I do. After losing a fantasy football game by forgetting to swap an injured player (less 4pts ugh), I decided to further torture my battered ego by looking at pictures of my once testosterone-infused AR which, prior to being neutered, wore the gorgeous MOE+ PG and the lightweight RVG (I'm a big Magpul fan).  As some of you know I have added Talon Grips to the Spur which has helped me to regain some grip but I had yet to find a functional replacement for my beloved RVG. Now I never held the foregrip in that COD style white knuckle way.  I instead would lock my thumb under my TRL-1 (@10o'clock) and use the RVG as more of a hand stop.  Wait...lightbulb goes on.

What does the NY (un)SAFE Act say about foregrips?



Key words: "Grip" (obviously) & "Held".

So I get the Google skills going and find the Magpul XTM Hand Stop Kit.


This 4 piece kit is not marketed as a grip, not intended to be held like a grip, no manufacturer pictures showing it being held (looking at you Larue).

Conclusion: This is in no way a "grip" that is "held" and is not banned in the boy prince's law.  I searched on here and found no threads about this. I did find some on NYF where the consensus seemed to be that it is GTG.

TL;DR- Hand Stops seem good to go.

Discuss.

shrug

do not comply?

Yes, I miss my foreskin.

I get why you guys might not be too excited.  This law still sucks. But I'm trying to do my best to adapt and overcome. My gun is of more use to me if I can shoot it and I like to think I'm more useful outside of prison.  The hand stop allows me to regain some of what I lost. As does the Talon Grips on the Spur and taping 10 round mags together.  Does it make me all content and happy?  Fuck no. I'm still mad as hell and will continue to vote, donate, and spread the word.  But if I can make my life a little easier by slightly recapturing some ergonomics in the mean time then I'm gonna. Sure it sucks but it is better than nothing.

So with that said, can anyone confirm the hand stop's legality based on the wording of the "law"?  Obviously NYS will never give an answer but this seems like a good workaround for getting the way I like to hold my gun back.

I am done jumping through hoops to play their stupid semantics games.  YMMV

Best that I can say is that on a gray scale of 1-10, 1 being no VFG (definitely GTG) and 10 being the classic 4-5" completely vertical grip (definitely NG), this is maybe a 3.  I agree that it is not a grip that you hold, but there's some small chance that the particular cop who sees your gun decides that it's banned.  I wouldn't be too worried about it.  Heck, I'd put the FRS-15 at a 4 or 5 and I'm pretty confident that it should be compliant.  The angled FG is probably a 7 or 8.

I hold my bipod leg with my off hand and that's attached to my forearm.  I'm one baaad maaan!

I have considered getting a Harris Bipod but I haven't yet bought my MTAC so I think it would look a little foolish with my TRS-25 red dot. Plus there is the added weight and cost of the Bipod vs the small piece of Magpul polymer.  A Bipod would definitely be a safer bet as far as legality goes but I don't think I would be utilizing it to its full potential until I get my 1-4x.

Marcus Tullius Cicero:
There exists a law, not written down anywhere but inborn in our hearts; a law which comes to us not by training or custom or reading but by derivation and absorption and adoption from nature itself; a law which has come to us not from theory but from practice, not by instruction but by natural intuition. I refer to the law which lays it down that, if our lives are endangered by plots or violence or armed robbers or enemies, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right.


Samuel Adams:  
If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.


John Adams:  
Resistance to sudden violence, for the preservation not only of my person, my limbs and life, but of my property, is an indisputable right of nature which I have never surrendered to the public by the compact of society, and which perhaps, I could not surrender if I would. Nor is there anything in the common law of England inconsistent with that right.

All very good quotes from great men. Compliance might be considered losing a battle but I don't want to be a POW this early in the war against tyranny (or at all preferably).  I'd rather be actively helping the cause as a free man.  I understand that everyone is dealing with this differently and I believe it is everyone's right to do so.  All I am trying to accomplish with this thread is to provide an alternative that others may have not been aware of and discuss the legality of this alternative. I'm not saying to compromise what you are not willing to change.  Just observing options.  Options are always good.

The one cop who says it isn't good to go is exactly what I'm worried about. Then again the same thing could happen because of the Spur or the fact that it is a black rifle in general.  I hate that there aren't specific definitions almost as much as I hate the law in general.

Or you could just buy a nice SKS and have a much more useful rifle than any neutered AR.

This is the truth

Why not both?
I hadn't considered an SKS before but you guys got my interest lol. I've got a Kahr CM9 and a Winchester SXP Defender on my buy list first though.

I found some threads the other day about the ATF stating that adding the xtm hand stop to an AR pistol does not make it an SBR because you aren't adding a second grip. That seems like a pretty solid source to go by for it not being an illegal grip under unSAFE.

IMHO everyone should have one SKS.  I started off down this road with one and every single contemporary of mine who is a gun nut started with a lowly SKS.  Of course they were $50-120 back then but they were cool, and military and it all snowballed from there.

Never owned an SKS, but it was the first rifle that I shot.