Someone at THR posted an interesting announcement on public comments on a proposed rule change for handgun licensing.  Anyone hear of this.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6678352#post6678352

I'm the one that started it all.  The NYPD e-mailed us about the public comment period.  I am told NYPD is trying to define what good moral character is.

Bloomberg and his politically appointed hacks are running scared as a result of the Heller/McDonald decisions.  They know the hammer will be dropping soon on their  arbitrary/capricious rules/regulations/fee structure and politically motivated license issuing decisions.



I can't wait until they have to explain/defend in Federal Court how they authorize premise pistol licensee's to transport licensed handguns and concealed carry while hunting in violation of the NYS licensing law while at the same time prohibit a licensee from transporting those same licensed handguns to attend firearm training, target shooting, pistol competition or for any other lawful purpose outside the City of NY.  



After many years of criticism they recently implemented expanded hours on Mondays.  



THE LICENSE DIVISION IS OPEN TO SUBMIT NEW APPLICATIONS UNTIL 8:00 PM ON MONDAYS.



Applicants must arrive at 1 Police Plaza or the Rifle/Shotgun Section , 120-55 Queens Boulevard, Kew Gardens,

early enough for processing to be completed by 8:00 PM. The amount of time needed to process an application

varies by situation, but averages approximately 45 minutes. Please review instructions for items needed before

submitting your application.

Just want to say thanks for your part in this.  I'm not clear what regs are at issue however.  The sections quoted are the authorizing powers, it seems.

They didn't say.  They just sent us the e-mail notice.  Another member got a hold of what they want and it's defining good moral character.

All this is probably just a smokescreen.  They have to know at some point their discretionary authority will come under attack.  They are likely hoping this will be enough to cover them under SCOTUS' reasonable restrictions clause.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/om/html/2010a/pr207-10.html





FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE





PR- 207-10





May 14, 2010





MAYOR BLOOMBERG AND POLICE COMMISSIONER KELLY ANNOUNCE REVISION OF CITY’S LAWS, RULES, AND PROCEDURES FOR GUN LICENSING TO IMPROVE PUBLIC SAFETY AND INVESTIGATIVE EFFECTIVENESS





New Local Law Will Forbid Carrying Guns While Intoxicated





Package Includes Enhancements to Focus More Resources on Investigation of License Applicants





Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly today announced a package of improvements to the way New York City handles gun licenses and other measures to improve the efficiency of investigations in the license application process.  The New York City Police Department issues licenses to carry and possess handguns, rifles, and shotguns in the City.  The new practices, some of which have been put in place in recent months and some of which will require changes in local laws and police regulations, will streamline the gun permit application process and enable the Police Department to focus more resources on background investigations. The Mayor also announced local legislation that can result in gun license revocation and jail for anyone convicted of carrying guns while intoxicated.





"The changes announced today will improve public safety and make the investigation process more effective,” said Mayor Bloomberg. "A rigorous license review should not include unnecessary red tape that slows down our investigators.”





"We’ve streamlined our system to make certain the those who should be approved for gun licenses are dealt with expeditiously while making certain we keep guns out of the hands of those who pose a danger to themselves or others,” said Commissioner Kelly. "If automobiles are dangerous with a drunken driver behind the wheel, it should be obvious and subject to tough penalties when a drunk puts a gun in his hand.”





"These improvements are part of the City’s ongoing efforts to improve the efficiency and effectiveness of gun licensing,” said John Feinblatt, the Mayor’s Criminal Justice Coordinator.  "This array of measures will improve public safety, save the City money, and save law-abiding people time.”





"When drunk drivers get behind the wheel, that vehicle becomes a deadly weapon,” said Council Speaker Christine C. Quinn. "The same laws should apply to those who carry handguns and are under the influence of alcohol or drugs. The Council looks forward to holding public safety hearings on this piece of legislation and the others announced today.”





"Guns and alcohol are a toxic mix,” said Public Safety Chair Peter Vallone, Jr. "We can no longer wait for Albany to get its act together. We need to protect our citizens now and that’s why this legislation was introduced.”





The proposed package of local legislation, revised regulations, and changes to Police Department practice will include:





   * Criminalizing carrying while intoxicated:  Changing local law to create a new misdemeanor of carrying a gun while intoxicated in the City.  The measure uses the same legal standard as driving while intoxicated.  Violations could lead to sentences of up to one year in jail.





