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Posted: 11/21/2015 12:45:31 PM EDT
If someone of you did not know, the European Union is trying to ban all semiautos and do all kind of harm for gun owners. Now or never, it is time for us to get together and fight for our rights to own firearms.

Go check this out: http://www.toiminta-ampujat.fi/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=31

It is a Finnish shooting forum where bunch of shooters started to take actions to stop EU´s intentions, for example, by spreading the word around europe.There you can find very wide scale of information, starting from Finnish officials statements about the directive translated to english and much more. All material on that forum is free to use and spread.

And do not forget to sign this petition against the directive: https://www.change.org/p/council-of-the-european-union-eu-you-cannot-stop-terrorism-by-restricting-legal-gun-ownership

Go and spread the word in every possible forums. There is still too many people who don´t know that EU is trying to take their rights to own guns.
Link Posted: 11/23/2015 11:15:08 AM EDT
[#1]
It was relayed on all French forums. We're working to take it "offline" : let people know that they have to sign this and also contact their representatives ASAP.

Here in France we have a hard time getting hunters involved (they can only own and hunt with C firearms) as they're in total denial thinking they're "safe" and that our semi-auto/B guns can be banned without consequences for them. Hardcore delusion.
Link Posted: 11/24/2015 1:56:11 AM EDT
[#2]
It is present in nearly every firearm related forum in Germany.

But we have some problems too. Some (the "old school" / old fashioned) hunter refuses to sign, because they hate "these evil assault-rifle-guns" and are glad if they get banned.
Most of the air-rifle folks also see no need in signing this petition, because they think they are out of reach.

I can't believe how easily these people toss their rights away and will not even fight back a little bit.
I hate this german mentality "if the boss/president/whoeverincharge order it, I must obey".
Link Posted: 11/24/2015 12:14:45 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It is present in nearly every firearm related forum in Germany.

But we have some problems too. Some (the "old school" / old fashioned) hunter refuses to sign, because they hate "these evil assault-rifle-guns" and are glad if they get banned.
Most of the air-rifle folks also see no need in signing this petition, because they think they are out of reach.

I can't believe how easily these people toss their rights away and will not even fight back a little bit.
I hate this german mentality "if the boss/president/whoeverincharge order it, I must obey".
View Quote


NO under the current wording all airguns that look like firearms and airsoft is Category C as well. This will mean at least registration

Link Posted: 11/25/2015 3:49:04 AM EDT
[#4]
I know and I tried to convince the Airsoft community, but most of them seem to think that the law will only apply to "real guns".
Again, I can't believe how ignorant those people are. In the last days I sounded like a broken record, telling everyone what's going on over and over again.
Most of them are shocked and don' get it, why the government is trying to disarm the people. But if you send them the link or ask them so sign the petition... "why, I don't have any guns, it will not affect me"

Srsly, dafuq


I wrote some mails to politicians and asked my AR-15 manufacturer, what they are doing. Everyone is in a state of disbelief and shook, because it is happening so fast. They (EU) timed it perfectly, leaving no time to react properly.
Link Posted: 11/25/2015 12:46:49 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I know and I tried to convince the Airsoft community, but most of them seem to think that the law will only apply to "real guns".
Again, I can't believe how ignorant those people are. In the last days I sounded like a broken record, telling everyone what's going on over and over again.
Most of them are shocked and don' get it, why the government is trying to disarm the people. But if you send them the link or ask them so sign the petition... "why, I don't have any guns, it will not affect me"

Srsly, dafuq .
View Quote

That sounds too familiar. Here in Finland most of the old school hunters believes that restrictions don´t have impact on their bolt actions. Too many of them says that evil assault rambo guns should be banned. Hypocrite bastards, as most of crimes committed with legal, registered guns is done with hunting shotguns.
Link Posted: 11/27/2015 6:21:23 AM EDT
[#6]
Share this stuff on Facebook, Twitter , blogs etc

https://youtu.be/wSDDJkSxmCw
Link Posted: 12/3/2015 12:12:52 PM EDT
[#7]
So, how does the situation looks like around europe? Has your officials given any statements about the directive? How about the citizens or the non gun owners, are they accepting the possible bans or agaisnt it? Has the mass shootings in the US affected on peoples or officials opinions?

