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Posted: 12/22/2015 12:54:19 AM EDT
[#1]
got pulled over by a Sommerville County Sheriff coming home from the ranch one day last year.
"Reason I stopped you, you don't have a front license plate... is that a LaRue in the back?" "yes it is" "i love mine, well just fyi the law changed and you need one now... have a nice day" didn't even check my id or anything. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 5:36:47 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also, I was not aware that precedent had been set that the front plate couldnt be visible on the dashboard. Last I heard a circuit court, in their stupidity, found no probable cause on a case where a cop stopped somebody for a plate under the front windshield and made an arrest for something else. FWIW I think the front of the vehicle is the front of the vehicle and the plate on the dashboard is a vioation too. http://caselaw.findlaw.com/tx-court-of-criminal-appeals/1538320.html |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 7:45:55 PM EDT
[#3]
If it's the look you don't like, there are a number of solutions used to mount plates under the front bumper that can slide out and up while driving. Several of them are even electric motor driven and switched from the inside. They were initially developed for using at car shows for a cleaner look. I know guys who have forgotten to put the plate back up and gotten pulled over, but no tickets once they explained that they just forgot. If my mustang didn't have holes in the front bumper already when I bought it, I might have gotten one of these set-ups to keep it clean.
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Posted: 12/23/2015 12:07:41 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually, that's not entirely true. Back in 2012 the penalty for driving without a front plate was removed from the Transportation Code. For over a year and a half you could drive without a front plate and not run the risk of being fined for it. Unfortunately, in September 2013 they changed it back. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
ETA: The law hasn't changed back and forth. A bill was introduced and was passed by one side, then the other side stripped the front license plate from the bill and replaced it with some education nonsense and passed that bill. We were close, but the law never changed. Actually, that's not entirely true. Back in 2012 the penalty for driving without a front plate was removed from the Transportation Code. For over a year and a half you could drive without a front plate and not run the risk of being fined for it. Unfortunately, in September 2013 they changed it back. It wasn't just the front plate. It was both plates. It was debatable what the consequences were during that time for not displaying license plates. I'm not aware of any appellate court decisions on the matter. The Attorney General was asked for an opinion, but the requester withdrew his request before the AG issued an opinion. No reason was given, but my guess it that he feared an opinion stating no plates were required. Without court decisions there were several ways it could have gone; 1) it was a violation of the law and therefore you could be stopped, cited, or arrested, but there was no actual penalty (fine), 2) it was an offense without a fine, but court costs would still apply (about $60 if I remember correctly), 3) it was a class C misdemeanor and the fine could have been the full $500 instead of the usual maximum of $200 for most traffic offenses. It was clearly still an offense because the law said it was, but the penalty (if any) was unclear. We will never know how it would have played out if someone challenged being charged with the offense at the time. Quoted:
Quoted:
Also, I was not aware that precedent had been set that the front plate couldnt be visible on the dashboard. Last I heard a circuit court, in their stupidity, found no probable cause on a case where a cop stopped somebody for a plate under the front windshield and made an arrest for something else. FWIW I think the front of the vehicle is the front of the vehicle and the plate on the dashboard is a vioation too. http://caselaw.findlaw.com/tx-court-of-criminal-appeals/1538320.html The Spence case (which said having the plate on the dashboard was not legal) ceased being the controlling case when they later changed and clarified the statute and placement rules. The statute cited in Spence, 502.404, no longer has anything to do with license plates, but the case is still a good read on how they came to a decision on the placement of the front plate and the reference to Hogan's Heroes and Colonel Klink is hilarious in a court decision. Current statute requiring plates and the penalty Transportation Code 504.943 Placement of the plates Texas Administrative Code 217.27(b) |
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Posted: 12/23/2015 10:10:02 AM EDT
[#5]
I went years without a front plate on both of our cars.