   * Revised fee structure:  Changing local law to modify fees for the various types of gun licenses in the City.  In particular, the new system will offer lower fees for most renewal licenses.





   * Speedy processing:  The NYPD has already cut the average time to review applications for handguns in homes almost in half, from 20 weeks in 2007 to 11 weeks in 2009.  The NYPD is committed to sustaining that figure, even though state law allows up to six months to process applications, and more time in exceptional cases.  Enhanced technology and oversight in the overall application process have allowed the NYPD to focus more investigative resources on applicants who merit enhanced reviews.





   * Choice of payment methods:  The NYPD now accepts payment by credit card for initial license applications, rather than requiring money orders.  By July 2010, it will accept credit cards for license renewal fees as well.





   * Fewer in-person visits:  The NYPD has already made it possible to download applications from its website, saving applicants a trip to an NYPD facility.  A new secure process under development will allow applicants to pick up new handgun licenses by mail or electronically as well, rather than having to return to an NYPD office to collect them, reducing the number of in-person visits required for new applicants from four to three – and saving applicants time.





   * More flexible hours:  The NYPD’s licensing offices will offer evening hours once a week to make the process more convenient for working New Yorkers by July of this year.





   * Additional guidance on the standards:  The NYPD is required by state law to determine whether an applicant is of "good moral character” and whether other "good cause” makes the applicant ineligible to have a gun.  NYPD will add to its regulations to offer more detailed examples of eligibility standards for a permit, and make the additional examples available both in print and online.  





   * Improved Identification Verification:  In lieu of the current notarization requirement, NYPD will use in-person visits and technology to verify the identity of license applicants.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/15/nyregion/15guns.html?_r=1





Bloomberg Plan Would Simplify Gun-Permits





By AL BAKER





The Bloomberg administration announced on Friday that it was moving to simplify the process for New Yorkers to obtain gun permits, thus speeding up a set of byzantine licensing requirements that gun-rights advocates have long criticized as among the most restrictive in the country.





Administration officials said that the move was forged by a City Hall focused on efficiency and that it would allow for better investigation of applicants who might not qualify for a gun while more swiftly satisfying those fit to have them.





But the timing of the decision was curious to some, as it follows a 2008 Supreme Court ruling that struck down parts of the gun-control law in the District of Columbia and subsequent challenges to gun laws in other places.





"If I were working for the mayor in New York, in the legal department particularly, I’d be saying: ‘Are we sure we can defend these laws? Are there things to do, ahead of time, that will make it easier for us to defend them?’ ” said Paul Helmke, the president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "I would be surprised if that were not the thinking.”





The announcement was an unexpected turn for Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, who has made national headlines with his efforts to take guns out of criminals’ hands and stem their trafficking, like using private investigators to pose as gun buyers in sting operations and suing gun dealers in several states.





A spokesman for the mayor said on Friday that despite Mr. Bloomberg’s continuing fight, he had never taken issue with legal gun ownership, a perspective that Colin Weaver, of New Yorkers Against Gun Violence, said he was in sync with.





"The mayor is focused on crime control, not gun control,” said the Bloomberg spokesman, Jason Post. "He has no problem with people who want to go hunting. The issue is illegal guns that are killing people and, all too often, police officers.”





In New York, the Police Department issues licenses to possess handguns, rifles and shotguns in the city, and to carry them. The application process for a handgun is laid out on the department’s Web site. To get a gun, applicants must go to 1 Police Plaza. The fee is $340, not including a $94.25 fingerprint-check fee. Weeks of waiting can follow. There is also a process for license renewal.





For a residential possession permit, applicants must demonstrate that they are not prohibited from gun ownership by having, for example, a history of domestic violence or arrest or conviction. These words on the Web site highlight just how subjective disapproval for a handgun is: "If your investigation results in a determination that you lack character and fitness for a license permit, your application will be denied.”





For a permit to carry a gun, the bar is higher. The prospective gun owner must "show a need,” said a police spokesman. An example might be a part-time security worker.





One change outlined on Friday is geared toward transparency by having the police "offer more detailed examples of eligibility standards for a permit, and make the additional examples available both in print and online,” according to a news release from the mayor’s office.





