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Posted: 4/23/2014 1:58:12 PM EDT
[#1]
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I would consider a tap and die set common hand tools. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hopefully there will be some legal guidance after all this is to whether or not the MR2 is legal. I would be curious how the "Spur" passes muster but that is not involved. Grip may not protrude conspicuously beneath the action of the gun. The bottom of the trigger is the bottom of the action. The Spur is on the same plain. Red Loctite the shit out of the screw so you would strip the threads inside the receiver trying to remove it. That is the advice I received from our sources inside the NYSP.  This differs from a previous statement you made regarding satisfactory grip attachment methods that were allegedly deemed approved. Did you receive clarification since then? (Not calling you out - just curious) Not contradictory, clarification. There is no deemed approved. There is best advice of those who will be called to render an opinion for the prosecution. If it can be readily reversed with common hand tools its a no go. Simply placing a spur on your rifle is not sufficient. Blue Loctite I'm told is not sufficient as it is not "permanent." Red Loctite would likely be OK as it will destroy the threads. Epoxy over the screw with nothing on the screw (Red Loctite) is likely not going to cut it if the epoxy can be chipped away to remove the screw, leaving receiver threads intact. The gun shop I work with installs the Spurs and Thordsen stocks with shit loads of Red Loctite. If the customer balks, they can install it themselves at home. This policy was implemented after lengthy conversations with law enforcement. You will get varying degrees of the same answer depending on who you talk to, but you would be well advised to assume that if it is reversible with common hand tools its a no go. Hope that helps my friend. I would consider a tap and die set common hand tools. Well they're not common at either Lowes or Home Depot! I went to both last year looking for a simple 1/2" SAE Coarse thread tap to use to chase a couple of threaded holes that had gotten gunked up with paint overspray. In both stores the guys in the "Tools" departments looked at me like I had two heads, and in both cases had to consult a manager. The managers were equally clueless until I explained how they were used!!! Based on that experience, I'd guess your local party apparatchik would have no idea how to make threads appear in a drilled hole. 
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Posted: 4/23/2014 2:13:08 PM EDT
[#2]
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Acetone,MEK, gasoline, or heat will remove red loctite easily enough too. On something as small as a PG screw it isn't hard to defeat with a lttle extra torque with regular hand tools. BTDT many times. It is cool that they think it is permanent though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Really, most people would have those in the home like they would a screw driver, pliers, hammer? No, they would not. Acetone,MEK, gasoline, or heat will remove red loctite easily enough too. On something as small as a PG screw it isn't hard to defeat with a lttle extra torque with regular hand tools. BTDT many times. It is cool that they think it is permanent though. It doesn't matter, all that matters is that it says it is "PERMANENT" on the label. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 2:56:55 PM EDT
[#3]
I've torched many a red Loctited part. Smokes right off. Sorry.
NOTHING is permanent if you got skills, It's subjective It's bullshit I've Dremeled away and restored welded shit. People convert welded drill rifles into operational rifles all the time. So, what's "permanent"? I want fucking details. Burglary is defined Sodomy is defined Assault is defined Rape is defined How do you make a law that doesn't define, in detail, if you are breaking it? Fuck these cocksuckers. This is tyranny. And everyone on the taxpayer payroll is in cahoots. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 2:58:07 PM EDT
[#4]
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snip. HR you can argue all you want but it really doesn't matter. None of the positions you have taken are law as are any of the positions that the other gents have taken. Regardless of what the "State Police Experts" and lawyers who post here say, until it is decided before a judge its all bullshit. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 3:39:21 PM EDT
[#5]
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It doesn't matter, all that matters is that it says it is "PERMANENT" on the label. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Really, most people would have those in the home like they would a screw driver, pliers, hammer? No, they would not. Acetone,MEK, gasoline, or heat will remove red loctite easily enough too. On something as small as a PG screw it isn't hard to defeat with a lttle extra torque with regular hand tools. BTDT many times. It is cool that they think it is permanent though. It doesn't matter, all that matters is that it says it is "PERMANENT" on the label. Well, legally speaking, that doesn't matter at all. Nothing says anything needs to be permanent. Somethings you had better make permanent, such as a fixed stock or blind pin/weld over threads, but nothing says a stock or grip must be permanently attached to the receiver. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 4:40:44 PM EDT
[#6]
No question, until a judge/jury decide what is legal we will not know what is legal. BUT if the NYSP are in charge of enforcing this piece of crap & they feel that mods have to be permanent & they say red loctite is permanent &'they don't arrest anyone we will never know!
