Well, that's less than encouraging. And I was going to email about the possibility of .45 Raptor being added-made by cutting .308 brass and mainly designed with AR10s in mind but would shine in a short bolt action too. basically a rimless .460 S&W-uses same reloading data.


Also thought about suggesting .458 Winmag to be a smartass. It's straight walled, right?

That doesn't ring true to me.

Yeah i dont think that's right at all

So came across a Facebook post debating the use of AR's for deer. To my knowledge you can provided it is an approved cartridge. One poster stated that CCA (I'm assuming Septic due to his love of the DNR) was pissed because they weren't allowed. I haven't seen anything conclusive to support this. What is the scoop?

I'll have to grab a screen shot but looked like 450 bushmaster was added buy what was on IFC fb page

DNR now has a page on rifle regs on their website. No mention of AR's being legal or not, just the "must be approved caliber" rule.

That is pretty much all I have seen too. Nothing restricting the weapon other than the approved caliber stipulation.

Now to start a 450 parts list

got a link to the DNR rifle page?
thanks

http://www.iowadnr.gov/About-DNR/DNR-News-Releases/ArticleID/1278/New-law-allows-approved-pistol-cartridges-for-use-in-rifles-to-hunt-deer]

Can someone provide an official link confirming 450BM is now approved? Hate FB with a passion, don't have it.

I don't think you can call it "offical" till it comes out in the regs but i did just get this email yesterday

What's the email you're using to contact this guy? He seems to respond quickly. I'd like to confirm that .45-70 stayed on the approved list-with the amount of people who have claimed it's not a legal round all the years I've used it in a handgun since it's tapered and not a "true" straight wall I'd like to find out if it stayed.

Cool, thanks

His email is listed on page 2 of this thread and yes it was posted on IFC that the 45/70 along with the awesome 444 marlin would be on the approved list

Thanks-my interest in .444 has grown recently too, been wanting to get a barrel for my Contender but my go-to guy for barrels has at least 2 more guys wanting them too. I can buy anything smaller than .444 or .45-70 all day long but nobody is wanting to part with those two calibers.

I really liked the Winchester timber carbine I had in 444

Ballistics wise, the 357 Maximum has a huge advantage over any of the 44 caliber guns. Take a look at Mike Bellim's conversions.

http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=121&

Easiest conversion is to get an MGM barrel and have Mike chamber it for your T/C Contender or Encore. It's a 308 Win in a lighter package.

Did 444 Marlin make the list?  I can't find the list anywhere.

It's been on the list for handguns all along, so if .45-70 stayed I'm sure .444 did.

Thank you.

Everyone mentioning .444-I need to look one of you up. I'm really wanting to shoot one-I'll even buy some ammo and let you keep the brass.

According to Richard Rogers of the Iowa Firearms Coalition, it appears that DNR has now recently re-written the rules to exclude AR-type pistols from use on deer. (IFC thinks AR-type rifles in "straight-wall pistol calibers" will be acceptable during the newly authorized seasons.) IFC is working to rectify this. It may take legislation...  

Sadly, that's exactly the kind of BS which a lot of people expected the NRC to pull.   Just like their thwarted attempt at a lead ammo ban a couple years back.

I am not surprised in the least I expect douchebaggery from our DNR

I believe  (but could be wrong) that's the DNR bullshit not the NRC

As much as I don't like it, it probably is because of things like the Sig brace, especially since ATF changed their mind on legality of shouldering it. I say a handgun is a handgun, but they disagree.


I wonder what they'd say if I hunted deer with a mare's leg in .45 Colt?

Well its about time State listened to at least one of my suggestions.  DNR had an open ICN discussion on suggestions for DNR last winter and I went to DMACC and explained to them that the recoil of shotguns and muzzleloaders was just simply to heavy for beginner shooters and asked them to consider at least allowing youth hunters the opportunity to use rifles chambered in the same straignt wall calibers that we currently allow handguns to be used legally for hunting.  This is really a win for youth hunters because cartridges like .357 and .44 mag 45 long colt etc are ideal for taking deer with significantly lower recoil and a significantly higher likelyhood of success for youth hunters.  Bigger win for them to allow everyone to use them, more than I had hoped for.

