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 TheMirage 
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Posted: 12/23/2011 9:29:31 AM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT Actually a decent article. 
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BobRoberts
65% more bullet
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Posted: 12/23/2011 10:26:45 AM
Beat by almost an hour.
 Great Job Romp!
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AR15JoeL
MOLON LABE
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Posted: 12/23/2011 1:33:37 PM
Great Story-
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Coltgunner
I'm a figment of your imagination
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Posted: 12/23/2011 4:44:29 PM
[Last Edit: 12/23/2011 4:45:31 PM by Coltgunner]
"In Linn County, Maj. John Godar of the Sheriff’s Department said
increased availability of mandatory training has added to Iowans’
interest."
Huh? Availability of mandatory training has added to Iowans interest? Training is great but what made it more interesting to Iowans was that the sheriff's couldn't decide who could or could not get a permit. ETA = It was a good article. |
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Spart
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Posted: 12/23/2011 5:29:34 PM
Originally Posted By Coltgunner:
"In Linn County, Maj. John Godar of the Sheriff’s Department said increased availability of mandatory training has added to Iowans’ interest." Huh? Availability of mandatory training has added to Iowans interest? Training is great but what made it more interesting to Iowans was that the sheriff's couldn't decide who could or could not get a permit. ETA = It was a good article. Makes sense to me. Before the new law, it was up to the sheriffs to decide what training was satisfactory. In many cases, it was down to one or two trainers, and the availability was limited. Now, they have no say in who can and can't train you. So "increased availability of mandatory training" makes sense. IIRC, in Polk county there were only two approved trainers prior to the new law. |
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Posted: 12/23/2011 5:30:24 PM
I think another thing that added to the numbers was knowledge that it was an option to get a permit to carry. It's not advertised so no one has a clue you can do it.
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Coltgunner
I'm a figment of your imagination
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Joined: May 2005 IA, USA
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Posted: 12/23/2011 5:54:15 PM
Originally Posted By Spart: Originally Posted By Coltgunner: "In Linn County, Maj. John Godar of the Sheriff’s Department said increased availability of mandatory training has added to Iowans’ interest." Huh? Availability of mandatory training has added to Iowans interest? Training is great but what made it more interesting to Iowans was that the sheriff's couldn't decide who could or could not get a permit. ETA = It was a good article. Makes sense to me. Before the new law, it was up to the sheriffs to decide what training was satisfactory. In many cases, it was down to one or two trainers, and the availability was limited. Now, they have no say in who can and can't train you. So "increased availability of mandatory training" makes sense. IIRC, in Polk county there were only two approved trainers prior to the new law. I may have misread it, I agree with you about the availability of training, I was thinking that more people was interested in carrying because we went from may issue to shall issue not the training. |
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Posted: 12/23/2011 8:14:26 PM
Originally Posted By BobRoberts:
Beat by almost an hour. Great Job Romp!Thanks man, did the interview with Tom last week.....he is a pretty decent guy. R |
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Posted: 12/23/2011 10:00:21 PM
Originally Posted By Coltgunner:
Originally Posted By Spart:
Originally Posted By Coltgunner:
"In Linn County, Maj. John Godar of the Sheriff’s Department said increased availability of mandatory training has added to Iowans’ interest." Huh? Availability of mandatory training has added to Iowans interest? Training is great but what made it more interesting to Iowans was that the sheriff's couldn't decide who could or could not get a permit. ETA = It was a good article. Makes sense to me. Before the new law, it was up to the sheriffs to decide what training was satisfactory. In many cases, it was down to one or two trainers, and the availability was limited. Now, they have no say in who can and can't train you. So "increased availability of mandatory training" makes sense. IIRC, in Polk county there were only two approved trainers prior to the new law. I may have misread it, I agree with you about the availability of training, I was thinking that more people was interested in carrying because we went from may issue to shall issue not the training. I had the interest before the change but held off once the law passed due to the limited acceptable training accepted by my sheriff. The accepted course was 2 days, 8 hours each, given by only one trainer. You had to pay $150 for the training, bring 300 rds. of quality ammo, didn't specify if reloads were acceptable, meaning that factory could easily cost $100 or more. Then you had 2 days off work b/c most classes were run during the week. If you lucked out and got a Friday/Saturday class it was more b/c for most of us a Saturday is overtime.So if I didn't have any vacation to take for the 2 days and had to buy ammo it could have easily cost me $550-$650 + the cost of the permit. With the training requirements for shall issue I had my DD214 to cover my training requirements although I did take a course ($50) to get more info on the laws and scenarios that would be legal self defense situations. So in reality it would have cost me $60 for the 5 yr permit & hard card vs the previous numbers above annually. |
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Spart
Beloved Local Storyteller
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Posted: 12/24/2011 1:27:08 AM
Forgot about the training cost in addition to the limited availability.