Ridiculous, but many things in NY are RIDICULOUS. ALL we can do is keep donating to the pro 2nd amendment groups & hope for relief from SCOTUS, NY is lost politically so the courts are our only hope. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 6:03:56 PM EDT
[#7]
This truly is a load of crap. It's interesting that blind roll pins were considered an acceptable way of turning a telestock into a fixed stock, since they are removable. Filling the screw hole with JB Weld or red loctiting the threads would both be harder to undo than removing a blind roll pin, and both methods are clearly an attempt to follow the law.
This is a total mess. Some LGS are selling AR's with spurs or FRS 15 without any epoxy or red loctite, some with epoxy, and some with red loctite. It's sickening that this law wasn't laughed out of court because so much of it is undefined or vague, not to mention unconstitutional because it is a clear infringement of 2A and the Heller decision. but that's what the crime boss apparently wants. That POS is the one who should be in jail. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 6:12:49 PM EDT
[#8]
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This truly is a load of crap. It's interesting that blind roll pins were considered an acceptable way of turning a telestock into a fixed stock, since they are removable. Filling the screw hole with JB Weld or red loctiting the threads would both be harder to undo than removing a blind roll pin, and both methods are clearly an attempt to follow the law. This is a total mess. Some LGS are selling AR's with spurs or FRS 15 without any epoxy or red loctite, some with epoxy, and some with red loctite. It's sickening that this law wasn't laughed out of court because so much of it is undefined or vague, not to mention unconstitutional because it is a clear infringement of 2A and the Heller decision. but that's what the crime boss apparently wants. That POS is the one who should be in jail. I agree it's a joke.
However the more steps you take, the stronger your argument that you attempted to comply and believed you were in compliance. There is a reason I said fuck it, moved mine out of state, and bought a Mini 14. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 10:54:49 PM EDT
[#9]
If we are going for "looks permanent", since there is no real requirement for permanency, then why not opt for just apoxying over the screw? Seems better than risking some over zealous cop trying to wrench on your red locktited bolt for 20 mins to "make sure it is permanent". And should the law ever change or shtf I would think many would have no problem taking a sawzall to their lovely spur followed by turning a non-loctited bolt out with simple pliers. That way you pass the visual/subjective test and have an easy nondestructive (to import parts) way out should things change. Plus don't you have 30 days to register if you find out you're not in compliance when you thought you were legal? Good luck proving that gobs of apoxy over the bolt wasn't an honest attempt at complying. That's my thoughts on it anyway. What's a good "permanent" apoxy to put over it? Something that would be a real bitch to get off without cutting the grip itself off. That's what you want.
