I'm building an AR pistol currently and the schockwave thread raised a question. If Texas law does not permit the use of a short barreled firearm, would it be unlawful to have an AR pistol with a greater than 26" overall length and a VFG?

AR pistol is neither a rifle or a shotgun... So it's not a short barreled firearm. Texas law does not talk about a vertical grip on a pistol, but federal law does and placing that on a pistol would make it an AOW I believe.

An AR pistol can be any length, but it can't have a stock or a VFG. A VFG makes it a SBR just like adding a stock would.

As to texas law, having a tax stamp is an affirmative defense to having a short barreled firearm. 

The law does not expressly say that it is an affirmative defense but it does read that way. Would be nice if they would add that verbiage in.

I know of one DA that does not know the difference from a pistol and a short barrel rifle when viewing an evil looking AK pistol.

IT got stopped at the grand Jury level.  Someone on that jury had one just like it.

Don't ever turn down Jury duty.  You just might come in handy.

Later an ADA told me she did not care that all guns should be illegal.

And there is the problem with today's legal system. Prosecutors and Judges that are ruling on feelings and not the law.

Guys, some of the above information has changed in recent years.

Previously in Texas,NFA items were technically "illegal" with proper ATF tax stamps as proof of legal ownership under Federal law as an affirmative defense to prosecution (but not from arrest or "show me your papers" demands from Texas LE).

Texas Senate Bill 473, passed in 2015 and taking effective 9/1/2015, changed the wording of that to reflect that NFA items are in fact legal under Texas law.

Also, to clarify on the AR "pistol". Under Federal law and ATF interpretation, an AR without a stock but longer than 26" is neither a pistol nor a rifle. A rifle must be designed to fire from the shoulder (no stock = no shouldering) and pistols must be able to be concealed (the 26" length requirement). A 26.5" long AR with a pistol buffer tube meets neither definition, and thus falls under the general category of "firearm". A vertical foregrip is only forbidden on pistols, not firearms, and thus would be allowed on a 26.5" pistol-buffer AR "firearm".

As far as I can tell, Texas law doesn't further clarify the definition of rifle or pistol, beyond stating that a handgun "means any firearm that is designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one hand." Given that a 26.5" AR with a vertical grip doesn't meet the Federal definition of pistol and has 2 grips, I think it would be hard to make a case that it is designed to be fired with one hand.

But there is nothing stopping an uninformed LEO or DA from making it a painful process to prove you're legal.

You can't turn down Jury duty.... at least not in my experience

I understand that people are busy, but don't try to get out of jury duty.  The jury system is vitally important to folks in either criminal cases or civil cases.  The right to trial by jury is guaranteed for both, and it's the litigants' right to have, and the jurors' duty to be, another check on government power.  Go do your part to make sure the judiciary is getting it right.  

Ok, off my soapbox now 

I had jury duty 3 weeks ago, pretty sure the DA crossed me off the list... defendant had a shitty lawyer too.

So it's ok to have an AR with a pistol tube and VFG if it's OAL is 26", but not in TX?

IIRC, a pistol with a vertical grip makes it an AOW.

Not exactly. If it is a pistol that is 26" or longer, it becomes a "firearm" when a VFG is installed.

Guys, there is a whole lot of misinformation in this thread and it could land someone in jail.

1) The Texas laws concerning NFA items changed in 2015.

Previously, they were technically illegal and the law allowed for your ATF tax stamp to be used as an "affirmative defense". A defense to prosecution still means you can be arrested, jailed, charged, and have your property confiscated as evidence until your case goes to trial, having to spend big money on lawyers along the way. An affirmative defense only protects you from being convicted, it does NOT protect you from anything up to the point of conviction. Basically, you were guilty until proven innocent.

In 2015, the Texas Senate passed Senate Bill 473, changing the wording of the law to make them fully legal. There is no longer an affirmative defense, because you don't need one,  because NFA items are now legal under Texas law.

2) An AR-15 pattern weapon with a pistol buffer (no stock) and a length over 26" is NOT a pistol OR a rifle under Federal law and/or ATF rulings. A pistol must have a length under 26" and a rifle must be able to be shouldered, the described gun does not qualify for either. It then falls under the generic definition of "Title II Firearm".

It's not law, but ATF rules state that a pistol with a vertical foregrip is classified as an "Any Other Weapon" (AOW) and is subject to all the associated NFA regulations. A 26" stock-less AR "firearm" is not a pistol and thus adding a VFG does not constitute an AOW.

Texas law does NOT clarify the definition of a handgun beyond "designed to be fired with one hand" and the criteria for that description has no legal precedent that I can find. Texas is under no obligation to follow or even consider the federal definition for state charges. I wouldn't want to be the first one trying to argue my way around that.

I can envision a scenario in which you get yourself into trouble with the above-described "firearm" configuration, if you put one of the trendy stabilizer braces on it. The braces are explicitly sold as arm braces to allow the disabled to shoot the weapon one-handed, and the DA would definitely argue that makes your 26" AR a "handgun" under Texas law. You could wind up with your weapon considered a "firearm" under Federal law and a "handgun" under Texas law.

If it's 26" or longer, then it's already a "firearm" and not a "pistol", with or without the VFG. See my post above.

Wrong.
There is no maximum bbl length or OAL on a pistol. You could have a 32" bbl and an OAL of 87" and as long as it meets the definition of pistol.........it's a pistol.
§478.11   Meaning of terms.
Pistol. A weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s).

This is important because a pistol may be concealed, but concealing a "firearm" (that is not a handgun, rifle or shotgun).........makes that firearm an AOW.
§479.11   Meaning of terms.
Any other weapon. Any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

I'm in agreeance with Dogtown on this.

I have a VFG on my 28" OAL AR pistol which is a firearm that I cannot conceal. Not really worried about it at all. It's a fungun and a SHTF gun.

Used to roll with a 11.5" AR "pistol" with a Magpul AFG on it. I miss that thing.

Ah, I see what you're saying now.

After further review, I was incorrect on some points.

An AR pistol with a length of >26" is still an AR pistol under Federal law. If you add a VFG, it becomes a "firearm" under the ATF clarification letters issued because it is no longer a pistol under the "firing with 1 hand" pistol definition stipulation. Pistols can be concealed, "firearms" cannot. I still find the ATF letters odd, as adding a VFG to a pistol under their normal guidelines constitutes an AOW and, as you stated, there is no maximum length defined for a pistol. Instead of pistol + VFG = AOW, they've chosen to allow the special case of 26+" pistol + VFG = not a pistol anymore.

I do want to reiterate that Texas law does not draw distinctions between firearm types like the Feds do, and is under no obligation to follow Federal precedent. As far as I can tell, no case in Texas has tried this issue, and so we have no Texas state precedent. I would still not want to be the 1st person in Texas court arguing that my concealed 28" stock-less AR is a pistol under Federal law and chancing the judge may interpret that differently.

This was several years ago and I was asked if I would serve.

Now grand jury is picked the same way as any other from what I have been told.

You can damn sure turn it down.

By not going
By the way you answer question.
By throwing the notice in the trash, it is not registered mail.
Etc.
Many ways to get out of it even if you do go.
That's why they pick alternates if one has to drop out.
I loved it 26 weeks from 5- 12 hours every Monday from 40- 140 cases every Monday.