That's what happens when your sheriff can limit the market - no competition on price. I think I paid like $90 or so before the law passed? |
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Posted: 12/24/2011 9:27:37 AM
Originally Posted By river_rat:
Originally Posted By Coltgunner:
Originally Posted By Spart:
Originally Posted By Coltgunner:
"In Linn County, Maj. John Godar of the Sheriff’s Department said increased availability of mandatory training has added to Iowans’ interest." Huh? Availability of mandatory training has added to Iowans interest? Training is great but what made it more interesting to Iowans was that the sheriff's couldn't decide who could or could not get a permit. ETA = It was a good article. Makes sense to me. Before the new law, it was up to the sheriffs to decide what training was satisfactory. In many cases, it was down to one or two trainers, and the availability was limited. Now, they have no say in who can and can't train you. So "increased availability of mandatory training" makes sense. IIRC, in Polk county there were only two approved trainers prior to the new law. I may have misread it, I agree with you about the availability of training, I was thinking that more people was interested in carrying because we went from may issue to shall issue not the training. I had the interest before the change but held off once the law passed due to the limited acceptable training accepted by my sheriff. The accepted course was 2 days, 8 hours each, given by only one trainer. You had to pay $150 for the training, bring 300 rds. of quality ammo, didn't specify if reloads were acceptable, meaning that factory could easily cost $100 or more. Then you had 2 days off work b/c most classes were run during the week. If you lucked out and got a Friday/Saturday class it was more b/c for most of us a Saturday is overtime.So if I didn't have any vacation to take for the 2 days and had to buy ammo it could have easily cost me $550-$650 + the cost of the permit. With the training requirements for shall issue I had my DD214 to cover my training requirements although I did take a course ($50) to get more info on the laws and scenarios that would be legal self defense situations. So in reality it would have cost me $60 for the 5 yr permit & hard card vs the previous numbers above annually. That is what we call soft corruption...Dave |
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Posted: 12/24/2011 11:24:47 AM
Not surprised that the Register is being more fair. Like any business, they must respond to their customers and the new Editor-in-Chief is a Republican businessman. His job is to save the franchise and not just the liberal portion.
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Posted: 12/24/2011 9:23:59 PM
Originally Posted By F224:
Originally Posted By river_rat:
Originally Posted By Coltgunner:
Originally Posted By Spart:
Originally Posted By Coltgunner:
"In Linn County, Maj. John Godar of the Sheriff’s Department said increased availability of mandatory training has added to Iowans’ interest." Huh? Availability of mandatory training has added to Iowans interest? Training is great but what made it more interesting to Iowans was that the sheriff's couldn't decide who could or could not get a permit. ETA = It was a good article. Makes sense to me. Before the new law, it was up to the sheriffs to decide what training was satisfactory. In many cases, it was down to one or two trainers, and the availability was limited. Now, they have no say in who can and can't train you. So "increased availability of mandatory training" makes sense. IIRC, in Polk county there were only two approved trainers prior to the new law. I may have misread it, I agree with you about the availability of training, I was thinking that more people was interested in carrying because we went from may issue to shall issue not the training. I had the interest before the change but held off once the law passed due to the limited acceptable training accepted by my sheriff. The accepted course was 2 days, 8 hours each, given by only one trainer. You had to pay $150 for the training, bring 300 rds. of quality ammo, didn't specify if reloads were acceptable, meaning that factory could easily cost $100 or more. Then you had 2 days off work b/c most classes were run during the week. If you lucked out and got a Friday/Saturday class it was more b/c for most of us a Saturday is overtime.So if I didn't have any vacation to take for the 2 days and had to buy ammo it could have easily cost me $550-$650 + the cost of the permit. With the training requirements for shall issue I had my DD214 to cover my training requirements although I did take a course ($50) to get more info on the laws and scenarios that would be legal self defense situations. So in reality it would have cost me $60 for the 5 yr permit & hard card vs the previous numbers above annually. That is what we call soft corruption...Dave want another kicker to the story. The approvred trainer was/is a member of the old Iowa Carry and is still a member of IFC but has not posted since May of 2010. Wonder what is up with that. He was an advocate, and probably still is, of training. |
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Strongarm66
Don't forget to stretch.