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Posted: 4/23/2014 11:11:20 PM EDT
[#10]
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If we are going for "looks permanent", since there is no real requirement for permanency, then why not opt for just apoxying over the screw? Seems better than risking some over zealous cop trying to wrench on your red locktited bolt for 20 mins to "make sure it is permanent". And should the law ever change or shtf I would think many would have no problem taking a sawzall to their lovely spur followed by turning a non-loctited bolt out with simple pliers. That way you pass the visual/subjective test and have an easy nondestructive (to import parts) way out should things change. Plus don't you have 30 days to register if you find out you're not in compliance when you thought you were legal? Good luck proving that gobs of apoxy over the bolt wasn't an honest attempt at complying. That's my thoughts on it anyway. What's a good "permanent" apoxy to put over it? Something that would be a real bitch to get off without cutting the grip itself off. That's what you want. IMO (and that's all it is), people are putting way too much faith in the notion that this clause of the unSAFE act is going to cover them. I would act with the assumption that the 30 day warning doesn't even exist. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 11:34:23 PM EDT
[#11]
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IMO (and that's all it is), people are putting way too much faith in the notion that this clause of the unSAFE act is going to cover them. I would act with the assumption that the 30 day warning doesn't even exist. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If we are going for "looks permanent", since there is no real requirement for permanency, then why not opt for just apoxying over the screw? Seems better than risking some over zealous cop trying to wrench on your red locktited bolt for 20 mins to "make sure it is permanent". And should the law ever change or shtf I would think many would have no problem taking a sawzall to their lovely spur followed by turning a non-loctited bolt out with simple pliers. That way you pass the visual/subjective test and have an easy nondestructive (to import parts) way out should things change. Plus don't you have 30 days to register if you find out you're not in compliance when you thought you were legal? Good luck proving that gobs of apoxy over the bolt wasn't an honest attempt at complying. That's my thoughts on it anyway. What's a good "permanent" apoxy to put over it? Something that would be a real bitch to get off without cutting the grip itself off. That's what you want. IMO (and that's all it is), people are putting way too much faith in the notion that this clause of the unSAFE act is going to cover them. I would act with the assumption that the 30 day warning doesn't even exist. You're right that it is smart not to rely on that. I just figured it was another potential bonus for what I suggested above. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 11:59:38 PM EDT
[#12]
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IMO (and that's all it is), people are putting way too much faith in the notion that this clause of the unSAFE act is going to cover them. I would act with the assumption that the 30 day warning doesn't even exist. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If we are going for "looks permanent", since there is no real requirement for permanency, then why not opt for just apoxying over the screw? Seems better than risking some over zealous cop trying to wrench on your red locktited bolt for 20 mins to "make sure it is permanent". And should the law ever change or shtf I would think many would have no problem taking a sawzall to their lovely spur followed by turning a non-loctited bolt out with simple pliers. That way you pass the visual/subjective test and have an easy nondestructive (to import parts) way out should things change. Plus don't you have 30 days to register if you find out you're not in compliance when you thought you were legal? Good luck proving that gobs of apoxy over the bolt wasn't an honest attempt at complying. That's my thoughts on it anyway. What's a good "permanent" apoxy to put over it? Something that would be a real bitch to get off without cutting the grip itself off. That's what you want. IMO (and that's all it is), people are putting way too much faith in the notion that this clause of the unSAFE act is going to cover them. I would act with the assumption that the 30 day warning doesn't even exist. Just another opinion! Anyone who is (Not someone who is arrested for some other offense) caught with an unregistered "what they think is compliant modified" rifle, that is not given to 30 day grace will be getting a payday. The Law is the Law & the police cannot violate the law causing harm because they feel like it, NYS is not a police state/dictatorship just yet! |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 12:06:53 AM EDT
[#13]