I got pulled over by DPS once and received a written warning. I finally decided I might as well put the plate back on my F150 as there was a large hole in the bumper so it actually looks better with the plate on. This is something we need to talk to our TX legislature about lets apply pressure to move to just one plate like Louisiana. If we couch the argument that it is good for the environment then how can they refuse!! |
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Posted: 12/23/2015 12:16:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I went years without a front plate on both of our cars. I got pulled over by DPS once and received a written warning. I finally decided I might as well put the plate back on my F150 as there was a large hole in the bumper so it actually looks better with the plate on. This is something we need to talk to our TX legislature about lets apply pressure to move to just one plate like Louisiana. If we couch the argument that it is good for the environment then how can they refuse!! Doubtful the LE lobby would allow this to change. (From my understanding, they were behind the ID requirement with the new OC law.) |
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Posted: 12/23/2015 12:51:20 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Doubtful the LE lobby would allow this to change. (From my understanding, they were behind the ID requirement with the new OC law.) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I went years without a front plate on both of our cars. I got pulled over by DPS once and received a written warning. I finally decided I might as well put the plate back on my F150 as there was a large hole in the bumper so it actually looks better with the plate on. This is something we need to talk to our TX legislature about lets apply pressure to move to just one plate like Louisiana. If we couch the argument that it is good for the environment then how can they refuse!! Doubtful the LE lobby would allow this to change. (From my understanding, they were behind the ID requirement with the new OC law.) You will get pressure from LE groups but I think you will have even more pressure from the Toll authorities and red light camera operators. Two plates doubles your chances of getting a photo of the plate. As an LEO I like the two plate requirement since I know that in some cases witnesses (or cameras) were able to record the license plate number that absent a front plate requirement would have gone unrecorded. I'm a Robbery Detective so I'm not concerned about Traffic enforcement and I have no love for red light cameras. I just want to catch bad guys and two plates on a vehicle have helped in the past. As a citizen, I'm kinda "meh" about them. It's never been an issue for me....I get new plates and I put them both on. Of course all of the vehicles I've owned have come with pre-drilled holes for the front plate so I've never faced that problem. |
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Posted: 12/23/2015 12:55:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You will get pressure from LE groups but I think you will have even more pressure from the Toll authorities and red light camera operators. Two plates doubles your chances of getting a photo of the plate. As an LEO I like the two plate requirement since I know that in some cases witnesses (or cameras) were able to record the license plate number that absent a front plate requirement would have gone unrecorded. I'm a Robbery Detective so I'm not concerned about Traffic enforcement and I have no love for red light cameras. I just want to catch bad guys and two plates on a vehicle have helped in the past. As a citizen, I'm kinda "meh" about them. It's never been an issue for me....I get new plates and I put them both on. Of course all of the vehicles I've owned have come with pre-drilled holes for the front plate so I've never faced that problem. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I went years without a front plate on both of our cars. I got pulled over by DPS once and received a written warning. I finally decided I might as well put the plate back on my F150 as there was a large hole in the bumper so it actually looks better with the plate on. This is something we need to talk to our TX legislature about lets apply pressure to move to just one plate like Louisiana. If we couch the argument that it is good for the environment then how can they refuse!! Doubtful the LE lobby would allow this to change. (From my understanding, they were behind the ID requirement with the new OC law.) You will get pressure from LE groups but I think you will have even more pressure from the Toll authorities and red light camera operators. Two plates doubles your chances of getting a photo of the plate. As an LEO I like the two plate requirement since I know that in some cases witnesses (or cameras) were able to record the license plate number that absent a front plate requirement would have gone unrecorded. I'm a Robbery Detective so I'm not concerned about Traffic enforcement and I have no love for red light cameras. I just want to catch bad guys and two plates on a vehicle have helped in the past. As a citizen, I'm kinda "meh" about them. It's never been an issue for me....I get new plates and I put them both on. Of course all of the vehicles I've owned have come with pre-drilled holes for the front plate so I've never faced that problem. I'm about equal treatment under the law - since motorcycles aren't required to have front plates, neither should other vehicles. That being said, I've never been pulled over for lacking a front plate due to what/where/how/when/who I drive. |
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Posted: 12/23/2015 2:34:42 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Doubtful the LE lobby would allow this to change. (From my understanding, they were behind the ID requirement with the new OC law.) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I went years without a front plate on both of our cars. I got pulled over by DPS once and received a written warning. I finally decided I might as well put the plate back on my F150 as there was a large hole in the bumper so it actually looks better with the plate on. This is something we need to talk to our TX legislature about lets apply pressure to move to just one plate like Louisiana. If we couch the argument that it is good for the environment then how can they refuse!! Doubtful the LE lobby would allow this to change. (From my understanding, they were behind the ID requirement with the new OC law.) I don't remember which session it was (at least 10 years ago) but when a bill was introduced to get rid of the 2-plate requirement I wrote my rep. He replied that the main opponents were DPS and 3M (as the supplier of reflective material on the plates). I would imagine they are still opponents. |
