Anything I need to know about bringing a gun to the range?

So...say I'm driving to Bayonne from Jersey City, or PA for that matter.  Do I need an FID card to shoot at the range?  Or just make sure my pistol and mags are in separate containers locked in the trunk, and don't stop anywhere between home and the range?  Any details I should know?

Let me.get this straight. You're moving from Texas to New Jersey? TEXAS TO NEW JERSEY? Not to mention you're moving to Jersey City. It's one of the most anti-gun cities in the state.

Why? Did you lose a bet?

You're going to need an FPID card. But even having that won't save you from jail. I'm not sure but you'll be in possession of an illegal weapon even if you legally bought it in Texas. No, you won't need an FPID to shoot at the range. Just a driver's license. You just need the FPID for everything else. Your pistol, mags and ammo all need to be separated and locked.

Your best course of action is, whatever is bringing you to New Jersey isnt worth the loss of your freedom. DO NOT MOVE HERE. Seriously, STAY OUT OF NEW JERSEY.

LMAO  ^^^^^^^^^ What he said.

There are definitely better places to live than JC. As far as firearms go magazine limit is 15rds for handguns and rifles. No flash hiders are allowed on you rifles. Brakes are ok but they have to be pinned and welded. Absolutely no SBRs of any kind. Good luck getting a CCW permit in NJ it just does not happen. No pistol grips on semi-auto shotguns allowed but ok for pumps. Seriously consider commuting from PA into work. Pennsylvania is way more gun friendly. It doable but not for everyone.

Unfortunately, I don't really have much of a choice.  It was either living in Brookyln or Jersey City.  JC seems to be the lesser of two evils.  It's a short term deal, though.

With 15rd mags, all my guns should be good to go if I understand you correctly.  I don't have a flash hider installed on any of my guns.

So back to my original question: I don't need an FID card if I just want to drive to the range and shoot?  I plan to bring my own ammo.  I also heard you can buy ammo in PA and bring it back to NJ, is that right?  

As far as transporting a firearm, am I OK as long as they are locked in the trunk in, say, a range bag.  Can a loaded mag be inserted into the gun, or must it be in a separate container, or in the same container as the firearm?  Just trying to understand the local laws here.

As far as being pulled over with guns...Wouldn't the local police need a probable cause to search my trunk?  I'm having a hard time understand why I would go to jail as long I do things legally.

Having a loaded mag is the same as having a loaded gun. DO NOT HAVE A LOADED MAGAZINE INSERTRD INTO YOUR GUN. DO NOT HAVE A LOADED MAGAZINE IN YOUR RANGE BAG.

Probable cause? You've never been to NJ have you? In NJ we're all criminals and victims. The police do what they want. Just because you're legal doesn't mean shit in NJ. My wife worries every time I go to the range and my range is 15 minutes away.

You can buy ammo in PA and bring it into NJ. You can have ammo shipped to your house. Hollow points are legal to possess in your home and at the range. That's pretty much all I shoot out of my lever action and revolvers. You CANNOT transport them anywhere else. If you have hollow points in your home and you move, they stay with the home. There is no provision in the law for moving. Regular ammo is fine. Just not hollow points. When I bring hollow points to the range I try to not bring any home.

ALL as in ALL of your muzzle devices on AR pattern rifles MUST be pinned / welded. NO EXCEPTIONS.

You can transport UNLOADED firearms. Pistols must be locked. Long guns don't have to be locked but generally I lock everything. Ammo must be in a separate bag also locked. Magazines can be with your weapons but they cannot be loaded and they cannot be loaded into the firearm.

Long guns you can make reasonable stops. Handguns if you stop to take a piss you are a felon.

Nothing for nothing, you're making a mistake moving here even short term. Visiting this state is a mistake. I was born and raised here and it was a mistake. I would seriously reconsider moving here. There is nothing in New Jersey worth losing your freedom over.

You're assuming an FID with some of those.  Without an FID, long arms are treated the same as handguns.

There's no actual statute requiring that any firearm be locked...  only secured in a case, OR locked in a trunk.  No statute requiring ammunition to be locked, or even stored separately.  Those are FOPA requirements, not NJ state requirements.

There's no SPECIFIC statute on loaded magazines - but rather a strong recommendation from firearms attorneys that a loaded magazine could be construed as having a loaded firearm.

