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Page Hometown » Iowa
Posted: 11/29/2016 6:46:31 AM EDT
so let's face it, shotguns suck at being rifles...

so why is there no push to make rifles legal in all counties for gun seasons?
I understand that we have bigger fish to fry, and I hate hearing any mention of hunting when the second amendment is being discussed, but is this a possibility with the republicans in the majority? has there ever been a bill introduced?
Link Posted: 11/29/2016 9:40:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2016 9:37:19 PM EDT by F224]
Actually, there will be a private citizen petition filed with the DNR Commission in 2017 demanding that the DNR show cause for the restrictive rule restricting deer hunters to shotgun slugs only. The issue will enrage the http://www.iowabowhunters.org/ who will claim that it will wipe out the trophy deer population in Iowa, regardless of the fact that it has not done so in MO,KS,NE or the Dakota's. Yet those states kill and injure far fewer hunters every deer season than Iowa does with it's reckless deer drives and ricochet prone slugs.
Link Posted: 11/29/2016 11:02:25 AM EDT
I would love to hunt with rifle here in Iowa I'm not a shotgun guy but I only do shotgun season I don't bow hunt and don't have a muzzleloader I don't want a trophy deer the guys that need trophies can have them I just want solid meet in the freezer and I feel the fastest way for me to do so would be with a rifle so I hope someday we can here in Iowa
Link Posted: 11/29/2016 9:01:19 PM EDT
I might actually get back into gun hunting for deer if I could use a rifle.
Link Posted: 11/29/2016 11:01:56 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By LOW50S:
I would love to hunt with rifle here in Iowa I'm not a shotgun guy but I only do shotgun season I don't bow hunt and don't have a muzzleloader I don't want a trophy deer the guys that need trophies can have them I just want solid meet in the freezer and I feel the fastest way for me to do so would be with a rifle so I hope someday we can here in Iowa
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Sounds like you hunt like me-I'll take the first legal animal that comes within range every time. More than happy with a nice fat doe-they taste better anyway.

I'd love to shoot one with a rifle, don't care if it has antlers or not. If I have a dead deer at my feet it's one more that won't get hit by a car.
Link Posted: 11/30/2016 12:11:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/30/2016 12:13:45 AM EDT by yammerschooner]
I loved those January seasons when I could hunt deer with my Marlin 1895 cowboy in 45-70 in the southern two tiers of counties. It is one of the prettier firearms I own, and it always brings me joy to be able to field a piece of artwork.

I'm a doe killer too. Stinky bucks suck.
Link Posted: 11/30/2016 6:55:52 AM EDT
We do not need this now maybe if they went like Indiana to straight walled or pistol rounds that'd be ok. There is a reason we have big deer.
Link Posted: 11/30/2016 6:58:14 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By F224:
Actually, there will be a private citizen petition filed with the DNR Commission in 2017 demanding that the DNR show cause for the restrictive rule restricting deer hunters to shotgun slugs only. The issue will enrage the http://www.iowabowhunters.org/ who will claim that it will wipe out the trophy deer population in Iowa, regardless of the fact that it has not done so in MO,KS,NE or the Dakota's. Yet those states kill and injure far fewer hunters every deer season than Iowa does with it's reckless deer drives and ricochet prone slugs.
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Dont know about ks and ne but mo deer hunting sucks out loud
Link Posted: 11/30/2016 8:42:24 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Iowaredneck:
We do not need this now maybe if they went like Indiana to straight walled or pistol rounds that'd be ok. There is a reason we have big deer.
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Rifle hunting isn't going to make the deer smaller. We have big deer because we have a lot of corn for them to eat, not because we don't shoot them with rifles.

Link Posted: 11/30/2016 9:21:21 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By shack357:

Rifle hunting isn't going to make the deer smaller. We have big deer because we have a lot of corn for them to eat, not because we don't shoot them with rifles.

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Originally Posted By shack357:
Originally Posted By Iowaredneck:
We do not need this now maybe if they went like Indiana to straight walled or pistol rounds that'd be ok. There is a reason we have big deer.

Rifle hunting isn't going to make the deer smaller. We have big deer because we have a lot of corn for them to eat, not because we don't shoot them with rifles.



Iowa has the right combination of genetics, deer cover, water and room service. That's why we have large antlered deer in this state.
Link Posted: 11/30/2016 10:44:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/30/2016 10:47:08 AM EDT by Ameshawki]
The straight walled cartridge/pistol caliber should be a no brainer. But if there was ever a department that had no brains it's DNR. It's a mantra with them Bring up the subject of rifles in Iowa and their eyes glaze over and the endless tape loop of "we don't want rifles in Iowa" kicks in. You cannot have a reasonable discussion with them on the topic.
Link Posted: 11/30/2016 4:55:55 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By shack357:

Rifle hunting isn't going to make the deer smaller. We have big deer because we have a lot of corn for them to eat, not because we don't shoot them with rifles.