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Just another opinion! Anyone who is (Not someone who is arrested for some other offense) caught with an unregistered "what they think is compliant modified" rifle, that is not given to 30 day grace will be getting a payday. The Law is the Law & the police cannot violate the law causing harm because they feel like it, NYS is not a police state/dictatorship just yet! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If we are going for "looks permanent", since there is no real requirement for permanency, then why not opt for just apoxying over the screw? Seems better than risking some over zealous cop trying to wrench on your red locktited bolt for 20 mins to "make sure it is permanent". And should the law ever change or shtf I would think many would have no problem taking a sawzall to their lovely spur followed by turning a non-loctited bolt out with simple pliers. That way you pass the visual/subjective test and have an easy nondestructive (to import parts) way out should things change. Plus don't you have 30 days to register if you find out you're not in compliance when you thought you were legal? Good luck proving that gobs of apoxy over the bolt wasn't an honest attempt at complying. That's my thoughts on it anyway. What's a good "permanent" apoxy to put over it? Something that would be a real bitch to get off without cutting the grip itself off. That's what you want. IMO (and that's all it is), people are putting way too much faith in the notion that this clause of the unSAFE act is going to cover them. I would act with the assumption that the 30 day warning doesn't even exist. Just another opinion! Anyone who is (Not someone who is arrested for some other offense) caught with an unregistered "what they think is compliant modified" rifle, that is not given to 30 day grace will be getting a payday. The Law is the Law & the police cannot violate the law causing harm because they feel like it, NYS is not a police state/dictatorship just yet! You guys and your pay days
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Posted: 4/24/2014 1:45:17 AM EDT
[#14]
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You guys and your pay days Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If we are going for "looks permanent", since there is no real requirement for permanency, then why not opt for just apoxying over the screw? Seems better than risking some over zealous cop trying to wrench on your red locktited bolt for 20 mins to "make sure it is permanent". And should the law ever change or shtf I would think many would have no problem taking a sawzall to their lovely spur followed by turning a non-loctited bolt out with simple pliers. That way you pass the visual/subjective test and have an easy nondestructive (to import parts) way out should things change. Plus don't you have 30 days to register if you find out you're not in compliance when you thought you were legal? Good luck proving that gobs of apoxy over the bolt wasn't an honest attempt at complying. That's my thoughts on it anyway. What's a good "permanent" apoxy to put over it? Something that would be a real bitch to get off without cutting the grip itself off. That's what you want. IMO (and that's all it is), people are putting way too much faith in the notion that this clause of the unSAFE act is going to cover them. I would act with the assumption that the 30 day warning doesn't even exist. Just another opinion! Anyone who is (Not someone who is arrested for some other offense) caught with an unregistered "what they think is compliant modified" rifle, that is not given to 30 day grace will be getting a payday. The Law is the Law & the police cannot violate the law causing harm because they feel like it, NYS is not a police state/dictatorship just yet! You guys and your pay days In our sick society the only thing (short of jail time) that makes others understand the error of their ways is a grab for the offenders wallet. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 2:09:56 AM EDT
[#15]
I'm confused by all of this arguing over what is or is not "permanent." I thought the only question that was asked on the website is whether or not your magazine was detachable. Isn't all of this stuff (is it permanent / do you need to use a tool / what is the definition of a "commonly available" tool) trying to answer questions that haven't been asked? |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 3:03:17 AM EDT
[#16]
In regards to the original post about the Lancaster PD - Is there any plans to organize a protest outside the PD or DA's office.
In my opinion, We need to show some civil and visible support for zero tolerance towards LEO bias and prejudice against efforts lawful gun owners. There is an allegation in this story that the (retied cop) fabricated a projectile and claimed reckless shooting at his house. It seems like more anti-gun prejudice that we should demonstrate zero tolerance for. Who is up for a protest should these allegations prove true? We can't have Law Enforcement (even retired) fabricate evidence Ever! If true, you would have to wonder during a LEO career - what else they fabricated or did, Makes you wonder - We should not tolerate that and should demonstrate it in my opinion. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 6:28:09 AM EDT
[#17]