I don't know how much is actually the DNR/NRC listening, versus IFC and other groups tirelessly campaigning for gun rights for years on end, building name recognition and rapport with the legislature, and ramming it through regardless of what the DNR might think -- seems that how most hunting-related issues of the past decade went.
I'm guessing that the IFC volunteer lobbyists could answer that question.

The DNR was neutral on straight wall rifles for deer

.357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .375 Winchester, .38 Super, .40 S&W, .401 Powermag, 10 mm Auto, .41 Remington Magnum, .41 Action Express, .44 S&W Special, .44 Remington Magnum, .44 Automag, .444 Marlin, .445 Super Mag, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Super Mag, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Sil-houette, .450 Bushmaster, .451 Detonics, .454 Casull, .45-70 Govt., .460 Rowland, .460 S&W Mag, .475 Widley Magnum, .475 Linebaugh, .480 Ruger, .50 Action Express, .50 Linebaugh, .50 Beowulf and .500 S&W Mag.

Here are the calibers from the new regs that just posted

chrome-extension://oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/http://www.iowadnr.gov/portals/idnr/uploads/Hunting/huntingregs.pdf

Not quite sure where they are going with this where it states " chambered for handgun use".  Other cartridges may qualify that are not listed. I think I would get an ok in writing for anything not on the list.

Allowable Straight-walled Cartridge Criteria:
¦¦Center-fired straight-walled rimless cartridges chambered for handgun use with bullets from 0.357” to 0.500” diameter and a case length from 0.850” to 1.800.”
¦¦Center-fired straight-walled rimmed cartridges chambered for handgun use with bullets from 0.357” to 0.500” diameter with a case length from 1.285” to 1.800.”

as of the current 'reading' of the rules set forth by NRC, the mare's leg would be barred from use, just like the AR as it has 'parts' that extend aft of the grip...  

#MADFACE

but...  we're working on it.  hold tight.

You are referring just to AR pistols, correct?

ETA: Sounds like just AR pistols from the quote below. I did not see that when looking at the regs today.

Yup. That could be a gotcha.

correct.  i wasn't specific enough before.  AR PISTOL, or any other pistol that has something aft of the grip.  

kind of odd how the ATF defines what a pistol and handgun are specifically, we register them as such, categorize them at the point of sale and instance of possession, codify the differences in law, yet the DNR and NRC redefine what a pistol is for the purposes of handgun hunting mangy ditch goats in iowa...  all while collecting outrageous fees to harvest them on my own property and neighbors...

would you rather take a deer with a glock 20 or a 10" barreled AR with a sight radius double or triple that of the average handgun?  the NRC is just silly...  looks to me like the 'rule' making committee has zero idea how to makes rules.

Did that come out of the NRC or the DNR?

Definitely. I'd understand the ruling if it had taken effect as recently as last year-people using a 10" pistol, with a Sig brace and shouldering it. Now, it's illegal as a pistol, but I can take the same lower, add a 16" barrel in an approved caliber and I'm golden.

You had my ass hole puckered a little bit there Tank

So I may be ignorant here, but it looks like Iowa is taking baby steps forward... But I still fail to understand the logic behind allowing ONLY straight walled cartridges, while restricting say .30-06, .308win, 6.5 Creedmoor, and all the other well proven deer dropping calibers...


I simply do NOT understand allowing a bow, muzzle-loader, slug gun, etc...To me it is far more HUMANE to put down the animal as quickly and efficiently as possible. Yet, using a PROVEN AND EFFECTIVE rifle firing say a .308 win. Is somehow to 'scary' to be allowed?
Seems pretty stupid to me. Forgive me if I'm wrong, I understand shot placement, range, accuracy. But if you can sneak up on a Buck with a bow and hit it from 15 yards... How would doing the same with a .30-06 be less effective at putting down the Buck?

