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Posted: 2/26/2015 10:00:32 PM EDT
[#1]
......
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Posted: 2/26/2015 10:24:25 PM EDT
[#2]
buy 100% lower and...
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Posted: 2/26/2015 10:52:59 PM EDT
[#3]
Is this a test?
OP.......read this before you waste your $$$ on an chunk of aluminum: http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/Firearms/FirearmsIndustry/atf-ruling-2015-1-manufacturing-and-gunsmithing.pdf |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 11:59:40 PM EDT
[#4]
No fed, we won't mill your 80% lower for you.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 3:50:02 AM EDT
[#5]
Yeah, good luck with that.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 9:24:12 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Hey, in dfw, looking to buy a 80% lower, but i dont have a capable hand drill, or a mill im wanting to know, before i buy it, if anyone near me has a mill or a cnc machine, or knew anyone or anywhere that would be able to mill/machine out a 80% AR15 lower receiver thanks you can order a mill and get FedEx to ship it to you |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 11:31:35 AM EDT
[#7]
Harbor Freight................
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Posted: 2/27/2015 3:32:13 PM EDT
[#8]
Wow!
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Posted: 2/27/2015 3:37:41 PM EDT
[#9]
In, I guess.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 4:31:44 PM EDT
[#10]
Do you have any of those DIAS from shot gun news to go with that?
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:04:14 PM EDT
[#11]
Amazon Prime! You can order a mill and get free shipping!
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:15:54 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Amazon Prime! You can order a mill and get free shipping! http://justmillingmachines.org/img/bbc4a240219b490d22ca61936c5d702f.jpg I would love to have that |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:21:30 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you have any of those DIAS from shot gun news to go with that? Maybe the nice officer can bring one when he brings his lower. Maybe one of those sweet oil filter drip adapters too. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:44:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Hey, in dfw, looking to buy a 80% lower, but i dont have a capable hand drill, or a mill im wanting to know, before i buy it, if anyone near me has a mill or a cnc machine, or knew anyone or anywhere that would be able to mill/machine out a 80% AR15 lower receiver thanks In case you don't know what others in this thread are talking about, BATFE has issued letters recently that essentially insinuate that they consider even loaning someone TOOLS like a drill press, bits or a jig to be the same as finishing the lower for them (which isn't legal for sure). Even though many people consider this to be reaching way too far on their part and probably unenforceable if not outright not within their legal power... it is unlikely that anyone in their right mind who is aware of how restrictive BATFE is getting will be willing to loan anything to anyone who they think might be planning on milling a lower. I'm personally surprised that BATFE hasn't outright banned lower jigs or distribution of detailed blueprints. Given the route they appear to be taken that is probably next. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 9:09:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Hey, in dfw, looking to buy a 80% lower, but i dont have a capable hand drill, or a mill im wanting to know, before i buy it, if anyone near me has a mill or a cnc machine, or knew anyone or anywhere that would be able to mill/machine out a 80% AR15 lower receiver thanks Yea sure, I'll mill it out for you. And while I'm at it, I will make you a LL..............
Jokes aside OP, read the post above mine. Best thing for you to do is either buy the tooling or just buy a stripped lower. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 9:25:06 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In case you don't know what others in this thread are talking about, BATFE has issued letters recently that essentially insinuate that they consider even loaning someone TOOLS like a drill press, bits or a jig to be the same as finishing the lower for them (which isn't legal for sure). Even though many people consider this to be reaching way too far on their part and probably unenforceable if not outright not within their legal power... it is unlikely that anyone in their right mind who is aware of how restrictive BATFE is getting will be willing to loan anything to anyone who they think might be planning on milling a lower. I'm personally surprised that BATFE hasn't outright banned lower jigs or distribution of detailed blueprints. Given the route they appear to be taken that is probably next. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hey, in dfw, looking to buy a 80% lower, but i dont have a capable hand drill, or a mill im wanting to know, before i buy it, if anyone near me has a mill or a cnc machine, or knew anyone or anywhere that would be able to mill/machine out a 80% AR15 lower receiver thanks In case you don't know what others in this thread are talking about, BATFE has issued letters recently that essentially insinuate that they consider even loaning someone TOOLS like a drill press, bits or a jig to be the same as finishing the lower for them (which isn't legal for sure). Even though many people consider this to be reaching way too far on their part and probably unenforceable if not outright not within their legal power... it is unlikely that anyone in their right mind who is aware of how restrictive BATFE is getting will be willing to loan anything to anyone who they think might be planning on milling a lower. I'm personally surprised that BATFE hasn't outright banned lower jigs or distribution of detailed blueprints. Given the route they appear to be taken that is probably next. You don't think he knows? |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 10:17:31 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Amazon Prime! You can order a mill and get free shipping! http://justmillingmachines.org/img/bbc4a240219b490d22ca61936c5d702f.jpg A big ass mill with free shipping?!?!? I'm all over it. 
