Pistol/ straight wall cartridges for deer - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Pistol/ straight wall cartridges for deer (Page 2 of 4)

Posted: 4/9/2017 3:29:04 PM EDT

[#1]

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I was thinking .30 carbine was on the list for some reason, and I got all excited thinking I wouldn't need to buy a rifle. Nope, no such luck.

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The only war story grandpa ever told about the Korean war was a little deer running across the road guy next to him opened up with his carbine deer keep running till grandpa put a 3006 into it they ate it for supper thaaat night

Posted: 4/9/2017 4:54:17 PM EDT

[#2]

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Quoted:
I was thinking .30 carbine was on the list for some reason, and I got all excited thinking I wouldn't need to buy a rifle. Nope, no such luck.

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I thought so also, but I would guess it had too much taper.

Posted: 4/9/2017 5:58:48 PM EDT

[#3]

357 cal and larger

Posted: 4/9/2017 7:33:14 PM EDT

[#4]

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I thought so also, but I would guess it had too much taper.

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Not too much taper. The first two years handguns were .357 or larger straight wall, 4" barrel or longer. When they went to the list of approved calibers they used those criteria to make the list. .30 carbine is too small of diameter. So is another old round I'm a big fan of-.351 Winchester.

Posted: 4/12/2017 8:01:57 PM EDT

[#5]

So according to the IDNR this was the guy to talk to about adding calibers to the approved list and his response to my email

Posted: 4/13/2017 9:13:23 PM EDT

[#6]

Sounds like gov branstad signed this today correct? Looks like my wallet will be a little lighterin a few days. Any thoughts on a 45 70 marlin?

Posted: 4/13/2017 9:27:24 PM EDT

[#7]

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Quoted:
Sounds like gov branstad signed this today correct? Looks like my wallet will be a little lighterin a few days. Any thoughts on a 45 70 marlin?

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Haven't looked to see if this was signed-but the bill including stand your ground and the like was signed-I'm pretty sure it's a different bill.

As for a Marlin, since the big clearance at Walmart is long over I'd get a Henry instead. With Marlin's sloppy QC they are NOT a $600 rifle. I paid $299-$50 rebate and had minor issues with the front sight, at $299 I was happy. At $589 I'd have been pissed.

Posted: 4/13/2017 9:40:18 PM EDT

[#8]

Yes it was signed if i was buying a marlin it would have to be a used pre freedom group (iirc thats what it was called)

Posted: 4/13/2017 9:52:56 PM EDT

[#9]

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Quoted:
Yes it was signed if i was buying a marlin it would have to be a used pre freedom group (iirc thats what it was called)

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Yep-look for a JM marked barrel and look up serial numbers ahead of time. Avoid anything from immediately before the Freedom Group takeover. Not sure on recent Marlin date codes but they're available on a google search.

Posted: 4/14/2017 3:02:46 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
Sounds like gov branstad signed this today correct? Looks like my wallet will be a little lighterin a few days. Any thoughts on a 45 70 marlin?

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The Gov did some autographing yesterday.
the BillBook says: 04/13/2017 Signed by Governor. H.J. 1009.

https://www.legis.iowa.gov/docs/pubs/hjweb/pdf/April%2013,%202017.pdf#page=13

I found a Ruger M77 bolt gun in 44M. They quit making them in 2016 but I found some new ones with camo stock and placed my order for one yesterday. I'm guessing when the word gets out these will disappear quickly.

Posted: 4/14/2017 9:51:18 PM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
Sounds like gov branstad signed this today correct? Looks like my wallet will be a little lighterin a few days. Any thoughts on a 45 70 marlin?

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http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_93/1651146_Marlin-1895-45-70

Posted: 4/14/2017 10:04:01 PM EDT

[#12]

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Quoted:

I found a Ruger M77 bolt gun in 44M. They quit making them in 2016 but I found some new ones with camo stock and placed my order for one yesterday. I'm guessing when the word gets out these will disappear quickly.

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I wanna shoot it!