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Originally Posted By shack357:
Originally Posted By Iowaredneck:
We do not need this now maybe if they went like Indiana to straight walled or pistol rounds that'd be ok. There is a reason we have big deer.

Rifle hunting isn't going to make the deer smaller. We have big deer because we have a lot of corn for them to eat, not because we don't shoot them with rifles.



Lol we have big deer because they get the chance to live long enough to be big
Link Posted: 11/30/2016 5:42:41 PM EDT
why is it up to the DNR?
I thought their job was to enforce the law, not write it.
writing law is for the legislators...
Link Posted: 11/30/2016 6:16:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/30/2016 6:17:08 PM EDT by shack357]
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Originally Posted By Iowaredneck:


Lol we have big deer because they get the chance to live long enough to be big
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Originally Posted By Iowaredneck:
Originally Posted By shack357:
Originally Posted By Iowaredneck:
We do not need this now maybe if they went like Indiana to straight walled or pistol rounds that'd be ok. There is a reason we have big deer.

Rifle hunting isn't going to make the deer smaller. We have big deer because we have a lot of corn for them to eat, not because we don't shoot them with rifles.



Lol we have big deer because they get the chance to live long enough to be big




Lifespan doesn't mean a thing if the nutrition isn't there. Compare a 5 year old Texas deer with a 3 year old from here.

I agree that straight wall cartridges is a step in the right direction, but the firearm used isn't going to change the deer's size.
Link Posted: 11/30/2016 10:12:14 PM EDT
I would take straight walled over nothing. I'd love to use my 30-30, but I could wrangle something else up.
Link Posted: 11/30/2016 10:53:09 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By shack357:




Lifespan doesn't mean a thing if the nutrition isn't there. Compare a 5 year old Texas deer with a 3 year old from here.

I agree that straight wall cartridges is a step in the right direction, but the firearm used isn't going to change the deer's size.
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Originally Posted By shack357:
Originally Posted By Iowaredneck:
Originally Posted By shack357:
Originally Posted By Iowaredneck:
We do not need this now maybe if they went like Indiana to straight walled or pistol rounds that'd be ok. There is a reason we have big deer.

Rifle hunting isn't going to make the deer smaller. We have big deer because we have a lot of corn for them to eat, not because we don't shoot them with rifles.



Lol we have big deer because they get the chance to live long enough to be big




Lifespan doesn't mean a thing if the nutrition isn't there. Compare a 5 year old Texas deer with a 3 year old from here.

I agree that straight wall cartridges is a step in the right direction, but the firearm used isn't going to change the deer's size.


No but if they all get killed at 1.5 that dont make booners ask my friend that moved from SE Iowa to NE Missouri
Link Posted: 12/1/2016 9:17:55 AM EDT
Right now the DNR is preparing to request permission to Raise the prices on Hunting and Fishing licenses. This would be a good time to counter their request with a proposal of a Limited Rifle season. Nothing stupid, just a limited time, with specific calibers.

 Oh, my brother told me that Indiana now allows rifles, but excludes .270win? anyone know if it's true? I haven't looked it up, he just told me last night.
Link Posted: 12/1/2016 9:58:11 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By soldier65:
Right now the DNR is preparing to request permission to Raise the prices on Hunting and Fishing licenses. This would be a good time to counter their request with a proposal of a Limited Rifle season. Nothing stupid, just a limited time, with specific calibers.

 Oh, my brother told me that Indiana now allows rifles, but excludes .270win? anyone know if it's true? I haven't looked it up, he just told me last night.
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Interesting issue in Indiana. If I understand it correctly, they law was written as legalizing cartridges by name instead of as a range. So instead of it being chambering's from .243" to .308" caliber, it was only the 243Win & 308Win that are allowed or something like that. That is why Iowa has a commission that oversees the DNR, to prevent legislators with no real world expertise from writing regulations.
Link Posted: 12/1/2016 12:18:36 PM EDT
As long as it's after archery season I'm game! 
Link Posted: 12/3/2016 12:44:22 PM EDT
I'd love that.
Link Posted: 12/4/2016 7:43:36 PM EDT
I dug into this a couple years back.

I traded e-mails with the Chairperson of the Natural Resources Commission, can't remember her name right now, and she indicated she was OK with rifle hunting, but to take it to legislature.

OK, so I contacted my representative in the State House and he shot me the IA code concerning such things and basically said the Natural Resources Commission can, and should, set the method of take. Alternatively, I should talk to the Chair of the Natural Resources Committee. Not sure if that is a House or Senate committee. Love .gov double talk.