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I'm confused by all of this arguing over what is or is not "permanent." I thought the only question that was asked on the website is whether or not your magazine was detachable. Isn't all of this stuff (is it permanent / do you need to use a tool / what is the definition of a "commonly available" tool) trying to answer questions that haven't been asked? The Troopers I have spoken to have said in the absence of statutory definition, detachable will mean the commonly used definition - able to be removed and reattached, presumably repeatedly. Any mod that does not prevent it from being removed and reattached repeatedly would not work as the magazine would be detachable. If the mod was such that it could not be detached, and to detach it would cause damage to the magazine or host weapon, such that the magazine could no longer be removed and reattached, the mag ceases to be "Detachable." The only way to ensure that is for the compliance modification to be permanent in nature. The State Police experts I have spoken to indicated that the standard that they will use as witnesses in court is permanent means cannot be reversed with commonly available hand (not power) tools. You can debate whether tap and die sets are common household tools (I hold they are not), and whether Red Loctite is permanent or not. I'm just passing along information, do with it what you want. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 8:45:05 AM EDT
[#18]
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The Troopers I have spoken to have said in the absence of statutory definition, detachable will mean the commonly used definition - able to be removed and reattached, presumably repeatedly. Any mod that does not prevent it from being removed and reattached repeatedly would not work as the magazine would be detachable. If the mod was such that it could not be detached, and to detach it would cause damage to the magazine or host weapon, such that the magazine could no longer be removed and reattached, the mag ceases to be "Detachable." The only way to ensure that is for the compliance modification to be permanent in nature. The State Police experts I have spoken to indicated that the standard that they will use as witnesses in court is permanent means cannot be reversed with commonly available hand (not power) tools. You can debate whether tap and die sets are common household tools (I hold they are not), and whether Red Loctite is permanent or not. I'm just passing along information, do with it what you want. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm confused by all of this arguing over what is or is not "permanent." I thought the only question that was asked on the website is whether or not your magazine was detachable. Isn't all of this stuff (is it permanent / do you need to use a tool / what is the definition of a "commonly available" tool) trying to answer questions that haven't been asked? The Troopers I have spoken to have said in the absence of statutory definition, detachable will mean the commonly used definition - able to be removed and reattached, presumably repeatedly. Any mod that does not prevent it from being removed and reattached repeatedly would not work as the magazine would be detachable. If the mod was such that it could not be detached, and to detach it would cause damage to the magazine or host weapon, such that the magazine could no longer be removed and reattached, the mag ceases to be "Detachable." The only way to ensure that is for the compliance modification to be permanent in nature. The State Police experts I have spoken to indicated that the standard that they will use as witnesses in court is permanent means cannot be reversed with commonly available hand (not power) tools. You can debate whether tap and die sets are common household tools (I hold they are not), and whether Red Loctite is permanent or not. I'm just passing along information, do with it what you want. What about in instances where a rifle needs to be taken apart? For instance, removing the ability of an M1A (by disabling the magazine release through welding or pinning) to accept or detach a magazine without disassembling the rifle (removing the trigger group). |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:06:31 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Troopers I have spoken to have said in the absence of statutory definition, detachable will mean the commonly used definition - able to be removed and reattached, presumably repeatedly. Any mod that does not prevent it from being removed and reattached repeatedly would not work as the magazine would be detachable. If the mod was such that it could not be detached, and to detach it would cause damage to the magazine or host weapon, such that the magazine could no longer be removed and reattached, the mag ceases to be "Detachable. So does that then mean that the tubular magazines on a semi-auto .22 Marlin or a Winchester '94 (obviously not semi-auto) are considered detachable by the NYSP since they can be removed and installed repeatedly with hand tools and without damaging the magazine or the firearm? |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:10:36 AM EDT
[#20]
