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Posted: 8/19/2016 10:47:10 AM EDT
[#1]
And another question...In Westchester, Rockefeller State Park...Those trails go in and OUT of the state park, and through land not controlled by the park...so what? Are you supposed to hike a trail, and somehow know the second the trail enters the park?
Take a look: http://nysparks.com/parks/attachments/RockefellerTrailMap.pdf Green is state park land, dark brown is Rockefeller Trust land I believe... |
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Posted: 8/19/2016 6:39:54 PM EDT
[#2]
Don't take this as legal advice, but Fuck this State!
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Posted: 8/19/2016 9:13:16 PM EDT
[#3]
Just listen to your heart.
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Posted: 8/19/2016 9:18:53 PM EDT
[#4]
I've never been able to make sense of it. Tag for info I guess.
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Posted: 8/19/2016 9:29:52 PM EDT
[#5]
Well shit. I always though NY parks were off limits. Guess not. I got this from the "other" site...so the econ / parks law even says it doesn't supersede the penal law.
ENV - Environmental Conservation Article 71 - ENFORCEMENT Title 9 - (71-0901 - 71-0927) ENFORCEMENT OF ARTICLES 11 AND 13--THE FISH AND WILDLIFE LAW 71-0905 - Penal Law, Criminal Procedure Law and other laws not affected. 1. No provision or language of the Fish and Wildlife Law [FN1] shall be construed as amending, repealing, superseding or limiting any provision of the Penal Law, Criminal Procedure Law or other law, except to the extent that such provision or language is expressly stated to be applicable notwithstanding such law, or notwithstanding any other law. Except to such extent, any provisions of the Fish and Wildlife Law inconsistent with the provisions of any other law shall be deemed to be effective for the purposes of the Fish and Wildlife Law only. |
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Posted: 8/19/2016 10:10:03 PM EDT
[#6]
Always have, always will. Fuck'em
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Posted: 8/20/2016 8:24:53 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't take this as legal advice, but Fuck this State! This. |
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Posted: 8/20/2016 8:25:21 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Always have, always will. Fuck'em And this. |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 1:24:01 AM EDT
[#9]
9 nycrr 375.1 (p) seems to prohibit the possession of firearms in state parks
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Posted: 8/22/2016 9:47:19 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well shit. I always though NY parks were off limits. Guess not. I got this from the "other" site...so the econ / parks law even says it doesn't supersede the penal law. ENV - Environmental Conservation Article 71 - ENFORCEMENT Title 9 - (71-0901 - 71-0927) ENFORCEMENT OF ARTICLES 11 AND 13--THE FISH AND WILDLIFE LAW 71-0905 - Penal Law, Criminal Procedure Law and other laws not affected. 1. No provision or language of the Fish and Wildlife Law [FN1] shall be construed as amending, repealing, superseding or limiting any provision of the Penal Law, Criminal Procedure Law or other law, except to the extent that such provision or language is expressly stated to be applicable notwithstanding such law, or notwithstanding any other law. Except to such extent, any provisions of the Fish and Wildlife Law inconsistent with the provisions of any other law shall be deemed to be effective for the purposes of the Fish and Wildlife Law only. YOU WENT TO THE WRONG BOOK. You're confusing Environmental Conservation Law with the Office of Parks and Rec, Historic Preservation law. OPRHP applies in state parks. ECL applies in state campgrounds. Yep, NYS has two different agencies that run camping and park type places. For the most part NYS Parks (OPRHP) has "state parks" and NYS DEC has "campgrounds". IIRC inside the blue line and Catskill Park (and probably Allegheny) are DEC campgrounds, everywhere else are NYS Parks. Yeah, I know it doesn't make a lot of sense unless you were a Governor looking to make a new cabinet position for a pal way back when and split the one agency into two. (at least that's what I've been told) Back on point, if you get caught up in some situation, you'll still take the ride on the charge the penguin cited. Just being a realist. |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 9:51:09 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: YOU WENT TO THE WRONG BOOK. You're confusing Environmental Conservation Law with the Office of Parks and Rec, Historic Preservation law. OPRHP applies in state parks. ECL applies in state campgrounds. Yep, NYS has two different agencies that run camping and park type places. For the most part NYS Parks (OPRHP) has "state parks" and NYS DEC has "campgrounds". IIRC inside the blue line and Catskill Park (and probably Allegheny) are DEC campgrounds, everywhere else are NYS Parks. Yeah, I know it doesn't make a lot of sense unless you were a Governor looking to make a new cabinet position for a pal way back when and split the one agency into two. (at least that's what I've been told) Back on point, if you get caught up in some situation, you'll still take the ride on the charge the penguin cited. Just being a realist. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Well shit. I always though NY parks were off limits. Guess not. I got this from the "other" site...so the econ / parks law even says it doesn't supersede the penal law. ENV - Environmental Conservation Article 71 - ENFORCEMENT Title 9 - (71-0901 - 71-0927) ENFORCEMENT OF ARTICLES 11 AND 13--THE FISH AND WILDLIFE LAW 71-0905 - Penal Law, Criminal Procedure Law and other laws not affected. 