To the OP:  yes, PC is still required to search any locked containers in a vehicle, including the trunk - anything not in the "immediate grabbable area".  However, stranger things have happened.  "I smell marijuana" is a technique often used on younger drivers, and depending on how you handle yourself in a basic traffic stop, a K-9 search of the vehicle (and of COURSE they'll "hit" on your vehicle) isn't unusual, either (someone I know was pulled over - in my town, to boot - for having an air freshener hanging from the rear-view window.  What ensued was a two-hour ordeal, where they were removed from the vehicle, a K-9 brought in, the vehicle subsequently searched, torn apart on the side of the road, absolutely nothing found, and left there to put it all back together.  I believe she was also instructed that if anything was left on the side of the road, she'd be charged with littering).

Once it's discovered that you're transporting firearms, most police aren't going to understand the nuances of our transport exemptions (2C:39-6f), and will think that possession of firearms without a Firearms ID card is illegal.  You won't be prosecuted - you probably won't even be charged, but you'll probably be arrested.  Getting your firearms back after that will be a challenge, probably requiring the services of an attorney, and probably exceeding the value of the confiscated firearms.  Hence why the same attorneys that advise against having loaded magazines also strongly advise on obtaining an FID card, even though it's not legally required.

I get that you have to do what you have to do, and if you have to live temporarily in Jersey City, well - so be it.  But, if it's going to be a long enough stay that you can't be without your firearms, then you really should consider applying for a Firearms ID card - just to save some of the potential hassle.

And, just to humor us here - run down the list of firearms you intend to bring into the state.  We don't want you accidentally becoming a felon in possession of an illegal assault firearm.

Yes, I was assuming FID card and I was also being overly cautious in my responses. I CYA when I load up for the range by locking everything up. I know it's not necessary but I'd rather go overboard then do nothing and get fucked.

Whether you go overboard or do nothing, a fuckin is still a fuckin

This is absolutely true. Especially in NJ.

I haven't gotten my front windows tinted yet; now I'm considering taking my Tiny Tree down from the rearview

I'm looking at something similar, and my thread on the subject went about like this one has. People who live there, telling you that you don't want to live there.

So move here and let us have "told you so"  

It's not that I don't believe you...

I do not understand people living there who hate it so much.

I have a great job with great benefits and great pay and work for a family run enterprise. Living here is not black and white as some people make it out to be.

Exactly.

What's not to understand? This state treats you like property. If you own guns your treated like a criminal. It's expensive to live here, crowded, taxes are insane, if you want to leave you need to pay an exit tax, people are assholes. This state fucking sucks.

I moved out of here in early 2002 because I fucking hate NJ and didn't come back until 2005 because I made a really dumb mistake that cost me my job. My family is here and I had nowhere else to go, otherwise I would have never come back.

Here it is 11 years later and I'll be getting the fuck out of here again because I hate it.

NEPA is where its at. Im considering moving just over the border. Its amazing that right over the line you can CCW, possess NFA, and transport with no harm/no foul and on the other side you become a felon with a target on your back.

11 years back in a place you knew was the worst place in existence?  Didn't Andy Dufresne make it out of Shawshank sooner than that?  

Yeah well, when you've completely ruined your career and your credit and spent several years living paycheck to paycheck while you fix things you kind of stuck.

Andy was in Shawshank for nearly 30 years before he escaped. So I'm way ahead of Andy.

I lived in Downtown  JC for many years and still work there. Are going to shoot at the Bayonne  PD Range ?

The first time you go the RO will probably  ask you to see your FID..

Gun for Hire has a better  range.  Goggle them for directions , they are very close to JC.


Make sure to stop in at Caso's Gun A Rama gun shop in the Greenville  area of Jersey  City.


Should you have any questions, PM me.

Good luck and welcome.

You will  enjoy  Downtown JC and Hoboken.

I lived in Jersey City for 11 years... For work and the wife.  I was finally able to get the freak out of there back in 2001.  I don't like to say NEVER, but I'll NEVER live in New Jersey ever again.  My main issues was their gun laws, crime and taxes.  Also, the fact that every time I went out to the range or if I had to defended myself, I could return home a convicted felon AFTER getting azz raped in the Hudson County Jail.  Granted that I now live in Washington State, the Seattle area, a very liberal area BTW, but our gun laws are still very reasonable and you still can buy anything you want to include SBRs and silencers.

I truly wish you well in Jersey City, but coming from Texas and like guns... Jersey isn't the place for, but again, I wish you well.  FYI, after jumping through all the BS and getting the permits, I was able to buy a Ruger Mini-14, S&W Model 4006 and a Glock 19 while living there, so its possible to enjoy the shooting sports, but its definitely NOT a gun friendly place AND owning guns makes you almost a semi-crook in the eyes most of the cops.

