Howdy All,

My family has been going to our church, Rosehill UMC, for over 15 years.  It's a small church with a really great group of people.  About 2 or 3 years ago we got a new Pastor who's a nice guy, but sort of lacks in the Sermon area.  Sermon's are bit vague, but we go anyway.  It's OUR church.

Recently my wife found a Blog entry on the church web site that is blatantly anti-gun, specifically anti-OC, right down to the point of him suggesting "pat-downs" by ushers and "confiscations" if a firearm is found.

I'm done with this church, and it both angers and saddens me. See the blog entry below, with my emphasis points.

CMOS  

*******************************************************
Texas Open Carry Handgun Law

I wonder how many of you have been as concerned as me at the current trend among a majority of our state politicians and, apparently, a vast number of the citizens of the great state of Texas, over the right to carry handguns – out in the open, into public places, in our schools and colleges.  This article was in the Houston Chronicle this morning (3/17/15):

AUSTIN – The state Senate on Monday gave preliminary approval to a bill that would allow Texans to openly carry holstered handguns with a license, after shooting down nearly 20 amendments that sought to restrict the legislation.  Senate Bill 17, sponsored by Craig Estes, R-Wichita Falls, would undo Texas’ 125-year old ban on the open carry of handguns, but this only would be permitted if the gun owner passed a background check and obtained a license like that needed to carry concealed weapons. The Senate is slated to give the bill final approval Tuesday. It’s already legal in Texas to publicly tote long arms like AR-15s and AK-47s without a license.

I’ve now been sitting here nearly 15 minutes trying to find the words to describe what I’m thinking – what I’m feeling inside.  And this from a guy who has enjoyed over the years going out in the woods shooting his guns (the few I have), sitting in a deer stand hunting and freezing to death.  I can’t help but wonder how much trouble those state politicians had 125 years ago when they banned the open carry of handguns.  What a riot that must have started!  I wonder what caused them to pass such a law. It's called Reconstruction - we lost the Civil War then the Union appointed government immediately moved to ban the OC of handguns.  Once again, politics, not reason cost folks another liberty.

How comforting it will be to know that in the near future, when I see a young man in Kroger approaching me, packing a Glock 39 handgun, my first thought will be that well, at least he’s passed a background check and obtained a concealed handgun license. I wonder if at that same moment I’ll be wishing I had one of my own – but bigger than his, of course.

I’m sorry folks, especially for you who can’t wait to start carrying your handgun slung low on your waist, w/ the holster string tied tight around your thigh, but I’m having a real hard time coming to grips with all this.  Like you, I see on the news how handguns are used almost every night to hold up convenient stores, car-jackings, home break-ins.  But will it be a safer place when we all (or a lot of us) are armed and ready to shoot it out in that convenient store, that parking lot, our homes.  Maybe; maybe not. Personally, I don’t think so.

I know, some of you are thinking that I’m just another one of those left-wing, bleeding liberals, who think that only guns kill people, and so we should get rid of them all.  Well, you’re wrong, but I really don’t care what you think when it comes to carrying guns.  It’s people with guns in their hands that kill people.  How good it is to know that in the very near future, the number of people with guns – concealed or right there I the open, might double, triple, maybe even quadruple.  Wow!  Imagine how safe our convenience stores, our parking lots, our homes will be then.

By the way, while I haven’t read all the words in this open carry gun law, I hope those who favor it will at least insist on our churches being gun-free. If not, then I might have to insist that our ushers be trained on how to frisk folks and confiscate handguns before they let people into worship.  Or, maybe it would be safe if at least one person on every pew was packing heat.  Would that make you feel safer?  I wonder what Jesus would say?  That’s how I see it.  What about you.

Your servant in Christ,   No, your are not serving Christ.  You are now serving the LEFT.

Bob

Precisely.

CMOS

Be sure to let him and/or the church know why you are leaving.  Others may feel the same way and not want to be the first to say so, or they might not even know Bob's stance.

lol, they can't even use a new argument.

the people against chl gave the same argument to say why we shouldn't be allowed to have chl's in texas.

now that they are visible, it will be blood in the streets, shoot outs in every store. lol.

and the fact they tied it to chl's and just just open carry in general, means it is the same people carrying yesterday as tomorrow. only difference is some will chose to open carry.

makes me sad and cracks me up at the same time.

Agreed.

I already sent an email to our adult Sunday School class - full of outdoors-men, hunters, etc.  I will be sending a very polite letter directly to the Pastor.


CMOS

My wife and I routinely carry in church..

Our pastor has been known to carry.  We gave him grief when he told us he was carrying a 380, both my wife and I suggested he could fit an SBR under his robes.

