Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Posted: 6/11/2014 11:06:52 PM EDT
Hello Ladies and Gentlemen,

I hope it's okay to post in your forum.  I've driven through your state only once, and know so very little about it that it's embarrassing.  I have done some internet research, but gotten info that is not really what I need.

I'm editing a book in which the author notes that a wealthy guy has a ranch in South Dakota. She says this ranch is 4000 acres.

We don't have ranches in Kentucky really. We have farms. And a farm is a different thing. I know of ranches out west that are 40,000 acres.  So when I read 4000, that seemed small to me for a "ranch."

But South Dakota is not Wyoming or Montana, and I don't know how it is there.

All the internet stuff I find is about "farms" and the rise and fall of the average number of farms in your state, etc.  Beyond that, these averages have no listing of maximum and minimum size, so it could include a farm that's 2.5 acres and a ranch that's 20,000, as they appear to lump it all together.

Nothing I can find speaks specifically about ranches, so I thought I would ask the people on the ground.

Close is good, as this is fiction.  But it needs to be somewhat realistic.

Can any of you shed light on the realistic size of a big ranch in South Dakota?

I'm sure there are all sizes, very small to very large, but in this context, we are talking about a big ranch that a very wealthy investor/land owner might have.


Thanks in advance for any insight you can give.

Kitties.

Link Posted: 6/12/2014 12:47:27 PM EDT
[#1]
Depends. 4000 acres of high corn yielding land is a lot more than the same amount of land like down where Bundy raises starving cattle. But I guess that's more farm land. Ranches are more common on the western side of the state. A 4000 acre ranch in close proximity to desirable places to live around the Black Hills is going to be extremely valuable compared to some of the stuff in the North Central to North West parts of the state, where there is nothing, land is cheap and those large 10's of thousand acre ranches are more common.
Link Posted: 6/12/2014 2:35:54 PM EDT
[#2]
Easy rule of thumb, west river it's usually a ranch, east river it's usually a farm. The two sides of the state are pretty different geographically.
Link Posted: 6/12/2014 9:00:34 PM EDT
[#3]
I have a 1200 acre spread right near Rapid City. Rapid is the largest town west river. That is to say west of the Missouri River. For being right near the town, that is a big place that is quite valuable. 4000 acres an hour or hour and a half north of here that would be a good size spread but the land is wide open prairie for the most part. So directly answering, it is a realistic size if you are not near Rapid City.
Link Posted: 6/13/2014 1:00:28 AM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I have a 1200 acre spread right near Rapid City. Rapid is the largest town west river. That is to say west of the Missouri River. For being right near the town, that is a big place that is quite valuable. 4000 acres an hour or hour and a half north of here that would be a good size spread but the land is wide open prairie for the most part. So directly answering, it is a realistic size if you are not near Rapid City.
View Quote



Okay thank you!

So it sounds like an extremely wealthy person could reasonably own a 4000 acre ranch in South Dakota, if the specific region is not mentioned, and that would not seem "too small" to be a viable high-dollar operation.

(Nothing else is mentioned in the book about the location of the ranch, so it could be anywhere.)

Link Posted: 6/13/2014 1:01:14 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Depends. 4000 acres of high corn yielding land is a lot more than the same amount of land like down where Bundy raises starving cattle. But I guess that's more farm land. Ranches are more common on the western side of the state. A 4000 acre ranch in close proximity to desirable places to live around the Black Hills is going to be extremely valuable compared to some of the stuff in the North Central to North West parts of the state, where there is nothing, land is cheap and those large 10's of thousand acre ranches are more common.
View Quote

Yes, I'm not talking farms, but cattle ranches.  

So sounds like there are bigger ranches in South Dakota than the 4000 acres...

Link Posted: 6/13/2014 8:14:17 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Yes, I'm not talking farms, but cattle ranches.  

So sounds like there are bigger ranches in South Dakota than the 4000 acres...