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Posted: 2/28/2015 12:09:42 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you can order a mill and get FedEx to ship it to you Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hey, in dfw, looking to buy a 80% lower, but i dont have a capable hand drill, or a mill im wanting to know, before i buy it, if anyone near me has a mill or a cnc machine, or knew anyone or anywhere that would be able to mill/machine out a 80% AR15 lower receiver thanks you can order a mill and get FedEx to ship it to you Not if it completes 80% lowers! http://www.wired.com/2015/02/fedex-mill-untraceable-firearms/ |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 12:11:34 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In case you don't know what others in this thread are talking about, BATFE has issued letters recently that essentially insinuate that they consider even loaning someone TOOLS like a drill press, bits or a jig to be the same as finishing the lower for them (which isn't legal for sure). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hey, in dfw, looking to buy a 80% lower, but i dont have a capable hand drill, or a mill im wanting to know, before i buy it, if anyone near me has a mill or a cnc machine, or knew anyone or anywhere that would be able to mill/machine out a 80% AR15 lower receiver thanks In case you don't know what others in this thread are talking about, BATFE has issued letters recently that essentially insinuate that they consider even loaning someone TOOLS like a drill press, bits or a jig to be the same as finishing the lower for them (which isn't legal for sure). Not really. See ruling Tom posted. They just re-iterated if you are in the business of making firearms you need a license. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 12:17:58 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not really. See ruling Tom posted. They just re-iterated if you are in the business of making firearms you need a license. Looks like it says you can't even let other people use your machines to do their own lowers. That's a pretty serious stretch as to what constitutes manufacturing. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 6:43:53 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like it says you can't even let other people use your machines to do their own lowers. That's a pretty serious stretch as to what constitutes manufacturing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Not really. See ruling Tom posted. They just re-iterated if you are in the business of making firearms you need a license. Looks like it says you can't even let other people use your machines to do their own lowers. That's a pretty serious stretch as to what constitutes manufacturing. I wonder if this includes if you rent time on someone's machines like here at Tech Shop, or some other shop? |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 9:04:35 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not if it completes 80% lowers! http://www.wired.com/2015/02/fedex-mill-untraceable-firearms/ Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Hey, in dfw, looking to buy a 80% lower, but i dont have a capable hand drill, or a mill im wanting to know, before i buy it, if anyone near me has a mill or a cnc machine, or knew anyone or anywhere that would be able to mill/machine out a 80% AR15 lower receiver thanks you can order a mill and get FedEx to ship it to you Not if it completes 80% lowers! http://www.wired.com/2015/02/fedex-mill-untraceable-firearms/ exactly why I posted my comment and specifically referred to FedEx! |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 11:40:42 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like it says you can't even let other people use your machines to do their own lowers. That's a pretty serious stretch as to what constitutes manufacturing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Not really. See ruling Tom posted. They just re-iterated if you are in the business of making firearms you need a license. Looks like it says you can't even let other people use your machines to do their own lowers. That's a pretty serious stretch as to what constitutes manufacturing. Seems to me all the rulings apply to folks in the business: Held, any person (including any corporation or other legal entity) engaged in the business Held further, a business Not sure where you see I cannot lend my DeWalt Drill to someone. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 1:15:26 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seems to me all the rulings apply to folks in the business: Held, any person (including any corporation or other legal entity) engaged in the business Held further, a business Not sure where you see I cannot lend my DeWalt Drill to someone. As long as you aren't compensated in any way. Based on their ever-broadening definition of manufacturing, they're going to define "business" the same way. When you let someone come use your stationary tools and don't touch their product in any way, you aren't manufacturing anything, they are, but the ATF doesn't see it that way. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 1:20:17 PM EDT
[#25]
Is this case law or just speculation?
