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6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 10/2/2012 7:05:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2012 9:21:59 AM EDT by Avit187]
A buddy of mine just moved into Putnam county and changed over his Westchester PP. The process was simple and he received his Putnam Permit.

He wanted to upgrade to an unrestricted permit now that he is out of Westchester. I have an unrestricted permit from Putnam County and explained the process that i had gone through to obtain it in 2009. Apparently they changed the process quite a bit, making it a little more difficult to obtain an unrestricted permit.

The old Process was to write a letter requesting a hearing to upgrade, receive a court date, wait...then sit in front of judge and answer questions and 99.9% of the time an unrestricted permit is granted. The hardest part was waiting for the court date.

My buddy went to pick up his new Putnam county permit and brought the letter requesting the court date with him. The Clerk informed him that the process has changed and now he needs to:

Show a certificate of completion of a "live fire" training course taken within the last month!(NRA Basic)
Show a bill of sale of a safe where guns will be stored
Provide Pictures of safe, including that it is Bolted to the floor.
Agree to allow Putnam County Sheriffs to inspect the safe at your home at random times.
Once all the above is provided you may request a hearing

All of the above requirements must be submitted during the court appearance. He was told these new regulations went in to effect in August. I cannot find any info from the county website. Not sure if this was passed by the county board or if they were just put in place by the county clerks office. The agreeing to home inspections seems crazy to me. Guess I am glad i got my restrictions removed before this. Anyone have any further information about this?
Link Posted: 10/2/2012 8:05:42 AM EDT
Wow.
Link Posted: 10/2/2012 9:02:15 AM EDT
Insanity abounds
Link Posted: 10/2/2012 10:30:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2012 10:33:22 AM EDT by NYMini]
Interesting. I believe Westchester only inspects the presence of a safe when you go for your 5th/6th pistol (not sure), but that applies to the "restricted" carry permit as well. Random inspections is more along the lines of having a C&R with the ATF and even then they make an appointment.
Link Posted: 10/2/2012 11:28:30 AM EDT
I got my restrictions removed back in March. I provided my CRSO certification and was asked if I had a safe, that was it. At the hearing some people were required to retake a safety class if they hadn't done one in over a few years and those that were required to show live fire training were people that had their permits for a very short period of time (less than 1.5 years).
Link Posted: 10/2/2012 3:57:00 PM EDT
ridiculous
so, no safe requirement for those who don't want to carry?
how stupid. If anything those that don't carry have a greater need for the safe than those that do since the gun will be at home when they're not

every time there is a PP thread I'm reminded how lucky I was to still be in Chautauqua County when I got mine
Link Posted: 10/2/2012 4:40:08 PM EDT
These people are on some sort of controlling drug, and I thought that long island was dumb enough .
Imagine having to open your doors to the police just to store loud music on your computer, even if you only listen to it inside your house
Link Posted: 10/2/2012 5:02:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Avit187:

Show a bill of sale of a safe where guns will be stored
Provide Pictures of safe, including that it is Bolted to the floor.
Agree to allow Putnam County Sheriffs to inspect the safe at your home at random times.


What does the safe have to do with carrying concealed

i would think the demand to randomly inspect the home would be easily shot down

Do people with over-stamped permits have to own a safe and have their house inspected?
Link Posted: 10/2/2012 7:32:18 PM EDT
This the first that I've heard anything about inspections, none of my police friends have said anything nor have I heard anyone bitching about it at PCFGA. If they were doing them for people with a lot of handguns I'd probably be one of the first one's inspected.
Link Posted: 10/2/2012 10:13:39 PM EDT
Yet again reminding us that the 2nd amendment is a privilege... not a right.
Link Posted: 10/4/2012 12:23:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NYMini:
Interesting. I believe Westchester only inspects the presence of a safe when you go for your 5th/6th pistol (not sure), but that applies to the "restricted" carry permit as well.


confirming this, march of this year. they asked if my plain safe was bolted to the ground, i said no, he said ok, we reccomend it. thats it
Link Posted: 10/4/2012 2:45:14 PM EDT
My first thought (and it would be damn hard to not announce it very loudly) would be "ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MIND?"
Sooner or later these Judges that set their own precedence are going to have to be reeled in.
Link Posted: 10/4/2012 5:38:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NYPrivateer:
This the first that I've heard anything about inspections, none of my police friends have said anything nor have I heard anyone bitching about it at PCFGA. If they were doing them for people with a lot of handguns I'd probably be one of the first one's inspected.