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Posted: 12/24/2015 12:47:54 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Negative, every road 9mm Texas is considered a highway. Not just "highways." So what car are you driving that your front plate is going to impact the performance of it? I didn't "booger up" anything on my car. I mounted my front plate with four heavy duty black zip ties. Works perfectly, doesn't leave a mark. ETA: The law hasn't changed back and forth. A bill was introduced and was passed by one side, then the other side stripped the front license plate from the bill and replaced it with some education nonsense and passed that bill. We were close, but the law never changed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Interesting. So the only time you'd even have to worry about getting pulled over for it would be on an interstate or highway. Negative, every road 9mm Texas is considered a highway. Not just "highways." So what car are you driving that your front plate is going to impact the performance of it? I didn't "booger up" anything on my car. I mounted my front plate with four heavy duty black zip ties. Works perfectly, doesn't leave a mark. ETA: The law hasn't changed back and forth. A bill was introduced and was passed by one side, then the other side stripped the front license plate from the bill and replaced it with some education nonsense and passed that bill. We were close, but the law never changed. Actually, that's not what happened. The 2 plate law was passed many years ago. Then, the legislature moved some of the laws around in the transportation code (to include the license plate law), but where they moved it to did not have a catch all "penalty" for every offense in that section. Therefore, no penalty, no offense. It was quickly corrected in the next session and for the most part, people never knew. During that interim period, however, many shady dealers told people that the law had changed and were no longer required to have front LP's. You know what happened to all those people? They got stopped for no front LP as soon as the law was fixed, and tried arguing the "but the dealer said it was okay!" line and probably got tickets. |
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Posted: 12/24/2015 12:49:26 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had a bull bar and light bar on my truck which covered up the place to mount a license plate. I kept my license plate in my side door pocket and whenever I saw a cop burn a u-turn I would throw it in the dash on the passenger side. I was alway polite whenever they came to the window and when they'd say they pulled me over for no front license plate, I'd point to the dash and say that licence plate? Got out of several tickets like that. Now that I don't have that truck and no bull bar, I just run a plate. Never invite the man, especially ones that gives pastors tickets for a license plate light being out.  Actually, they can still cite you if they wanted to and it is still a legal stop. Myth has it that you can put the plate in the dash, or on your visor and it is legal... it is not. Laws are made not only from the lawbook, but also from caselaw. They had a case go to the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals, and they ruled that you must have it on the front most and rear most portion of the vehicle (not the windshield). |
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Posted: 12/24/2015 12:55:17 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Depending on how you have it registered - you may fall under the Classic Car exception. And even if you don't have it registered that way - many police may assume you are. And - i'm guessing you probably don't drive it much - as compared to a normal use vehicle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have not had a front plate on my 34 Ford 3 Window Coupe since it was completed in 2008. I have never been stopped. Vince Depending on how you have it registered - you may fall under the Classic Car exception. And even if you don't have it registered that way - many police may assume you are. And - i'm guessing you probably don't drive it much - as compared to a normal use vehicle. Classic car or not, he has to have the classic car plates to only need one. You can have a Model-T, but if you only registered it like normal, then the classic car front plate exemption would not apply. |
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Posted: 12/24/2015 12:17:15 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You will get pressure from LE groups but I think you will have even more pressure from the Toll authorities and red light camera operators. Two plates doubles your chances of getting a photo of the plate. As an LEO I like the two plate requirement since I know that in some cases witnesses (or cameras) were able to record the license plate number that absent a front plate requirement would have gone unrecorded. I'm a Robbery Detective so I'm not concerned about Traffic enforcement and I have no love for red light cameras. I just want to catch bad guys and two plates on a vehicle have helped in the past. As a citizen, I'm kinda "meh" about them. It's never been an issue for me....I get new plates and I put them both on. Of course all of the vehicles I've owned have come with pre-drilled holes for the front plate so I've never faced that problem. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I went years without a front plate on both of our cars. I got pulled over by DPS once and received a written warning. I finally decided I might as well put the plate back on my F150 as there was a large hole in the bumper so it actually looks better with the plate on. This is something we need to talk to our TX legislature about lets apply pressure to move to just one plate like Louisiana. If we couch the argument that it is good for the environment then how can they refuse!! Doubtful the LE lobby would allow this to change. (From my understanding, they were behind the ID requirement with the new OC law.) You will get pressure from LE groups but I think you will have even more pressure from the Toll authorities and red light camera operators. Two plates doubles your chances of getting a photo of the plate. As an LEO I like the two plate requirement since I know that in some cases witnesses (or cameras) were able to record the license plate number that absent a front plate requirement would have gone unrecorded. I'm a Robbery Detective so I'm not concerned about Traffic enforcement and I have no love for red light cameras. I just want to catch bad guys and two plates on a vehicle have helped in the past. As a citizen, I'm kinda "meh" about them. It's never been an issue for me....I get new plates and I put them both on. Of course all of the vehicles I've owned have come with pre-drilled holes for the front plate so I've never faced that problem. Having recently spent several years in a "One Plate State", they had no trouble issuing tickets, believe me. They just stuck more cameras in the box and fired them in sequence. I got one right before I moved back that had a picture of my face, side of my truck and my rear plate. Hell, you could make out the tattoo on my arm. Arizona did have the caveat that you got to "face" your accuser. If they couldn't ID your face, it got dismissed. Some dude racked up a couple hundred speeding tickets while wearing a gorilla mask before they finally got him. If you "didn't receive" the ticket in the mail, it was also dismissed. AZDPS or the city would send out a process server if you had a couple of tickets "get lost", but as long as you had a garage and didn't get served for 60 or 90 days, it was also dismissed. Been running without a front plate for almost a year. I should really put that thing on. Maybe go see if I can find a 1st ID plate holder for the front and back so I can be "That guy". Wear my vet hat. Demand discounts everywhere.