As for cops needing probable cause to search your car... HA!!  That's funny!!

Seriously, good luck with the move!!

I live in JC so if you have any questions about the area, let me know.

As far as gun laws, that's been pretty well covered here.
15rds max
No flash hiders
Pinned/ welded muzzle device (if you have one)
Pinned/ non-adjustable stocks
For handguns, keep it unloaded in the trunk while traveling to FFL, range, home.
For rifles, you can transport it unloaded in trunk while traveling to FFL, range, home. If you get an FID, you are exempt from the travel restrictions. Still must be secured and unloaded, but you can go about your day with it in the trunk.
Don't worry about hollow points. You can have them at your home and at the range but since you cant carry here, I don't know where else you would have them. As long as you aren't driving around and have boxes in your car, you will be fine.

Either people here have way to many run-in with cops or they are exaggerating but as long as you aren't retarded and do something idiotic, you shouldn't have a problem with the police searching your car and seizing stuff. Ive been pulled over for speeding a couple of times and never had an issue yet.

For ranges, Gun For Hire in Woodland Park is the awesome-about 25 min away. Only downside is its all in doors but its pretty much a brand new facility. All the employees and RO's are pretty awesome. If you want to drive a little further, Old Bridge is a good place too and is outdoors.

No problem having ammo shipped to your home in NJ.

Incorrect.  No loaded long guns at all.  To do so is a violation of 2C:39-5c(2):

Whoops. Good catch. Corrected in my original post. I was thinking of the travel exemptions with FID for rifles/shotgun.

You forgot he must remove the dangerous bayonet lugs!

Wow, so things have really changed.  \\I remember back when you could walk into any gun store and look at any gun, now you need your FID card to look at one.

And after reading this thread, apparently you should have your FID card on you anytime you have your firearms with you?  I never did that, I always kept my FID in the safe with my SS card and birth certificate.

There's no legal requirement to have your FID on your person.  The only time you actually need to have it is when purchasing firearms or purchasing handgun ammunition.

But - consider this.  You're coming back from the range, and only transporting a rifle.  You stop along the way to get some coffee.  One thing leads to another, and somehow, a cop learns that you are in possession of a firearm.  Well, according to the law, outside of the exemptions, one is in illegal possession of a rifle or shotgun unless one has first obtained a FID card.  You have obtained an FID card - it's at home in your safe.  How does the cop know that?  Unless you have a very understanding cop, AND know your FID number, and he's willing to look it up and verify that you are not actually in violation of the law, he has a duty to arrest you.  You'll sort it out later, of course, but...

And aside from legal arguments, it would just make any LEO interactions just a bit smoother.  Not every cop understands the nuances of 2C:39-6 (the exemptions).  Some cops think you have to have an FID to transport a handgun (false).  Some stores think you have to show an FID to purchase ANY ammunition (false).  It's just easier all around to have it in your wallet, next to your DL.  Laminate it to prevent it from falling apart (ignore any admonishment from any PD to the contrary - there's nothing anywhere that says you can't laminate the card.  It's designed to fall apart unless laminated).

That makes sense.

On that same note, it seems like it would also make sense to carry the copy of your Permit to Purchase Handgun when driving with it.

I have a ziplock bag in my range bag that contains every permit for every firearm I've ever purchased. There is also a copy of every permit for every firearm I've ever purchased in each and every rifle/pistol bag/case AND there is an envelope in the glovebox in my truck that contains a copy of every permit for every firearm I've ever purchased.

There are copies of copies of copies in my gun safe and a smaller fire safe.

Speaking of which, I need to make a bunch of copies of the SKS permit.

Guys,

I'm looking at shipping a couple long guns here.  Can I have them shipped to an FFL in PA and pick them up that way?  I already own the guns, but they are in my mother-in-law's house in Texas.  

Regarding the FID card, I'm looking at applying for one, but I understand I need two references.  Must they be NJ residents?  Can they be relatives?

Not without an FID.  The FFL is going to need to perform a transfer of the firearms to you.  That means filling out a 4473.  That also means, per federal law, the FFL has to follow the laws of both his state (PA) and your state of residency (NJ).  NJ law requires you to have an FID.

I realize you "own" the firearms - but it's not about ownership - it's about possession.  Currently, they are in your MIL's possession.  As you both now reside in separate states, the only legal way to transfer possession is through an FFL.  And any FFL is bound by the laws of NJ for transferring firearms.  As an NJ resident (I'm assuming you're now residing in JC) you won't be able to get your guns until you get an FID card.