Our government is trying to get reservation(not sure is this the right word for it) according to national defense and our geopolitical location(1300kilometers common borderline with Russia), so it seems that we´re not going to get any bans on any kind of firearms but we can´t get too confy with this.

We all still need to fight against this shit!
Link Posted: 12/3/2015 2:17:11 PM EDT
[#8]
Czech got the balls to give the finger to the EU! Nice!
Parliament of the Czech republic CHAMBER OF DEPUTIES 2015 7th term of office
.
PROPOSAL OF THE RESOLUTION Committee for the European Union 40th session December 2nd 2015
in regard to Information about the European Parliament and European Council Proposal to amend Directive 91/477/EHS on control of the acquisition and possession of weapons /document code 14422/15, KOM(2015) 750 final/
Committee for the European Union of the Chamber of Deputies of the Parliament of the Czech republic, after hearing of the Deputy Minister of Internal Affairs Mgr. Monika Pálková, after hearing of the report of the Deputy Roman Vána, and after debate

1. disagrees   with intent of the European Commission to restrict acquisition and possession of firearms that are possessed and used legally in accord with internal law of EU Member states;

2. rejects   any Commission's interference with functional system of control, evidence, acquisition and possession of firearms and ammunition that is set in the law of the Czech republic;

3. claims support   to establishing of all functional measures that follow goal of elimination of illegal trade, acquisition, possession and other manipulation with firearms, ammunition and explosives;

4. opposes   European Commission's attempt to persecute Member States and their citizens by unjustified restrictions on legal firearms ownership, as a reaction on tragic events associated with terror attacks in Paris;

5. recommends to Prime Minister of the Czech Republic   to take all legal and diplomatic measures to prevent passing Directive that would be infringement on Czech law in regard to trade, control, acquisition and possession of firearms, thereby inappropriately infringing on rights of citizens of the Czech republic.

Ondrej Benešík certifier Head of Committee
View Quote
Link Posted: 12/7/2015 7:53:43 PM EDT
[#9]
Go Czech !
Link Posted: 12/8/2015 1:06:06 PM EDT
[#10]
nice CZ !
Link Posted: 12/8/2015 1:36:18 PM EDT
[#11]
I am hearing on other forums that the proposed ban is being driven into the ground right now and is looking certain to fail, can anyone confirm?
Link Posted: 12/9/2015 1:58:25 AM EDT
[#12]
The first version of the new legislation was presented on Monday.
There was quite some debate about this paper and it seems that most of the politicians did not agree with it (in parts or completely). The massive amount of emails sent from all over Europe seems to have worked.
There were some surprisingly good speeches and some... uninformed ones. Mainly from (no surprise) left winged / green party members.

The question is: will the commission witch is in charge of this legislation, change the proposal or will they stay on their path to dictatorship.

If they stay and this legislation would pass the European Commission, this EU-law is still no local-law. So each country has to make their own version of it and they can be different from a lot.

So, it is not over yet.
Link Posted: 12/9/2015 5:54:55 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I am hearing on other forums that the proposed ban is being driven into the ground right now and is looking certain to fail, can anyone confirm?
View Quote


Wouldn't get all that cocky but the Commission formally presented their proposal to the "Internal Market and Consumer Protection" committee and it was received with some healthy skepticism from MPs.

Most MPs said the proposal was unclear/vague and that there was no security gain criminalizing gun owners who follow current law.

Once all MPs had been able to comment/ask formal questions, the commissioner was pissed that MPs questioned his motives and the value of the proposal. He then went full retard. Thanks buddy, your mouth-foaming sure didn't look sensible!

The other only rabid anti-gunner was French MP Pascal Durand a Green Party member who graced us with a few good old lies. There's one thing: he's very open/plain regarding his disdain of civilian firearms ownership.


Good news is: the Finnish MP who was openly hostile to the change will take the lead on the subject. Still a long way to go ...
Link Posted: 12/14/2015 5:06:49 AM EDT
[#14]
German "Forum Waffenrecht" throwing AK owners under the bus ?

http://www.fwr.de/was-gibt-es-neues/newsdetails/stellungnahme-des-forum-waffenrecht-zum-aenderungsvorschlag-der-europaeischen-kommission-fuer-die-europaeische-feuerwaffenrichtlinie/


Ziel ist die AK 47 Kalschnikow

Die im Forum Waffenrecht zusammengeschlossenen Nutzerverbände sehen jedoch konstruktionsbedingt keinen sportlichen oder jagdlichen Nutzen der bei den Anschlägen ausschließlich genutzten Varianten des Gewehrs „Kalaschnikow“.