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Joined: Jul 2007 IA, USA
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Posted: 12/25/2011 12:26:33 AM
Originally Posted By TheMirage:
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20111223/NEWS/312230040/-Unbelievable-rise-in-weapons-permits?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Frontpage Actually a decent article. You taking over the Public Relations slot from Jack Smith? |
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Posted: 12/25/2011 11:11:10 AM
Originally Posted By Strongarm66:
Originally Posted By TheMirage:
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20111223/NEWS/312230040/-Unbelievable-rise-in-weapons-permits?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Frontpage Actually a decent article. You taking over the Public Relations slot from Jack Smith? Just highlighting our hometown folk. |
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Posted: 12/25/2011 11:13:13 AM
Originally Posted By Spart:
Forgot about the training cost in addition to the limited availability. That's what happens when your sheriff can limit the market - no competition on price. I think I paid like $90 or so before the law passed? I paid around $550 I think before the law. I was required to carry $500 or more at all times. So I kept 5-$100 bills in my wallet with my permit to stay legal. (Linn County) |
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Strongarm66
Don't forget to stretch.
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Joined: Jul 2007 IA, USA
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Posted: 12/25/2011 11:37:00 AM
Originally Posted By TheMirage:
Originally Posted By Strongarm66:
Originally Posted By TheMirage:
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20111223/NEWS/312230040/-Unbelievable-rise-in-weapons-permits?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Frontpage Actually a decent article. You taking over the Public Relations slot from Jack Smith? Just highlighting our hometown folk. Sorry Mirage........that comment was aimed at Romper. |
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Posted: 12/25/2011 8:41:51 PM
Did I miss something here Dave?
R |
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Strongarm66
Don't forget to stretch.
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Posted: 12/25/2011 8:46:46 PM
Originally Posted By Romper:
Did I miss something here Dave?
R It's all good R. Just thought maybe we had a personnel change.  |
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Posted: 12/26/2011 1:15:31 AM
River rat, I have had my permit for over 6 years and I took the class you are talking about. Bob knows what he is doing and has a very good class. I have taken two other classes since the new law has taken affect. One was with my GF and her father. Her dad has had his permit since the early 70's. He did not serve or could not find his paper work for his original permit. Anyway, That class was not very good. He covered the very basics. It was more about show and tell about his guns and holsters. The shooting portion was very unsafe as bullet splatter was cumming back and hitting people. The second was with my brother an uncle. This was down in the QC's. not very good. I knew more than the guy teaching.
Both classes I took were just to see what was out there. If most of the classes are like these two, the only reason there has not been anything bad happen is because the people in Iowa have a level head. I would have liked to see more training than what we have now. But, anything more and I feel most people would not be able to get the permit. I feel some of these people do not understand the responsibility they have to have to carry a weapon. I am very glad for the people that were in counties that would not issue before, are not getting their permits. I used to hear about people in our county that said they could not get a permit here. I would ask them if they made time to talk to the Sherrif. They would always say NO, I just filled the paperwork out an handed it in. All Lincoln wanted was to talk to the person that applied. If you would not take the time to talk to him, it showed you were not serious about the permit to begin with. I know I went off topic, I know but I AM glad that the people of Iowa are now shall issue. We righted a wrong by some of the Sherrifs of this state. They were the ones that pushed the issue. WE JUST PUSHED BACK. |
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Posted: 12/26/2011 2:12:54 PM
Originally Posted By tommee-boy-72:
River rat, I have had my permit for over 6 years and I took the class you are talking about. Bob knows what he is doing and has a very good class. I have taken two other classes since the new law has taken affect. One was with my GF and her father. Her dad has had his permit since the early 70's. He did not serve or could not find his paper work for his original permit. Anyway, That class was not very good. He covered the very basics. It was more about show and tell about his guns and holsters. The shooting portion was very unsafe as bullet splatter was cumming back and hitting people. The second was with my brother an uncle. This was down in the QC's. not very good. I knew more than the guy teaching. Both classes I took were just to see what was out there. If most of the classes are like these two, the only reason there has not been anything bad happen is because the people in Iowa have a level head. I would have liked to see more training than what we have now. But, anything more and I feel most people would not be able to get the permit. I feel some of these people do not understand the responsibility they have to have to carry a weapon. I am very glad for the people that were in counties that would not issue before, are not getting their permits. I used to hear about people in our county that said they could not get a permit here. I would ask them if they made time to talk to the Sherrif. They would always say NO, I just filled the paperwork out an handed it in. All Lincoln wanted was to talk to the person that applied. If you would not take the time to talk to him, it showed you were not serious about the permit to begin with. I know I went off topic, I know but I AM glad that the people of Iowa are now shall issue. We righted a wrong by some of the Sherrifs of this state. They were the ones that pushed the issue. WE JUST PUSHED BACK. My comments weren't geared to the content of the class but the cost and cornering of the market by Lincoln and Bob. As far as the training requirements go IFC ( formerly Iowa Carry) looked at it constitutionally. There is no requirement in the second and we have to take it on faith that those who chose to carry would be responsible in doing so. For the most part I believe that has been achieved. You mention asking those who did not receive permits if they had talked to the sheriff. Why should anyone have to talk to the sheriff? This was part of their power trip that led to the fight for shall issue. It should not be discretionary but based on legal fact. Discretion leads to discrimination and that is exactly what was going on throughout the state. |
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Strongarm66
Don't forget to stretch.
