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Posted: 7/19/2016 9:27:34 AM EDT
So hypothetical situation, your sitting behind a BLM protest that has stopped all traffic on a major highway in Texas.

Whats the legality of using pepper spray or bear mace on them to get through?  

I'm sure its illegal as shit, but it makes a nice fantasy.....
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 10:10:11 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
So hypothetical situation, your sitting behind a BLM protest that has stopped all traffic on a major highway in Texas.

Whats the legality of using pepper spray or bear mace on them to get through?  

I'm sure its illegal as shit, but it makes a nice fantasy.....
View Quote


it is illegal to block a roadway.  Look up false restraint in the penal code.  The look up the use of force laws in section 9.31.  See if in that situation force would be justified.
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 10:48:50 AM EDT
[#2]
Texas Penal Code § 42.03. Obstructing Highway or Other Passageway

(a) A person commits an offense if, without legal privilege or authority, he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly:
(1) obstructs a highway, street, sidewalk, railway, waterway, elevator, aisle, hallway, entrance, or exit to which the public or a substantial group of the public has access, or any other place used for the passage of persons, vehicles, or conveyances, regardless of the means of creating the obstruction and whether the obstruction arises from his acts alone or from his acts and the acts of others; ?or
(2) disobeys a reasonable request or order to move issued by a person the actor knows to be or is informed is a peace officer, a fireman, or a person with authority to control the use of the premises:
(A) to prevent obstruction of a highway or any of those areas mentioned in Subdivision (1); ?or
(B) to maintain public safety by dispersing those gathered in dangerous proximity to a fire, riot, or other hazard.
(b) For purposes of this section, “obstruct” means to render impassable or to render passage unreasonably inconvenient or hazardous.
(c) An offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor.
- See more at: http://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-42-03.html#sthash.f15eNsB8.dpuf


SUBCHAPTER C. PROTECTION OF PERSONS

Sec. 9.31.  SELF-DEFENSE.  (a)  Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force.  The actor's belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
(1)  knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:
(A)  unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
(B)  unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
(C)  was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery;
(2)  did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and
(3)  was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.
(b)  The use of force against another is not justified:
(1)  in response to verbal provocation alone;


I'm not a lawyer, but my quick review would be that you cannot pepper spray someone blocking the road unless they try to remove you from your vehicle.

I'd like to be wrong.
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 10:50:37 AM EDT
[#3]
Is this still happening after the Nice, France thing?
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 10:54:54 AM EDT
[#4]
I question the legality of possessing bear spray in Texas because of the following definition:

Sec. 46.01.  DEFINITIONS.  In this chapter:
...
(14)  "Chemical dispensing device" means a device, other than a small chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection, that is designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of dispensing a substance capable of causing an adverse psychological or physiological effect on a human being.
View Quote

Bear spray is definitely a "chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection", but you might have trouble arguing an 8+ ounce container is "small".  
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 11:00:50 AM EDT
[#5]
I agree, can't pepper spray them just for that as none LE. But if they try and get into your vehicle then it's fair game.

Now, it would be fun to go after them with the MK-46!
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 11:05:03 AM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I question the legality of possessing bear spray in Texas because of the following definition:


Bear spray is definitely a "chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection", but you might have trouble arguing an 8+ ounce container is "small".  
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I question the legality of possessing bear spray in Texas because of the following definition:

Sec. 46.01.  DEFINITIONS.  In this chapter:
...
(14)  "Chemical dispensing device" means a device, other than a small chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection, that is designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of dispensing a substance capable of causing an adverse psychological or physiological effect on a human being.

Bear spray is definitely a "chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection", but you might have trouble arguing an 8+ ounce container is "small".  


Another ambiguous law we don't need. If you don't want people to have containers larger than 2 or 4 oz, just say 2 oz or whatever, but in a state where you license people to carry handguns and automatic knives, what's the point? Same with clubs and straight knives. It's as bad as the campus carry law.

I don't really have a need for the handheld sprays, but I'd love to be able to legally use a fogger in some storage buildings we have.
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 1:15:05 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I question the legality of possessing bear spray in Texas because of the following definition:


Bear spray is definitely a "chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection", but you might have trouble arguing an 8+ ounce container is "small".  
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I question the legality of possessing bear spray in Texas because of the following definition:

Sec. 46.01.  DEFINITIONS.  In this chapter:
...
(14)  "Chemical dispensing device" means a device, other than a small chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection, that is designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of dispensing a substance capable of causing an adverse psychological or physiological effect on a human being.

Bear spray is definitely a "chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection", but you might have trouble arguing an 8+ ounce container is "small".  



My wife told me a while back they had some trouble at her work and they used one of the larger units that look like a fire extinguisher.  Since it's available, and quite a bit larger, I'd say bear spray is in a small container.  If it's designed to be used with one hand, it's a small container.