I'm in Putnam and have never heard of any inspections.
Westchester requires a one time inspection of your safe after your 5th pistol.
Either way, bs
I may be wrong, correct me if necessary.
Link Posted: 10/5/2012 7:33:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2012 7:34:27 AM EDT by Avit187]
I'm in Putnam and have never heard of any inspections.
Westchester requires a one time inspection of your safe after your 5th pistol.
Either way, bs
I may be wrong, correct me if necessary.


This is the first i have heard about it as well. From what i can tell they are not inspecting people who already have permits, but anyone who has received one as of August 2012 will have to provide all of the things listed in the OP. I am not sure if this applies to standard restricted permits or just full carries, as my buddy was not informed about any of these requirements until he asked for a court date to remove his restrictions. It also may be that since he was transferring his permit from one county to another he would be "grandfathered In", but have to be subject to the new rules if he wanted to upgrade the permit....it sounds as though this is just being applied to those who are upgrading permits. I know from talking to people in the clerks office that the amount of unrestricted permit requests has been huge in recent years, and it could be that they are trying to implement changes to slow down on the amount of "full carries" being handed out.

Hoping someone that has gone through the process of upgrading or getting a new permit after August can shed some light on what was requested of them.
Link Posted: 10/5/2012 7:47:30 AM EDT
Seems to me it is just another thing to try and discourage people from applying for, or upgrading to, a "normal" NYS pistol permit.
Link Posted: 10/6/2012 1:22:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:
Originally Posted By NYPrivateer:
This the first that I've heard anything about inspections, none of my police friends have said anything nor have I heard anyone bitching about it at PCFGA. If they were doing them for people with a lot of handguns I'd probably be one of the first one's inspected.


I'm in Putnam and have never heard of any inspections.
Westchester requires a one time inspection of your safe after your 5th pistol.
Either way, bs
I may be wrong, correct me if necessary.


I'm gonna third this one. I 'm a PCFG member and I know another member who had his restrictions lifted about a year ago. He had to take an NRA safety course and give justification for a 'full carry'. He stated that he shoots and competes at multiple ranges, and with a restricted license he technically had to go directly home after each match. That was good enough and the judge issues an unrestricted permit.
Link Posted: 10/6/2012 4:03:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Avit187:
My buddy went to pick up his new Putnam county permit and brought the letter requesting the court date with him. The Clerk informed him that the process has changed and now he needs to:

Show a certificate of completion of a "live fire" training course taken within the last month!(NRA Basic)
Show a bill of sale of a safe where guns will be stored
Provide Pictures of safe, including that it is Bolted to the floor.
Agree to allow Putnam County Sheriffs to inspect the safe at your home at random times.
Once all the above is provided you may request a hearing


All of which are illegal. You have no requirement for a safe post-Heller. You have no requirement under NYS to complete a live-fire course.
Link Posted: 10/6/2012 6:14:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Avit187:
Show a certificate of completion of a "live fire" training course taken within the last month!(NRA Basic)
Show a bill of sale of a safe where guns will be stored
Provide Pictures of safe, including that it is Bolted to the floor.
Agree to allow Putnam County Sheriffs to inspect the safe at your home at random times.
Once all the above is provided you may request a hearing


I'm an NRA certified instructor and the basic pistol course does not contain live fire. On top of this I'm familiar with the issuing judge in Putnam county, and this doesn't sound like him. I'm calling shenanigans.
Link Posted: 10/7/2012 3:35:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sgt_Gold:

I'm an NRA certified instructor and the basic pistol course does not contain live fire. On top of this I'm familiar with the issuing judge in Putnam county, and this doesn't sound like him. I'm calling shenanigans.

The NRA Basic Pistol Course requires a live fire range component to in order receive a completion certificate. You must be thinking of one of the other NRA firearm safety courses which do not have a live fire component.

Name : NRA Basic Pistol Shooting Course

Short Description : Teaches the basic knowledge, skills, and attitude for owning and operating a pistol safely.

More Details: This course is at least 8-hours long and includes classroom and range time learning to shoot revolvers and
semi-automatic pistols. Students learn NRA’s rules for safe gun handling; pistol parts and operation; ammunition; shooting
fundamentals; range rules; shooting from the bench rest position, and two handed standing positions; cleaning the pistol;
and continued opportunities for skill development. Students will receive the NRA Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting
handbook, NRA Gun Safety Rules brochure, Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification booklet, take a Basics of Pistol
Shooting Student Examination, and course completion certificate. (Lesson Plan 2nd edition, 2009, 02/11)



Link Posted: 10/7/2012 4:23:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By Sgt_Gold:

I'm an NRA certified instructor and the basic pistol course does not contain live fire. On top of this I'm familiar with the issuing judge in Putnam county, and this doesn't sound like him. I'm calling shenanigans.