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Posted: 12/26/2011 3:45:08 PM
Originally Posted By river_rat:
Originally Posted By tommee-boy-72:
River rat, I have had my permit for over 6 years and I took the class you are talking about. Bob knows what he is doing and has a very good class. I have taken two other classes since the new law has taken affect. One was with my GF and her father. Her dad has had his permit since the early 70's. He did not serve or could not find his paper work for his original permit. Anyway, That class was not very good. He covered the very basics. It was more about show and tell about his guns and holsters. The shooting portion was very unsafe as bullet splatter was cumming back and hitting people. The second was with my brother an uncle. This was down in the QC's. not very good. I knew more than the guy teaching. Both classes I took were just to see what was out there. If most of the classes are like these two, the only reason there has not been anything bad happen is because the people in Iowa have a level head. I would have liked to see more training than what we have now. But, anything more and I feel most people would not be able to get the permit. I feel some of these people do not understand the responsibility they have to have to carry a weapon. I am very glad for the people that were in counties that would not issue before, are not getting their permits. I used to hear about people in our county that said they could not get a permit here. I would ask them if they made time to talk to the Sherrif. They would always say NO, I just filled the paperwork out an handed it in. All Lincoln wanted was to talk to the person that applied. If you would not take the time to talk to him, it showed you were not serious about the permit to begin with. I know I went off topic, I know but I AM glad that the people of Iowa are now shall issue. We righted a wrong by some of the Sherrifs of this state. They were the ones that pushed the issue. WE JUST PUSHED BACK. My comments weren't geared to the content of the class but the cost and cornering of the market by Lincoln and Bob. As far as the training requirements go IFC ( formerly Iowa Carry) looked at it constitutionally. There is no requirement in the second and we have to take it on faith that those who chose to carry would be responsible in doing so. For the most part I believe that has been achieved. You mention asking those who did not receive permits if they had talked to the sheriff. Why should anyone have to talk to the sheriff? This was part of their power trip that led to the fight for shall issue. It should not be discretionary but based on legal fact. Discretion leads to discrimination and that is exactly what was going on throughout the state. For those inquiring minds........that's NOT me. |
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Posted: 12/26/2011 7:56:48 PM
I thought the class was well worth the cost. And for your information, Lincoln would take other training. Bob's class was not the only one he took. A few friends of mine went to a class in Davenport held by a couple of the Deputies. He took that one and one held at Shooting sports in Moline. There were others that I can not remember. Lincoln was way better than Mulhullend. He would only issue to people he knew.
One thing I see with the new training is this. If you are serious about getting a permit, you will pay for a GOOD class. Price will not be the only thing that matters when getting the permit. Most of the new permit holders I see only got it because it is the flavor of the day thing to do. One other thing that gets me is the all or nothing attitude some seem to have about this issue. I do believe that we should not have to have a permit to be able to protect our selves, but, that is just not the way things work nowadays. That was why we got done what we got done. If we took the way of the other group tried to go, we would still be using the old system. But I feel some in the IA carry have this same way of thinking. All or nothing. If people continue to think this way, we can actually be taking steps back instead of forward. Baby steps. How do you think the gov't works. Take a little away at a time and when we wake up. HOW THE HELL DID THIS HAPPEN????? That is how they work. Now that it has been a year and we proved them all wrong, we can now try to tweek the new law even more to our side. |
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Posted: 12/27/2011 6:13:13 AM
When I went to the Sheriff's office and inquired that was the only option offered to me. Secretarial mistake? Possibly. I inquired further and what I wrote was what the situation worked out to be. Take it for what you feel it is worth to you.