Vor diesem Hintergrund ist auch der § 6 Abs. 1 Nr. 2 lit. c) der Allgemeinen Waffengesetz-Verordnung zu verstehen, der mit der Forderung einer Hülsenlänge von 40 Millimeter exakt die Kalaschnikow vom Schießsport ausschließen soll. Beide Kalaschnikow-Alternativen
(AK 47 und AK 74) nutzen Patronen mit einer Hülsenlänge von 39 Millimeter.

Es wird daher vorgeschlagen, statt undifferenziert in die Eigentumsrechte einer Vielzahl von Jägern und Sportschützen einzugreifen, zielgerichtet mit der Forderung von mindestens 40 Millimeter Hülsenlänge bei Zentralfeuerbüchsenmunition und einer Lauflänge von mindestens 40,6 cm (16“) eben die besagte Kalaschnikow bzw. kurzläufige Selbstladelangwaffen militärischen Ursprungs auszuschließen.
View Quote


Banning rifles with barrels < 16" and using shell casings < 40mm from hunting and target shooting.

To German members, who are those sell-outs ? Are they a significant group or are they just some sock puppets so that the German administration can pretend "it had a fruitful conversation with gun owners" ?
Link Posted: 12/14/2015 12:56:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Now that will stop terrorism.
Link Posted: 12/15/2015 2:35:37 AM EDT
[#16]
Ah, this shit again.

They try to minimize damage to the german gun community by forcing our stupid laws on other countries. Forum Waffenrecht is one of the largest pro-gun community in Germany.
But Jea, the gun-"community" in Germany has a tradition in slaughtering each others rights, to prevent damage to the own people (sport vs hunting v's collecting).

This is called the "Sankt Florian Prinzip": https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sankt-Florian-Prinzip
In short, it is protecting the own interests by sending the problems to others.
In addition to that, many of the gun-owner only shoot .22 and don't care about this problem OR even like the idea of banning any other weapons "as long as i can shoot the way i want, everything is fine".

But the FWR is not "the" german gun lobby and many people disagree with this position. But as you can see on their homepage-header... 22lr rifles and Olympia. That's their mindset.

We also have PROlegal and the German Rifle Association and these two lobes/communities fight like nothing before. They work closely together with firearms united which may eventually become our European NRA (i hope so).
In addition to them, there are many very active forum Members across all forums:

http://www.gunboard.de/topic/55792-europa-hat-ein-problem-mit-feuerwaffen/?page=50
http://www.waffen-welt.de/showthread.php?t=8829&page=37
http://forum.waffen-online.de/topic/443132-die-eu-will-ein-verbot-von-halbautomatischen-gewehren/page-112
http://waffenforum.gun-forum.de/index.php/Thread/64116-Risiko-durch-EU-das-Ende-der-halbautomatischen-Waffen/?pageNo=81&s=25c1c4de5e0a039bfef08a529d596d089ff352e7
Link Posted: 12/15/2015 2:36:09 AM EDT
[#17]
Short explanation to german law:
In Germany, Sportshooters can not own Semiautos with a barrel length under 16,75" and a shell casing 40mm, if the rifle looks like a select-fire rifle.
So, AK-clone in 7,62x39 is a no-go, AK-47-clone in 5,56x45 is (theoretically) okay. For now...

This do not apply to hunter, who can have semi-autos as short as  60cm (23,622") overall lenth (with 30cm (11,811") barrel with bold lenth).
(Thats why I can own an 10,5" AR15 for hunting, but can not use it for sportshooting).


So the FWR tries to prevent the damage to their people by sacrificing the AKs bought by a few hunters. That other countries may use the AK-design a lot more than we in Germany... they are either not aware of that problem due its international nature OR they simply don't care.


Quoted:
Now that will stop terrorism.
View Quote


Na, these laws are not designed to stop terrorism. They are designed to minimize the amount of weapons available to the citizens of the EU. And the semi-rifles are only the beginning. The next step will be a UK-like law and then.....
Link Posted: 12/15/2015 6:30:48 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Short explanation to german law:
In Germany, Sportshooters can not own Semiautos with a barrel length under 16,75" and a shell casing 40mm, if the rifle looks like a select-fire rifle.
So, AK-clone in 7,62x39 is a no-go, AK-47-clone in 5,56x45 is (theoretically) okay. For now...

