Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Page Hometown » Iowa
Posted: 2/1/2017 7:30:25 PM EDT
With this gun being released at SHOT my interest in this issue has been rekindled. OK, ATF defines a "shotgun", among other things, as "designed to be fired from the shoulder". Not having a stock, a pistol grip only 12 gauge is not a shotgun, so it goes on the 4473 as "other" or "firearm" not "shotgun".

Trying to find Iowa's legal definition of shotgun made me wonder-in the offensive weapons category they say "other object that fires a projectile greater than 6/10 of an inch" is illegal. This is what seems a bit scary-

Since a PGO is not a shotgun, regardless of barrel length, does the part in red mean it's illegal in IA, and just waiting for someone in power to realize it? And if it does, would it mean the same gun in .410 is just fine? If PGO from the factory(never had a stock installed) it's still "not a shotgun" but the projectile is less than 6/10".
Link Posted: 2/9/2017 1:35:42 AM EDT
I'm wondering about the legality of the shockwave as well.
My gut tells me that iowa will call it a shotgun and it will be illegal because of the barrel length.
Link Posted: 2/9/2017 8:53:03 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By netofficer3710:
I'm wondering about the legality of the shockwave as well.
My gut tells me that iowa will call it a shotgun and it will be illegal because of the barrel length.
View Quote


I think so too, but I think it will take someone becoming a test case to get an answer out of IA one way or the other. I contacted Department of Public Safety and was simply told that falls outside their area of expertise, and ATF told me to call an attorney in the area.


I guess we'll have to see if any major sellers are willing to ship them into IA, and watch for results if they do.
Link Posted: 2/10/2017 5:24:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2017 5:25:14 PM EDT by F224]
Iowa went through a similar issue over T/C Contender's (rifle to pistol - pistol to rifle) some time ago and then recently AR15 lower receivers. The term "other" has been with us for some time and the BATFE's recent acceptance as an "other" classification the Shockwave most likely leave every county attorney in Iowa in a lurch. Bottom like, they will have a very hard time claiming it's prohibited under Iowa Offensive Arm's restrictions.

Eg; .70 caliber muzzleloaders are legal in Iowa.
Link Posted: 2/10/2017 5:45:38 PM EDT
Not an attorney or an NFA expert, but my argument would be that it was never manufactured with a stock or intended to be shouldered and it has an OAL of 26" or greater.
Link Posted: 2/10/2017 10:20:22 PM EDT
Contacted DCI and got a response this morning-basically more of the same. The person was familiar with the Shockwave, and basically said they can't give an opinion on the issue. Looking like it might take a test case in the court system to get a straight answer-and that still won't answer the other part-does the technicality of "never having a stock=not a shotgun" make a factory 18" PGO,over 6/10" bore illegal as well?
Link Posted: 2/11/2017 12:45:00 PM EDT
This just makes me want one more.
Link Posted: 2/11/2017 9:10:29 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Beef1911:
This just makes me want one more.
View Quote

Me too.
Link Posted: 2/12/2017 2:34:32 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By shack357:
Contacted DCI and got a response this morning-basically more of the same. The person was familiar with the Shockwave, and basically said they can't give an opinion on the issue. Looking like it might take a test case in the court system to get a straight answer-and that still won't answer the other part-does the technicality of "never having a stock=not a shotgun" make a factory 18" PGO,over 6/10" bore illegal as well?
View Quote


I can take the stock off my shotgun now, and put a PGO grip on with an 18.5" barrel, and that is perfectly legal, no doubt, no NFA mystery.

How would anyone know if a PGO shotgun with an 18" barrel came that way from the factory, or you modified it? Hell, my shotgun started with a 22" barrel.
Link Posted: 2/12/2017 8:37:50 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By slims_88:


I can take the stock off my shotgun now, and put a PGO grip on with an 18.5" barrel, and that is perfectly legal, no doubt, no NFA mystery.

How would anyone know if a PGO shotgun with an 18" barrel came that way from the factory, or you modified it? Hell, my shotgun started with a 22" barrel.
View Quote


If someone were to check, the factory has records of how the gun was originally equipped. As for the mystery part, it's not NFA, it's the idea that now that it's legally not a shotgun due to that ruling does the state still agree that it's legal?
Link Posted: 2/12/2017 1:16:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2017 1:20:01 PM EDT by netofficer3710]
the way I see it, the BATFE has the following classifications...
Shotgun
rifle
pistol
short barreled shotgun
short barreled rifle
machine gun
Firearm
destructive device
Any other weapon

as far as I know, the state of iowa has
Shotgun
Rifle
Pistol
Short barreled shotgun (illegal)
short barreled rifle (illegal)

so if iowa doesn't recognize "firearm" as a classification, then by default it would be a "short barreled shotgun"

please correct me if I'm wrong
I hope I am, because I kinda want one of these things.
Link Posted: 2/12/2017 2:48:23 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By netofficer3710:
the way I see it, the BATFE has the following classifications...
Shotgun
rifle
pistol
short barreled shotgun
short barreled rifle
machine gun
Firearm
destructive device
Any other weapon

as far as I know, the state of iowa has
Shotgun
Rifle
Pistol
Short barreled shotgun (illegal)
short barreled rifle (illegal)

so if iowa doesn't recognize "firearm" as a classification, then by default it would be a "short barreled shotgun"

please correct me if I'm wrong
I hope I am, because I kinda want one of these things.
View Quote


Where does a semi 1919 fall in Iowa's code?
Link Posted: 2/12/2017 9:36:52 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BobRoberts:


Where does a semi 1919 fall in Iowa's code?
View Quote

probably under "other object that fires a projectile", but not offensive because the projectile is not greater than 6/10 of an inch.
Link Posted: 2/12/2017 9:40:43 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By shack357:


If someone were to check, the factory has records of how the gun was originally equipped. As for the mystery part, it's not NFA, it's the idea that now that it's legally not a shotgun due to that ruling does the state still agree that it's legal?
View Quote


Not to mention that for anyone thinking of these, it's best to build around a new PGO gun, or buy the factory Shockwave. Buying used and modding, there's always the chance that the person who originally bought as pistol grip added a stock at some point. The ATF ruling is, take a pistol grip 12 gauge and add a stock, it's now a shotgun. Remove stock, replace pistol grip, it's a "weapon made from a shotgun" and even though you've gone back to original configuration it's now subject to a shotgun's barrel restrictions.
Page Hometown » Iowa
Top Top