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Posted: 5/26/2017 12:36:46 PM EDT
[#1]
Destructive device.
Not legal. |
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Posted: 5/26/2017 5:51:33 PM EDT
[#2]
disregard, seems this references the mossberg |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 11:03:29 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Destructive device. Not legal. 
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Posted: 5/27/2017 11:44:06 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is that the official word? Crap. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Destructive device. Not legal. |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 12:11:11 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's NJ. You're lucky you are legally allowed to breathe oxygen. |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 1:12:33 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is that the official word? Crap. I don't see how it meets the definition of destructive device, as it is not capable of firing a projectile greater than .60 caliber that is NOT shotgun ammunition generally recognized as suitable for sporting purposes. |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 1:41:45 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty sure there's been no official word - just speculation and conjecture here. I don't see how it meets the definition of destructive device, as it is not capable of firing a projectile greater than .60 caliber that is NOT shotgun ammunition generally recognized as suitable for sporting purposes.  
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Posted: 5/27/2017 4:59:07 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Stop with the reason, logic and accoutibilty
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Posted: 6/1/2017 10:29:05 PM EDT
[#9]
Damn shame. Thought the AG was suppose to rule on this.
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Posted: 6/2/2017 7:39:54 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Damn shame. Thought the AG was suppose to rule on this. ILLEGAL. |
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Posted: 6/2/2017 10:29:35 AM EDT
[#11]
I just got off the phone with NJSP Firearms division. I was told by a detective that the AG has not yet made a decision. I was also told that dealers will receive an email when a decision has been reached. If in fact I get an email with the decision one way or the other you guys will be the first to know.
Liondog I hope this didn't violate any policy, just wanting to shed some truth up in here. |
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Posted: 6/2/2017 2:28:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just got off the phone with NJSP Firearms division. I was told by a detective that the AG has not yet made a decision. I was also told that dealers will receive an email when a decision has been reached. If in fact I get an email with the decision one way or the other you guys will be the first to know.
Liondog I hope this didn't violate any policy, just wanting to shed some truth up in here. |
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Posted: 6/2/2017 3:26:50 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just got off the phone with NJSP Firearms division. I was told by a detective that the AG has not yet made a decision. I was also told that dealers will receive an email when a decision has been reached. If in fact I get an email with the decision one way or the other you guys will be the first to know.
Liondog I hope this didn't violate any policy, just wanting to shed some truth up in here. 
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Posted: 6/2/2017 4:16:26 PM EDT
[#14]
Here's to hoping they're legal. But I don't have my hopes too high.
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Posted: 6/2/2017 5:49:57 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They did. ILLEGAL. |
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Posted: 6/2/2017 7:23:02 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I missed this. When was this decision? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They did. ILLEGAL. |
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Posted: 7/10/2017 1:01:11 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 7/10/2017 1:42:40 PM EDT
[#18]
Well, that's most likely enough to dissuade any NJ FFL from transferring one - but I would question the part about "except a shotgun or shotgun ammunition generally recognized as suitable for sporting purposes".
While the Shockwave is not a shotgun, it IS designed to fire shotgun ammunition generally recognized as suitable for sporting purposes. To me, the "or shotgun ammunition" specifically EXEMPTS shotgun ammunition as qualifying a weapon as a destructive device. This may be a case on my part of selective interpretation - or at the very least, interpreting a law in favor of something being legal - which is the wrong way to go about staying on this side of the graybar hotel. |
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Posted: 7/10/2017 3:44:11 PM EDT
[#19]
I have one, but not in NJ.
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Posted: 7/10/2017 8:29:03 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryHrmmm....I could've sworn someone in this very thread said it was a Destructive Device. I just can't seem to find who said it.
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Posted: 7/11/2017 9:45:41 AM EDT
[#21]
Nappen's interpretation raises more questions. Under his opinion all pistol grip only shotguns would be destructive devices since they are not designed to be fired from the shoulder. They have been sold in NJ for years.
His handgun interpretation would also mean things like mare's leg pistols are not handguns, which again have been sold as handguns in NJ for years. I would disagree in that all of these guns can be "fired" with one hand, it's cycling the action that requires two. Are all bolt action target handguns also not handguns under the law because you need a second hand to cycle the action? |
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Posted: 7/14/2017 3:16:20 PM EDT
[#22]
You are spot on Matt. Nappen is not right. Again.
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Posted: 10/16/2017 4:47:54 PM EDT
[#23]
Just got the email from NJSP. Shockwave is legal!Also Black Aces Tactical DT and the Remington TAC-14.
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Posted: 10/16/2017 6:15:33 PM EDT
[#24]
Who is going to be first?
I've got one in a shopping cart on PSA's website and my FFL chosen... All I need to do is go upstairs and get my credit card...