Personally, we don't go where we can't protect ourselves and our children.

Semper Fi

The Methodist Church is a long time enemy of the Second Amendment, way over 40 years.  The church is based on social justice...I left before I was 18 and will never set foot in the church again.

Time to find a different church IMO. A few months back when the illegal  immigrant children were all in the news our pastor made the suggestion that we as parishioners should put some of these kids up in our homes and sponsor them to become citizens. Well I can tell you that went over like a turd in a punch bowl. I knew he had a liberal bent but it was now confirmed.

Vince

In the Methodist Church is something called a PPR committee, you need to talk to them, if they feel the same way as the pastor, then leave, if not then they need to have a talk with the pastor, they can force him to leave.

Church is one of the most dangerous places there is.  I wouldn't think about walking in one without carrying.  God isn't going to protect anyone from the nuts they attract.  This will probably upset some, but it's reality.

Did you read the quoted post in the OP? He goes on and on with general anti-gun bullshit, and then a tiny little portion about church at the end. Not pissing his pants when he sees a gun in Kroger is a higher priority for him than maintaining a house of peace.

He's just another bed wetting liberal retard. Scumbags like him would just as soon have you and your family disarmed and vulnerable everywhere you go just to make themselves feel a little better.



 

Wow.  That would be a "walk" for me on that one also.

I know from a few other congregation members that the Pastor's wife is a rabid leftist.  This is an agenda for him.

It will be interesting to see how many people I know, in my adult SS class, actually walk like we are, and also to see how many of the hunters just shrug it off and keep attending.

This sickens me!

CMOS

I hope to get back in church one day.  WWJD, still trying to find the meaning in the message.

His rant was decidedly political in nature.



 

When you have to say that the sermons are "a bit vague", then that's a red flag.

We left the Methodist Church years back for this reason, when the message became a kind of "be nice" rather than Bible based.  Guns weren't the issue then, it was nuclear freeze stuff from the denomination.

The wife carries because it's always in the purse.  I'll carry at times, but I don't wear a coat to church, so...

Former Methodists

Left many years ago.

Methodist church very anti 2A. Since the 70's  left the gospel in the early 90's.


Presbyterian PCA. Politicaly Conservative, Bible is the word of God conservative church.

I've watched the Methodist circle the drain of liberalism that the mainline Presbyterian church went down.
There is now another denomination named the Presbyterian Church of America that holds to the old ways. Guys would come in from their Sunday afternoon rides on their Harley's with concealed carry on their hips to Sunday night services. Pastor didn't care for it but they were the elders of the church that paid most of the tab.
Look to see if there is the equivalent Methodist denomination.

I don't know how a Methodist church is organized administratively.

Does the pastor have the authority to unilaterally enact rules applying to the congregation for services and such?

i.e., could he say "no red ties" and make it so?


If the answer is "no" - then I wouldn't bother with it.  Except to perhaps begin feeling folks out (if i were seriously involved in my Church) for thoughts about finding a new pastor.

What is he post g this sort of drivel for and not tending to his parishioners?

I'm sorry, but he should be doing other things with his time to build the kingdom.

I'm looking for a new church as well...

This is off the UMC website.



convene workshops of clergy and mental health care professionals from communities (urban, rural, and suburban) in which gun violence has had a significant impact in order to discuss ways by which The United Methodist Church should respond to this growing tragedy, and to determine what role the church should take in facilitating dialogue to address the issue of gun violence in our schools and among our children;

educate the United Methodist community (parents, children, and youth) on gun safety, violence prevention, adult responsibility around gun violence prevention, and the public health impact of gun violence;

identify community-based, state, and national organizations working on the issue of gun violence and seek their assistance to design education and prevention workshops around the issue of gun violence and its effect on children and youth;

develop advocacy groups within local congregations to advocate for the eventual reduction of the availability of guns in society with a particular emphasis upon handguns, handgun ammunition, assault weapons, automatic weapons, automatic weapon conversion kits, and guns that cannot be detected by traditionally used metal detection devices. These groups can be linked to community-based, state, and national organizations working on gun and violence issues;

support federal legislation in the US Congress to regulate the importation, manufacturing, sale, and possession of guns and ammunition by the general public. Such legislation should include provisions for the registration and licensing of gun purchasers and owners, appropriate background investigation and waiting periods prior to gun purchase, and regulation of subsequent sale;

call upon all governments of the world in which there is a United Methodist presence to establish national bans on ownership by the general public of handguns, assault weapons, automatic weapon conversion kits, and weapons that cannot be detected by traditionally used metal-detection devices;

call upon the print, broadcasting, and electronic media, as well as the entertainment industry, to refrain from promoting gun usage to children;

discourage the graphic depiction and glorification of violence by the entertainment industry, which greatly influences our society, and recommend that these issues be addressed through education and consciousness raising;

call upon the federal and state governments to provide significant assistance to victims of gun violence and their families;

recommend that annual conferences make visible public witness to the sin of gun violence and to the hope of community healing; and

reflecting the traditional role of The United Methodist Church has been one of safety and sanctuary, every United Methodist Church is officially declared a weapon-free zone.

