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Posted: 2/10/2016 1:14:27 AM EDT
Can someone explain the place to me.  I don't understand what it is politically/legally.  

You can go there, but you have to sign up for events?
You can not go there unless you are a hippy doing a study?
You can treat it like a National Forest (Camping, fires, drinking beers)?

It doesn't appear to be a National Park...

Is the whole thing really as big as it looks on the map, the size of Carson national forest at least?

Wiki says the government bought it, but it also says that recreation is limited to reservation and event scheduling?

The actual web page for the area is shit.
Link Posted: 2/10/2016 7:11:51 AM EDT
[#1]
dont really know of the technicalities of it but yes it really is that big. the best views are on the north side accessed by a forestry road out of Espanola.
Link Posted: 2/10/2016 11:53:52 AM EDT
[#2]
It's only 13 miles x 13 miles. Here is more information: http://www.nps.gov/vall/planyourvisit/things2do.htm  Their other website has been down for a while. You just fill out a form with all the activities you're going to do and pay the fees.

No hunting except the special draws. You can camp in the 'backcountry' but can't have a fire and have to be so far away from the roads and trails.  There is one developed campground on the preserve and only one shared fire pit for the whole campground.
Link Posted: 2/10/2016 1:55:48 PM EDT
[#3]
This may raise more questions than it answers.  The National Parks Service took over management of the Valles Caldera National Preserve last year.  Previously, the VCNP had been tasked with becoming profitable within 20 years, with an evaluation being done at 15 years to determine how the VCNP would be handled after the 20 years.  Given the restrictions placed on the use of the property, there was no way the VCNP would be self sustaining financially.  So as the 15 year time frame was approaching, the discussion turned to which government agency would take over the VCNP.  The two primary options were turning it over to the forest service or the National Parks Service.  NPS got the nod, and they have been handling the VCNP since last year.  

With the NPS taking over, there have been a number of changes.  The VCNP has both opened up some opportunities, as well as restricted previously available opportunities.  For example, elk hunting was previously done through a true lottery system completely separate from the New Mexico Game and Fish draw system.  Now the elk tags are drawn through the NMG&F regular draw process.  Elk hunters previously had free run of almost the entire property, with extensive vehicle access.  Other than employees of the VCNP and people doing studies on the property, almost no one else was present during the elk hunts.  There was no camping on the VCNP, with the exception of the Banco Bonito staging area.  Overnights on the VCNP were not allowed, unless you were staying in one of the cabins on the VCNP.  Now, elk hunters can camp on the VCNP, but have to be a significant distance from a road.  The previously available vehicle access is significantly reduced, making some areas of the VCNP difficult to hunt.  There are no restrictions on non-elk hunters being present during the bow elk hunts.

Under the old arrangements, fishing was limited to certain sections of the rivers.  You were assigned a particular section of river, and you did not fish outside of that section.  You had to reserve your particular day and section using their website.  You were only allowed to drive your vehicle to your section.  (Actually, I am not even sure they would let you drive there.  They may have required you to be driven in their van.)  If you wanted to hike, with the exception of one trail, you had to reserve the date, time and particular trail you wanted to hike.  You would arrive at the main entrance and they would drive you to the start of your trail head.  After completing your hike, you waited at the trail head for the van to return to pick you up.  Hiking was only available on a few specific trails.

Under the new arrangements, they provide 24 vehicle passes per day to access a limited number of roads.  These can be reserved or obtained on a first come first served basis.  But there are far fewer restrictions on where you go once you are on the VCNP.  You can fish on the streams with requirement to only fish a certain section.  You can hike where you want, with a few exceptions.  Backcountry camping permits are now available.  While there were always other activities available, such as mountain biking and snow skiing, they have broadened those activities as well.  Most of the activities available are listed on their website.  

Overall, it is designed to increase public use of the land, at the expense of a some of what made the VCNP such a special place.  I will say, I am glad to see they are restricting vehicle access somewhat during the elk calving season.  The VCNP already has the second lowest elk calf survival rate in the state.  They are also restricting public vehicle access during the rifle and muzzleloader elk seasons.  But public access is still allowed during the bow hunts.  And this has caused some friction between non-hunters and hunters.

Overall, I think it is still unclear how things will change on the VCNP.  But it is certainly worth a trip up there to see one of the most unique areas in the state and the country.  There is so much to see beyond what can be viewed from the road passing through.  I feel fortunate to have been able to access areas that are now closed to the public, such as Obsidian Valley on the north side of Cerro del Medio.  This area is completely closed off to public access.  (I will admit this is probably a good idea.  The sight of countless boulders of obsidian lying everywhere might be too irresistible to some and the obsidian would disappear quickly.  I don't know of many places on this earth where there is so much obsidian just lying around.)
Link Posted: 2/10/2016 7:11:39 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This may raise more questions than it answers.  The National Parks Service took over management of the Valles Caldera National Preserve last year.  Previously, the VCNP had been tasked with becoming profitable within 20 years, with an evaluation being done at 15 years to determine how the VCNP would be handled after the 20 years.  Given the restrictions placed on the use of the property, there was no way the VCNP would be self sustaining financially.  So as the 15 year time frame was approaching, the discussion turned to which government agency would take over the VCNP.  The two primary options were turning it over to the forest service or the National Parks Service.  NPS got the nod, and they have been handling the VCNP since last year.  

