

- When presented with a full torso, upper center of mass is often the most reliable target area as the head can move much more easily than the upper center of mass. Upper center of mass is often more achievable as a target area with the most effective results.

- Head shots are more or less desirable under given circumstances. No doubt head shots are the target of choice under certain given situations.

- "Quartering" is a term that is often referenced as the point of aim for the target that is presented or offered. When we "quarter" a target, we take whatever target that is offered or presented, and pick the center of that target as our aim point. This gives us the most "wiggle room" for our aim and potential deviation of impact while still making a good hit.
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Posted: 10/3/2012 9:37:00 PM
After a non-standard response to shooting center mass if they need more I'm transitioning to the Pelvic Girdle unless all I can see is the head.
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Posted: 10/4/2012 8:36:38 PM
[Last Edit: 10/4/2012 8:37:32 PM by PATRIOT-IA]
If a person is behind concealment shoot through it.
There is not as much "cover" as one would think.
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Posted: 10/11/2012 4:41:41 PM
I try to use the term "high center chest," which is about as unambiguous and descriptive as I've seen.

"Center of mass" is troublesome for me. As previous posted mentioned, the actual center of mass of a typical human torso is lower than most believe. If you're talking about the center of mass of the entire human body, it's typically below the navel.

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Posted: 10/11/2012 5:00:56 PM
[Last Edit: 10/11/2012 5:05:02 PM by GunnyG]

Originally Posted By rhino_:
I try to use the term "high center chest," which is about as unambiguous and descriptive as I've seen.

"Center of mass" is troublesome for me. As previous posted mentioned, the actual center of mass of a typical human torso is lower than most believe. If you're talking about the center of mass of the entire human body, it's typically below the navel.


You are confusing a person's "center of mass" with "center of gravity". Disregard the legs, and think more of a silhouette target like an E2 or a Marine Corps B mod, which is 40" tall and 20" wide.



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Posted: 10/11/2012 5:22:21 PM
[Last Edit: 10/11/2012 5:23:04 PM by GunnyG]

Originally Posted By Army_of_One:
I realize that center mass is your best bet to slow an attack, but I was curious if anyone actually condones starting by aiming for the head? I searched, but didn't see anything on this. Thanks.

Try that at 500 yards. Just the body of a B Modified target is less than half a standard AR or M-16's front sight blade's width.

If you are splitting the target's vertical axis (the analog of a human body's trunk), you have a greater margin of error.


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