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Posted: 12/25/2015 4:32:14 AM EDT
[#14]
Antique cars don't require a front plate. Of course you're only supposed to drive it to car shows, parades, club functions, etc. I just got them for my 68 Camaro so we'll see.
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Posted: 12/25/2015 8:20:57 AM EDT
[#15]
Every now & then when I'm driving or riding around Austin, I'll keep track of other vehicles
without front license plates. So far, it has never been less than 10% that do not have a front license plate. I also try to determine if they are out of state or not in order to get a more accurate result. |
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Posted: 12/25/2015 1:45:47 PM EDT
[#16]
I wonder what a Toll road is considered public since one has to pay to use it...and most toll roads are owned by companies.
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Posted: 12/26/2015 12:51:03 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wonder what a Toll road is considered public since one has to pay to use it...and most toll roads are owned by companies. I'm not sure that is necessarily true. I think toll roads are a quasi governmental type organization. I haven't really looked in to it and could be wrong though. |
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Posted: 12/26/2015 1:08:46 AM EDT
[#18]
The front plate law is dumb. The government should weigh any added benefit provided to traffic enforcement against how dumb it makes your car look and how painful it is to drill holes in a perfectly fine car.
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Posted: 12/26/2015 8:24:16 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wonder what a Toll road is considered public since one has to pay to use it...and most toll roads are owned by companies. Toll roads remain public property regardless of who is operating them. Foreign firms have built the roads and have very long term leases to operate them but they do not own them. From the Texas Transportation Code: Sec. 366.405. OWNERSHIP OF TURNPIKE PROJECTS. (a) A turnpike project that is the subject of a comprehensive development agreement with a private entity, including the facilities acquired or constructed on the project, is public property and is owned by the authority. (b) Notwithstanding Subsection (a), an authority may enter into an agreement that provides for the lease of rights-of-way, the granting of easements, the issuance of franchises, licenses, or permits, or any lawful uses to enable a private entity to construct, operate, and maintain a turnpike project, including supplemental facilities. At the termination of the agreement, the turnpike project, including the facilities, are to be in a state of proper maintenance as determined by the authority and shall be returned to the authority in satisfactory condition at no further cost. Added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 264 (S.B. 792), Sec. 9.03, eff. June 11, 2007. |
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Posted: 12/27/2015 3:16:45 PM EDT
[#20]
Been driving for 15yrs never had a front plate never will. Only time pulled over for it on way to Houston at night cop was just fishing and let go with a warning. I hate them they are ugly not putting it on my car.
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Posted: 12/27/2015 3:37:23 PM EDT
[#21]
I've only been stopped once for not having a front plate. By the DPS up near Amarillo while I was driving to SLC for Comic Con. Got a written warning out of it. This was probably 2 1/2 ~ years ago.