Other changes include speeding up reviews of applications, reducing how many in-person visits new applicants must make, expanding ways to pay for license renewals and opening the Police Department’s licensing offices one evening a week. Also, at a time when other fees are rising or staying flat, one change calls for slashing fees for most renewal licenses, but Mr. Post said no specific amounts had been proposed. He said some fees might rise.





"This package will make New Yorkers safer,” he said, adding that the city was not now facing any legal challenges to its licensing system.





Andrew Arulanandam, a spokesman for the National Rifle Association, said that despite the Bloomberg administration’s putting a streamlining effort in writing, history showed the city to be a place where "the only people who get licenses are the rich and famous.” Alan Gura, the lead counsel for the plaintiff in the 2008 case, District of Columbia v. Heller, and a lawyer for residents of Chicago who are challenging its gun-control law, in McDonald v. Chicago, said Mr. Bloomberg’s move "sounds like progress.”





Whether it will protect against legal challenges is unclear, said Ilya Shapiro, a constitutional law scholar at the libertarian Cato Institute. "If the underlying regulations make it hard for someone to qualify for owning a gun, then simplifying the process is an empty action.”
SAF BLASTS BLOOMBERG FOR 'SHAM' RELAXATION OF GUN REGULATIONS





For Immediate Release:   5/18/2010





BELLEVUE, WA – New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s "relaxation” of gun regulations to make them more streamlined in the city is "a lot of flash and very little substance,” the Second Amendment Foundation said today, after carefully studying the new guidelines.





"It is clear to us,” said SAF Executive Vice President Alan M. Gottlieb, "that Mayor Bloomberg is trying to make it appear that his gun regulations are more user-friendly to deflect a potential lawsuit once the Supreme Court rules on our legal action to overturn the handgun ban in Chicago. This tells us that Bloomberg and his legal advisors are convinced the high court will hand down a favorable ruling in the McDonald case, striking down Chicago’s ban and incorporating the Second Amendment to the states via the 14th Amendment.’





Under Bloomberg’s program, licensing requirements will be allegedly streamlined, renewal fees will go down and the application process will be speedier.





"This sounds good on the surface,” Gottlieb observed, "but a little digging reveals that there is only one handgun licensing office in the entire city, in Manhattan. There is only one office for registering and licensing rifles and shotguns in the entire city, and that office is in Queens. The handgun application fee is $340, and there is a $94.25 fingerprinting fee on top of that. This fee structure screams ‘for elites only’ because those fees are outrageously expensive for average citizens.





"Adding insult to injury,” he continued, "this is only to keep a handgun in your home or business. To get a carry permit, you still have to prove a ‘need.’ Mayor Bloomberg, it’s not the Bill of Needs, it’s the Bill of Rights.”





Even Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, told the New York Times that Bloomberg is relaxing the rules because the current regulations will not be defensible under an affirmative ruling in the McDonald case, Gottlieb noted.





"Mayor Bloomberg is right to think he needs to relax gun regulations in New York City,” Gottlieb said. "He is also right to think that SAF just might come knocking with a lawsuit after our case against Chicago is decided. But he is wrong to think these sham rules are going to mollify gun owners, or fool us into giving him a pass.”





The Second Amendment Foundation (www.saf.org) is the nation's oldest and largest tax-exempt education, research, publishing and legal action group focusing on the Constitutional right and heritage to privately own and possess firearms. Founded in 1974, The Foundation has grown to more than 650,000 members and supporters and conducts many programs designed to better inform the public about the consequences of gun control. SAF has previously funded successful firearms-related suits against the cities of Los Angeles; New Haven, CT; and San Francisco on behalf of American gun owners, a lawsuit against the cities suing gun makers and an amicus brief and fund for the Emerson case holding the Second Amendment as an individual right.

 

Skip the hearing and just use Bloomberg's definition of "good moral character" which is:



"Anyone without political connections or celebrity status  sufficient  to my satisfaction is obviously "not of good moral character"  and therefore will be denied a NYC pistol license.

 

Well I still can't find the proposed licensing rule changes. There is nothing listed on the NYC rules website so how is it possible to prepare comments on non-existent rule changes?  





My favorite rule to date is the requirement when moving out-of-state to notify the "local authorities" in your new jurisdiction and have them verify that you're still in possession of your NYC registered handguns.  