The NRA Basic Pistol Course requires a live fire range component to in order receive a completion certificate. You must be thinking of one of the other NRA firearm safety courses which do not have a live fire component.

Name : NRA Basic Pistol Shooting Course

Short Description : Teaches the basic knowledge, skills, and attitude for owning and operating a pistol safely.

More Details: This course is at least 8-hours long and includes classroom and range time learning to shoot revolvers and
semi-automatic pistols. Students learn NRA’s rules for safe gun handling; pistol parts and operation; ammunition; shooting
fundamentals; range rules; shooting from the bench rest position, and two handed standing positions; cleaning the pistol;
and continued opportunities for skill development. Students will receive the NRA Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting
handbook, NRA Gun Safety Rules brochure, Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification booklet, take a Basics of Pistol
Shooting Student Examination, and course completion certificate. (Lesson Plan 2nd edition, 2009, 02/11)





I'm thinking that some instructors giving the class omit the shooting portion of the class IF those in attendance are already proficient with handgun usage.
Link Posted: 10/7/2012 4:55:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/7/2012 6:42:20 AM EDT by rkbar15]

Originally Posted By fp1201:

I'm thinking that some instructors giving the class omit the shooting portion of the class IF those in attendance are already proficient with handgun usage.


WC requires a pistol safety course so if you're 21* or older some NRA instructor's will issue a letter stating you've completed the saftey component of the basic pistol course and let you complete the range requirement for the completion certificate after you're licensed. They should not be issuing the completion certificate without completing the live fire range component of he course.

ETA: * Of course if you're at least 14 and less than 21 you can take the full NRA basic pistol course including the live fire range component. Gotta love Silver and the NY Assembly for blocking legislation allowing anyone over 14 from firing a handgun at a range under the supervision of an instructor or other pistol licensee.
Link Posted: 10/7/2012 5:55:43 AM EDT
Although I heartily recommend a safe and that it is bolted down but geesh, as a permit requirement yeah it trips my "shall not be infringed" meter pretty hard.

I think these justices may be right in strongly recommending the practice as responsible firearms ownership but not as a condition of ownership let alone the concealed "upgrade" condition.

Getting more and more like Europe every day.
Link Posted: 10/7/2012 6:42:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By fp1201:

I'm thinking that some instructors giving the class omit the shooting portion of the class IF those in attendance are already proficient with handgun usage.


WC requires a pistol safety course so if you're 21 or older some NRA instructor's will issue a letter stating you've completed the saftey component of the basic pistol course and let you complete the range requirement for the completion certificate after you're licensed. They should not be issuing the completion certificate without completing the live fire range component of he course.


This is what I was getting at but I spoke poorly. The only course I can find on the NRA trainer web site that doesn't require either a live fire or proof of live fire is the NRA Home Firearm Safety Course. The Putnam County Sheriff's department offers a four hour safety course that's sufficient to get your license. I'm assuming that they want more in order to get your restrictions lifted.
Link Posted: 10/8/2012 8:10:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SteelonSteel:
Although I heartily recommend a safe and that it is bolted down but geesh, as a permit requirement yeah it trips my "shall not be infringed" meter pretty hard.

I think these justices may be right in strongly recommending the practice as responsible firearms ownership but not as a condition of ownership let alone the concealed "upgrade" condition.

Getting more and more like Europe every day.


I believe we are on our way there, especially if the zero gets re elected. Guy I work with at my weekend job, tells me that two sheriff deputies had to interview his neighbors when he was applying for his permit. I have heard of this before in other counties .He is in colonie, I think?
Link Posted: 10/8/2012 2:48:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2012 2:49:34 PM EDT by ml2150]
.
Link Posted: 10/8/2012 2:51:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sgt_Gold:


This is what I was getting at but I spoke poorly. The only course I can find on the NRA trainer web site that doesn't require either a live fire or proof of live fire is the NRA Home Firearm Safety Course. The Putnam County Sheriff's department offers a four hour safety course that's sufficient to get your license. I'm assuming that they want more in order to get your restrictions lifted.



RSO, Chief RSO and Reloading courses do not have a live fire component.


Link Posted: 10/18/2012 2:25:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ml2150:

Originally Posted By Sgt_Gold:


This is what I was getting at but I spoke poorly. The only course I can find on the NRA trainer web site that doesn't require either a live fire or proof of live fire is the NRA Home Firearm Safety Course. The Putnam County Sheriff's department offers a four hour safety course that's sufficient to get your license. I'm assuming that they want more in order to get your restrictions lifted.



RSO, Chief RSO and Reloading courses do not have a live fire component.




I don't think you can use those three courses to get your pistol license.

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