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Depends. 4000 acres of high corn yielding land is a lot more than the same amount of land like down where Bundy raises starving cattle. But I guess that's more farm land. Ranches are more common on the western side of the state. A 4000 acre ranch in close proximity to desirable places to live around the Black Hills is going to be extremely valuable compared to some of the stuff in the North Central to North West parts of the state, where there is nothing, land is cheap and those large 10's of thousand acre ranches are more common.

Yes, I'm not talking farms, but cattle ranches.  

So sounds like there are bigger ranches in South Dakota than the 4000 acres...


Ooooooooooooh yes.
Link Posted: 6/13/2014 8:31:46 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Ooooooooooooh yes.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Depends. 4000 acres of high corn yielding land is a lot more than the same amount of land like down where Bundy raises starving cattle. But I guess that's more farm land. Ranches are more common on the western side of the state. A 4000 acre ranch in close proximity to desirable places to live around the Black Hills is going to be extremely valuable compared to some of the stuff in the North Central to North West parts of the state, where there is nothing, land is cheap and those large 10's of thousand acre ranches are more common.

Yes, I'm not talking farms, but cattle ranches.  

So sounds like there are bigger ranches in South Dakota than the 4000 acres...


Ooooooooooooh yes.


Yes there are much bigger places. And it doesn't necessarily take a very wealthy person to own the ranch. Many ranches have been passed down through the generations making the people asset rich and cash poor.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 1:28:36 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yes there are much bigger places. And it doesn't necessarily take a very wealthy person to own the ranch. Many ranches have been passed down through the generations making the people asset rich and cash poor.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Depends. 4000 acres of high corn yielding land is a lot more than the same amount of land like down where Bundy raises starving cattle. But I guess that's more farm land. Ranches are more common on the western side of the state. A 4000 acre ranch in close proximity to desirable places to live around the Black Hills is going to be extremely valuable compared to some of the stuff in the North Central to North West parts of the state, where there is nothing, land is cheap and those large 10's of thousand acre ranches are more common.

Yes, I'm not talking farms, but cattle ranches.  

So sounds like there are bigger ranches in South Dakota than the 4000 acres...


Ooooooooooooh yes.


Yes there are much bigger places. And it doesn't necessarily take a very wealthy person to own the ranch. Many ranches have been passed down through the generations making the people asset rich and cash poor.


Same as farmers everywhere from my experience (raised on a Kentucky tobacco/cattle farm).

Sounds like 4000 acres, if the specific location is not mentioned, could mean a wealthy "rancher".  So I won't edit that out of the book.

Thanks so much for the help.

Link Posted: 6/19/2014 1:29:09 AM EDT
[#9]
Thanks to all of you for the information.

It's nice to be able to get it right.  
Link Posted: 6/25/2014 5:25:59 PM EDT
[#10]
I live about in the middle of West River... 4,000 acres is right at 6 1/4 Sections, probably run about 260 head (around 15 acres per cow here). As someone else mentioned. Pretty much all Ranches around here are family owned that were passed down and turned into Corps. etc. Some families grew by getting the sons involved and buying up the smaller guys when they moved to town. So some names have lots and lots of land/cattle. Other than Ted Turner I cannot think of the last "out of towner" to come in and buy a ranch.

Here is a ranch out in this part of the country, a bit over 7,500 acres asking just shy of $9 million. Sounds a bit steep for West River land to me, but it has been going crazy the last few years. So about $4 million ranch for your book, not sure if that is wealthy enough for the story....
http://www.landwatch.com/Ziebach-County-South-Dakota-Farms-and-Ranches-for-sale/pid/289062456
Link Posted: 6/27/2014 12:48:23 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I live about in the middle of West River... 4,000 acres is right at 6 1/4 Sections, probably run about 260 head (around 15 acres per cow here). As someone else mentioned. Pretty much all Ranches around here are family owned that were passed down and turned into Corps. etc. Some families grew by getting the sons involved and buying up the smaller guys when they moved to town. So some names have lots and lots of land/cattle. Other than Ted Turner I cannot think of the last "out of towner" to come in and buy a ranch.