1. No provision or language of the Fish and Wildlife Law [FN1] shall be construed as amending, repealing, superseding or limiting any provision of the Penal Law, Criminal Procedure Law or other law, except to the extent that such provision or language is expressly stated to be applicable notwithstanding such law, or notwithstanding any other law. Except to such extent, any provisions of the Fish and Wildlife Law inconsistent with the provisions of any other law shall be deemed to be effective for the purposes of the Fish and Wildlife Law only. YOU WENT TO THE WRONG BOOK. You're confusing Environmental Conservation Law with the Office of Parks and Rec, Historic Preservation law. OPRHP applies in state parks. ECL applies in state campgrounds. Yep, NYS has two different agencies that run camping and park type places. For the most part NYS Parks (OPRHP) has "state parks" and NYS DEC has "campgrounds". IIRC inside the blue line and Catskill Park (and probably Allegheny) are DEC campgrounds, everywhere else are NYS Parks. Yeah, I know it doesn't make a lot of sense unless you were a Governor looking to make a new cabinet position for a pal way back when and split the one agency into two. (at least that's what I've been told) Back on point, if you get caught up in some situation, you'll still take the ride on the charge the penguin cited. Just being a realist. |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 11:45:25 PM EDT
[#12]
* Here is the law or code or whatever they want to call it linked below. *
https://govt.westlaw.com/nycrr/Document/I4f59cce4cd1711dda432a117e6e0f345?viewType=FullText&originationContext=documenttoc&transitionType=CategoryPageItem&contextData=(sc.Default) 9 CRR-NY 375.1 NY-CRR OFFICIAL COMPILATION OF CODES, RULES AND REGULATIONS OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK TITLE 9. EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENT SUBTITLE I. OFFICE OF PARKS, RECREATION AND HISTORIC PRESERVATION CHAPTER I. PARKS SUBCHAPTER A. STATEWIDE RULES PART 375. PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES (p) Firearms and weapons. (1) Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraphs (2) and (3) of this subdivision, no person, other than a member of a Federal, State or municipal law enforcement agency, shall introduce or possess, either upon the person or within a vehicle, or use any firearm, bow, crossbow, or any instrument or weapon the propelling force of which is a spring, rubber or air or any ammunition or propellant therefor, except pursuant to a permit issued according to Part 372 of this Title. (2) Any person employed by a private security firm which has contracted with the office or with a lessee or licensee of the office for services on property under the jurisdiction, custody and control of the office shall be permitted, with the approval of the office, to carry a firearm supplied by his or her employer in the course of his or her employment on such property, provided that such person is licensed pursuant to section 400.00 of the Penal Law and meets such minimum qualifications as may be established by the commissioner. In addition, any firm providing security services on lands under the jurisdiction of the office shall provide public liability insurance, naming the State as an insured party, in such amounts as the commissioner shall require. (3) On certain facilities of the office, to be determined by the commissioner, a person may possess an unloaded weapon for the purpose of accessing adjacent properties for lawful hunting purposes. The list of facilities shall be published on the office’s public website. * Here are the Penalties linked below. * http://codes.findlaw.com/ny/parks-recreation-and-historic-preservation-law/par-sect-27-11.html New York Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation Law § 27.11 Offenses; ?Penalties 1. Unless otherwise specifically provided, any person who violates any provision of this chapter, or of any law, ordinance, rule, regulation or order adopted pursuant thereto, shall be guilty of a (a) traffic infraction, if such provision, law, ordinance, rule, regulation or order is one which regulates traffic as specified in section one hundred fifty-five of the vehicle and traffic law, but does not relate to snowmobiles. (b) violation, for any other offense. 2. A traffic infraction shall be punishable as provided in subdivision (b) of section one thousand eight hundred of the vehicle and traffic law in the same manner as if the offense were a violation of the vehicle and traffic law. A violation shall be punishable as provided in the penal law. Upon conviction of a violation of any provision of article twenty-five of this chapter a court may also require the convicted person, as a condition of the sentence in addition to any other penalty, to successfully complete a snowmobile safety course approved by the commissioner. * So it is punishable by a Violation. A Violation is punishable via the Penal Law. Here is the punishment taken from the NY Penal Law below. * http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article80.htm#p80.05 S 80.05 Fines for misdemeanors and violation. 4. Violation. A sentence to pay a fine for a violation shall be a sentence to pay an amount, fixed by the court, not exceeding two hundred fifty dollars. In the case of a violation defined outside this chapter, if the amount of the fine is expressly specified in the law or ordinance that defines the offense, the amount of the fine shall be fixed in accordance with that law or ordinance. * So if you get caught you can only be issued a fine no greater than $250.00. * |
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Posted: 8/23/2016 8:40:48 AM EDT
[#13]
Oh, so your saying we arent supposed to.. hmm, oh well.