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Posted: 1/1/2016 6:03:37 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Depending on how you have it registered - you may fall under the Classic Car exception. And even if you don't have it registered that way - many police may assume you are. And - i'm guessing you probably don't drive it much - as compared to a normal use vehicle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have not had a front plate on my 34 Ford 3 Window Coupe since it was completed in 2008. I have never been stopped. Vince Depending on how you have it registered - you may fall under the Classic Car exception. And even if you don't have it registered that way - many police may assume you are. And - i'm guessing you probably don't drive it much - as compared to a normal use vehicle. Can someone school me on the classic car exception? I drive a 1990 pickup with the front plate but a light bar would look better there if I can get away with it 
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Posted: 1/1/2016 6:56:35 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can someone school me on the classic car exception? I drive a 1990 pickup with the front plate but a light bar would look better there if I can get away with it Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have not had a front plate on my 34 Ford 3 Window Coupe since it was completed in 2008. I have never been stopped. Vince Depending on how you have it registered - you may fall under the Classic Car exception. And even if you don't have it registered that way - many police may assume you are. And - i'm guessing you probably don't drive it much - as compared to a normal use vehicle. Can someone school me on the classic car exception? I drive a 1990 pickup with the front plate but a light bar would look better there if I can get away with it This is what your after: (You have to get the classic car plates and it's not supposed to be your daily driver). Sec. 504.502. CERTAIN EXHIBITION VEHICLES;OFFENSE. (a) The department shall issue specialty license plates for a passenger car, truck, motorcycle, bus, or former military vehicle that: (1) is at least 25 years old, if the vehicle is a passenger car, truck, motorcycle, or bus; (2) is a collector's item; (3) is used exclusively for exhibitions, club activities, parades, and other functions of public interest and is not used for regular transportation; and (4) does not carry advertising. (h) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a vehicle issued license plates under Subsection (a) shall be required to attach and display only one license plate on the rear of the vehicle. |
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Posted: 1/1/2016 8:36:17 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is what your after: (You have to get the classic car plates and it's not supposed to be your daily driver). Sec. 504.502. CERTAIN EXHIBITION VEHICLES;OFFENSE. (a) The department shall issue specialty license plates for a passenger car, truck, motorcycle, bus, or former military vehicle that: (1) is at least 25 years old, if the vehicle is a passenger car, truck, motorcycle, or bus; (2) is a collector's item; (3) is used exclusively for exhibitions, club activities, parades, and other functions of public interest and is not used for regular transportation; and (4) does not carry advertising. (h) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a vehicle issued license plates under Subsection (a) shall be required to attach and display only one license plate on the rear of the vehicle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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I have not had a front plate on my 34 Ford 3 Window Coupe since it was completed in 2008. I have never been stopped. Vince Depending on how you have it registered - you may fall under the Classic Car exception. And even if you don't have it registered that way - many police may assume you are. And - i'm guessing you probably don't drive it much - as compared to a normal use vehicle. Can someone school me on the classic car exception? I drive a 1990 pickup with the front plate but a light bar would look better there if I can get away with it This is what your after: (You have to get the classic car plates and it's not supposed to be your daily driver). Sec. 504.502. CERTAIN EXHIBITION VEHICLES;OFFENSE. (a) The department shall issue specialty license plates for a passenger car, truck, motorcycle, bus, or former military vehicle that: (1) is at least 25 years old, if the vehicle is a passenger car, truck, motorcycle, or bus; (2) is a collector's item; (3) is used exclusively for exhibitions, club activities, parades, and other functions of public interest and is not used for regular transportation; and (4) does not carry advertising. (h) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a vehicle issued license plates under Subsection (a) shall be required to attach and display only one license plate on the rear of the vehicle. That's for Antique Vehicles. You can drive a "classic car" for any reason unlike an antique vehicle. SUBCHAPTER L. OFFENSES AND PENALTIES
Sec. 504.941. ANTIQUE VEHICLES; OFFENSE. (a) A person who violates Section 504.502 commits an offense. An offense under this section is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not less than $5 or more than $200. (b) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that at the time of the offense the vehicle was en route to or from a location for the purpose of routine maintenance of the vehicle. |
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Posted: 1/1/2016 9:02:31 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Can someone school me on the classic car exception? I drive a 1990 pickup with the front plate but a light bar would look better there if I can get away with it Sure. You still need two plates plus you still need registration and inspection. Your vehicle due to age doesn't need emissions testing if you live in a county that requires it. Texas Admin Code Rule 217.45 (3) Number of plates issued. (A) Two plates. Unless otherwise listed in subparagraph (B) of this paragraph, two specialty license plates, each bearing the same license plate number, will be issued per vehicle. (B) One plate. One license plate will be issued per vehicle for all motorcycles and for the following specialty license plates: (i) Antique Vehicle; (ii) Classic Travel Trailer; (iii) Rental Trailer; (iv) Travel Trailer; (v) Cotton Vehicle; (vi) Disaster Relief; (vii) Forestry Vehicle; (viii) Golf Cart; (ix) Log Loader; and (x) Military Vehicle |
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Posted: 1/3/2016 1:19:29 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it's the look you don't like, there are a number of solutions used to mount plates under the front bumper that can slide out and up while driving. Several of them are even electric motor driven and switched from the inside. They were initially developed for using at car shows for a cleaner look. I know guys who have forgotten to put the plate back up and gotten pulled over, but no tickets once they explained that they just forgot. If my mustang didn't have holes in the front bumper already when I bought it, I might have gotten one of these set-ups to keep it clean. License plate flippers are illegal as of 2013 and the penalty upped in 2015. Just possessing one without even using it is a class B misdemeanor. Transportation Code 504.9465 |
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Posted: 1/3/2016 4:58:37 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
License plate flippers are illegal as of 2013 and the penalty upped in 2015. Just possessing one without even using it is a class B misdemeanor. Transportation Code 504.9465 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If it's the look you don't like, there are a number of solutions used to mount plates under the front bumper that can slide out and up while driving. Several of them are even electric motor driven and switched from the inside. They were initially developed for using at car shows for a cleaner look. I know guys who have forgotten to put the plate back up and gotten pulled over, but no tickets once they explained that they just forgot. If my mustang didn't have holes in the front bumper already when I bought it, I might have gotten one of these set-ups to keep it clean. License plate flippers are illegal as of 2013 and the penalty upped in 2015. Just possessing one without even using it is a class B misdemeanor. Transportation Code 504.9465 Well that is horseshit. Would like to see some case law on it. I hope someone has fought it and been successful. Especially as - device which is intended to be activated while driving to SHOW the plate is obviously NOT intended to be deceitful. |
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Posted: 1/24/2016 4:35:39 PM EDT
[#28]
Actually had a PD car do a U-turn on me as I was driving back from grabbing breakfast this morning for what I think was him noticing my lack of front plate. Once he swung around I guess he saw the dealer plate on the back of the car and turned back around the way he was originally going. |
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Posted: 1/25/2016 3:56:38 AM EDT
[#29]
I haven't had a front lic plate on my JK wrangler now for several years. Never been pulled over.