I will agree that there are good and bad classes out there. Price is not the determining factor there. I paid $50 for a class with, iirc, one of the founders of the old Iowa Carry. this class was a good class with a good indoctrination into the law and involved scenarios. Being able to fire a gun accurately still does not mean you are safe. Many people can mimic others for a short period of time. Safe gun handling only comes with time handling them in a safe manner every time and temperament is something as important but doesn't necessarily come with experience. Some of the members of IFC may be all or nothing in some aspects but I don't believe there are very many completely constitutional or all or nothing. We have given quarter in many ways to achieve what we have today. We even preach concealed carry over open carry to give the citizens comfort until they can be de-sensitized from the media, despite the fact it is perfectly legal to do so. Please don't get us confused with Iowa Gun Owners and Aaron Dorr. They are the ones who are the blight to Iowa firearms owners. They are the ones who pushed issues the wrong way and ruined the chance for some very good legislation being passed into law. IFC believes in incremental steps to regaining our rights. I do believe that we need to get back to as near constitutional with the 2nd as possible. I do hear what you are saying about the way things are today but just remember that the way things are today is b/c we allowed the liberals to take us down that path. It is never to late to turn back down the road and take the other fork. |
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septic-tank13
think for yourself... question authority...
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Posted: 12/27/2011 11:14:54 AM
IFC (Iowa Firearms Coalition formerly Iowa Carry) is darn proud to be the Iowa NRA affiliate club. I happen to agree with you about most of your sentiment. There are some who are 'all or nothing' in our group. That is just the way the boat floats... We are a growing org and there are lots of opinions. However, we're working daily ALL YEAR ROUND to make this stuff work. There are no other groups doing this.
Unfortunately we lost these rights incrementally and that is the solid approach to getting them back. We all know right is right. But we aren't the people we have to convince - it is everyone else.... We had a handful of law enforcement that were shitting kittens, media preaching the next world war, and joe blow out there yapping about everything they knew nothing about. And what happened? Nothing out of the ordinary... Lesson here? It takes time for people to have an understanding and for this stuff to filter to them properly. That movement is incumbent upon all of us to help with all year round all day long... When IFC and NRA are locked tight together fighting preemption battles in towns and cities, blocking traditional ammo bans, pushing through shall issue, pushing through the dove bill, stopping the shall issue roll back back the anti gunners, holding 2A rallies, working gun shows all year, speaking at outings, organizing caucus packages, etc. we do what we do for 3,000,000 Iowans, not ourselves. It will take the work and aid of everyone reading this to make this work. You should really consider helping us help you. I hope you consider it. Originally Posted By tommee-boy-72:
I thought the class was well worth the cost. And for your information, Lincoln would take other training. Bob's class was not the only one he took. A few friends of mine went to a class in Davenport held by a couple of the Deputies. He took that one and one held at Shooting sports in Moline. There were others that I can not remember. Lincoln was way better than Mulhullend. He would only issue to people he knew. One thing I see with the new training is this. If you are serious about getting a permit, you will pay for a GOOD class. Price will not be the only thing that matters when getting the permit. Most of the new permit holders I see only got it because it is the flavor of the day thing to do. One other thing that gets me is the all or nothing attitude some seem to have about this issue. I do believe that we should not have to have a permit to be able to protect our selves, but, that is just not the way things work nowadays. That was why we got done what we got done. If we took the way of the other group tried to go, we would still be using the old system. But I feel some in the IA carry have this same way of thinking. All or nothing. If people continue to think this way, we can actually be taking steps back instead of forward. Baby steps. How do you think the gov't works. Take a little away at a time and when we wake up. HOW THE HELL DID THIS HAPPEN????? That is how they work. Now that it has been a year and we proved them all wrong, we can now try to tweek the new law even more to our side. |
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Posted: 12/27/2011 1:49:57 PM
Every GS I go to that IFC is at I always drop off $. I am also contributing member on IFC website. I just use a differant name there. Ever since I found out about them I have been giving $. That is my best way to support them. All the people that I know or talk to about getting a permit, I tell them to go to the IFC website and help support them as they are the reason that they are getting the permit. I know most of these people do not do it. They are just like the rest of the society and will let someone else do it for them.
When I got my permit I tried to not be like some of the others and not do anything. One thing I have seen happen before was this. " I have my permit, I don't care about everyone else." These people used to make me mad. But I am over that. I just hope no one takes what I said above wrong. But I don't think that just having a talk to the Sherrif in your county is a bad thing. That way you also get a feel for them. That way you can vote them out if you don't like them. |
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