If you ever end up in court over this, tell the judge, if you want the definition of small, look between your legs.  
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 2:59:47 PM EDT
[#8]
What do you think would happen when you ran out of spray?
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 3:26:08 PM EDT
[#9]
Well if you run out and they charge you and put you in danger you pull out the AR and see how fast you can empty the 100 round drum :)
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 3:27:18 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 3:29:25 PM EDT
[#11]
.....don't stop.
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 3:50:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Nothing requires you to stop.
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 4:50:42 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History


Well there you go, police don't want you to use non-lethal force. Go buy a gun.
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 5:21:06 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Nothing requires you to stop.
View Quote



Link Posted: 7/19/2016 5:54:04 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Nothing requires you to stop.
View Quote



Possible assault charge?  Your vehicle becomes a weapon. Use of deadly force is not justified.
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 6:17:35 PM EDT
[#16]
Suicide by traffic.   God bless 4 wheel drive.
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 7:30:55 PM EDT
[#17]
Personally I would not get out of my vehicle because you don't know what the protesters may have and you become the first victim… Or hostage.
Pepper spray or bear spray on an unruly mob is not going to last you very long…

Same thing I told my wife if these idiots block you on the highway or even an intersection, you simply push through them with your car.
If It gets damaged in the process, no big deal.
It would be very easy to articulate that one felt in fear for their safety and well-being given the level of violence we have had in Dallas.

Example: Reginald Denny - LA riots
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 8:15:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
So hypothetical situation, your sitting behind a BLM protest that has stopped all traffic on a major highway in Texas.

Whats the legality of using pepper spray or bear mace on them to get through?  

I'm sure its illegal as shit, but it makes a nice fantasy.....
View Quote


The person that got sprayed would have to admit to committing an offense in order to press charges.  In addition to 42.03 Obstructing Highway you likely also have 42.02 Riot and a couple of traffic charges.

If there are 7 or more people blocking the road they aren't protesters, they are rioters.

Sec. 42.02.  RIOT.  (a)  For the purpose of this section, "riot" means the assemblage of seven or more persons resulting in conduct which:
(1)  creates an immediate danger of damage to property or injury to persons;
(2)  substantially obstructs law enforcement or other governmental functions or services;  or
(3)  by force, threat of force, or physical action deprives any person of a legal right or disturbs any person in the enjoyment of a legal right.
(b)  A person commits an offense if he knowingly participates in a riot.
(c)  It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the assembly was at first lawful and when one of those assembled manifested an intent to engage in conduct enumerated in Subsection (a), the actor retired from the assembly.
(d)  It is no defense to prosecution under this section that another who was a party to the riot has been acquitted, has not been arrested, prosecuted, or convicted, has been convicted of a different offense or of a different type or class of offense, or is immune from prosecution.
(e)  Except as provided in Subsection (f), an offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor.
(f)  An offense under this section is an offense of the same classification as any offense of a higher grade committed by anyone engaged in the riot if the offense was:
(1)  in the furtherance of the purpose of the assembly
;  or
(2)  an offense which should have been anticipated as a result of the assembly.



Sec. 552.005.  CROSSING AT POINT OTHER THAN CROSSWALK.  (a)  A pedestrian shall yield the right-of-way to a vehicle on the highway if crossing a roadway at a place:
(1)  other than in a marked crosswalk or in an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection
;  or
(2)  where a pedestrian tunnel or overhead pedestrian crossing has been provided.
(b)  Between adjacent intersections at which traffic control signals are in operation, a pedestrian may cross only in a marked crosswalk.
(c)  A pedestrian may cross a roadway intersection diagonally only if and in the manner authorized by a traffic control device.


Sec. 552.006.  USE OF SIDEWALK.  (a) A pedestrian may not walk along and on a roadway if an adjacent sidewalk is provided and is accessible to the pedestrian.
(b)  If a sidewalk is not provided, a pedestrian walking along and on a highway shall if possible walk on:
(1)  the left side of the roadway;  or
(2)  the shoulder of the highway facing oncoming traffic.

(c)  The operator of a vehicle emerging from or entering an alley, building, or private road or driveway shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian approaching on a sidewalk extending across the alley, building entrance or exit, road, or driveway.
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 8:40:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Texas Penal Code § 42.03. Obstructing Highway or Other Passageway

(a) A person commits an offense if, without legal privilege or authority, he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly:
(1) obstructs a highway, street, sidewalk, railway, waterway, elevator, aisle, hallway, entrance, or exit to which the public or a substantial group of the public has access, or any other place used for the passage of persons, vehicles, or conveyances, regardless of the means of creating the obstruction and whether the obstruction arises from his acts alone or from his acts and the acts of others; ?or
(2) disobeys a reasonable request or order to move issued by a person the actor knows to be or is informed is a peace officer, a fireman, or a person with authority to control the use of the premises:
(A) to prevent obstruction of a highway or any of those areas mentioned in Subdivision (1); ?or
(B) to maintain public safety by dispersing those gathered in dangerous proximity to a fire, riot, or other hazard.
(b) For purposes of this section, “obstruct” means to render impassable or to render passage unreasonably inconvenient or hazardous.
(c) An offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor.
- See more at: http://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-42-03.html#sthash.f15eNsB8.dpuf