I'm pretty sure I still have the text of these exchanges, if anyone would find them helpful.

That's where I left it. I think there would be support enough to make it happen.
Link Posted: 12/6/2016 4:38:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/6/2016 4:40:41 PM EDT by Ameshawki]
My "crowd" has been discussing this at length recently. We just finished first shotgun. Filled two of seven tags, about normal for us. I have no doubt with rifles we would have gotten at least two and maybe four more. I had one set up that would have been an easy kill with a rifle but was nothing but a glory shot with the shotgun. Instead of sitting quietly and sniping a deer I had to walk ten miles this weekend, into people looking to shoot something. Now I trust my group (half of them are ERT members) but it's never something I've been really comfortable with.

The pushing/driving method of deer hunting is not our favorite but it's what you have to do with the tools we have available. The development of sabot rounds in recent years has made a mockery of the shotgun rules. I can shoot a 240 grain 44 mag bullet out of a muzzle loader (with a sabot), a shotgun (with a sabot) or a handgun as a straight round of ammo. I can even use that handgun in both shotgun and muzzie season. But I can't shoot it out of a rifle. It's ridiculous. We point this out to DNR officers and they just don't get it.

Signed:

A frustrated, very tired and very sore deer hunter.
Link Posted: 12/6/2016 4:49:08 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Ameshawki:
My "crowd" has been discussing this at length recently. We just finished first shotgun. Filled two of seven tags, about normal for us. I have no doubt with rifles we would have gotten at least two and maybe four more. I had one set up that would have been an easy kill with a rifle but was nothing but a glory shot with the shotgun. Instead of sitting quietly and sniping a deer I had to walk ten miles this weekend, into people looking to shoot something. Now I trust my group (half of them are ERT members) but it's never something I've been really comfortable with.

The pushing/driving method of deer hunting is not our favorite but it's what you have to do with the tools we have available. The development of sabot rounds in recent years has made a mockery of the shotgun rules. I can shoot a 240 grain 44 mag bullet out of a muzzle loader (with a sabot), a shotgun (with a sabot) or a handgun as a straight round of ammo. I can even use that handgun in both shotgun and muzzie season. But I can't shoot it out of a rifle. It's ridiculous. We point this out to DNR officers and they just don't get it.

Signed:

A frustrated, very tired and very sore deer hunter.
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Haha, I'm in a similar boat.
Link Posted: 12/6/2016 6:12:29 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Ameshawki:
... Instead of sitting quietly and sniping a deer I had to walk ten miles this weekend, into people looking to shoot something. Now I trust my group (half of them are ERT members) but it's never something I've been really comfortable with. ...

Signed:

A frustrated, very tired and very sore deer hunter.
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Now you know why this petition will be filed. Deer drives are very unsafe, as evidenced by the number of Iowans shot every year.
Link Posted: 12/6/2016 6:26:02 PM EDT
Is it possible to get behind this petition with signatures or something else useful?
Link Posted: 12/7/2016 1:23:22 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By jasonsbeer:
Is it possible to get behind this petition with signatures or something else useful?
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Actually, this will be a "show cause" petition. It's better to just let the guy (he's insulated from being destroyed personally or financially by the IBA) push it. Stage two will be a much harder push, but he does not think it will be necessary.
Link Posted: 12/9/2016 5:28:37 PM EDT
What we really should push for with DNR in regard to rifle hunting is to allow straight wall cartridges for the hunting of deer ( the same calibers which we allow handguns). Shotguns are inherently inaccurate compared to a rifle.
If the OK was limited to straight wall cartridges like 45-70, 44 mag, 45 long colt, .357 mag etc there should be no reason to deny the use of those same calibers. Certainly rifles in those calibers should be a tool available to youth hunters.
I hate the pushing deer style of hunting and prefer a stand or blind. The other thing that we really should push for is in regard to deer donated to HUSH when a deer is donated to HUSH the DNR should replace the tag with a free antlerless tag issued to the hunter who donated his deer that way he could go get them another deer and if he donated that one issue him another tag. It is most unreasonable to expect the hunter to not only donate his time and cost of obtaining the deer but also the cost of added tags when he is donating the meat to the poor.
Link Posted: 12/9/2016 7:30:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2016 8:00:33 PM EDT by shack357]
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Originally Posted By Urimaginaryfrnd:
What we really should push for with DNR in regard to rifle hunting is to allow straight wall cartridges for the hunting of deer ( the same calibers which we allow handguns). Shotguns are inherently inaccurate compared to a rifle.
If the OK was limited to straight wall cartridges like 45-70, 44 mag, 45 long colt, .357 mag etc there should be no reason to deny the use of those same calibers.
I hate the pushing deer style of hunting and prefer a stand or blind. The other thing that we really should push for is in regard to deer donated to HUSH when a deer is donated to HUSH the DNR should replace the tag with a free antlerless tag issued to the hunter who donated his deer that way he could go get them another deer and if he donated that one issue him another tag. .
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I like both ideas-as for handgun calibers, it's asinine that I can use my Contender, add a 16" barrel in .45-70 and shoot a deer, but if I remove one bolt and install a stock it's illegal.