Here is a ranch out in this part of the country, a bit over 7,500 acres asking just shy of $9 million. Sounds a bit steep for West River land to me, but it has been going crazy the last few years. So about $4 million ranch for your book, not sure if that is wealthy enough for the story....
http://www.landwatch.com/Ziebach-County-South-Dakota-Farms-and-Ranches-for-sale/pid/289062456
View Quote



Kit_Karson, yes, that is plenty wealthy for this senator to be.

He bites the dust anyhow, so you know, because he's smuggling cattle out to someone you would never expect.  I can't say more than that.

Thank you so much for the dollar figures. That actually helps a lot.

Hard to know when you're not from the area.  I don't need to know what "a section" is, for this book, but I have no clue what that means.

Good example of how things are different from one place to another.  In this small world, as the crow flies, Kentucky is not that far from South Dakota. But things are obviously handled very differently there.

Many thanks!

Kitties
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 9:34:10 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Easy rule of thumb, west river it's usually a ranch, east river it's usually a farm. The two sides of the state are pretty different geographically.
View Quote


There is also what I call the transition area, between the James River and the Missouri River where you have both farms and ranches depending on the quality of an individual piece of land or the inclinations of the owner.
Link Posted: 7/13/2014 9:39:33 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


There is also what I call the transition area, between the James River and the Missouri River where you have both farms and ranches depending on the quality of an individual piece of land or the inclinations of the owner.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Easy rule of thumb, west river it's usually a ranch, east river it's usually a farm. The two sides of the state are pretty different geographically.


There is also what I call the transition area, between the James River and the Missouri River where you have both farms and ranches depending on the quality of an individual piece of land or the inclinations of the owner.


This too. I know a good number that have some cattle and plant row crops as well.

Unlike KY where you are used to the Meets and Bounds system land out here is laid out using the Public Land Survey System that started back in 1785. It was Thomas Jefferson's idea and most of the nation is laid out like this. Interesting read if you are so intrigued.. anyway the basics:

  • A "section" is a chunk of land 1 mile by 1 mile (on this side of the state you most likely will not have a road on all sides).

  • 36 sections (6 miles by 6 miles) make up a township (usually looks like Township ###N (or S) Range ##W (or E) S ## then a quarter will be called out by using NW, NE, SE, SW 1/4 if required (call this the TRSQ for short - Township
  • Range Section Quarter). For easy of reference these 36 mile blocks are usually named as well though anything legal will use the entire TRSQ. Examples would be Independence Township, Old Township, American Township... all sorts of them and many have pretty interesting stories of how they got their name.

  • 1 section happens to be 640 acres then they split it up from there.

  • Half section is half mile on one side by a mile on the other (320 Acres).

  • Quarter Section is half mile by a half mile (160 acres).

  • [*]Then sometimes that will be split up into chunks usually called 40's (40 acres *4 = 160 acres). Gives some explanation some old sayings like "take that tractor up to the North 40" or "so and so lives on the East 40".


Anyway, I rambled enough... I haven't read a non-fiction book in years. Lemme know when it is released. It sounds like something I would probably be interested in!
Link Posted: 7/16/2014 9:49:50 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


This too. I know a good number that have some cattle and plant row crops as well.

Unlike KY where you are used to the Meets and Bounds system land out here is laid out using the Public Land Survey System that started back in 1785. It was Thomas Jefferson's idea and most of the nation is laid out like this. Interesting read if you are so intrigued.. anyway the basics:

  • A "section" is a chunk of land 1 mile by 1 mile (on this side of the state you most likely will not have a road on all sides).

  • 36 sections (6 miles by 6 miles) make up a township (usually looks like Township ###N (or S) Range ##W (or E) S ## then a quarter will be called out by using NW, NE, SE, SW 1/4 if required (call this the TRSQ for short - Township
  • Range Section Quarter). For easy of reference these 36 mile blocks are usually named as well though anything legal will use the entire TRSQ. Examples would be Independence Township, Old Township, American Township... all sorts of them and many have pretty interesting stories of how they got their name.

  • 1 section happens to be 640 acres then they split it up from there.

  • Half section is half mile on one side by a mile on the other (320 Acres).

  • Quarter Section is half mile by a half mile (160 acres).