SUBCHAPTER C. PROTECTION OF PERSONS

Sec. 9.31.  SELF-DEFENSE.  (a)  Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force.  The actor's belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
(1)  knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:
(A)  unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
(B)  unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
(C)  was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery;
(2)  did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and
(3)  was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.
(b)  The use of force against another is not justified:
(1)  in response to verbal provocation alone;


I'm not a lawyer, but my quick review would be that you cannot pepper spray someone blocking the road unless they try to remove you from your vehicle.

I'd like to be wrong.
View Quote


Looks like 9.31 c 3 would allow it, since they were engaged in criminal activity other than a  C misdemenor or traffic regulation
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 8:53:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Looks like 9.31 c 3 would allow it, since they were engaged in criminal activity other than a  C misdemenor or traffic regulation
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Texas Penal Code § 42.03. Obstructing Highway or Other Passageway

(a) A person commits an offense if, without legal privilege or authority, he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly:
(1) obstructs a highway, street, sidewalk, railway, waterway, elevator, aisle, hallway, entrance, or exit to which the public or a substantial group of the public has access, or any other place used for the passage of persons, vehicles, or conveyances, regardless of the means of creating the obstruction and whether the obstruction arises from his acts alone or from his acts and the acts of others; ?or
(2) disobeys a reasonable request or order to move issued by a person the actor knows to be or is informed is a peace officer, a fireman, or a person with authority to control the use of the premises:
(A) to prevent obstruction of a highway or any of those areas mentioned in Subdivision (1); ?or
(B) to maintain public safety by dispersing those gathered in dangerous proximity to a fire, riot, or other hazard.
(b) For purposes of this section, “obstruct” means to render impassable or to render passage unreasonably inconvenient or hazardous.
(c) An offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor.
- See more at: http://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-42-03.html#sthash.f15eNsB8.dpuf


SUBCHAPTER C. PROTECTION OF PERSONS

Sec. 9.31.  SELF-DEFENSE.  (a)  Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force.  The actor's belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
(1)  knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:
(A)  unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
(B)  unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
(C)  was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery;
(2)  did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and
(3)  was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.
(b)  The use of force against another is not justified:
(1)  in response to verbal provocation alone;


I'm not a lawyer, but my quick review would be that you cannot pepper spray someone blocking the road unless they try to remove you from your vehicle.

I'd like to be wrong.


Looks like 9.31 c 3 would allow it, since they were engaged in criminal activity other than a  C misdemenor or traffic regulation

9.31 c3 references the person who uses force in self defense.  

Link Posted: 7/19/2016 9:45:50 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

9.31 c3 references the person who uses force in self defense.  

View Quote



that's what a quick skim gets me
Link Posted: 7/20/2016 2:37:51 PM EDT
[#22]

I would think that in Texas it would depend on whether or not I could articulate my perception of 'my life being in jeopardy' as to whether I'd squirt the fuckers.






Whether or not you have an avenue of escape isn't really a legal consideration in Texas, but I'm sure it would have a bearing on if charges would be filed or an arrest made.

 
Link Posted: 7/20/2016 5:25:01 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Whats the legality of using pepper spray or bear mace on them to get through?  
View Quote

This thread has me wondering about the legality of turning around and driving the other way on the shoulder in a situation like this.  
Link Posted: 7/21/2016 9:52:38 AM EDT
[#24]
Another though...what about smokes instead of CS?

You can get some pull ignitor smokes fairly cheap, Enolagay.com has some that have the same capacity as an M18 military smoke.  Toss a couple of those, they think its CS or worse and maybe they scatter?
Link Posted: 7/21/2016 10:20:51 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Nothing requires you to stop.
View Quote


I don't need pepper spray when I am in my truck
Link Posted: 7/21/2016 10:42:35 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What do you think would happen when you ran out of spray?
View Quote



Have to go with this......  Don't for one second think any type of commercially available OC spray(including bear spray) will stop everyone in their tracks.  I've been hit with 2mil SHU's OC, and it burned like the devil himself pissed in my face and eyes...   I have seen quite a few folks whom it practically had little to no reaction from it.  And let's not forget folks who had a reaction like mine(gets better after friendly fire exposures ) that the fight or flight reaction will kick in 10
Fold.  And in my experience, it's the fight instinct that kicks in, and makes the fight worse which is why I don't carry the shit anymore...
Link Posted: 7/23/2016 6:09:45 PM EDT
[#28]
What if you had a pepper balls out of a paintball gun
Link Posted: 7/24/2016 9:42:40 PM EDT
[#29]
I've often wondered how useful blanks would be in such a situation.
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