Funny you say that.  For some reason I was able to learn lots of things in school that people claim we don't have time for today.  The only thing that has changed is the standardized testing.

There are a lot of things I was forced to learn that I don't use that I still value the knowledge of today.  I've never needed Calculus or advanced Physics (although I have used trigonometry and simple newtonian physics extensively over the years).  Cursive isn't one of those things.  It was a waste of time then, and it is now.  But I guess I'm a brick since I've been programming for over 30 years.  As for supporting legacy systems...  if all you are in it for is the money then I suppose that sort of things is O.K.  I could probably make more money if I was willing to work with systems that suck like Windows (tomorrow's legacy system -- well actually old versions are already becoming that), but life is too short to deal with unnecessary frustrations.  If that means other people are smarter because they value money over happiness, then more power to them.

Fortran is still a requirement for a lot of science degrees and is still used in a lot of scientific and engineering environments.

Not irrelevant yet, and probably won't be for some time still. As much as I personally hate it , it's not going anywhere yet.



 

I gotta stop checking in on this thread. All this standardized test talk will get me ranting.

Daughter in the second grade is learning cursive, Cy-Fair school district.  Maybe some teach it and others see no reason for it.

Your point was the cursive was an art form, and by that point you inferred its usefulness as a course of study was as such.  I do not necessarily disagree.  

You seem to keep conflating "cursive" with "handwriting."

Handwriting needs to be taught of course.  But it does not need to be cursive.  Cursive is past it's usefulness as a tool of communication.

I took a course in caveman handwriting once.  About halfway through the course I realized "this is stupid, nobody communicates on the sides of caves anymore" so I dropped the class.

I don't think I was trying to call cursive an art form.  I said something to the effect that we have what some people call useless classes like art appreciation but I never called it an art form.  I think saying its past its usefulness is like trying to say memorizing multiplication tables is past its usefulness because we have cheap calculators today.  I have no idea what you age is but it was not until the late 70’s that a handled calculator got very cheap.  Some people under the age of 30-40 have no idea that a cheap calculator was not sitting on everyones desk on in your pocket as part of your phone before that time.

Like I said before if you don't think its necessary then don't teach your kids.  It all works out in the end and you end up in the place your are destined for

O.K., so I know cursive...  How has it made me end up where I'm destined?  How would I have somehow utterly failed had I not wasted my time learning it?

If there aren't some pretty lucid answers to these two questions then that would seem to be pretty conclusive evidence as to cursive being a useless anachronism.

Clearly the style of writing is of greater importance than clearly constructing sentences to convey the desired idea to the reader...

When kids don't know the difference between ASK and AXE...  whether they write in pretty cursive or chicken scratch printing matters little.

Well I was trying to be PC but here goes.    My point is to those that decide not to get there kids to learn as much as posible are setting them up for failure.  I don't care what kind of spin you wish to try and put on it the bottom line is those that have a greater wealth of knowledge will always do better in life on average.  And please don't try to say I am linking cursive alone to success.

It sure sounded like that from what you'd said before...  Well, maybe more like an implication that anyone who didn't know cursive was somehow inferiorly educated.  But I am glad you now agree that knowing cursive is not necessary to be successful.

If I had kids, I would not want them to waste time on something as pointless as cursive.  As long as they can print legibly and type at an acceptable rate of speed and accuracy that is more important these days.  That does not mean that I wouldn't want kids to learn as much as possible, but I'd rather it was something useful like science, math or even history... Something, anything, other than those dreadful "Palmer Method" books...  Thankfully that company has been out of business for years.

Sure OK ... Your the one that inferred the link between Art and cursive but hey its all good in the end I guess ... Like I said teach your kids only what you personally think they should know and see what happens.  maybe it will work out or maybe they will be lacking only time can tell .  All I know it that having as much knowledge  as possible is never a bad thing and never hurt anyone.

Thats sad.  But then again, I am seeing it more and more as well.

Never tried to imply that those that don't know cursive will not be successful.  I only implied that those with as little knowledge as possible to get out of school are going to have a real surprise in life when it fully shits on them for being an idiot.  When that happens it will be the parents fault for not letting their kids know that they needed to learn as much as possible when they are young. When they do realize how they got screwed back in school it will most likely be to late.