§ 5-27 Cancellation of the Handgun License. (a) Anyone cancelling a New York City


Handgun License shall:





...................





(b) If the licensee intends to relocate out of State, the License Division requests


verification from the local authorities of that particular jurisdiction that the licensee has


notified them that s/he is in possession of the handgun listed on her/his N.Y. license.

 

I can just imagine the call from the Cobb County Sheriffs Office to NYC; "concering Mr. Xxxxxx's pistols; ya'll can go fuck yourselves! Have a nice day now."  

placeholder for the AM when I have access to a scanner....



 

Still nothing on the www.nyc.gov/nycrules site.    How do they just ignore the required rules making process?



http://www.nyc.gov/html/nycrules/html/about/process.shtml



 

They makes the rules regarding rules so they can change them anyway they like.  One of the advantages to being a ruler instead of a serf.





 

 
 

Thanks for reminding me to send another check off to NYSRPA political action group.

All kidding aside how do they get away with this nonsense?  This doesn't fall under the special rules for exigent circumstances or other exception to the rules making procedures and doesn't comply with Bloomberg's executive order.



http://www.nyc.gov/html/nycrules/downloads/pdf/executive_order_133.pdf
NEW YORK CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT
Notice of Opportunity to Comment on Proposed Rule Amendment Pursuant



to Charter Sections 434(b) and 1043
NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN PURSUANT TO THE AUTHORITY VESTED IN the New



York City Police Department by Sections 434(b) and 1043 of the New



York City Charter that the New York City Police Department intends to



adopt amendments to its rules pertaining to Handgun Licenses,



Rifle/Shotgun Permits and Organizations Possessing Rifles and Shotguns.
Written comments regarding these amendments may be sent to the office



of the Deputy Commissioner, Legal Matters, One Police Plaza, Room



1406, New York, New York 10038, on or before September 15,



2010.  Members of the public may also submit comments on the rule



electronically through NYC RULES at http://www.nyc.gov/nycrules.  A public



hearing will be held on September 22, 2010, from 11:00 AM to 1:00 PM,



at One Police Plaza, 1st Floor Auditorium, New York, New York



10038.  Persons seeking to testify are requested to notify the Deputy



Commissioner, Legal Matters at the foregoing address.  Persons who



request that a sign language interpreter or other form of reasonable



accommodation for a disability be provided at the hearing are asked



to notify the Deputy Commissioner, Legal Matters at the foregoing



address by September 15, 2010.  Written comments and a summary of



oral comments received at the hearing will be available for public



inspection, within a reasonable time after receipt, between the hours



of 9:00 AM and 5:00 PM at the office of the Deputy Commissioner,



Legal Matters.  This proposed rule did not appear in the Department's



regulatory agenda because promulgation of the rule was not



anticipated at the time of publication of said agenda.

 

So what's the story, how much longer do you have to deal with Bloomy?  When the next election?

Election?  How about his health?  For some reason it's always the worst ones that end up living to be 90 or more.

He is in the first year of his third four-year term so he has three more years.  Of course, there might be some "crisis" that causes the city council to again extend term limits and give him the opportunity to run for yet another term.  Hell, if Chicagoan's can keep electing Daley's why can't New Yorker's keep electing Bloomie



 

Well it looks like the NYPD finally complied with the rule making procedure and published the proposed rule changes.



Read it and weep. Some of these rule changes are outrageous.



http://www.nyc.gov/html/nycrules/downloads/rules/p_nypd_09_03_10_a.pdf

My personal favorite.  

"shall each be required to sign an acknowledgment that s/he shall be responsible for compliance with all laws, rules, regulations, standards, and procedures promulgated by federal, state, or local jurisdictions, and by federal, state, or local law enforcement agencies"

Basically their next move will be to "promulgate" a "rule, standard or procedure" whereby they (NYPD) has the right to request that they enter your home for a spot check w/o notice and if you refuse entry you will be in violation of their rule/procedure and standard for spot inspection thus allowing them to strip you of your permit/weapons.  

Pretty much this is the pre-amble for stripping anyone they want of their 2nd A rights w/o the need for codification based in law by the NY State Legislature or NYC Council.  I could see them during a fishing expedition of your background to require you to sign a HIPPA waiver so they can get your medical records and drug prescriptions filled by you or a family member.  