They do not have to be NJ residents.  Per the STS-33 form, they can not be relatives.

IF you are not already an NJ resident. DONT APPLY YET!
The fid card must match your drivers license to be able to buy anything here. So, if your fid has an out of state addy and your DL is in state, it's no good for purchases!

I hope this wasnt mentioned already, Im on my way out of the door and cant read the entire thread.

If they are his guns and just temporarily stored at his MIL, he shouldnt have a problem shipping them to himself here in NJ.
If your MIL is the registered owner of the rifles, then you will need a FFL to do this exchange legally. A PA FFL will do it for you if you have a NJ FID with matching drivers license, and the rifles are NJ compliant

I realize we're making a lot of assumptions here, but without clarification from the OP - this is what I'm assuming:

- OP is currently a resident of NJ
- OP's MIL is a resident of Texas
- The MIL is in possession of the firearms (unless they're secured in a safe to which the MIL has no access)

Based on that - if the MIL were to box them up and ship them to the OP, they'd both be violating federal laws regarding transfer of firearms between residents of different states.

If they truly are still in OP's possession (and here's where the concept of 'constructive possession' comes into play...  meaning under one's dominion of control.  Contrary to popular belief, it has nothing to do with having parts to build something), then legally yes, OP could ship them to himself.  He'd have to travel back to Texas, box them up, and send them via USPS to himself in NJ (as no contract carrier will accept a shipment of a firearm that's not coming from, nor going to, a license holder.  Legal per federal law, but against company policies).

The fact that the OP was talking about "have them shipped to me" says to me that he had no intention of travelling back to TX to get them, and also implied that they were under the control of another person - hence possessed by someone else, necessitating an FFL transfer.

Correct that it needs to match DL.  

I live in Bayonne and they even did a 'neighbor check' on me when I moved to NJ and applied for my FID (which took about 7 months to get).  Police literally came and talked to my neighbors which I confirmed happened.  It was pretty troubling considering their teenager was sort of troubled and asked me about my guns one time because he was there for the 'neighbor check'.

OP, if you're new here do NOT go the range called Bullet Hole.  Dangerous place.

I was very nervous about this when I first moved here. I live in an apt complex. I dont know my neighbors. They dont know me. I dont want anyone telling them I may or may not have guns in my apt. Thankfully JC police dont do that.

How so?

Do your self a favor,  stay out of that shithole.

I've never been to bullethole but I will say Gun for Hire Woodland Park is 25 min away from us in JC. Highly recommended

This ^^^^^^^

I've been going there for 20+ years.  But I haven't been there for the last 5-6 years.

What's the problem?


As for Gun For Hire, I always saw his truck parked across the street from the Bullet Hole.

So I was doing some research on this part thru other forums and looked at the laws that apply. People said that they have shipped rifles or handguns to themselves at other addresses. The ATF website says the package should be addressed to themselves "in care of ______" (the person who resides at that address) . The person at the new address is not allowed to open the package because then he/she would be considered to have taken possession of that firearm. So wouldn't the reverse apply here? If the rifles happened to be already packed up and sealed in boxes, the MIL technically wouldn't have possession of them. It shouldn't be a problem for her to drop them off at USPS and ship it. Or am I missing something else here?

I'm certainly no legal authority, and if one were to embark down this road, it would certainly be prudent to seek actual legal counsel on this.  However, I believe that in the case of one shipping firearms to themselves in care of a third party - that possession of the firearm doesn't transfer to the actual package recipient,  as it's still considered "in transit by the carrier"...  just as the UPS guy doesn't have to fill out a 4473 when he delivers a package containing a firearm.

Such "carrier exceptions" don't apply if the firearm has not yet been transferred to a carrier, as is the case with your example.  Even if we assume that the firearms are wrapped up in a box, and not sitting in a gun safe - the fact that they're sealed behind cardboard and packing tape does nothing to insulate the MIL from being in possession of the firearms.  The MIL does not enjoy any kind of status as a common or contract carrier.  The fact that she would be the one to deliver the firearms to the carrier indicates her possession of those firearms.  Simple logic dictates that for one to deliver a thing to a carrier for shipment, one must first be in possession of said 'thing'.

Something I forgot to mention in my original reply to this.  We also mustn't forget about 2C:39-2b...  the "guilty until proven innocent" statute.  It reads:

So...  any time you have some kind of encounter, and are doing something that requires you to have obtained an FID first...  you're PRESUMED guilty of that offense, unless and until you can PROVE otherwise.