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Posted: 8/23/2016 9:46:06 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
what the heck would they charge him with? Some nycrr violation or would they try to charge him under the penal law? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well shit. I always though NY parks were off limits. Guess not. I got this from the "other" site...so the econ / parks law even says it doesn't supersede the penal law. ENV - Environmental Conservation Article 71 - ENFORCEMENT Title 9 - (71-0901 - 71-0927) ENFORCEMENT OF ARTICLES 11 AND 13--THE FISH AND WILDLIFE LAW 71-0905 - Penal Law, Criminal Procedure Law and other laws not affected. 1. No provision or language of the Fish and Wildlife Law [FN1] shall be construed as amending, repealing, superseding or limiting any provision of the Penal Law, Criminal Procedure Law or other law, except to the extent that such provision or language is expressly stated to be applicable notwithstanding such law, or notwithstanding any other law. Except to such extent, any provisions of the Fish and Wildlife Law inconsistent with the provisions of any other law shall be deemed to be effective for the purposes of the Fish and Wildlife Law only. YOU WENT TO THE WRONG BOOK. You're confusing Environmental Conservation Law with the Office of Parks and Rec, Historic Preservation law. OPRHP applies in state parks. ECL applies in state campgrounds. Yep, NYS has two different agencies that run camping and park type places. For the most part NYS Parks (OPRHP) has "state parks" and NYS DEC has "campgrounds". IIRC inside the blue line and Catskill Park (and probably Allegheny) are DEC campgrounds, everywhere else are NYS Parks. Yeah, I know it doesn't make a lot of sense unless you were a Governor looking to make a new cabinet position for a pal way back when and split the one agency into two. (at least that's what I've been told) Back on point, if you get caught up in some situation, you'll still take the ride on the charge the penguin cited. Just being a realist. I'm guessing the park's firearms prohibitive section. It's the most specific. |
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Posted: 8/23/2016 12:13:48 PM EDT
[#15]
I'm gonna go with the fact that NY PL400 specifically says a CC permit is valid throughout the state, despite any local laws.
And the only places PL400 specifically says are off limits are SCHOOLS (unless the admin approves of it), and NYC (unless the NYPD approves you). Everywhere else, NYS can't tell me I can't carry. Otherwise they should have listed those off limits places in the penal law. |
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Posted: 8/23/2016 12:15:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm gonna go with the fact that NY PL400 specifically says a CC permit is valid throughout the state, despite any local laws. And the only places PL400 specifically says are off limits are SCHOOLS (unless the admin approves of it), and NYC (unless the NYPD approves you). Everywhere else, NYS can't tell me I can't carry. Otherwise they should have listed those off limits places in the penal law. |
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Posted: 8/23/2016 2:38:36 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
nycrr regs for state parks are not 'local laws" they are state regulations Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm gonna go with the fact that NY PL400 specifically says a CC permit is valid throughout the state, despite any local laws. And the only places PL400 specifically says are off limits are SCHOOLS (unless the admin approves of it), and NYC (unless the NYPD approves you). Everywhere else, NYS can't tell me I can't carry. Otherwise they should have listed those off limits places in the penal law. No I know that...and I mentioned that fact in my original post...but... NYPL400 doesn't list any other places that are off limits, and says the permit is valid throughout NYS. PL400 would have said "no state parks" if that was off limits, like it does with schools and NYC. Park regs supercede NYS penal law? I hope not... At the very least, this is a matter of 2 contradicting laws. PL400 and Park regs. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 8:41:26 AM EDT
[#18]
I used to work for the State Park Police, you can and people have been charged under the NYS PRHPL for have a licensed handgun in a State park. It is a state law
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Posted: 8/24/2016 10:02:58 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I used to work for the State Park Police, you can and people have been charged under the NYS PRHPL for have a licensed handgun in a State park. It is a state law So if PL400 only lists NYC and schools as off limits, and specifically and clearly says I can carry anywhere else in the state, how can a park regulation "state law" contradict that? What if the penal law says I can, with my permit, own a machine gun...but a NY building code law says I can't? Who wins? |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 10:57:36 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So if PL400 only lists NYC and schools as off limits, and specifically and clearly says I can carry anywhere else in the state, how can a park regulation "state law" contradict that? What if the penal law says I can, with my permit, own a machine gun...but a NY building code says I can't? Who wins? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I used to work for the State Park Police, you can and people have been charged under the NYS PRHPL for have a licensed handgun in a State park. It is a state law So if PL400 only lists NYC and schools as off limits, and specifically and clearly says I can carry anywhere else in the state, how can a park regulation "state law" contradict that? What if the penal law says I can, with my permit, own a machine gun...but a NY building code says I can't? Who wins? Ok, so I'm not a lawyer and can't give legal advice, but I've been a cop 19 plus years. The way laws generally work is smaller governments can make things more restrictive and generally not less restrictive. Example: The federal government allows you (as long as your not a prohibited person and go through the red tape) to own machine guns (Pre 1986 I believe it is), SBR's and suppressors - states and municipalities can say no you can't. Just like NYC doesn't recognize permits issued outside of NYC unless from retired law enforcement or endorsed by NYPD (which I believe means you get a whole new permit from them). The shitty thing about the ban in the PRHPL is most people would never know, but "ignorance of the law is no excuse" |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 11:58:32 AM EDT
[#21]
Totally understand what you are saying regarding local/smaller governments being able to enact stricter laws...And that is allowed, unless there is a preemption law of some kind that overrides the local laws.