Posted: 4/15/2017 5:42:11 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:

The Gov did some autographing yesterday.
the BillBook says: 04/13/2017 Signed by Governor. H.J. 1009.

https://www.legis.iowa.gov/docs/pubs/hjweb/pdf/April%2013,%202017.pdf#page=13

I found a Ruger M77 bolt gun in 44M. They quit making them in 2016 but I found some new ones with camo stock and placed my order for one yesterday. I'm guessing when the word gets out these will disappear quickly.

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Nice rifles ive seen them with internally suppressed barrels how cool would that be? Im holding out for my dream of a 450 bushmaster

Posted: 4/16/2017 2:57:37 AM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:

I found a Ruger M77 bolt gun in 44M. They quit making them in 2016 but I found some new ones with camo stock and placed my order for one yesterday. I'm guessing when the word gets out these will disappear quickly.

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I bought one about a month ago, along with a SiCo Hybrid. I still haven't shot the thing yet but they are really nicely built and compact guns. Should be a great youth gun and fun to play with using sub loads. I need to quit farting around and send mine off for threading, then start working up loads.

Posted: 4/16/2017 12:20:44 PM EDT

[#15]

I bought a CVA Apex single shot in 223Rem and am having the barrel stubbed with a 357 Maximum barrel. Without pushing it, 140gr FTX bullets can make 2550-2700fps, while shooting sub 1 moa groups.

If you want to do the same, get a T/C Encore or Contender in 357 Rem Mag and have it re-chambered for the longer 357 Maximum cartridge.
Some of us are trying to get Blaser to offer a 357 Maximum barrel for the K-95 single shot stalking rifle.
The other options is an E. Arthur Brown custom barrel for your Encore: EABCO

Posted: 4/16/2017 11:16:19 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
I bought a CVA Apex single shot in 223Rem and am having the barrel stubbed with a 357 Maximum barrel. Without pushing it, 140gr FTX bullets can make 2550-2700fps, while shooting sub 1 moa groups.

If you want to do the same, get a T/C Encore or Contender in 357 Rem Mag and have it re-chambered for the longer 357 Maximum cartridge.
Some of us are trying to get Blaser to offer a 357 Maximum barrel for the K-95 single shot stalking rifle.
The other options is an E. Arthur Brown custom barrel for your Encore: EABCO

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No need to rechamber the Contender barrel, Maximum is/was made as a factory chambering, and barrels are available. There used to be at least two on the EE-long term listings with little interest so they may or may not still be there. I had one for a while, trimmed my barrels until all I have is my .45-70(seemed to be the only one that ever got used). .357 Maximum barrels in decent shape usually bring $200-$225.

Posted: 4/17/2017 1:08:08 AM EDT

[#17]

The 357 maximum seems like an interesting option. I nosed around for a couple of nights on Mike bellm's page and it seems like he kind of pigeon holes it to really only being good if you can buy his rare and expensively sourced 180 gr bullets. In that specific platform it seems to be a great performer, but it really can't do anything that my custom smokeless 45 muzzle loader can do. Especially in a single shot platform, and my ML can be used during shotgun and late ML season and I hunt both. A 195 gr Barnes bullet at 2500-2600 fps is sub MOA at 200 yards and pretty good deer medicine. So other than being able to suppress it, 357 Max really offers me nothing that I can see.
Some of the same could be said for my 77/44 project, but at least it is a repeater and much lighter, shorter, and handier than my 10+ lb smokeless ML so it will be easy for the kids to handle. And it can still be suppressed while shooting 300 gr subs capable of killing short range deer and other critters. That's my thought process anyway...

Posted: 4/19/2017 2:36:10 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
The 357 maximum seems like an interesting option. I nosed around for a couple of nights on Mike bellm's page and it seems like he kind of pigeon holes it to really only being good if you can buy his rare and expensively sourced 180 gr bullets. In that specific platform it seems to be a great performer, but it really can't do anything that my custom smokeless 45 muzzle loader can do. Especially in a single shot platform, and my ML can be used during shotgun and late ML season and I hunt both. A 195 gr Barnes bullet at 2500-2600 fps is sub MOA at 200 yards and pretty good deer medicine. So other than being able to suppress it, 357 Max really offers me nothing that I can see.
Some of the same could be said for my 77/44 project, but at least it is a repeater and much lighter, shorter, and handier than my 10+ lb smokeless ML so it will be easy for the kids to handle. And it can still be suppressed while shooting 300 gr subs capable of killing short range deer and other critters. That's my thought process anyway...

