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Posted: 2/1/2012 9:31:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/1/2012 4:21:35 PM EST by lostinboston]
When did NY outlaw the possesion of automatic weapons? Did they confiscate those legally owned or just make it so difficult that everyone who owned one left or sold them? Is there "pre-ban" class 3 available in NY?

ETA: I am specifically referring to Class 3 automatic weapons and assault rifles. NOT the assault weapons ban. NY state not city.

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Link Posted: 2/1/2012 9:51:26 AM EST
NY is not a Class III State, there are no Class III weapons allowed for civilians. If any confiscation occured, it was eons ago.
NY Adopted the old Federal AW law, sans the sunset provision which lives on today.
The "City" is a very different animal from the rest of the State: there is almost very difficult to have anything, the rest of the State isn't as bad.....not good, just not as bad.
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Link Posted: 2/1/2012 9:52:24 AM EST
NY is not a Class III State, there are no Class III weapons allowed for civilians. If any confiscation occured, it was eons ago.
NY Adopted the old Federal AW law, sans the sunset provision which lives on today.
The "City" is a very different animal from the rest of the State: there is almost very difficult to have anything, the rest of the State isn't as bad.....not good, just not as bad.

Please do not confuse "automatic" weapons (class III aka Machineguns) with Title I "Semi-automatic" firearms.
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Link Posted: 2/1/2012 10:01:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/1/2012 10:03:27 AM EST by cas]
I'm curious to know. Since we've needed pistol permits since 1911, and FA/SBR/SBS/AOW stuff wasn't regulated federally until 1934, did NY have laws against them prior to the NFA34?
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Link Posted: 2/1/2012 7:51:51 PM EST
Curious also..

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Link Posted: 2/1/2012 8:49:15 PM EST
Can't think of many full-auto weapons before 1911, but there definitely were. I really do wonder what happened with that.

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Link Posted: 2/2/2012 2:14:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/2/2012 2:15:39 AM EST by Phil_A_Steen]
Machine guns were outlawed in New York as a result of the public furor following the slaying of a child in a hit by Mad Dog Coll in 1931. You can read the story at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Dog_Coll

ETA: I believe the Thompson used by Mad Dog Coll is on display at the NYPD Museum, although the display card on the case may not say that.
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Link Posted: 2/2/2012 2:43:19 AM EST
New York banned automatic weapons before the NFA in 1934. About twenty years ago, Soldier of Fortune had a story on state automatic weapons bans. They came about due to the amount of gangland violence taking place in the 20's and 30's. Bonnie and Clyde's favorite weapon was the BAR. It was noted in those days you could walk into a hardware store and purchase a Thompson as easily as you could buy a hammer.

The basis of New York's law is the Uniform Machine Gun Act of 1932 that was drafted by the National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws. This act was supported by the NRA.

I wish I could dig up that old article. It was very interesting to read.

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Link Posted: 2/2/2012 4:43:35 AM EST
Something else to note about MG's being easily available in the 20's and 30's is that they were 10x the price of other firearms and thus highly uncommon. The reason we see so much association with big name criminals of that era is that their success in crime made them wealthy enough to afford them, a noticeable distinction particularly in the early 30's with the onset of the Depression.

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Link Posted: 2/2/2012 5:20:30 AM EST
John Dillinger and The Barrow gang (Bonnie and Clyde) obtained the majority of their automatic weapons, including BARs, by raiding national guard and police armories.

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Link Posted: 2/2/2012 7:03:36 AM EST
^ Which again furthers my point that "ease" of ownership by regular civilians as being the source of them for criminals was NOT a real motive prompting the NFA and NY's prohibition of select fire.

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Link Posted: 2/2/2012 1:15:39 PM EST
Here is the big deterent. In 1934 the Thompson SMG sold for $195.00 and the NFA stamp was $200.00. A steep price to pay for a Honest person wanting a machine gun.

As a side note:
Frequently, people refer to NFA weapons as “Class 3” guns. This is actually a misnomer. The National Firearms Act breaks firearms down into two basic categories: Title I and Title II. Title I guns are the guns with which most people are familiar, rifles, shotguns, and handguns. Title II guns are the aforementioned machineguns, silencers, short-barrel rifles, short-barrel shotguns, destructive devices, and “Any Other Weapons.” The confusion comes from years of misinformation, or lack of information regarding the definitions within NFA 34.

