User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 2:10:38 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
So I'm an avid outdoorsman and a law biding citizen. There is a clause in the constitution that makes it the supreme law of the land, over any federal or local law or regulation. Recently I was out on our boat fishing and we were stopped by the game wardens. Not the first time this has happened but by far the worst. They asked if we had any fish and we didn't so we said so. Then without asking one of them jumps on our boat and dogs around in our ice chest. There was no blood on the boat and no signs that we had caught any fish so they had no reasonable suspicion that we had broken any law nor did they have a warrant. Is this not a direct violation of the fourth amendment? ( I am aware of the LOCAL laws on the books, however IMO those laws are against the supreme law of the land, the constitution) Additionally I was on vacation in a south Texas state park and decided that I should bring the AR along for defense from critters. Anyway I heard about the guy in San Antonio getting in a heap over his AR while hiking so I looked up the laws. Apparently it is illegal to have a firearm in a Texas state park. Yet again a violation of the constitution. Interestingly enough firearms are legal in a national park INSPECTION AUTHORITY: A game warden who observes a person engaged in an activity governed by the Texas Parks and Wildlife Code or reasonably believes that a person is or has been engaged in such an activity may inspect: any license, permit, tag, or other document issued by the department and required by the Texas Parks and Wildife Code of a person hunting or catching wildlife resources; any device that may be used to hunt or catch a wildlife resource; any wildlife resource in the person's possession; and the contents of any container or receptacle that is commonly used to store or conceal a wildlife resource. The full text of this law may be found in the Texas Parks and Wildlife Code, §12.102 or call TPWD at (800) 792-1112 (press 9, then 4381). Basically, since you're assumed to be taking part in activities related to Texas Park's and Wildlife code, they have the right to inspect any permits (boating), fishing, etc. No need for probable cause here. I see what you mean, but that's nothing anyone here can deal with. PARKS AND WILDLIFE CODE TITLE 2. PARKS AND WILDLIFE DEPARTMENT CHAPTER 12. POWERS AND DUTIES CONCERNING WILDLIFE SUBCHAPTER A. GENERAL POWERS AND DUTIES Sec. 12.104. RIGHT TO SEARCH AND INSPECT. (a) A game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may search a game bag, vehicle, vessel, or other receptacle if the game warden or peace officer has a reasonable, articulable suspicion that the game bag, vehicle, vessel, or receptacle contains a wildlife resource that has been unlawfully killed or taken |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 2:27:04 PM EDT
[#2]
Either something is left out of your story or you just happened to run into a game warden that wasn't friendly that day. Everyone I've run into whether fishing or hunting has been courteous and asked permission to board the boat/check cooler first even though they didn't really need my permission.
As for wanting to sling around an AR15 while walking around a state park goes, rule states no display or discharge of a firearm in a state park. You want protection from the squirrels that are out to get you, carry something concealed on you or in your backpack. I could understand wanting to have something like a rifle in your vehicle if you were out roughing it at Big Bend or something where there is real wildlife out at night. It's also against the rules to consume alcohol in public at a state park, but I can confirm there has been drinking going on at state parks for a long time! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 2:45:55 PM EDT
[#3]
I have often wondered if the Constitutionality of this has ever been tested.
I really think it is very damaging to the public trust to do this over at most a couple of fish. I have also wondered how a Texas Game Warden has authority on Federal Property. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 3:02:02 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have also wondered how a Texas Game Warden has authority on Federal Property. Seriously? I'll take a Game Warden anyday of the week over a Fed F&W Cop who can write thousands in tickets 
Always had good experiences with TP&W. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 3:03:23 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Apparently it is illegal to have a firearm in a Texas state park. Cite? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 3:20:08 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cite? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Apparently it is illegal to have a firearm in a Texas state park. Cite? (d) Arms and Firearms. It is an offense for any person to display or discharge an arm or firearm in a state park, unless: the person is participating in a public hunting activity within the state park that has been authorized by written order of the director so long as the person is in compliance with the applicable public hunting rules and regulations; or the person has been authorized by written order of the director. http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/spdest/parkinfo/rules_and_regulations/#5c |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 3:22:11 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
(d) Arms and Firearms. It is an offense for any person to display or discharge an arm or firearm in a state park, unless: the person is participating in a public hunting activity within the state park that has been authorized by written order of the director so long as the person is in compliance with the applicable public hunting rules and regulations; or the person has been authorized by written order of the director. http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/spdest/parkinfo/rules_and_regulations/#5c Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Apparently it is illegal to have a firearm in a Texas state park. Cite? (d) Arms and Firearms. It is an offense for any person to display or discharge an arm or firearm in a state park, unless: the person is participating in a public hunting activity within the state park that has been authorized by written order of the director so long as the person is in compliance with the applicable public hunting rules and regulations; or the person has been authorized by written order of the director. http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/spdest/parkinfo/rules_and_regulations/#5c And where does it say it is illegal to have a firearm in a state park? What you are saying and what the rule says are two different things. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 3:23:00 PM EDT