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So does that then mean that the tubular magazines on a semi-auto .22 Marlin or a Winchester '94 (obviously not semi-auto) are considered detachable by the NYSP since they can be removed and installed repeatedly with hand tools and without damaging the magazine or the firearm? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The Troopers I have spoken to have said in the absence of statutory definition, detachable will mean the commonly used definition - able to be removed and reattached, presumably repeatedly. Any mod that does not prevent it from being removed and reattached repeatedly would not work as the magazine would be detachable. If the mod was such that it could not be detached, and to detach it would cause damage to the magazine or host weapon, such that the magazine could no longer be removed and reattached, the mag ceases to be "Detachable. So does that then mean that the tubular magazines on a semi-auto .22 Marlin or a Winchester '94 (obviously not semi-auto) are considered detachable by the NYSP since they can be removed and installed repeatedly with hand tools and without damaging the magazine or the firearm? Fuck it I'm done with this shit. I'm telling you what they told me, period. These aren't my professional opinions. The law is fucking stupid. It has a million contradictions and unforeseen scenarios. All I'm doing is passing along what I've been told about detachable AR mags (the MR2 mod in particular), and pistol grips. Take it under advisement, ignore it, whatever. I'm done trying to share information that might just save people from getting jammed up. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:38:30 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So does that then mean that the tubular magazines on a semi-auto .22 Marlin or a Winchester '94 (obviously not semi-auto) are considered detachable by the NYSP since they can be removed and installed repeatedly with hand tools and without damaging the magazine or the firearm? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Troopers I have spoken to have said in the absence of statutory definition, detachable will mean the commonly used definition - able to be removed and reattached, presumably repeatedly. Any mod that does not prevent it from being removed and reattached repeatedly would not work as the magazine would be detachable. If the mod was such that it could not be detached, and to detach it would cause damage to the magazine or host weapon, such that the magazine could no longer be removed and reattached, the mag ceases to be "Detachable. So does that then mean that the tubular magazines on a semi-auto .22 Marlin or a Winchester '94 (obviously not semi-auto) are considered detachable by the NYSP since they can be removed and installed repeatedly with hand tools and without damaging the magazine or the firearm? I basically asked this question and the answer was as no. As I remember it was because detached it won't retain rounds, My guess is it's not considered a magazine if it will not retain rounds. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 11:22:35 AM EDT
[#22]
Stag Arms is now selling NY compliant AR's with the Thordsen Customs stock on it. Does anyone know if the screw that holds the stock on is red loctited in place or epoxied over? I saw one the other day at my lgs and it did not have any epoxy over the screw. A friend of mine just bought a Smith & Wesson M&P 15 with the spur installed and had it transferred through his lgs. The screw was not epoxied over or even loctited in place.
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Posted: 4/24/2014 11:32:50 AM EDT
[#23]
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Stag Arms is now selling NY compliant AR's with the Thordsen Customs stock on it. Does anyone know if the screw that holds the stock on is red loctited in place or epoxied over? I saw one the other day at my lgs and it did not have any epoxy over the screw. A friend of mine just bought a Smith & Wesson M&P 15 with the spur installed and had it transferred through his lgs. The screw was not epoxied over or even loctited in place. The whole point is....NO ONE knows if any of these methods are acceptable. There are educated guesses, but unless you roll the dice, and take your compliant (however its done) to a public range...IF it gets a once over by LE, we'll find out. Even the NYSP can't tell you whats good and whats not...they can GUESS, but their word is not binding. They can't even give the same answers on their "hotline". You'll just have to get used to the idea you live in a shitty state, where SOME LEO's and most of the upper elechon of LE (I am talking urban type departments, and NYSP for sure...) HATE you if you own guns, and are just itching for a chance to jam you up. MOST politicians hate you if you hold any conservative views, and really hate you if you own guns. They would love to see you jammed up, or die in a hail of bullets. They don't want to make their fucked up laws clear, concise, or easy to understand. Hell, even lawyers can't understand them. Who knows what methods will pass muster...especially since no where in the law does it even talk about PERMANENT...this is NYSP's opinion, and what makes permanent, permanent? No one knows. So you rolls the dice, and takes your chances... Your best bet still is getting out of this god forsaken hell hole, and leave it to the scum. Wish we all could.... 