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Posted: 2/28/2015 1:45:38 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is this case law or just speculation? Misunderstanding. ATF position is same as always. Just updated to reflect new technologies. |
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Posted: 3/1/2015 1:08:12 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Misunderstanding. ATF position is same as always. Just updated to reflect new technologies. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is this case law or just speculation? Misunderstanding. ATF position is same as always. Just updated to reflect new technologies. I don't think it is exactly the same as it always was. At very least it their latest letters are worded in ways that it seems like BATFE is intentionally trying to create fear, uncertainty and doubt in order to try to intimidate people from activities that were previously considered legal. |
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Posted: 3/1/2015 2:37:16 PM EDT
[#28]
It's always speculation until someone becomes the test subject....
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Posted: 3/2/2015 12:16:24 AM EDT
[#29]
You could buy a drill press from Harbor Freight around $49 on sale, and slowly carefully finish a 80%.......takes a while and careful working.
OR buy a completed finished lower for $49 and not have any problems building on that. Up to YOU |
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Posted: 3/2/2015 12:51:55 AM EDT
[#30]
It is still legal to build a firearm for your own use. Be it from scratch or finishing an 80% lower. You obviously can't ever sell it, but you can will it to someone upon your death. They're (ATF) just saying that you have to do the work yourself, and you have to own the equipment you use to complete the lower. Anything other than that puts everyone involved in violation. Don't think that has ever been different.
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Posted: 3/2/2015 1:25:53 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is still legal to build a firearm for your own use. Be it from scratch or finishing an 80% lower. You obviously can't ever sell it, but you can will it to someone upon your death. Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is still legal to build a firearm for your own use. Be it from scratch or finishing an 80% lower. You obviously can't ever sell it, but you can will it to someone upon your death. Of course you can sell it. Quoted:
. They're (ATF) just saying that you have to do the work yourself, and you have to own the equipment you use to complete the lower. Anything other than that puts everyone involved in violation. Don't think that has ever been different. No that is not what they are saying. They are saying folks in the business of helping you finish your 80% receiver need an FFL. See the GhostRunner thread - there are folks with CNC mills on a truck who come to your home or build party and help you do the work, as part of a gun business. These folks are who the ruling is addressed to. Neighbors, friends, family not in the gun business can still lend tools skill no problem. Don't know how to setup your Dillon 650? No problem friend who does can help you and they do not need an FFL. |
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Posted: 3/2/2015 8:53:00 AM EDT
[#32]
go buy the tool you need from harbor freight
use it then return it |
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Posted: 3/2/2015 6:14:17 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Of course you can sell it.. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It is still legal to build a firearm for your own use. Be it from scratch or finishing an 80% lower. You obviously can't ever sell it, but you can will it to someone upon your death. Of course you can sell it.. Thank you for the information. I was unaware that you could sell a firearm that an unlicensed individual made. |
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Posted: 3/2/2015 7:47:33 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
go buy the tool you need from harbor freight use it then return it Why not just steal it in the first place? 
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Posted: 3/3/2015 7:37:08 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Amazon Prime! You can order a mill and get free shipping! http://justmillingmachines.org/img/bbc4a240219b490d22ca61936c5d702f.jpg Link? |
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Posted: 3/3/2015 9:45:49 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why not just steal it in the first place? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
go buy the tool you need from harbor freight use it then return it Why not just steal it in the first place?
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Posted: 3/4/2015 12:45:30 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank you for the information. I was unaware that you could sell a firearm that an unlicensed individual made. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It is still legal to build a firearm for your own use. Be it from scratch or finishing an 80% lower. You obviously can't ever sell it, but you can will it to someone upon your death. Of course you can sell it.. Thank you for the information. I was unaware that you could sell a firearm that an unlicensed individual made. You can't build it for the purpose of selling it, but you can build it, decide you don't want it anymore, and then sell it. |
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Posted: 3/4/2015 7:40:57 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can't build it for the purpose of selling it, but you can build it, decide you don't want it anymore, and then sell it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It is still legal to build a firearm for your own use. Be it from scratch or finishing an 80% lower. You obviously can't ever sell it, but you can will it to someone upon your death. Of course you can sell it.. Thank you for the information. I was unaware that you could sell a firearm that an unlicensed individual made. You can't build it for the purpose of selling it, but you can build it, decide you don't want it anymore, and then sell it. Thank you. |
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