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.357 Maximum was all but killed when Ruger recalled their Blackhawks in the caliber. It was designed for 180+ grain bullets. They're long enough to seal the cylinder gap until pressure begins to drop and prevent flame cutting of the topstrap. People started loading 110-125 grain bullets in the longer cases for extreme velocity, the bullets passed the cylinder gap when pressure was at its peak and they started eating the topstraps. Lots of guns went back to Ruger for repair. Ruger decided to recall them, and from what I hear if you send a .357 Maximum Blackhawk for repair now you won't even get it back, if anything they'll give you trade credit for something current. The company is determined to get the Maximums back. Not sure what they'd do if you refused and demanded your gun be returned as-is.

Since a cylinder gap would be a non-issue in a rifle, I'd like to see what kind of velocity would be possible with those same light bullets in a 16-20 inch barrel. I never chronographed anything when I had a 10" Contender barrel for it, 180 grain handloads had about the recoil of low to mid level .357 magnum loads from a 6" revolver. Nothing like the punishing monster it's made out to be-but maybe that's because I'm used to my .45-70 barrel.

Posted: 4/19/2017 9:38:35 PM EDT

[#19]

It does seem like a cool cartridge but it sounds like the good 180 gr bullets (with a decent BC) are hard to find and expensive. Unless Bellm is overstating the issue just to sell his custom bullets, which even he seems to have trouble getting. It would still probably be a great 150 yard gun with standard bullets, but factory .44 will do that. If the selection of 180 gr bullets were better I would probably be in. I was looking into a .460 rifle until I watched a few youtube videos, talk about recoil lol.

Posted: 4/20/2017 2:06:30 AM EDT

[#20]

I hesitate to bring this up because someone is going to freak out about the voodoo involved in reloading but here is something to look at. True .357 Maximum bullets are .357 diameter but the rifle version are .358. It is feasible for the dedicated, experienced reloader to use these bullets in this cartridge in a rifle. It has been shown more than once that 8mm bullets of .311/.312 can be fired w/o damage in .308 diameter barrels. This was performed in bolt actions which are much stronger than the lever( if one could find one or had a custom job performed) and break actions that those using this cartridge would be using but here we are talking only .001 which is not that great of a difference. One would have to start low and carefully work up loads and restrict bullets to those similar to the Hornady .358 200 gr. FTX which is designed to function properly at muzzle velocities of 1600-2600 fps. An older (7th ed.) Hornady manual shows 1600-1650 possible with .358 200 gr bullets out of a 10" T/C barrel in the T/C data section. There may be other bullets out there that fit the velocity profile needed to get a good performing bullet that will expand but I would imagine they are out there.

Perhaps some of you already realize this but some may not. I haven't looked to far into this recently but had wanted to do something similar years ago and just didn't get it done. If this helps someone else accomplish this then all the better.

Posted: 4/20/2017 5:24:51 PM EDT

[#21]

RiverRat raises two important points here. Of course the main concern is using the right sized bullet for your bore. The second has to do with impact velocity, and making sure you select a bullet that matches the velocity expectations of your rifle, animal hunted, and the range involved. It's easy to choose a too tough or two soft of a bullet for your game, read the bullet makers recommendations carefully and completely.

Posted: 4/20/2017 6:45:36 PM EDT

[#22]

0.358" bullets are not a big deal at all. Especially if the gun has been shot a bunch. As long as the round chambers you are fine.

Oh and RiverRat 8mm is actually 0.318" or 0.323" Not the 0.311 as you stated. That would be the 54R, 7.7Jap., 7.65 Argie, x39,....

Posted: 4/20/2017 9:53:00 PM EDT

[#23]

I've made several calls to the DNR about adding the 450 bushmaster to the approved list so far thats gone nowhere they dont know anything dont answer or return calls

Posted: 4/21/2017 1:51:47 AM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
0.358" bullets are not a big deal at all. Especially if the gun has been shot a bunch. As long as the round chambers you are fine.