@BigRaccoon can you maybe post the letter here with all your info blacked out for us to read? |
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Posted: 10/16/2017 7:06:06 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who is going to be first? I've got one in a shopping cart on PSA's website and my FFL chosen... All I need to do is go upstairs and get my credit card...
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Posted: 10/16/2017 8:46:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who is going to be first? I've got one in a shopping cart on PSA's website and my FFL chosen... All I need to do is go upstairs and get my credit card...
@BigRaccoon can you maybe post the letter here with all your info blacked out for us to read? |
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Posted: 10/16/2017 8:50:10 PM EDT
[#27]
The letter also stated that bump stocks and slide fire are not to be sold in NJ. Guess they cleared that up too.
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Posted: 10/16/2017 9:11:14 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The letter also stated that bump stocks and slide fire are not to be sold in NJ. Guess they cleared that up too. As for as the Shockwave I didn't get the usual, "THIS CANNOT BE SHIPPED TO YOUR STATE" warning when I put it in the cart on PSA. I didn't buy it because I'd like to know for sure if it's legal or not. I have to drop some paperwork off to the NJSP this week for a change of address on my FPID so I'll ask the officer about it when I go. |
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Posted: 10/17/2017 8:04:46 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The letter also stated that bump stocks and slide fire are not to be sold in NJ. Guess they cleared that up too. |
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Posted: 10/17/2017 9:24:23 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did they provide any justification other than "because we said so"? I can understand them classifying it as a telescoping stock, but that just means it can only be used on semi auto rifles without a detachable mag. |
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Posted: 10/17/2017 10:38:51 AM EDT
[#31]
So now that they are legal in New Jersey, what is everyone thinking... a Mossberg Shockwave or Remington Tac 14 ?
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Posted: 10/17/2017 11:03:59 AM EDT
[#32]
This interesting nugget of info was also included in the letter:
The required State paperwork will include the Certificate Of Eligibility and not a Permit To Purchase A Handgun & Form Of Register. Firearms with similar design and structure must fall within this definition of a firearm and must not have been manufactured as a "shotgun" (NJSA 2C:39-1n) or meet the Federal requirement of "any other weapon (AOW)" which measures less then 26 inches in overall length. The firearm must also comply with all BATF requirements. Something along the lines of this (arm brace, flash hider, and all) could potentially be legal in NJ: 
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Posted: 10/17/2017 11:31:22 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So now that they are legal in New Jersey, what is everyone thinking... a Mossberg Shockwave or Remington Tac 14 ?
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Posted: 10/17/2017 2:53:17 PM EDT
[#34]
Already have one on order through my FFL
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Posted: 10/17/2017 3:42:10 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The letter also stated that bump stocks and slide fire are not to be sold in NJ. Guess they cleared that up too. |
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Posted: 10/17/2017 7:19:07 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This interesting nugget of info was also included in the letter: That should mean AR style "firearms" over 26" OAL should be legal. Hilariously since they also are not "handguns" according to this letter (no permit to purchase required) the evil features list also wouldn't apply. Something along the lines of this (arm brace, flash hider, and all) could potentially be legal in NJ: https://i.imgur.com/R6qMq7f.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
This interesting nugget of info was also included in the letter: The required State paperwork will include the Certificate Of Eligibility and not a Permit To Purchase A Handgun & Form Of Register. Firearms with similar design and structure must fall within this definition of a firearm and must not have been manufactured as a "shotgun" (NJSA 2C:39-1n) or meet the Federal requirement of "any other weapon (AOW)" which measures less then 26 inches in overall length. The firearm must also comply with all BATF requirements. Something along the lines of this (arm brace, flash hider, and all) could potentially be legal in NJ: https://i.imgur.com/R6qMq7f.jpg
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Posted: 10/17/2017 7:20:20 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Already have one on order through my FFL It's too bad it's been put on the back burner now, I just had to pay $3k to fix my driveway. |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 4:41:23 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That should mean AR style "firearms" over 26" OAL should be legal. Hilariously since they also are not "handguns" according to this letter (no permit to purchase required) the evil features list also wouldn't apply. Something along the lines of this (arm brace, flash hider, and all) could potentially be legal in NJ: BUT, you gain nothing, as it can not have a stock. You can add an arm brace, but the barrel would need to be about 12".