This do not apply to hunter, who can have semi-autos as short as  60cm (23,622") overall lenth (with 30cm (11,811") barrel with bold lenth).
(Thats why I can own an 10,5" AR15 for hunting, but can not use it for sportshooting).
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Short explanation to german law:
In Germany, Sportshooters can not own Semiautos with a barrel length under 16,75" and a shell casing 40mm, if the rifle looks like a select-fire rifle.
So, AK-clone in 7,62x39 is a no-go, AK-47-clone in 5,56x45 is (theoretically) okay. For now...

This do not apply to hunter, who can have semi-autos as short as  60cm (23,622") overall lenth (with 30cm (11,811") barrel with bold lenth).
(Thats why I can own an 10,5" AR15 for hunting, but can not use it for sportshooting).


Ohh the subtleties !
Looks like each and every country has some dumb shit on the books.

Quoted:
Na, these laws are not designed to stop terrorism. They are designed to minimize the amount of weapons available to the citizens of the EU. And the semi-rifles are only the beginning. The next step will be a UK-like law and then.....


It seems PM Cameron is in full-blown My Little Fascist mode calling for a ban on "high powered semi-auto rifles" in the EU. Color me surprised.

No official position from the French Gov but we know some bureaucrats here in France have an instant hard-on when they hear talks about an UK-style gun ban.

Let's keep fighting and writing to our reps.
Link Posted: 12/15/2015 1:02:14 PM EDT
[#19]
Yeah I posted it in the UK forum here.

The UK is pushing this freedom hating shit is not a real surprise as in the past the UK pushed replica restrictions on EU level.

The UK has never met a weapon control law it did not like, shame really how far they have fallen even with a Conservative government.









Link Posted: 12/16/2015 9:03:01 AM EDT
[#20]
http://www.parlament.gv.at/PAKT/EU/XXV/EU/08/82/EU_88221/imfname_10597711.pdf

First round of comments from EU Governments regarding the change proposal.

I haven't gone through all of them. The French government seems to be OK with most of the shit and only offers semantic/phrasing adjustments.

Link Posted: 12/17/2015 7:25:27 AM EDT
[#21]
Thanks for posting
Does France say anything about alarm guns and other replica's (*my French is really bad) ?

and

Go Czech rebublic!

Link Posted: 12/17/2015 9:37:11 AM EDT
[#22]
Here's the change by the EC


EC
In paragraph 1, the following paragraphs are added:
‘1f. For the purposes of this Directive, ‘alarm and signal weapons’ shall mean portable devices with a cartridge holder having a gas exit to the front, aside or on the top, which are specifically designed and constructed for the purpose of raising alarm or sending a signal and which are only designed to fire blanks, irritants, other active substances or pyrotechnic ammunition.
1g. For the purposes of this Directive, ‘salute and acoustic weapons’ shall mean firearms specifically converted for the sole use of firing blanks, for use in theatre performances, photographic sessions, movies and television recordings.
View Quote


French government wants a much looser definition of alarmt/signal weapons (1.f) and wants blank-firing guns (1.g) to remain in their original category (typically A or B). Nice touch of playing the victim card as they say that blank firing guns which were restored to fire actual ammo where used in the terrorist attacks of January 2015 in Paris


French Gvt
1.f “For the purposes of this Directive, "alarm weapons” shall mean object or device that may or may
not have the apparence of a firearm, originally designed and intended to provoke only a sound or
flash effect by the percussion of the ammunition and which characteristics exclude the firing or the
conversion for the firing of any projectile, excluding all modified real firearms.”

1.g “For the purposes of this Directive, "salute and acoustic weapons" shall mean firearms specifically
converted for the sole use of firing blanks, for use in theatre performances, photographic sessions,
movies and television recordings. These modified weapons remain in their original classification ».
View Quote


There's also talk about "replicas" which seems aimed at replica black powder guns, not really airsoft. French Gvt wants an unified definition of "historic firearms" as there are two different cut-off dates (Schengen agreement says 1870, EU rules say 1900).

They stay silent regarding the semi-auto guns ban (= approval).