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Posted: 1/26/2016 11:11:10 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well that is horseshit. Would like to see some case law on it. I hope someone has fought it and been successful. Especially as - device which is intended to be activated while driving to SHOW the plate is obviously NOT intended to be deceitful. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If it's the look you don't like, there are a number of solutions used to mount plates under the front bumper that can slide out and up while driving. Several of them are even electric motor driven and switched from the inside. They were initially developed for using at car shows for a cleaner look. I know guys who have forgotten to put the plate back up and gotten pulled over, but no tickets once they explained that they just forgot. If my mustang didn't have holes in the front bumper already when I bought it, I might have gotten one of these set-ups to keep it clean. License plate flippers are illegal as of 2013 and the penalty upped in 2015. Just possessing one without even using it is a class B misdemeanor. Transportation Code 504.9465 Well that is horseshit. Would like to see some case law on it. I hope someone has fought it and been successful. Especially as - device which is intended to be activated while driving to SHOW the plate is obviously NOT intended to be deceitful. It will be highly unlikely to see any case law because the law is not ambiguous. It is pretty clear what is illegal. |
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Posted: 1/26/2016 11:36:03 PM EDT
[#31]
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It will be highly unlikely to see any case law because the law is not ambiguous. It is pretty clear what is illegal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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License plate flippers are illegal as of 2013 and the penalty upped in 2015. Just possessing one without even using it is a class B misdemeanor. Transportation Code 504.9465 Well that is horseshit. Would like to see some case law on it. I hope someone has fought it and been successful. Especially as - device which is intended to be activated while driving to SHOW the plate is obviously NOT intended to be deceitful. It will be highly unlikely to see any case law because the law is not ambiguous. It is pretty clear what is illegal. My interpretation of that is that a Sto-N-Sho would not count as a "license plate flipper." Would that be correct? For those that don't know what it is: it mounts underneath the front bumper so you don't have to drill holes on the front of your car. However, it is capable of being taken off by pulling the pin. 
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Posted: 1/27/2016 12:20:51 AM EDT
[#32]
I'd say that would not count as a license plate flipper. It still requires one to get out of the car and remove it manually... no different than if one were to get out with a screwdriver and do the same.
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Posted: 1/27/2016 9:34:28 AM EDT
[#33]
Thats a neat idea.