[#8]
We were in Ft. Davis. Signs everywhere about mountain lions. If I could legally own a pistol then I'd much rather have that than the much bulkier AR.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 3:24:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
(d) Arms and Firearms. It is an offense for any person to display or discharge an arm or firearm in a state park, unless: the person is participating in a public hunting activity within the state park that has been authorized by written order of the director so long as the person is in compliance with the applicable public hunting rules and regulations; or the person has been authorized by written order of the director. http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/spdest/parkinfo/rules_and_regulations/#5c That says display, not possess |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 3:44:02 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We were in Ft. Davis. Signs everywhere about mountain lions. If I could legally own a pistol then I'd much rather have that than the much bulkier AR. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 3:53:35 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you can own an AR, you can own a pistol. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We were in Ft. Davis. Signs everywhere about mountain lions. If I could legally own a pistol then I'd much rather have that than the much bulkier AR. I believe Federal Law states you have to be 18 to purchase a long rifle (AR15) and 21 to purchase a handgun. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 3:53:59 PM EDT
[#12]
Yes. But how is display defined? Is carrying the rifle on your back displaying it? It's not defined on that page
And I'm under 21. As I understand it it's illegal for me to own a handgun. Here's a link to a thread on the subject. If someone knows a way around this let me know. http://beta.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=6&t=909331 |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 3:58:04 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And I'm under 21. As I understand it it's illegal for me to own a handgun. No it's not. That's just federal ffl rules and regs. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 4:16:42 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. But how is display defined? Is carrying the rifle on your back displaying it? It's not defined on that page And I'm under 21. As I understand it it's illegal for me to own a handgun. Here's a link to a thread on the subject. If someone knows a way around this let me know. http://beta.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=6&t=909331 You only have to be 21 in order to buy a handgun from an FFL. Texas doesn't have a law against owning or buying a handgun if you're 18, so you're good to buy one in a private sale, receive as a gift, etc. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 4:32:31 PM EDT
[#15]
Concealed carry in state parks is legal.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 5:01:50 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And I'm under 21. As I understand it it's illegal for me to own a handgun. As others have mentioned, an 18 year old can own a handgun in Texas (assuming a clean criminal record, et cetera). If i were in your situation i might conceal one of these and/or carry a stout walking stick when in the great outdoors... |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 5:52:21 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You only have to be 21 in order to buy a handgun from an FFL. Texas doesn't have a law against owning or buying a handgun if you're 18, so you're good to buy one in a private sale, receive as a gift, etc. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yes. But how is display defined? Is carrying the rifle on your back displaying it? It's not defined on that page And I'm under 21. As I understand it it's illegal for me to own a handgun. Here's a link to a thread on the subject. If someone knows a way around this let me know. http://beta.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=6&t=909331 You only have to be 21 in order to buy a handgun from an FFL. Texas doesn't have a law against owning or buying a handgun if you're 18, so you're good to buy one in a private sale, receive as a gift, etc. Exactly. Someone i know may or may not have purchased their first handgun before they got their learners permit. 
Back to the OPs remarks. I find it 100% unconstitutional that a game warden can come onto your property(boat,lease,residential) and search your live well, freezers, coolers, ect, without a warrant. They can "snoop" on your property and not be charged with trespassing but because the law says they can, they typically push boundaries. I have a good friend who i s a game warden. I told him when he got out of the academy and was all "super trooper" that if he is not careful, he is going to mess with the wrong river rat and end up with cinder blocks tied to his ankles and be fish bait in a deep river somewhere. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 6:21:20 PM EDT
[#18]
This will hurt your head. Its something from the US fish and wildlife.
http://www.fws.gov/policy/445fw1.html#sect2 |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/30/2014 4:58:37 AM EDT
[#19]
When my Dad was killed in a boating accident many years ago the Game Wardens spent two days in 105 degree heat digging through piles and piles of twisted trees in a river bottom trying to find his body. I am thankful to this day for their actions. They can come in my boat anytime.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/30/2014 5:30:10 AM EDT
[#20]
They should ask to board your boat unless "game warden or peace officer has a reasonable, articulable suspicion that the game bag, vehicle, vessel, or receptacle contains a wildlife
resource that has been unlawfully killed or taken or they have a warrant. In either case they should advise you that they have a suspicion you are participating in something illegal and why they have that suspicion (they observed, someone reported). |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/30/2014 5:50:48 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Exactly. Someone i know may or may not have purchased their first handgun before they got their learners permit.