  • [*]Then sometimes that will be split up into chunks usually called 40's (40 acres *4 = 160 acres). Gives some explanation some old sayings like "take that tractor up to the North 40" or "so and so lives on the East 40".


Anyway, I rambled enough... I haven't read a non-fiction book in years. Lemme know when it is released. It sounds like something I would probably be interested in!
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Easy rule of thumb, west river it's usually a ranch, east river it's usually a farm. The two sides of the state are pretty different geographically.


There is also what I call the transition area, between the James River and the Missouri River where you have both farms and ranches depending on the quality of an individual piece of land or the inclinations of the owner.


This too. I know a good number that have some cattle and plant row crops as well.

Unlike KY where you are used to the Meets and Bounds system land out here is laid out using the Public Land Survey System that started back in 1785. It was Thomas Jefferson's idea and most of the nation is laid out like this. Interesting read if you are so intrigued.. anyway the basics:

  • A "section" is a chunk of land 1 mile by 1 mile (on this side of the state you most likely will not have a road on all sides).

  • 36 sections (6 miles by 6 miles) make up a township (usually looks like Township ###N (or S) Range ##W (or E) S ## then a quarter will be called out by using NW, NE, SE, SW 1/4 if required (call this the TRSQ for short - Township
  • Range Section Quarter). For easy of reference these 36 mile blocks are usually named as well though anything legal will use the entire TRSQ. Examples would be Independence Township, Old Township, American Township... all sorts of them and many have pretty interesting stories of how they got their name.

  • 1 section happens to be 640 acres then they split it up from there.

  • Half section is half mile on one side by a mile on the other (320 Acres).

  • Quarter Section is half mile by a half mile (160 acres).

  • [*]Then sometimes that will be split up into chunks usually called 40's (40 acres *4 = 160 acres). Gives some explanation some old sayings like "take that tractor up to the North 40" or "so and so lives on the East 40".


Anyway, I rambled enough... I haven't read a non-fiction book in years. Lemme know when it is released. It sounds like something I would probably be interested in!



That's all incredibly interesting to me actually!  I love learning how things came to be like this.  I could just read the facts, but it wouldn't "stick" if that makes sense.  Knowing the history makes me more likely to actually remember what you've said here.

And as to the book, it's Urban sci-fi/fantasy with a heavy romantic component, so I'm guessing not, though you might surprise me by liking that kind of thing. It's a new genre this author is trying, so we'll see how successfully she pulls it off.
Link Posted: 7/16/2014 10:12:52 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



That's all incredibly interesting to me actually!  I love learning how things came to be like this.  I could just read the facts, but it wouldn't "stick" if that makes sense.  Knowing the history makes me more likely to actually remember what you've said here.

And as to the book, it's Urban sci-fi/fantasy with a heavy romantic component, so I'm guessing not, though you might surprise me by liking that kind of thing. It's a new genre this author is trying, so we'll see how successfully she pulls it off.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Easy rule of thumb, west river it's usually a ranch, east river it's usually a farm. The two sides of the state are pretty different geographically.


There is also what I call the transition area, between the James River and the Missouri River where you have both farms and ranches depending on the quality of an individual piece of land or the inclinations of the owner.


This too. I know a good number that have some cattle and plant row crops as well.

Unlike KY where you are used to the Meets and Bounds system land out here is laid out using the Public Land Survey System that started back in 1785. It was Thomas Jefferson's idea and most of the nation is laid out like this. Interesting read if you are so intrigued.. anyway the basics:

  • A "section" is a chunk of land 1 mile by 1 mile (on this side of the state you most likely will not have a road on all sides).

  • 36 sections (6 miles by 6 miles) make up a township (usually looks like Township ###N (or S) Range ##W (or E) S ## then a quarter will be called out by using NW, NE, SE, SW 1/4 if required (call this the TRSQ for short - Township
  • Range Section Quarter). For easy of reference these 36 mile blocks are usually named as well though anything legal will use the entire TRSQ. Examples would be Independence Township, Old Township, American Township... all sorts of them and many have pretty interesting stories of how they got their name.

  • 1 section happens to be 640 acres then they split it up from there.