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Posted: 10/18/2017 7:51:12 PM EDT
[#39]
From Evan Nappen,
UPDATE: An email was recently sent out to FFLs in New Jersey with a message from “THE NJSP FIREARMS INVESTIGATION UNIT.” It stated “…Mossberg Model 590 Shockwave, Black Aces Tactical DT and the Remington TAC-14. The New Jersey State Police Firearms Investigation Unit concurs with the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) that these pistol grip only designed firearms are legal for sale in the State of New Jersey as a firearm.” ?I respectfully believe the NJSP are wrong. See my article here. |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 8:33:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From Evan Nappen, UPDATE: An email was recently sent out to FFLs in New Jersey with a message from “THE NJSP FIREARMS INVESTIGATION UNIT.” It stated “…Mossberg Model 590 Shockwave, Black Aces Tactical DT and the Remington TAC-14. The New Jersey State Police Firearms Investigation Unit concurs with the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) that these pistol grip only designed firearms are legal for sale in the State of New Jersey as a firearm.” ?I respectfully believe the NJSP are wrong. See my article here. I need to pay down my credit card to buy one of these now. |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 8:35:11 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So now that they are legal in New Jersey, what is everyone thinking... a Mossberg Shockwave or Remington Tac 14 ? |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 9:33:31 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From Evan Nappen, UPDATE: An email was recently sent out to FFLs in New Jersey with a message from “THE NJSP FIREARMS INVESTIGATION UNIT.” It stated “…Mossberg Model 590 Shockwave, Black Aces Tactical DT and the Remington TAC-14. The New Jersey State Police Firearms Investigation Unit concurs with the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) that these pistol grip only designed firearms are legal for sale in the State of New Jersey as a firearm.” ?I respectfully believe the NJSP are wrong. See my article here. |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 9:34:02 PM EDT
[#43]
see above
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Posted: 10/19/2017 9:21:42 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From Evan Nappen, UPDATE: An email was recently sent out to FFLs in New Jersey with a message from “THE NJSP FIREARMS INVESTIGATION UNIT.” It stated “…Mossberg Model 590 Shockwave, Black Aces Tactical DT and the Remington TAC-14. The New Jersey State Police Firearms Investigation Unit concurs with the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) that these pistol grip only designed firearms are legal for sale in the State of New Jersey as a firearm.” ?I respectfully believe the NJSP are wrong. See my article here. |
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Posted: 10/19/2017 9:55:28 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've read it's best to prepare crow over low heat, with a salt/pepper rub, to an internal temperature of 185°F Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Who is going to be first? I've got one in a shopping cart on PSA's website and my FFL chosen... All I need to do is go upstairs and get my credit card... Can you really blame me though? Everything cool and fun is usually illegal. But you're right, I prefer my crow to be extra crispy; like my bacon. It tastes better.
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Posted: 10/19/2017 12:18:58 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WTF? Just what we need. Who's side is he on? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
From Evan Nappen, UPDATE: An email was recently sent out to FFLs in New Jersey with a message from “THE NJSP FIREARMS INVESTIGATION UNIT.” It stated “…Mossberg Model 590 Shockwave, Black Aces Tactical DT and the Remington TAC-14. The New Jersey State Police Firearms Investigation Unit concurs with the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) that these pistol grip only designed firearms are legal for sale in the State of New Jersey as a firearm.” ?I respectfully believe the NJSP are wrong. See my article here. |
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Posted: 10/19/2017 6:05:54 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
like I said.. this asswipe (NAPPEN) crows all the time "FREEDOM" but is the first one to say" The NJSP is wrong" I had dealings with him before..HE IS A BLOWHARD! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
From Evan Nappen, UPDATE: An email was recently sent out to FFLs in New Jersey with a message from “THE NJSP FIREARMS INVESTIGATION UNIT.” It stated “…Mossberg Model 590 Shockwave, Black Aces Tactical DT and the Remington TAC-14. The New Jersey State Police Firearms Investigation Unit concurs with the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) that these pistol grip only designed firearms are legal for sale in the State of New Jersey as a firearm.” ?I respectfully believe the NJSP are wrong. See my article here. |
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Posted: 10/19/2017 6:12:16 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can you really blame me though? Everything cool and fun is usually illegal. But you're right, I prefer my crow to be extra crispy; like my bacon. It tastes better. But hey... in three more months, damn near everything's going to be illegal, so what the hell, right? |
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Posted: 10/19/2017 8:24:46 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nope, can't blame you at all. I'm frankly a little shocked that the NJSP seems to have interpreted the law objectively. Further surprised (and a little disappointed, frankly) that the guy who "wrote the book" on NJ Firearms law wants to push hard to make them illegal (or seems to, with his interpretation and the discounting of the part about firing shotgun ammunition with a sporting purpose). But hey... in three more months, damn near everything's going to be illegal, so what the hell, right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Can you really blame me though? Everything cool and fun is usually illegal. But you're right, I prefer my crow to be extra crispy; like my bacon. It tastes better. But hey... in three more months, damn near everything's going to be illegal, so what the hell, right? |
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Posted: 10/29/2017 5:32:03 PM EDT
[#50]
So who's going to be the first in NJ to own a AWS Trench 12?
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