Back to the OPs remarks. I find it 100% unconstitutional that a game warden can come onto your property(boat,lease,residential) and search your live well, freezers, coolers, ect, without a warrant. They can "snoop" on your property and not be charged with trespassing but because the law says they can, they typically push boundaries. I have a good friend who i s a game warden. I told him when he got out of the academy and was all "super trooper" that if he is not careful, he is going to mess with the wrong river rat and end up with cinder blocks tied to his ankles and be fish bait in a deep river somewhere. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes. But how is display defined? Is carrying the rifle on your back displaying it? It's not defined on that page And I'm under 21. As I understand it it's illegal for me to own a handgun. Here's a link to a thread on the subject. If someone knows a way around this let me know. http://beta.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=6&t=909331 You only have to be 21 in order to buy a handgun from an FFL. Texas doesn't have a law against owning or buying a handgun if you're 18, so you're good to buy one in a private sale, receive as a gift, etc. Exactly. Someone i know may or may not have purchased their first handgun before they got their learners permit.
Back to the OPs remarks. I find it 100% unconstitutional that a game warden can come onto your property(boat,lease,residential) and search your live well, freezers, coolers, ect, without a warrant. They can "snoop" on your property and not be charged with trespassing but because the law says they can, they typically push boundaries. I have a good friend who i s a game warden. I told him when he got out of the academy and was all "super trooper" that if he is not careful, he is going to mess with the wrong river rat and end up with cinder blocks tied to his ankles and be fish bait in a deep river somewhere. That is a good warning to all of the "super troopers" out there. I've never been opposed to them taking a look in my ice chest because all of my fish are always legal and my license is always up to date however I believe that the fourth amendment stands between my ice chest and their grimey fingers. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/30/2014 5:55:45 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Anyway I heard about the guy in San Antonio getting in a heap over his AR while hiking so I looked up the laws. Apparently it is illegal to have a firearm in a Texas state park. Yet again a violation of the constitution. IMHO that guy is an idiot, yes he was within the law to carry the AR. He had to realize that the display of the AR in public was going to generate a response like he received. Just like those clowns that invaded the Chipolte restaurant with long guns slung over their shoulders, they did the cause no good when they pulled that stunt. My wife and I camp in Texas State parks at least 10 times a year and I am always armed, but concealed. I would fully expect to be stopped carrying an AR over my shoulder. Vince |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/30/2014 6:36:23 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Anyway I heard about the guy in San Antonio getting in a heap over his AR while hiking so I looked up the laws. Link to news article? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/30/2014 7:26:01 AM EDT
[#24]
This thread makes my head hurt.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/30/2014 11:14:27 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They should ask to board your boat unless "game warden or peace officer has a reasonable, articulable suspicion that the game bag, vehicle, vessel, or receptacle contains a wildlife resource that has been unlawfully killed or taken or they have a warrant. In either case they should advise you that they have a suspicion you are participating in something illegal and why they have that suspicion (they observed, someone reported). Wrong. Inspection authority ONLY APPLIES TO Game Wardens or Peace Officer's employed by Texas Parks and Wildlife(IE:TPWD Park Police). A local Municipal, County, State officer does NOT have inspection authority. Now as far as the Texas Water Safety Act, ANY PEACE OFFICER who is a certified Marine Enforcement Safety Officer(MSEO) can stop and perform a safety equipment inspection for the boat. Moreover, if you don't have any life jackets on board, ONLY a Peace Officer who is a MSEO certified can issue a citation's for violations under the Water Safety Act. In other words, a MSEO certified Peace Officer can stop you any time with the sole intent of doing a safety inspection while your on the water. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/30/2014 11:24:09 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Link to news article? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Anyway I heard about the guy in San Antonio getting in a heap over his AR while hiking so I looked up the laws. Link to news article? I apologize. I was incorrect. It was the CJ Grisham story I was thinking of |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/30/2014 6:12:10 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is a good warning to all of the "super troopers" out there. I've never been opposed to them taking a look in my ice chest because all of my fish are always legal and my license is always up to date however I believe that the fourth amendment stands between my ice chest and their grimey fingers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes. But how is display defined? Is carrying the rifle on your back displaying it? It's not defined on that page And I'm under 21. As I understand it it's illegal for me to own a handgun. Here's a link to a thread on the subject. If someone knows a way around this let me know. http://beta.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=6&t=909331 You only have to be 21 in order to buy a handgun from an FFL. Texas doesn't have a law against owning or buying a handgun if you're 18, so you're good to buy one in a private sale, receive as a gift, etc. Exactly. Someone i know may or may not have purchased their first handgun before they got their learners permit.
Back to the OPs remarks. I find it 100% unconstitutional that a game warden can come onto your property(boat,lease,residential) and search your live well, freezers, coolers, ect, without a warrant. They can "snoop" on your property and not be charged with trespassing but because the law says they can, they typically push boundaries. I have a good friend who i s a game warden. I told him when he got out of the academy and was all "super trooper" that if he is not careful, he is going to mess with the wrong river rat and end up with cinder blocks tied to his ankles and be fish bait in a deep river somewhere. That is a good warning to all of the "super troopers" out there. I've never been opposed to them taking a look in my ice chest because all of my fish are always legal and my license is always up to date however I believe that the fourth amendment stands between my ice chest and their grimey fingers. He's a good guy. Currently down on the border doing the fed's job. 
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