  • Half section is half mile on one side by a mile on the other (320 Acres).

  • Quarter Section is half mile by a half mile (160 acres).

  • [*]Then sometimes that will be split up into chunks usually called 40's (40 acres *4 = 160 acres). Gives some explanation some old sayings like "take that tractor up to the North 40" or "so and so lives on the East 40".


Anyway, I rambled enough... I haven't read a non-fiction book in years. Lemme know when it is released. It sounds like something I would probably be interested in!



That's all incredibly interesting to me actually!  I love learning how things came to be like this.  I could just read the facts, but it wouldn't "stick" if that makes sense.  Knowing the history makes me more likely to actually remember what you've said here.

And as to the book, it's Urban sci-fi/fantasy with a heavy romantic component, so I'm guessing not, though you might surprise me by liking that kind of thing. It's a new genre this author is trying, so we'll see how successfully she pulls it off.


Heh. Actually.. I am an Electrical Engineer by trade, so the Sci-fi/fantasy thing is not as far off as you might imagine! The romantic part might be too heavy though if it is suppose to be a mashup of a Fabio/Jules Verne!
Link Posted: 7/17/2014 1:27:54 AM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Heh. Actually.. I am an Electrical Engineer by trade, so the Sci-fi/fantasy thing is not as far off as you might imagine! The romantic part might be too heavy though if it is suppose to be a mashup of a Fabio/Jules Verne!
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Easy rule of thumb, west river it's usually a ranch, east river it's usually a farm. The two sides of the state are pretty different geographically.


There is also what I call the transition area, between the James River and the Missouri River where you have both farms and ranches depending on the quality of an individual piece of land or the inclinations of the owner.


This too. I know a good number that have some cattle and plant row crops as well.

Unlike KY where you are used to the Meets and Bounds system land out here is laid out using the Public Land Survey System that started back in 1785. It was Thomas Jefferson's idea and most of the nation is laid out like this. Interesting read if you are so intrigued.. anyway the basics:

  • A "section" is a chunk of land 1 mile by 1 mile (on this side of the state you most likely will not have a road on all sides).

  • 36 sections (6 miles by 6 miles) make up a township (usually looks like Township ###N (or S) Range ##W (or E) S ## then a quarter will be called out by using NW, NE, SE, SW 1/4 if required (call this the TRSQ for short - Township
  • Range Section Quarter). For easy of reference these 36 mile blocks are usually named as well though anything legal will use the entire TRSQ. Examples would be Independence Township, Old Township, American Township... all sorts of them and many have pretty interesting stories of how they got their name.

  • 1 section happens to be 640 acres then they split it up from there.

  • Half section is half mile on one side by a mile on the other (320 Acres).

  • Quarter Section is half mile by a half mile (160 acres).

  • [*]Then sometimes that will be split up into chunks usually called 40's (40 acres *4 = 160 acres). Gives some explanation some old sayings like "take that tractor up to the North 40" or "so and so lives on the East 40".


Anyway, I rambled enough... I haven't read a non-fiction book in years. Lemme know when it is released. It sounds like something I would probably be interested in!



That's all incredibly interesting to me actually!  I love learning how things came to be like this.  I could just read the facts, but it wouldn't "stick" if that makes sense.  Knowing the history makes me more likely to actually remember what you've said here.

And as to the book, it's Urban sci-fi/fantasy with a heavy romantic component, so I'm guessing not, though you might surprise me by liking that kind of thing. It's a new genre this author is trying, so we'll see how successfully she pulls it off.


Heh. Actually.. I am an Electrical Engineer by trade, so the Sci-fi/fantasy thing is not as far off as you might imagine! The romantic part might be too heavy though if it is suppose to be a mashup of a Fabio/Jules Verne!


Haha!

I can almost guarantee that no tentacles will be involved in the romance.
Link Posted: 7/17/2014 10:59:52 PM EDT
[#17]
WHOA, WHOA, WHOA!!! I am not THAT geeky!!!! :-P
Link Posted: 7/18/2014 9:54:34 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
WHOA, WHOA, WHOA!!! I am not THAT geeky!!!! :-P
View Quote

Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top