Oh and RiverRat 8mm is actually 0.318" or 0.323" Not the 0.311 as you stated. That would be the 54R, 7.7Jap., 7.65 Argie, x39,....

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Any good quality barrel will handle .001" difference in bullet size whether it is brand new or not. A worn barrel would likely benefit from the added size. A tight barrel could show earlier pressure signs which is why careful work up of a load is prudent.

And yes I did list the wrong caliber.

Posted: 4/21/2017 6:03:14 AM EDT

[#25]

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I've made several calls to the DNR about adding the 450 bushmaster to the approved list so far thats gone nowhere they dont know anything dont answer or return calls

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Find out who the members of the Natural Resources Comission Board are and ask/petition one of them to include it on the list. DNR staff have little or nothing to do with it.

Posted: 4/21/2017 8:04:51 AM EDT

[#26]

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Quoted:

Find out who the members of the Natural Resources Comission Board are and ask/petition one of them to include it on the list. DNR staff have little or nothing to do with it.

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They will all be getting a polite email

Posted: 4/21/2017 1:37:40 PM EDT

[#27]

I talked to Chris Ensminger with the Iowa DNR today about adding the 450 bushmaster super nice guy sounded like he's been taking a lot of comments on the new rifle deer hunting law.

He can be reached at (515) 725-8499

Posted: 4/21/2017 2:13:01 PM EDT

[#28]

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Quoted:
I talked to Chris Ensminger with the Iowa DNR today about adding the 450 bushmaster super nice guy sounded like he's been taking a lot of comments on the new rifle deer hunting law.

He can be reached at (515) 725-8499

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Good luck-I don't see a reason they wouldn't add it. Hope it works out.

Posted: 4/21/2017 7:29:21 PM EDT

[#29]

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Quoted:

Good luck-I don't see a reason they wouldn't add it. Hope it works out.

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Im doubtful the vibe i got after hearing people wanted the 50 Beowulf removed because it didn't fit with the intent of the law to allow low recoil options for women and youths but we shall see

Posted: 4/21/2017 7:37:34 PM EDT

[#30]

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Quoted:

Im doubtful the vibe i got after hearing people wanted the 50 Beowulf removed because it didn't fit with the intent of the law to allow low recoil options for women and youths but we shall see

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They'll come up with whatever excuse they can to keep scary rifles out of the field-hopefully they don't go after .45-70 too.

Posted: 4/21/2017 8:00:59 PM EDT

[#31]

If the 50 doest fit their idea I doubt 444 and 45/70 will

Posted: 4/21/2017 10:58:20 PM EDT

[#32]

From what im hearing from a reliable source is that the legal caliber list will be expanded upon and not reduced. Hopefully the 450 bushmaster will be added.

Posted: 4/22/2017 6:16:40 AM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:
Im doubtful the vibe i got after hearing people wanted the 50 Beowulf removed because it didn't fit with the intent of the law to allow low recoil options for women and youths but we shall see

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Good luck-I don't see a reason they wouldn't add it. Hope it works out.

Im doubtful the vibe i got after hearing people wanted the 50 Beowulf removed because it didn't fit with the intent of the law to allow low recoil options for women and youths but we shall see

I thought the intent was to allow rifles without allowing laser flat shooting ones that will go 500 miles before hitting the dirt...

Posted: 4/24/2017 10:24:52 AM EDT

[#34]

looks like the 50beo carbine will need to be dusted off...

Posted: 4/25/2017 10:43:14 PM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

Quoted:

Im doubtful the vibe i got after hearing people wanted the 50 Beowulf removed because it didn't fit with the intent of the law to allow low recoil options for women and youths but we shall see

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They better not axe .50 Beowulf.

Posted: 4/26/2017 1:27:11 PM EDT

[#36]

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Quoted:

They better not axe .50 Beowulf.

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Really the way the law is written I didn't think they could axe anything but the way our dnr works who knows

Posted: 4/27/2017 2:27:08 PM EDT

[#37]

The one reply I've received back so far is encouraging

Hey Iowaredneck

We are working on the approved cartridge list currently and the 450 Bushmaster is one we are seeking to add. It has not been added yet, but I am in favor of it. Hope to have that issue resolved int he next few months.