They want to expand the definition of "parts" to encompass and regulate more stuff. It seems at the EU level, things are close to what Germans do: only barrel/chamber, bolt/breech are considered essential parts. The French Gvt wants to push our French definition of essential parts and is on board with the EU. Germans seem to be OK to go along on condition that definitions are a bit more accurate.
Link Posted: 12/17/2015 10:03:27 AM EDT
[#23]
Germany:

2. Prohibiting semi-automatic firearms resembling automatic firearms: Annex I, part II
Annex I is amended insofar as semi-automatic firearms for civilian use resembling automatic
firearms now belong to category A and therefore are to be banned.
www.parlament.gv.at
15060/15 MK/jg 55
ANNEX DGD 1C EN/FR
This provision is not comprehensible in its present shape. It is not based on the fact that, for
construction reasons, the weapon is more dangerous. Instead, the provision is purely based on
physical appearance and therefore does not lead to greater security. The reasoning of the draft does
not clarify why this is the case. Furthermore, this arrangement is too imprecise to be a suitable
ground for a ban: When would a semi-automatic firearm sufficiently resemble an automatic
firearm? An arrangement that can be implemented in practice is of special significance because the
Member States would have to terminate the possession of such weapons since, according to the
draft, it is no longer possible to grant exceptional authorizations. Instead of the mere looks of a
weapon, technical criteria should be decisive.
Therefore the provision requires further discussion.
View Quote

Link Posted: 12/17/2015 10:04:06 AM EDT
[#24]
New category A: additional prohibited firearms
It is planned to prohibit the following firearms: automatic firearms which have been converted into
semi-automatic firearms; semi-automatic firearms which resemble weapons with automatic
mechanisms; firearms under category A after having been deactivated.

From a security point of view prohibiting automatic firearms which have been converted into semiautomatic
firearms deserves consideration. At least certain automatic firearms converted into semiautomatic
firearms are more likely to have their automatic firing capability restored.

Prohibiting semi-automatic firearms which resemble weapons with automatic mechanisms is not
reasonable (see above).

Whether or not prohibiting the acquisition and possession of deactivated prohibited firearms has to
be mandatory needs to be examined.
View Quote


complete pdf: http://www.parlament.gv.at/PAKT/EU/XXV/EU/08/82/EU_88221/imfname_10597711.pdf
Link Posted: 12/17/2015 1:17:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 4:08:34 PM EDT
[#26]
Germany is with us!
Germany has no tolerance for EU arms law tightening
DTS NEWS AGENCY
Saturday, December 19 2015 08:22 GMT

The Federal government slows down the planned tightening of the EU Firearms Directive. This emerges from a confidential report of the German representation in Brussels for the mainstream press, "Der Spiegel".

There German representative announced in an internal meeting of the EU member states, that they will implement the planned stricter rules governing the possession and sale of weapons to individuals at the earliest within two years. The European Commission would like, however, that this is already happening within three months after entry into force of the Directive.

At the meeting the German representatives also criticized the planned Brussels ownership ban for particularly dangerous-looking semi-automatic weapons that resemble weapons of war and therefore can spread more fear.

The mere "similarity to certain types of weapons is not a criterion which is applicable in practice", quoted the German representatives in the report. Since EU member states like the Czech Republic, Austria and Finland criticize the details of the reform, the draft directive should be corrected.

Officially informed the competent federal ministry, they had no "final positioning" to the reform, but wanted to "actively participate in the deliberations."

View Quote
Link Posted: 12/20/2015 8:23:58 AM EDT
[#27]
Sweden and Denmark just fucked gun owners on the deactivation front.

The EU was busy with unified rules on firearm deactivation , this would have been an improvement for the retarded Dutch situation were handguns and other Semi auto's had to been sawed in half.

Sweden and Denmark for some freedom hating reason pushed for a open ended system were countries could apply stricter regulation.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2015.333.01.0062.01.ENG&toc=OJ:L:2015:333:TOC
Link Posted: 1/14/2016 3:49:50 PM EDT
[#28]
You all should check this out: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/news-room/20160106IPR09167/Committee-on-Civil-Liberties-Justice-and-Home-Affairs-meeting-14012016-%28PM%29
The commission is getting a pretty hard time by MEPs. Especially I´m goddamn proud of our Finnish MEP Jussi Halla-aho, his speech starts from 2:06, he´s not getting the commission to get away easy. He also is one of ours as a shooter and a gun owner.
Link Posted: 1/14/2016 6:35:51 PM EDT
[#29]
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