As for the HUSH=antlerless tag idea, more food for hungry, AND more dead deer that won't get hit by cars. Win/Win!

ETA-maybe even have a second tag available at time of purchasing initial license free on request, with a requirement that if filled it must be immediately reported, and donated within X amount of days of kill.
Link Posted: 12/11/2016 1:20:39 PM EDT
Has anyone hunted with a 50 beowulf AR pistol yet? Didn't Septic get that cartridge added to the approved list?

Link Posted: 12/11/2016 9:28:22 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Beef1911:
Has anyone hunted with a 50 beowulf AR pistol yet? Didn't Septic get that cartridge added to the approved list?
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I've talked with three or four who used one, but haven't heard anything regarding success or experience during a license check.
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 9:35:19 PM EDT
Deer drives are the bread and butter of iowa deer hunting if they were so unsafe there would be hundreds af hunting accidents each year not just 2 or 3
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 11:28:40 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Iowaredneck:
Deer drives are the bread and butter of iowa deer hunting if they were so unsafe there would be hundreds af hunting accidents each year not just 2 or 3
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And after having shot un-driven, un spooked deer both with firearm and with bow, I don't think I'll do another drive hunt again. between the deer just standing there, not nervous and then it falls over, and the fact that I don't have to worry about where 5-7 guys' slugs are going it's a whole different experience. Yes, a drive hunt can be done safely but when 5 guys hunt the neighboring farm to where I hunt, and I hear 20+ shots they're not exactly doing it safely.


Neither was the moron who put a slug through my wife's uncle's windshield two years ago. All too often a drive hunt turns into lobbing shots at a running deer that should be left to run(due to distance, or just a piss-poor angle)with a projectile too slow for the job.
Link Posted: 12/21/2016 1:45:52 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By shack357:

And after having shot un-driven, un spooked deer both with firearm and with bow, I don't think I'll do another drive hunt again. between the deer just standing there, not nervous and then it falls over, and the fact that I don't have to worry about where 5-7 guys' slugs are going it's a whole different experience. Yes, a drive hunt can be done safely but when 5 guys hunt the neighboring farm to where I hunt, and I hear 20+ shots they're not exactly doing it safely.


Neither was the moron who put a slug through my wife's uncle's windshield two years ago. All too often a drive hunt turns into lobbing shots at a running deer that should be left to run(due to distance, or just a piss-poor angle)with a projectile too slow for the job.
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Originally Posted By shack357:
Originally Posted By Iowaredneck:
Deer drives are the bread and butter of iowa deer hunting if they were so unsafe there would be hundreds af hunting accidents each year not just 2 or 3

And after having shot un-driven, un spooked deer both with firearm and with bow, I don't think I'll do another drive hunt again. between the deer just standing there, not nervous and then it falls over, and the fact that I don't have to worry about where 5-7 guys' slugs are going it's a whole different experience. Yes, a drive hunt can be done safely but when 5 guys hunt the neighboring farm to where I hunt, and I hear 20+ shots they're not exactly doing it safely.


Neither was the moron who put a slug through my wife's uncle's windshield two years ago. All too often a drive hunt turns into lobbing shots at a running deer that should be left to run(due to distance, or just a piss-poor angle)with a projectile too slow for the job.


I have never been a fan of drives either. I always still hunted, stand hunted or a combination of both. Deer that are shot w/o the adrenaline from flight in their muscles are more tender and just plain taste better. I have hunted rifle out west and bow hunted and shotgun hunted here. Having eaten from all three the best has been a deer dropped quickly by a good rifle shot. A good bow shot can be just as good. I have found slugs to be inadequate at times. Three shots to the chest, two very near the heart, at less than 50 yds. to kill a deer is not optimal. This was with the old pumpkin ball foster slugs. The sabot slugs are better but have still had deer go quite a ways a couple times.

I wouldn't want to see cartridge choices restricted to pistol cartridges. Definitely straight wall cartridges and there are quite a few suitable bottle neck rounds. I know this will ruffle a few feathers but the larger, more case size than caliber, magnums just really aren't needed to drop a deer. My personal favorite would be a 6.5x55 or similar.
Link Posted: 12/21/2016 7:37:41 PM EDT
The second best thing about dropping a deer with a 45-70 is that the meat is good right up to the hole. Not much expansion to speak of, but with a bullet that big, none is needed.
Link Posted: 2/8/2017 1:21:08 PM EDT
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