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Posted: 4/24/2014 11:39:26 AM EDT
[#24]
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Your best bet still is getting out of this god forsaken hell hole, and leave it to the scum. Wish we all could.... I hate to say it but that is my conclusion too. Generations of my family have been here, fought and bled for NYand our freedom. Now in my opinion all for naught. Time to go somewhere else so the future generations can exercise their freedom. I don't want my kids growing up with this shit. Tyranny reigns supreme in NY. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 11:47:06 AM EDT
[#25]
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Stag Arms is now selling NY compliant AR's with the Thordsen Customs stock on it. Does anyone know if the screw that holds the stock on is red loctited in place or epoxied over? I saw one the other day at my lgs and it did not have any epoxy over the screw. A friend of mine just bought a Smith & Wesson M&P 15 with the spur installed and had it transferred through his lgs. The screw was not epoxied over or even loctited in place. PS...my guess is that they have neither locktite or epoxy...since the law doesn't say the mods have to be permanent, and if you were a manufacturer, and had your lawyer read the law, they would probably just tell them to change the stock, etc...they aren't living through this shit like we are, and probably figure the law is the law, not something NYSP can make shit up about as they go... Don't remember that SOB of a NYSP gun guy that said if he could grind, cut, hacksaw, or by any other method remove your "permanently" affixed muzzle break, and found threads under it, he would testify you had an illegal AW (this was back under the old ban...)...thats what we face. Guys like him deserve fates worse than death.... They lie, they make shit up, they tell us things that they have no purview over, and expect us all to take it. Now mind you this isn't all, or even most. But they are out there.... |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 11:52:31 AM EDT
[#26]
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The whole point is....NO ONE knows if any of these methods are acceptable. There are educated guesses, but unless you roll the dice, and take your compliant (however its done) to a public range...IF it gets a once over by LE, we'll find out. Even the NYSP can't tell you whats good and whats not...they can GUESS, but their word is not binding. They can't even give the same answers on their "hotline". You'll just have to get used to the idea you live in a shitty state, where SOME LEO's and most of the upper elechon of LE (I am talking urban type departments, and NYSP for sure...) HATE you if you own guns, and are just itching for a chance to jam you up. MOST politicians hate you if you hold any conservative views, and really hate you if you own guns. They would love to see you jammed up, or die in a hail of bullets. They don't want to make their fucked up laws clear, concise, or easy to understand. Hell, even lawyers can't understand them. Who knows what methods will pass muster...especially since no where in the law does it even talk about PERMANENT...this is NYSP's opinion, and what makes permanent, permanent? No one knows. So you rolls the dice, and takes your chances... Your best bet still is getting out of this god forsaken hell hole, and leave it to the scum. Wish we all could.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Stag Arms is now selling NY compliant AR's with the Thordsen Customs stock on it. Does anyone know if the screw that holds the stock on is red loctited in place or epoxied over? I saw one the other day at my lgs and it did not have any epoxy over the screw. A friend of mine just bought a Smith & Wesson M&P 15 with the spur installed and had it transferred through his lgs. The screw was not epoxied over or even loctited in place. The whole point is....NO ONE knows if any of these methods are acceptable. There are educated guesses, but unless you roll the dice, and take your compliant (however its done) to a public range...IF it gets a once over by LE, we'll find out. Even the NYSP can't tell you whats good and whats not...they can GUESS, but their word is not binding. They can't even give the same answers on their "hotline". You'll just have to get used to the idea you live in a shitty state, where SOME LEO's and most of the upper elechon of LE (I am talking urban type departments, and NYSP for sure...) HATE you if you own guns, and are just itching for a chance to jam you up. MOST politicians hate you if you hold any conservative views, and really hate you if you own guns. They would love to see you jammed up, or die in a hail of bullets. They don't want to make their fucked up laws clear, concise, or easy to understand. Hell, even lawyers can't understand them. Who knows what methods will pass muster...especially since no where in the law does it even talk about PERMANENT...this is NYSP's opinion, and what makes permanent, permanent? No one knows. So you rolls the dice, and takes your chances... Your best bet still is getting out of this god forsaken hell hole, and leave it to the scum. Wish we all could.... They are being sold in gun stores right now with these mods. The NYSP doesn't need to wait and catch you at the range to determine if it is compliant. They can just go to the lgs and make a determination there. I am sure (since several gun store owners and workers on long Island have been arrested before for illegal "assault weapons") that they would have made sure the guns they are selling are NY compliant. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 12:13:18 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are being sold in gun stores right now with these mods. The NYSP doesn't need to wait and catch you at the range to determine if it is compliant. They can just go to the lgs and make a determination there. I am sure (since several gun store owners and workers on long Island have been arrested before for illegal "assault weapons") that they would have made sure the guns they are selling are NY compliant. Well, you can roll the dice, but no one can tell you with 100% accuracy whether they are or are not....you would think they are ok, but who knows. Run into an anti-gun cop with it, and you may beat the wrap, but you won't beat the ride... This is the worst, shittiest part of this whole deal. No one will come out and define whats legal and whats not, so no one knows. And thats the facts... You think NY state and its pols care if they bankrupt you defending yourself on phony charges? They have unlimited resources....they can play that game. And if they lose like they did with T&T, who cares, the taxpayer has to pay the losses, and they got to further their agenda while it was in the news. I don't recall seeing news everywhere (papers, TV, radio...) when T&T eventually won, and hit the big pay day, but you sure heard all about it when they were (falsely) busted... Thats the game in this state... |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 1:30:35 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: HR you can argue all you want but it really doesn't matter. None of the positions you have taken are law as are any of the positions that the other gents have taken. Regardless of what the "State Police Experts" and lawyers who post here say, until it is decided before a judge its all bullshit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: snip. HR you can argue all you want but it really doesn't matter. None of the positions you have taken are law as are any of the positions that the other gents have taken. Regardless of what the "State Police Experts" and lawyers who post here say, until it is decided before a judge its all bullshit. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 1:48:15 PM EDT
[#29]
These threads just go on and on. The law is NOT badly written - it is written PERFECTLY for the establishment of a police state, and it is having that effect. No one knows what the fuck is legal or illegal, period. The NYSP God bless'em, do NOT MAKE LAW. Scum sucking pieces of shit in Albany like Shelly "The Pimp" Silver and Dean "I'm a Traitorous Motherfucker" Skelos do.
Ayn Rand nailed it in Atlas Shrugged; if you haven't read it, do, what she wrote 60+ years ago as fiction is happening now. Ayn Rand "There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted and you create a nation of law-breakers-and then you cash in on the guilt." |
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Posted: 4/27/2014 9:26:14 AM EDT
[#30]
Any new info on this?
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Posted: 4/27/2014 5:39:14 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've torched many a red Loctited part. Smokes right off. Sorry. NOTHING is permanent if you got skills, It's subjective It's bullshit I've Dremeled away and restored welded shit. People convert welded drill rifles into operational rifles all the time. So, what's "permanent"? I want fucking details. Burglary is defined Sodomy is defined Assault is defined Rape is defined How do you make a law that doesn't define, in detail, if you are breaking it? Fuck these cocksuckers. This is tyranny. And everyone on the taxpayer payroll is in cahoots. "Detachable" vs "Removable" Even "permanent" can be undone with determination and subjective common tools & equipment; Around here, it's common to have oxy/acetylene torches & vises....where you live it'll be different.
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Posted: 4/28/2014 4:04:06 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Detachable" vs "Removable" Even "permanent" can be undone with determination and subjective common tools & equipment; Around here, it's common to have oxy/acetylene torches & vises....where you live it'll be different. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've torched many a red Loctited part. Smokes right off. Sorry. NOTHING is permanent if you got skills, It's subjective It's bullshit I've Dremeled away and restored welded shit. People convert welded drill rifles into operational rifles all the time. So, what's "permanent"? I want fucking details. Burglary is defined Sodomy is defined Assault is defined Rape is defined How do you make a law that doesn't define, in detail, if you are breaking it? Fuck these cocksuckers. This is tyranny. And everyone on the taxpayer payroll is in cahoots. "Detachable" vs "Removable" Even "permanent" can be undone with determination and subjective common tools & equipment; Around here, it's common to have oxy/acetylene torches & vises....where you live it'll be different. I consider oxy/ acetylene, formaldehyde, nitroglycerine, mustard gas and Vaseline common tools 
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Posted: 4/28/2014 2:09:21 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I consider oxy/ acetylene, formaldehyde, nitroglycerine, mustard gas and Vaseline common tools
That must have been some party! 
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Posted: 4/29/2014 1:37:36 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That must have been some party!
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I consider oxy/ acetylene, formaldehyde, nitroglycerine, mustard gas and Vaseline common tools
That must have been some party!
It... was..... Epic |
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Posted: 4/29/2014 8:52:52 PM EDT
[#35]
Soooo.. any update about the individual and his rifle??
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