I've heard the arguments of:
1 they don't like the 'loud noise'... Umm, if that's the case take suppressors off the NFA and make them more available. Besides the fact you can't hunt in densely populated areas anyway... Like moms are worried that some hunter is going to wander out on the school playground and shoot bambi while their kids play 15' away...

2, the longer range of such rifles is more risk... Well shouldn't being aware of your target and what is behind it be in play? Just like using any other weapon? Pretty sure almost all hunter safety courses should cover this basic concept...

Hell I remember growing up and a couple (or 3) of idiot, drug using kids, were out 'hunting'. Ended up shooting one of their buddies in the neck (from across a road while opposite each other, .22lr I believe). He died. Anyone with a brain who knew these hooligans would easily place the blame on them for being stupid and drinking/using-drugs while out, in their words, 'hunting' (aka, being morons)... However certain politicians of say the Democrat flavor, would probably use this incident to blame this tragedy on 'evil overpowered guns'...


Yeah, I know, 'logic' and politicians don't mix well. Like others have mentioned, it seems like they kind of, sort of, want to allow more people to hunt with other tools... Yet, they don't want any 'scary assault rifle machine guns with banana clips and shoulder things that go up'...

What it boils down to, is with factory loads, straight wall cartridges tend to have a realistic effective range similar to a shotgun. It's a way to allow rifles without allowing rifles.


Where it gets ridiculous, is there's no caliber restriction for shooting coyotes. I could legally shoot a coyote with a .50BMG(and make a spectacular mess), but I can't use a .30-30 on deer. They ignore the fact that the idiots who will take unsafe shots with a rifle are out there currently doing it illegally anyway.


ETA-I did hear that there's an updated approved list made since printing this year's hunting regulations, that names .45 Raptor as allowed-and I noticed there's a list of requirements explaining how to know if an unlisted caliber is legal-basically .357 or larger, straight wall, within a certain case length range that I'm too lazy to look up right now.

Allowable Straight-walled Cartridge Criteria:
¦¦Center-fired straight-walled rimless cartridges chambered for handgun use with bullets from 0.357” to 0.500” diameter and a case length from 0.850” to 1.800.”
¦¦Center-fired straight-walled rimmed cartridges chambered for handgun use with bullets from 0.357” to 0.500” diameter with a case length from 1.285” to 1.800.”

What they did is DNR had an open meeting by ICN at DMACC last winter.  I told them that for YOUTH hunters the recoil of a  12 ga slug or musket was significantly stronger than the recoil of these straight wall pistol cartridges when shot out of rifles.  I told them that YOUTH hunters need to be allowed to use the same cartridges that we currently allow pistols to be used in.  Its hard to fight the logic of--- we  allow something like .357 in a pistol, but don't allow  youth hunters to use a pistol so why not allow youth hunters to use a rifle in the same caliber.  When my kids were growing up one of the boys shot a 12 ga slug and it was years before he was willing to consider hunting then he hunted with a bow. The intent was not so much to provide a quick effective kill it was to allow youth to learn to hunt with a higher likelihood of success in a low recoil caliber that would encourage practice and proficiency. The rest of you simply benefited from the change also because they want more deer killed the insurance companies are tired of deer car accidents.  You cant explain to these people that a 30-06 makes a good deer gun because they have a mindset that believes the bullet goes in a straight line forever and ever and ever.  Everyone on here is talking about using an AR but if people get out there and place one carefully aimed responsible shot you will get your deer it doesn't need to sound like a small war that gets us bad press. If we see a increase in accidents this will go away as fast as it came to us. Know your target. Know what is behind it.

I'm loving my 450

 So is did we confirm AR is ok?
I didn't see anything on this. Trying to decide if getting an upper together in a rush is worth it.

this year it appears AR pistols are out with the way DNR and NRC worded it.  they worked very hard to exclude the AR...  

BUT...  the AR carbine is fine.  no mag limits, etc.  so run your 16"+ unit and smile.  we're working on a fix for their over reach currently.

I find their continual overreach troublesome Can we just slap their peepees once and for all?

There fixed that for you.

yes.  this.

Thanks for all the Hard Work Mister.  Will have to send you Email to see if you have anything available.