They pretty much want you to sign that you will abide by any arcane rule or requirement they come up with in existence now or in the future even if it clearly violates your 2nd or 4th Amendment rights.  

How about being involved in "one or more domestic violence incident".  What does that mean?  Under the current broadened definition of domestic violence, if your Brother in Law comes to your house and assaults you "one or more times" are they implying they can strip you of or deny you access to firearms?  

How about this one––- your ex-wife/baby Momma has visitation of your kids and fails to return them as enumerated in a Family Court Order of Visitation.  Does dialing 911 and requesting a DIR aka DCJS 3221 be completed mean you have been "involved in one or more incidents of domestic violence"?  

This crap is so broadly written that if you have a business dispute and get a civil judgment against you as a result of that business dispute they can deny or revoke your 2nd A rights.  This pretty much opens the door for them to compel you to provide access to your credit report to "prove" that you are not behind on any payments.  

Hell, I'm surprised they don't require you to provide a letter from NYC Parking Violations Bureau showing that you don't have now, nor have ever had one or more outstanding parking tickets.

WTF?



Any other state and there would be pitch forks and torches at 1PP and City Hall.

If you don't have any parking tickets, is that a plus for your case? What about overdrafts on your bank card or checking account? If you get overdraft protection, can you avoid any negatives in the permit process?

What about insurance? If you have only the state minimum, can they hold  that against you that you don't care enough about your fellow man to provide full coverage? What about if you are a terrible tipper? If you routinely give 10% tips, does that show evidence of "bad moral character?" If you complain about your elected officials, does that make you a bad citizen of the city of New York?

What if you are taking a bath and you forget to wash behind your ears? Poor hygiene, is that grounds for rejection? Don't floss enough? Rejected!

What if you use words like "promulgated" in written documents? Pretentious ass? Approved!

Wow, that is clever indeed!  Could such a requirement hold up under strict scrutiny?  Requiring one to sign away their rights in order to exercise their rights sounds unconstitutional but they have been doing this cr_p for so long, they may be onto something





 

Hey, I thought that the whole "rule change" thing was to make it easier for the residents to obtain permits... Guess not. What a bunch of crap! I can't wait to leave the city.

I went through the so-called "changes". There's nothing new in them. The only thing that had changed is a requirement to notarize all documents. Now one doesn't have to do it. Other than that - nothing!

I don't think the NYC rules will stand up to any kind of scrutiny. I hope the Supreme Court strikes them down with furious anger.

No, this is not the "only" change. An important change is wherein you are no longer disqualified from having a permit if you are the recipient of a order of protection.

In years past, SOME FOLKS (not all) had their permits denied if they had previously filed an OP against someone else, and I have heard of one person whose permit was revoked (and guns confiscated - but he was later allowed to sell/move them out of state) when he filed an OP against his soon to be ex-wife (she did not counter file an OP).





3.03, part F



(f) The applicant is the subject [or recipient] of an order of protection or a temporary order of protection.



 

Actually quite a few things changed for the worse. Go back and read it again.





New material is indicated by underlining. Deletions are indicated by [brackets].





 

Maybe if the dopes used the correct terminology (along with the proper definitions defined) it would be possible to understand what the rule actually means.


 

Rkbar15,

I have gone through the file reading the underlined words. I see nothing that changed for worse. It looks to me like everything stayed the same.

Can you point out the things that in your opinion had changed for worse?

Do you really want to risk me having a stroke. Remember this is just the proposed rules change. We'll have to wait and see what the final version looks like.



In any case I think it's a virtual guarantee that some of this nonsense (if it makes the final cut) will eventually get struck down as unconstitutional. Do these pinheads really think having unpaid parking tickets or a less than perfect employment history are constitutional grounds to deny an individual and fundamental right to possess a firearm/long gun in the City of NY?





 

Actually they do.  A close friend of mine was denied his NYC premise permit approx a year ago because of a cell phone ticket while driving and a suspension of his license because of that ticket (he missed his court date).  Thanks to the help of a great unnamed person in the NY forum, he was able to appeal and get the permit.  Looks like NYPD is looking to make sure there is no way around this now.

 

Pathetic.



 

http://www.queenscourier.com/articles/2010/10/19/news/top_stories/doc4cbdb976b7778188550769.txt
Halloran eyes gun licensing rule change