I wouldnt care if someone was using this. I understand why dudes dont like front plates on expensive sportscars, but it's still required to be mounted to the front somehow. |
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Posted: 1/27/2016 11:25:00 AM EDT
[#34]
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It will be highly unlikely to see any case law because the law is not ambiguous. It is pretty clear what is illegal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If it's the look you don't like, there are a number of solutions used to mount plates under the front bumper that can slide out and up while driving. Several of them are even electric motor driven and switched from the inside. They were initially developed for using at car shows for a cleaner look. I know guys who have forgotten to put the plate back up and gotten pulled over, but no tickets once they explained that they just forgot. If my mustang didn't have holes in the front bumper already when I bought it, I might have gotten one of these set-ups to keep it clean. License plate flippers are illegal as of 2013 and the penalty upped in 2015. Just possessing one without even using it is a class B misdemeanor. Transportation Code 504.9465 Well that is horseshit. Would like to see some case law on it. I hope someone has fought it and been successful. Especially as - device which is intended to be activated while driving to SHOW the plate is obviously NOT intended to be deceitful. It will be highly unlikely to see any case law because the law is not ambiguous. It is pretty clear what is illegal. So did Texas have a really big issue with this that I never noticed or did a lawmaker watch to many spy movies and thought it should be outlawed? |
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Posted: 1/27/2016 11:32:16 AM EDT
[#35]
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So did Texas have a really big issue with this that I never noticed or did a lawmaker watch to many spy movies and thought it should be outlawed? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If it's the look you don't like, there are a number of solutions used to mount plates under the front bumper that can slide out and up while driving. Several of them are even electric motor driven and switched from the inside. They were initially developed for using at car shows for a cleaner look. I know guys who have forgotten to put the plate back up and gotten pulled over, but no tickets once they explained that they just forgot. If my mustang didn't have holes in the front bumper already when I bought it, I might have gotten one of these set-ups to keep it clean. License plate flippers are illegal as of 2013 and the penalty upped in 2015. Just possessing one without even using it is a class B misdemeanor. Transportation Code 504.9465 Well that is horseshit. Would like to see some case law on it. I hope someone has fought it and been successful. Especially as - device which is intended to be activated while driving to SHOW the plate is obviously NOT intended to be deceitful. It will be highly unlikely to see any case law because the law is not ambiguous. It is pretty clear what is illegal. So did Texas have a really big issue with this that I never noticed or did a lawmaker watch to many spy movies and thought it should be outlawed? I've never seen one but I wonder if this was a result of folks trying to avoid paying tolls or red light camera tickets. |
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Posted: 1/27/2016 1:25:05 PM EDT
[#36]
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Thats a neat idea. I wouldnt care if someone was using this. I understand why dudes dont like front plates on expensive sportscars, but it's still required to be mounted to the front somehow. I take it by your post you're a cop. Let me ask you: what would be your response if you pulled someone over that didn't have a front license plate and they said they had one of those installed on their car and just forgot to put it back on and they offered to retrieve the front end of the Sto-N-Sho from their trunk and immediately put it back on? So pretty much the piece below was already installed on the car and the front piece (that takes about 3 seconds to put back on) was in the trunk. 
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Posted: 1/27/2016 2:39:24 PM EDT
[#37]
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I take it by your post you're a cop. Let me ask you: what would be your response if you pulled someone over that didn't have a front license plate and they said they had one of those installed on their car and just forgot to put it back on and they offered to retrieve the front end of the Sto-N-Sho from their trunk and immediately put it back on? So pretty much the piece below was already installed on the car and the front piece (that takes about 3 seconds to put back on) was in the trunk. http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/bmp-sns48.jpg?rep=False Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Thats a neat idea. I wouldnt care if someone was using this. I understand why dudes dont like front plates on expensive sportscars, but it's still required to be mounted to the front somehow. I take it by your post you're a cop. Let me ask you: what would be your response if you pulled someone over that didn't have a front license plate and they said they had one of those installed on their car and just forgot to put it back on and they offered to retrieve the front end of the Sto-N-Sho from their trunk and immediately put it back on? So pretty much the piece below was already installed on the car and the front piece (that takes about 3 seconds to put back on) was in the trunk. http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/bmp-sns48.jpg?rep=False I'm not r-2-k-b-a but I'm a police officer. If I were to stop you under those circumstances I would not cite you for it. I also wouldn't cite you if I stopped you for an expired registration and I found out you had the new sticker in your glovebox. To be fair, I haven't written a traffic citation in about 20 years so it's easy for me to say but that was my policy when I was stopping cars regularly. I can only speak for myself, though. Other cops might differ...I know a couple that would probably issue you a ticket. |
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Posted: 1/27/2016 4:07:53 PM EDT
[#38]
I think HK is asking whether the ticket is likely to be a simple "failure to display" or if it will be a "prohibited equipment" ticket under the law that was posted above.