Marcus Branstad

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Posted: 4/27/2017 9:39:24 PM EDT

[#38]

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The one reply I've received back so far is encouraging

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Sounds promising.

Posted: 4/28/2017 9:45:49 AM EDT

[#39]

You know I was looking at 300 Blackout the other day. It's almost, kind of, a straight walled cartridge.

Posted: 4/28/2017 11:47:11 AM EDT

[#40]

Huh, now I have a reason to use that Stainless 45-70 I bought b/c it looked neat and I got screaming deal on it. Has a whopping 2 rounds through it!

Posted: 5/6/2017 4:05:22 PM EDT

[#41]

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Quoted:
looks like the 50beo carbine will need to be dusted off...

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Now that would be fun.

Posted: 5/7/2017 10:03:47 AM EDT

[#42]

So I've been looking at lever guns for deer hunting now, what are the good ones? Marlin, Rossi, Chiappa, Winchester?

Posted: 5/7/2017 3:55:19 PM EDT

[#43]

Stay away from Freedom Group Marlins. Henry and Winchester get good feedback. Just ordered up a Henry in 357 for a client. Looking forward to checking it out.

Posted: 5/7/2017 7:03:50 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:
Stay away from Freedom Group Marlins. Henry and Winchester get good feedback. Just ordered up a Henry in 357 for a client. Looking forward to checking it out.

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Lots of people get hung up on the tube loading of the Henry(it loads like a .22). Me, I like the idea that you can find the right size tubing(pick your material) and make a speedloader just like you would for a rimfire.

Posted: 5/7/2017 9:55:38 PM EDT

[#45]

Quote History

Quoted:
So I've been looking at lever guns for deer hunting now, what are the good ones? Marlin, Rossi, Chiappa, Winchester?

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I've owned both older Marlins and Winchester both are excellent

Posted: 5/8/2017 9:44:51 AM EDT

[#46]

Quote History

Quoted:
So I've been looking at lever guns for deer hunting now, what are the good ones? Marlin, Rossi, Chiappa, Winchester?

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I have a Rossi in 357. Nice little carbine. Works great, decently accurate.

Posted: 5/8/2017 9:48:27 AM EDT

[#47]

Quote History

Quoted:
So I've been looking at lever guns for deer hunting now, what are the good ones? Marlin, Rossi, Chiappa, Winchester?

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You might want to consider a bolt action rifle also, like in 44 or 357 mag.

Posted: 5/8/2017 5:53:38 PM EDT

[#48]

I went against the advice of some members here and recently purchased a new freedom group marlin 1895 gbl from buds gun shop.

Maybe i just got extremely lucky but the action is like butter and during sight in i was able to shoot a group under 2 inches with iron sights at 100 yards. I did have to move the elevation to the highest knotch but that might be because of my hotter than factory hand loads.

The only gripe i have is that the laminate stock seems really cheap and the hood over the front sight moves back and forth under recoil. The hood doesn't bother me because i might go without anyway for a better sight picture. Overall im happy i dont have to tube load my rifle, the loading gate is much better imho.

Posted: 5/8/2017 10:40:26 PM EDT

[#49]

Quote History

Quoted:
I went against the advice of some members here and recently purchased a new freedom group marlin 1895 gbl from buds gun shop.

Maybe i just got extremely lucky but the action is like butter and during sight in i was able to shoot a group under 2 inches with iron sights at 100 yards. I did have to move the elevation to the highest knotch but that might be because of my hotter than factory hand loads.

The only gripe i have is that the laminate stock seems really cheap and the hood over the front sight moves back and forth under recoil. The hood doesn't bother me because i might go without anyway for a better sight picture. Overall im happy i dont have to tube load my rifle, the loading gate is much better imho.

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New Marlins are a lot better than what they were 5-7 years ago, but they've got a LONG way to go before they're what Marlin used to be.

Posted: 5/16/2017 1:49:25 PM EDT

[#50]

The only other reply I've received and I dont think they know what they are talking about

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Pistol/ straight wall cartridges for deer (Page 2 of 4)

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