As to you point about spending more time on math and sciences I definitely agree.  The issue is  less is being taught today with standardized testing.  For some reason I was able to learn more then the kids today when you look and what is being taught and still had time for life skills such as cursive.  The only real difference was I did not go to school when they had standardized testing.

I still think its very important for a kid to learn it because they will have to deal with it in life.  Anyone that says they will not is only kidding themselves.  I don't care if a kid uses it after they learn it but they have to know it.  its just like long division.  Sure a kid can just use a calculator because that is what technology has given us but do you really wish to have your kid be the dumb-ass that can't cipher with out a calculator.

Is cursive writing really even "knowledge" the same way that learning how to solve math problems or science experiments is?  Sure, it is a skill...  But I still haven't gotten any answer as to what calamity will confront someone who doesn't know how to write cursive that they can't do either by printing or typing?  Sure, more knowledge is always good, but you've kind of got it backwards.  Nobody is saying refuse to let kids who are interested study caligraphy, for example...  just that most people consider requiring the study of it to be a waste of time.  There are just lots of other subjects most of us would consider a higher priority.  Heck, I personally find subatomic particle physics to be fascinating, but that is my choice, not something that I was required to take until college.  And I think I've used that more often solving real world problems than writing in cursive.

Yep .. And more and more people say cursive is not needed because we have computers.  Unintended consequences I guess.  Just make your mark Toby and move along.

Have you missed that part where I said they will encounter it ?  if they can't read it correctly or they are very slow on interrupting it they are going to have a difficult time in life.  It sounds like you could read and write it if you needed to because you were taught it.  Now look at a kid that is never taught it and tell me how they are going to deal with it.  You can say they can learn it after school but you know very well most parents are a bunch of lazy fat asses that don't really give a crap.

And yes it is knowledge.  learning anything is knowledge.  Don't confuse knowledge with only things that you approve of personally

I don't think standardized tests are the problem.  I didn't go to K-12 around here, but where i did, even 40 years ago they used standardized tests.  I remember the "Stanford Achienvement Tests" well...  the bubble answer sheets and #2 pencils.  The difference was, those are mainly only a guide back then and not used quite as directly to determine who passes and what schools get shut down.

No, the real problem with the schools is the parents, and their lack of interest and involvement.  Like in "Idiocracy" it seems like every generation is just a little bit more stupid and lazy.  But there are exceptions.  Some districts which aren't being held down by problem, underachieving kids are still doing well.  And even in crappy schools some kids will learn on their own and succeed.  And the reason that the laggards are such a big problem is that with them often comes discipline problems, they slow down the other kids and things have to be dumbed down to the least common denominator.  If schools were allowed to let some kids fail and get them out of the system or put them in remedial classes the rest of the kids would be better off.  But instead our schools value how kids feel and the myth of equality (equality should only apply to opportunities, not be guaranteed in outcomes) over real education.

While I agree that learning the basics like long division is still useful even though we have calculators I don't think that extends to cursive.  It is already more or less dead.  Almost nobody uses it any more and frankly only an idiot couldn't figure out how to read it if they can read printing even if they never took a class in it or practised it enough to build up the hand skill needed to write it.  The letters are still basically the same just all looped together.  Being able to read it might be useful, but I can't see how being able to write it is worth the time.

We had testing when I was a child too.  The same as you.  The difference today is when people say standardized testing they are actually talking about test the government requires for teachers to keep their jobs and schools to get their funds.  This is very different testing then what you and I had.  This is the reason my son goes to a private school.  I know teachers that will say not to ever put your kids into most public schools because the course work they are given is designed to get the highest score on a test not to teach a child.    


Now back to Cursive.  Both you and I received formal training on it.  It seems normal for us to realize  that the symbols are basically the same.  You have to remember a child that has had no teachings on the subject will not necessarily make the some conclusion.  Also to the point that you say no one uses it.  For everyone you can point to me that does not use it i can show you someone who does.  In my field of work it is used a great deal by both young and old.  My opinion as to why this is is because there is a large amount a handwriting still being done for their job.


By the way here is the proof that not just anyone can read cursive.. And yes she had gone to a public school more worried about standardized testing.  And yes most likely her parents did not give a crap about education.