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Posted: 1/27/2016 4:33:20 PM EDT
[#39]
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I think HK is asking whether the ticket is likely to be a simple "failure to display" or if it will be a "prohibited equipment" ticket under the law that was posted above. I don't think the device shown in the photo qualifies as a license plate flipper since it doesn't flip. It's just a removable mount unless I'm misunderstanding something. If I were to cite someone for that it would be "No front plate" but as I said under the circumstances given I would not issue a ticket. |
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Posted: 1/28/2016 10:43:31 PM EDT
[#40]
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I don't think the device shown in the photo qualifies as a license plate flipper since it doesn't flip. It's just a removable mount unless I'm misunderstanding something. If I were to cite someone for that it would be "No front plate" but as I said under the circumstances given I would not issue a ticket. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think HK is asking whether the ticket is likely to be a simple "failure to display" or if it will be a "prohibited equipment" ticket under the law that was posted above. I don't think the device shown in the photo qualifies as a license plate flipper since it doesn't flip. It's just a removable mount unless I'm misunderstanding something. If I were to cite someone for that it would be "No front plate" but as I said under the circumstances given I would not issue a ticket. Unlike MSB, I do conduct traffic enforcement and do issue tickets 
However, as I stated before I would not count that as a license plate flipper. Aside from that, whether or not someone got cited for it would depend on a few things: 1) How many prior tickets/warnings have you had prior to this? If you tell me you just forgot it, yet have 3 or 4 prior warnings, I'd say you "forget" a little too much and a ticket might help you remember. However, it is still a fix-it ticket, so all you have to do is remedy the violation and the ticket gets dismissed. 2) Are you on a toll road? Odds are, if you "forget" to put it back on, yet are running up and down the toll road, I'd give you a ticket. It would be obvious your intent was to avoid the toll road. You're not special and have to pay it like everyone else. |
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Posted: 1/29/2016 1:04:39 AM EDT
[#41]
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2) Are you on a toll road? Odds are, if you "forget" to put it back on, yet are running up and down the toll road, I'd give you a ticket. It would be obvious your intent was to avoid the toll road. You're not special and have to pay it like everyone else. In the above instance the device is for the front bumper - not the back. I don't think lack of a front plate is by itself intent to avoid tolls. |
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Posted: 1/31/2016 1:29:37 AM EDT
[#42]
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My interpretation of that is that a Sto-N-Sho would not count as a "license plate flipper." Would that be correct? For those that don't know what it is: it mounts underneath the front bumper so you don't have to drill holes on the front of your car. However, it is capable of being taken off by pulling the pin. http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/uploads/gallery/album_2148/med_gallery_41405_2148_2523.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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License plate flippers are illegal as of 2013 and the penalty upped in 2015. Just possessing one without even using it is a class B misdemeanor. Transportation Code 504.9465 Well that is horseshit. Would like to see some case law on it. I hope someone has fought it and been successful. Especially as - device which is intended to be activated while driving to SHOW the plate is obviously NOT intended to be deceitful. It will be highly unlikely to see any case law because the law is not ambiguous. It is pretty clear what is illegal. My interpretation of that is that a Sto-N-Sho would not count as a "license plate flipper." Would that be correct? For those that don't know what it is: it mounts underneath the front bumper so you don't have to drill holes on the front of your car. However, it is capable of being taken off by pulling the pin. http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/uploads/gallery/album_2148/med_gallery_41405_2148_2523.jpg Not a license plate flipper. Admin Code says plates must be securely fastened. (b) Unless otherwise prescribed by law, each vehicle registered under this subchapter: (1) must display two license plates, one at the exterior front and one at the exterior rear of the vehicle that are securely fastened at the exterior front and rear of the vehicle in a horizontal position of not less than 12 inches from the ground, measuring from the bottom, except that a vehicle described by Transportation Code, §621.2061 may place the rear plate so that it is clearly visible... The mounting and pin make it securely fastened. The courts look to the legislative intent as well as the letter of the law. The bill analysis reads: AUTHOR'S / SPONSOR'S STATEMENT OF INTENT The use of the license plate flipper device was brought to the attention of the Bexar County District Attorney's Office by the Department of Public Safety of the State of Texas. A license plate flipper is a device designed to allow an individual to rotate or flip between two license plates within a matter of seconds. The device works by push of a button or pull of a cord. Such devices can be home-made. More sophisticatedly manufactured devices can be purchased online. While it is currently illegal under Texas law to have false or obscured license plates showing on a vehicle, it is not illegal to have a license plate flipper device on a vehicle with false license plates not showing. This is a problem because it takes a driver less than one second to flip a license plate to a plate not registered to that specific vehicle or vice versa. There is concern that license plate flipper devices allow a criminal to hinder the ability of law enforcement or an average citizen to identify the vehicle. S.B. 1757 creates an offense punishable by Class B misdemeanor for possession of a license plate flipper device. It creates an offense punishable by Class A misdemeanor for distribution, manufacture, selling, or furnishing a license plate flipper. And finally, if a license plate flipper is used to avoid detecting before, during, or after commission of a crime, the offense becomes punishable by one category higher than the most serious offense committed. As proposed, S.B. 1757 amends current law relating to the definition of license plate flipper and providing a penalty. |
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Posted: 2/7/2016 11:07:04 PM EDT
[#43]
Which one do you think is more likely to get someone pulled over?
1) No plate at all on the front. 2) Putting the plate on the dash or attaching to the inside of the windshield using suction cups. My guess is #2 since that seems to call attention to the fact that it's not on the front bumper. #1 could be an out-of-state vehicle. |
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