But here we are talking about 2 STATE laws contradicting each other. Not a lax federal law vs. a local (stricter) law. And one law (pl400) which specifically grants a right ANYWHERE in the state. So If one state law (PL400) specifically grants something, and says it is valid throughout the state...and another state law, arguably one that is less authoritative (a park reg), disregards the other state law...which one wins? PL400 would have to say "Valid throughout the state, unless another state law is enacted that says otherwise" Just beating a dead horse now, I know. But It would be nice for us to be able to carry in state parks free and clear. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 12:18:31 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Totally understand what you are saying regarding local/smaller governments being able to enact stricter laws...And that is allowed, unless there is a preemption law of some kind that overrides the local laws. But here we are talking about 2 STATE laws contradicting each other. Not a lax federal law vs. a local (stricter) law. And one law (pl400) which specifically grants a right ANYWHERE in the state. So If one state law (PL400) specifically grants something, and says it is valid throughout the state...and another state law, arguably one that is less authoritative (a park reg), disregards the other state law...which one wins? PL400 would have to say "Valid throughout the state, unless another state law is enacted that says otherwise" Just beating a dead horse now, I know. But It would be nice for us to be able to carry in state parks free and clear. LET GO OF THE FRUSTRATION AND JUST KNOW THAT IF THERE IS A LAW AGAINST IT. The parks are a separate thing - they have their own needs and came up with the law. I'm sure there are other non gun related laws out there that conflict with each other. I'll give you one - you cant drive in a state park with a permit - but that is not in the vehicle and traffic law, it's in the PRHPL. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 12:42:13 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LET GO OF THE FRUSTRATION AND JUST KNOW THAT IF THERE IS A LAW AGAINST IT. The parks are a separate thing - they have their own needs and came up with the law. I'm sure there are other non gun related laws out there that conflict with each other. I'll give you one - you cant drive in a state park with a permit - but that is not in the vehicle and traffic law, it's in the PRHPL. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Totally understand what you are saying regarding local/smaller governments being able to enact stricter laws...And that is allowed, unless there is a preemption law of some kind that overrides the local laws. But here we are talking about 2 STATE laws contradicting each other. Not a lax federal law vs. a local (stricter) law. And one law (pl400) which specifically grants a right ANYWHERE in the state. So If one state law (PL400) specifically grants something, and says it is valid throughout the state...and another state law, arguably one that is less authoritative (a park reg), disregards the other state law...which one wins? PL400 would have to say "Valid throughout the state, unless another state law is enacted that says otherwise" Just beating a dead horse now, I know. But It would be nice for us to be able to carry in state parks free and clear. LET GO OF THE FRUSTRATION AND JUST KNOW THAT IF THERE IS A LAW AGAINST IT. The parks are a separate thing - they have their own needs and came up with the law. I'm sure there are other non gun related laws out there that conflict with each other. I'll give you one - you cant drive in a state park with a permit - but that is not in the vehicle and traffic law, it's in the PRHPL. Lol sorry if I am playing devils advocate here...Dumb NY laws... But I am guessing there is something in the NY traffic laws that say you can't drive in areas that are prohibited or off limits or marked as such...which state parks are... PL400 actually seems to grant permission to carry anywhere in NY, except schools and NYC. Talking in circles I know. Sorry. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 12:43:21 PM EDT
[#24]
Don't get caught
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Posted: 8/24/2016 4:31:17 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't get caught He just wants his free ride...
Best option move the Fook out of this shite hole 
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Posted: 8/24/2016 10:30:38 PM EDT
[#26]
If anyone does get caught, it is only a fine. It's no different than getting one for an open container.
There own law says so. |
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