Your preacher is a parasite and manipulator. " Luke warm" he will accept the gratuities of shooting your guns, deer hunts etc then post this crap. I wonder how long it will take for this rest of the story to come out.

Wow, our church welcomes guns. In fact we have an armed security team of some officers and some UCGs like myself.

We've discussed OC and while we're not going to promote it, well accept it.

Good call on leaving.

I hate to do this, but I must say it...



Your church is out to undermine an essential American right.



If you go, strictly by the Heller ruling, then Americans have, by declaration of the United States Supreme Court, an incorporated right to own handguns.



For a Church, not the local Christian Church but a national denomination, to make, as a plan for their Church, UNIVERSALLY, to undermine an essential liberty, as interpreted by the Supreme Court of the United States...



NO SIR! The Methodist Church (distinguishing from Methodists mind you) is seeking to undermine, and remove an essential American RIGHT.



The leadership of your church has deviated from it's role, as defined by God, and is seeking to undo your freedom.



I tip my hat to you for having the courage to stand for what is right.



 

If I were the church-going sort, I'd tell that preacher that I would damn well continue to CCW in "my" church.  But I'm not the church-going sort, so my first instinct is to just whip his liberal, communist ass.  Giving up church was the best thing I ever did - freed up my Sundays for lots of shooting!  

Would Jesus give a shit where a kid was born? I get it if you can't afford it etc...but if your only reason against helping a kid out is the country their parents happened to have fucked in and spit them out in.... Well bub...you're missing the point of those sermons.

Wedgewood Baptist Church, September 1999

Nearly all the mainstream churches are ANTI Second Amendment and promote Progressive policies,
Methodist, Baptists, Episcopalians, Catholics, Presbyterians USA..


MANY are now accepting Gay Marriage as a thing..
Many are promoting the Progressive think on "Hate Speech"
Many feel/act/push for the GOVERNMENT to take over the evil internet and control it's content.

Many with in the main stream churches are now preaching the gospel of the "PROPHET" Jesus Christ..
NOT Jesus Christ Son of God and part of the Trinity
?
I spend much of my life as a agnostic...10 years ago, Iife? God? something, sent me on a search for more..Judism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Catholicism, Christianity. I read much, watched numerous videos. listened to testimony..finding comfort in my roots of Christianity. I sought a home church.

I visited in the neighborhood of 75 churches in a 2.5 year trek......tiring, frustrating, revealing...

I found more people of like mind and a minister who teaches the gospels in the PCA and not some made up modern day comparison feel good story
every week that has little to do with seeking perfection in the eyes of God..based on a strong belief in the Great Awaking that has led
to the freedom found in the USA...and the practice of said Liberties Including my right to keep and bare arms and speak my mind and question my beliefs.
CHEF

Any Church that preaches "Gay is Ok" other than love the sinner hate the sin isn't following Christ at all.

If they limit speech and praise gov't control of facets of life they probably don't know much about Christ either. From what I've read anyway he wasn't one for political correctness or sitting around stewing on things.

When did church become about the organization and not the congregation gathering in Christ!?

Good question.  I have heard from many at the church that "Bob likes to make all the decisions, without input from the Congregation."  There also has been mention of some "committee" that apparently most ideas have to go through, of which Bob is the Committee leader.

We already have a couple alternate church suggestions from some friends.  We'll begin looking for another home . . .


CMOS

I'll tell you when: when the Left added control of churches to their list.  It' started a couple decades ago, but with their slow insidious progression nobody noticed.  There have been a few well known Conservative media personalities that have warned the public of this, but apparently nobody was listening.  Glen Beck is one of them.  I remember almost 10 years ago the list of things he predicted (sourced from his team's research) the Left would do, and the church was one of those things they needed to control as part of the larger plan of CONTROL.

They are succeeding.  

Most Conservatives, when told of the plans of the Left, simply refuse to believe it because it just too outrageous for them to believe - it's a "nutjob" prediction.  Well, it's not.  We're there now.  Over the last 7 years the Left has advanced their agenda almost unopposed.  There's no way we can turn back the clock on the damage that has been done.

