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Posted: 10/23/2016 6:20:14 PM EDT
I was fortunate enough to get some range time in this weekend and ended up at ... for about 45 min. The range officer came up to me on the line and struck up a convo about how much "everyone loves the SBR." I thought I corrected him when I said "don't you mean pistol?" But he showed me someone on the line who rented one of their 10 inch short barrel rifles. I saw it with my own eyes. It had a short barrel and a stock. He told me they are a class 3 dealer.
Here is my confused face  |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 6:37:40 PM EDT
[#1]
Even class 3 dealers cannot possess a SBR here (technically a "sawed off shotgun" under NJ law).
You sure it wasn't a machinegun? dealers can have those |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 6:47:10 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even class 3 dealers cannot possess a SBR here (technically a "sawed off shotgun" under NJ law). You sure it wasn't a machinegun? dealers can have those ETA I was there for almost an hour and the guy renting the supposed SBR nearly the same amount of time. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 6:57:45 PM EDT
[#3]
SBR is illegal in NJ, no way no how. Even the NJSP sent their new sbr AR's back for 16 inchers when who ever calls the shots found out.
ETA. Odd now that I think about it. I guess homeboy forgot that their Benellis have fourteen inch barrels. |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 12:29:10 PM EDT
[#4]
Subsections a., b. and c. of N.J.S. 2C:39-5 do not apply to:
..... (2)A licensed dealer in firearms and his registered employees during the course of their normal business.... |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 1:07:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Subsections a., b. and c. of N.J.S. 2C:39-5 do not apply to:
..... (2)A licensed dealer in firearms and his registered employees during the course of their normal business.... Show me where in here it includes SBRs aka "sawed off shotguns" in NJ: 2C:39-5 Unlawful Possession of Weapons
a.Machine guns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession a machine gun or any instrument or device adaptable for use as a machine gun, without being licensed to do so as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-5, is guilty of a crime of the third degree. b.Handguns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique handgun without first having obtained a permit to carry the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is guilty of a crime of the third degree. c.Rifles and shotguns. (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, is guilty of a crime of the third degree. |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 2:19:54 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Subsections a., b. and c. of N.J.S. 2C:39-5 do not apply to:
..... (2)A licensed dealer in firearms and his registered employees during the course of their normal business.... You're right you win. |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 2:24:16 PM EDT
[#7]
So... perfectly legal then?
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Posted: 10/25/2016 2:26:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So... perfectly legal then? Quote HistoryQuoted:
So... perfectly legal then? No See my post above. Subsections a., b. and c. of N.J.S. 2C:39-5 are machine guns, handguns, rifles, and shotguns. That's why they can have machineguns. Nothing in there allows them to have "sawed off shotguns" (SBRs/SBSs under Federal law). ETA: here is the administrative code that makes it very clear: 13:54-1.3 Firearm identification card or permit to purchase required
(a) No person, other than a licensed or registered retail or wholesale dealer, shall receive, purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle, shotgun or antique cannon, other than an antique rifle or shotgun, unless that person possesses and exhibits a valid firearms purchaser identification card. No person shall sell, give, transfer, assign or otherwise dispose of a rifle, shotgun or antique cannon to a person other than a licensed or registered retail or wholesale dealer unless the buyer or receiver possesses and exhibits a valid firearms purchaser identification card. No person shall sell or acquire a sawed-off shotgun. |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 3:38:07 PM EDT
[#9]
2C:39-1o defines the term:
"Sawed-off shotgun" means any shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length measured from the breech to the muzzle, or a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length measured from the breech to the muzzle, or any firearm made from a rifle or a shotgun, whether by alteration, or otherwise, if such firearm as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches. 2C:39-3b - bans possession: Any person who knowingly has in his possession any sawed-off shotgun is guilty of a crime of the third degree. 2C:39-9b - bans sale: Any person who manufactures, causes to be manufactured, transports, ships, sells or disposes of any sawed-off shotgun is guilty of a crime of the third degree. 2C:58-3k - bans purchasing/acquiring: Nothing in this section shall be construed to authorize the purchase or possession of any sawed-off shotgun The only exceptions to any of the above are for LEO/military. There are no exceptions for dealers. |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 6:00:28 PM EDT
[#10]
Hmm.. your right, but obviously there must be some exception were not seeing. They have been renting SBRs for over three years. I think the first was a G21 in a RONI stock. If it was illegal in NJ the ATF would not be approving their forms.
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Posted: 10/25/2016 6:20:29 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hmm.. your right, but obviously there must be some exception were not seeing. They have been renting SBRs for over three years. I think the first was a G21 in a RONI stock. If it was illegal in NJ the ATF would not be approving their forms.   |
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Posted: 10/26/2016 8:14:54 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmm.. your right, but obviously there must be some exception were not seeing. They have been renting SBRs for over three years. I think the first was a G21 in a RONI stock. If it was illegal in NJ the ATF would not be approving their forms. They are likely manufacturing the SBRs themselves on a form 2. The examiners don't really know the ins and outs of every states laws, I'd bet Form 2s get little to no scrutiny beyond verifying the FFL number is valid and it's filled out correctly. |
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Posted: 10/26/2016 8:53:16 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are likely manufacturing the SBRs themselves on a form 2. The examiners don't really know the ins and outs of every states laws, I'd bet Form 2s get little to no scrutiny beyond verifying the FFL number is valid and it's filled out correctly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hmm.. your right, but obviously there must be some exception were not seeing. They have been renting SBRs for over three years. I think the first was a G21 in a RONI stock. If it was illegal in NJ the ATF would not be approving their forms. They are likely manufacturing the SBRs themselves on a form 2. The examiners don't really know the ins and outs of every states laws, I'd bet Form 2s get little to no scrutiny beyond verifying the FFL number is valid and it's filled out correctly. Let me know when you all want this thread to disappear.... 
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Posted: 10/26/2016 8:58:16 AM EDT
[#14]
Tack it.
PSA and all.. |
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Posted: 10/26/2016 11:06:08 AM EDT
[#15]
I guess technically as an SOT you can register pretty much anything as a machinegun, maybe that's what they're doing? Still kind of a gray area at best under NJ law having a machinegun on paper that's not functionally a machinegun.
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Posted: 10/26/2016 5:49:28 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess technically as an SOT you can register pretty much anything as a machinegun, maybe that's what they're doing? Still kind of a gray area at best under NJ law having a machinegun on paper that's not functionally a machinegun. Maybe they put in an M16 BCG? 
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