With the NPS taking over, there have been a number of changes.  The VCNP has both opened up some opportunities, as well as restricted previously available opportunities.  For example, elk hunting was previously done through a true lottery system completely separate from the New Mexico Game and Fish draw system.  Now the elk tags are drawn through the NMG&F regular draw process.  Elk hunters previously had free run of almost the entire property, with extensive vehicle access.  Other than employees of the VCNP and people doing studies on the property, almost no one else was present during the elk hunts.  There was no camping on the VCNP, with the exception of the Banco Bonito staging area.  Overnights on the VCNP were not allowed, unless you were staying in one of the cabins on the VCNP.  Now, elk hunters can camp on the VCNP, but have to be a significant distance from a road.  The previously available vehicle access is significantly reduced, making some areas of the VCNP difficult to hunt.  There are no restrictions on non-elk hunters being present during the bow elk hunts.

Under the old arrangements, fishing was limited to certain sections of the rivers.  You were assigned a particular section of river, and you did not fish outside of that section.  You had to reserve your particular day and section using their website.  You were only allowed to drive your vehicle to your section.  (Actually, I am not even sure they would let you drive there.  They may have required you to be driven in their van.)  If you wanted to hike, with the exception of one trail, you had to reserve the date, time and particular trail you wanted to hike.  You would arrive at the main entrance and they would drive you to the start of your trail head.  After completing your hike, you waited at the trail head for the van to return to pick you up.  Hiking was only available on a few specific trails.

Under the new arrangements, they provide 24 vehicle passes per day to access a limited number of roads.  These can be reserved or obtained on a first come first served basis.  But there are far fewer restrictions on where you go once you are on the VCNP.  You can fish on the streams with requirement to only fish a certain section.  You can hike where you want, with a few exceptions.  Backcountry camping permits are now available.  While there were always other activities available, such as mountain biking and snow skiing, they have broadened those activities as well.  Most of the activities available are listed on their website.  

Overall, it is designed to increase public use of the land, at the expense of a some of what made the VCNP such a special place.  I will say, I am glad to see they are restricting vehicle access somewhat during the elk calving season.  The VCNP already has the second lowest elk calf survival rate in the state.  They are also restricting public vehicle access during the rifle and muzzleloader elk seasons.  But public access is still allowed during the bow hunts.  And this has caused some friction between non-hunters and hunters.

Overall, I think it is still unclear how things will change on the VCNP.  But it is certainly worth a trip up there to see one of the most unique areas in the state and the country.  There is so much to see beyond what can be viewed from the road passing through.  I feel fortunate to have been able to access areas that are now closed to the public, such as Obsidian Valley on the north side of Cerro del Medio.  This area is completely closed off to public access.  (I will admit this is probably a good idea.  The sight of countless boulders of obsidian lying everywhere might be too irresistible to some and the obsidian would disappear quickly.  I don't know of many places on this earth where there is so much obsidian just lying around.)
View Quote


From my experience during the elk hunt last fall there is absolutely ZERO enforcement of the closed roads. Some of them had signs saying the road was closed but most didn't or they had been moved or knocked over. Also, with the number of researchers and rangers driving around all of the roads, it was impossible to know if they were supposed to be there or not.  Hopefully they come up with a better solution to that.

Althought I was REALLLLY glad to run into someone driving down the road when I was packing out my elk
Link Posted: 2/10/2016 8:37:17 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

From my experience during the elk hunt last fall there is absolutely ZERO enforcement of the closed roads. Some of them had signs saying the road was closed but most didn't or they had been moved or knocked over. Also, with the number of researchers and rangers driving around all of the roads, it was impossible to know if they were supposed to be there or not.  Hopefully they come up with a better solution to that.

Althought I was REALLLLY glad to run into someone driving down the road when I was packing out my elk
View Quote


Interesting.  Not sure how I would react to seeing another hunter driving on a road I had been forbidden to access.  I probably will never get the chance to find out.  There are a LOT of people out there driving roads as part of their research studies.  We ran into people frequently.  At that time, they seemed very understanding of what we were doing and made efforts to make sure they were not interfering with us.  My impression from talking with people who spent every week out there during elk season is that new management takes a much different view to the issue of hunting access and hunting in general than the previous management.  I may not like the current arrangements, but they are much better than a complete ban on hunting, which is common in National Parks.
Link Posted: 2/14/2016 2:42:51 AM EDT
[#6]
I love that place. I worked there, part time, for several years, and know a lot of the nooks and crannies of the place
. I fell into a great situation last year. I bought a cabin that borders the Baca/VCNP/The Ranch
The fence that separates our property is 25 feet away from my back porch.
I feel lucky since I doubt that there are more than 10 pieces of private property that abut the Ranch.
99 percent of the adjacent property is U.S. Forest Service.

Last year, I went to the cabin one week of every month from April thru November.

Beautiful area where I lived many years.
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