I honestly didn't think I'd see what I see today until I was on my death bed.  Truly sad how far this nation has fallen.


CMOS

Looks like you know why most churchs don't have much of a lesson, allow gay marriage , gay preachers etc. etc.

Commies and leftist took over.

I would walk away also.   Bob might find himself all alone.

That's a tough situation man.

I'm a big believer in the "our church" mentality that you mentioned. I'm also a firm believer in the 2nd amendment.

I have had guys in leadership at my church before who disagreed with me on these sort of things. We would talk about them, discuss them. We still do. In fact one guy who has since moved away posted some harsh thoughts on open carry passing just last night. After several erased responses I just closed the computer.

For me I always try to remember to go back to what truly matters. I think our faith in God has to come before our political opinions. Doesn't mean I believe what I believe any less firmly, but it means at the end of the day I try to love and have relationships with those who disagree with me on 2nd amendment issues because God is more important. (I can take that stance a little easier than you because it isn't my pastor who is doing this or threatening to do anything like yours is.)

"but I really don’t care what you think when it comes to carrying guns"
To be frank though, I see a lack of maturity or wisdom in your pastor's writing. He may be a great guy, he may truly love God, but his choice of words here was very poor.
This is what truly concerns me. These words, to me, do not sound like the words of a shepherd practicing servant leadership and caring for his flock. His argument sounds like what I would have said a few years ago when I was consumed by politics and gun rights. I held them in a place where they did not belong and my words made that clear.

If there was an actual problem with it in our church I'm certain my pastor would address us about it. Be he wouldn't write a blog post just to tout his opinion. Particularly one that (at least in the article) does not appear to be biblical in any way. This looks to me like a political blog post by a pastor and I think he would be wise to reconsider that type of writing.

I thought American Liberty was one of the basic tenants of the Methodist church?

I took my CHL class at a baptist church. The pastor came in and gave a 10 minute talk. He carried and encouraged his congregation to carry.

I go to a different church and carry every week. The whole Garland Muslim thing reinforced this mindset.

You don't get to pick the time and place.

THIS!!!!  Somebody else gets it!

My first and last impression as well.  OC in church? C'mon folks.

I agree - stand up and speak out or find a way to have your voice heard with the elders. There are still good churches out there and they will increasingly be under attack from without and within.

Use Luke 22:36 in a rebuttal if you so choose.  

Yeah OP, it's time for a new church.

Or call him on the carpet in front of everyone.  If I had been with that church for a while, and it was filled with my kind of like minded people, it might be time for a congregational meeting.

My parents are Methodist...  although it is largely because my grandparents and great grandparents were...  having converted from Lutheranism when they left nothern Germany and Norway and came to the US.  The UMC has gone way libtard over the years.  I could not abide by it even as a teenager.  I don't know how my parents stomach it because in many ways they are extremely religiously conservative in their beliefs, almost like Mennonites or something...

Anyway...  I've rejected the whole mess of religion in general.

Good luck. Leaving a church can be interesting.

---------------------------

FWIW, I exited a religion in 2003 when it banning assault weapons became an official church position. I didn't want to add to the headcount when they were lobbying congress. I still get occasional pressure from friends/family to go back.

Jesus speaking in Luke 22:36

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

CMOS,

Sorry to hear about your situation.

I guess BOB will be glad to be working in such a "Weapons Free / Victim Rich" environment...

I am glad to know that YOU will step forward to protect the innocent when the call is sounded and help is most urgently needed.

Please ask BOB when he will lead a protest march to demand that all US troops and Police officers give up their icky devil guns.

BIGGER_HAMMER

Better yet, get a pat down, claim you were touched inappropriately.

Well, Bye.

There's a Church on every other street corner.....

So when he walks through Kroger and see some big dude that works out does he get nervous? Should working out be banned? What about a group of 3-4 men in Kroger? Does he worry about them? Should adult males be banned from being in a group of more than two?

When you write guns are used to hold up people, car jack people and in break-ins. What you really mean is that it is mainly MEN who are doing these things. Maybe you would just like to ban men?

Yes people with guns in their hands kill people. Except it is a tiny TINY minority of people with guns that do this. People with knives and bats and fists also kill people.

Why do you fear your congregation? Why are you insecure?

What would Jesus say? Well I imagine he would tell us to love one another and not to commit murder. I think we can manage not to do that if we open or conceal carry.

Your pastors fears are irrational.

In bold:

Well, at least he's honest, both regarding his concern for other's thoughts and his own lack of knowledge.

Can't help those who refuse to listen and refuse to learn.