Commonly, dealers who buy, sell, and trade NFA Title II weapons are known as “Class 3 Dealers.” “Class 3” actually refers to a tax-payer status of federally licensed firearms dealers, or FFL’s. In order to deal in NFA Title II weapons, an FFL must pay an annual Special Occupancy Tax, or SOT. A Class 1 SOT is for a licensed firearms importer. A licensed manufacturer pays a Class 2 SOT, while a dealer pays a Class 3 SOT. The amount of the tax is mostly based on the class, with an additional factor being the gross annual sales of certain SOT’s. Since people wishing to buy an NFA Title II weapon most often buy them from dealers who are Class 3 SOT’s, they came to be simply known as “Class 3 dealers.”

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Link Posted: 2/2/2012 1:32:31 PM EST
There are individuals in NYS who own Class 3 full auto machine guns. Hunter S. Thompson had a pretty large collection of Full Auto guns in NYS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNEImAIM4L4

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Link Posted: 2/2/2012 4:50:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By PattyOSullivan:
There are individuals in NYS who own Class 3 full auto machine guns. Hunter S. Thompson had a pretty large collection of Full Auto guns in NYS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNEImAIM4L4


How was he able to own them in NY?
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Link Posted: 2/2/2012 5:30:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/2/2012 5:34:44 PM EST by Danj]

Originally Posted By PattyOSullivan:
There are individuals in NYS who own Class 3 full auto machine guns. Hunter S. Thompson had a pretty large collection of Full Auto guns in NYS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNEImAIM4L4

Was he an FFL?

ETA: I have a high school friend whose grandfather was a Colt executive. The guy swears that his grandfather possessed at least one full auto M16 in NY. I assume there are exemptions in NY for legit factory reps?

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Link Posted: 2/2/2012 6:15:23 PM EST
I remember correctly it was in the mid to late seventies a local gun store owner in dutchess county ( he was older than dirt ) who's establishment my father and I frequented possessed an original full auto Thompson SMG.
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Link Posted: 2/3/2012 4:35:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By Danj:

I assume there are exemptions in NY for legit factory reps?


Yup.
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Link Posted: 2/3/2012 4:49:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By Danj:

I assume there are exemptions in NY for legit factory reps?


Yup.

Would this be similar to a manufacturer being allowed to posses/manufacture full auto weapons? Just curious because it flies in the face of all the bs laws.
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Link Posted: 2/3/2012 4:59:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By lawle102:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By Danj:

I assume there are exemptions in NY for legit factory reps?


Yup.

Would this be similar to a manufacturer being allowed to posses/manufacture full auto weapons? Just curious because it flies in the face of all the bs laws.


The rep is acting as an agent for the manufacturer
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Link Posted: 2/3/2012 9:36:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By NNYdiesel:
Originally Posted By PattyOSullivan:
There are individuals in NYS who own Class 3 full auto machine guns. Hunter S. Thompson had a pretty large collection of Full Auto guns in NYS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNEImAIM4L4


How was he able to own them in NY?


How is that possible....If its just because he has a bunch of money..I'm sure there are a lot more MG's in NY..

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Link Posted: 2/3/2012 8:09:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By fnub315:
Originally Posted By NNYdiesel:
Originally Posted By PattyOSullivan:
There are individuals in NYS who own Class 3 full auto machine guns. Hunter S. Thompson had a pretty large collection of Full Auto guns in NYS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNEImAIM4L4


How was he able to own them in NY?


How is that possible....If its just because he has a bunch of money..I'm sure there are a lot more MG's in NY..


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Link Posted: 2/3/2012 8:34:04 PM EST
Is there any proof that he was the owner of those machine guns?

From what I understand some prop houses hold type 07 FFLs so I don't think it would be much of a stretch for NBC to be able to get access to stuff like this.

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Link Posted: 2/4/2012 1:36:07 AM EST
Just because he said he was in Upstate NY does not mean he was in Upstate New York.. Hunter S Thompson didn't maintain any NY property after 1962 supposedly..

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Link Posted: 2/5/2012 11:18:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By PattyOSullivan:
There are individuals in NYS who own Class 3 full auto machine guns. Hunter S. Thompson had a pretty large collection of Full Auto guns in NYS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNEImAIM4L4


A lot of people say that, but no one ever produces the ATF paperwork. Until I see the tax stamp it hasn't happened.
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