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Posted: 1/22/2015 6:50:07 AM EDT
I want a SBR and suppressor ar15 platform in the state of MI.  Have several different configs of Colts already, but I figure this is the Holy Grail since can't afford full auto, nor do I need it!!  Where does one begin?  I live in Monroe county, and would like someone to get me to Nirvana.  I have read about trusts, all the other nuances involved, and work all the time so I am looking for expediency as far as what to do.  Thank You!!
Link Posted: 1/22/2015 9:34:37 AM EDT
[#1]
Do you want to build your SBR, or do you want to buy it pre-assembled from an FFL?

The pre-assembled SBR without a trust route will be the easiest (trust may be better, but there's the work to have the trust written) as you can go to a local Class 3 FFL (I'm not familiar with those in the Monroe area) and pick out an SBR and suppressor. The FFL will assist you in filling out the proper ATF Form 4 for the SBR and another Form 4 for the suppressor. You'll pay for the 2 items, plus $200 for each Form 4 (although that goes to the ATF rather than the FFL). Then you wait a few months for the approved tax stamps to return so you can take them to the FFL to pick up your new items.

The trust vs. single applicant route is a toss up. There are a few reasons to go the trust route. With a trust, you can circumvent a local chief LEO who does not like to sign off on the Form 4. You can also allow any trustee to take possession of the NFA items registered to the trust. Without the trust, you must be present, or the NFA items must be securely stored away. One possible downside of the trust is that the ATF is attempting to rewrite the regulations to require a local chief LEO signature on Form 4s from trusts, and possibly also require passport-quality photos and fingerprints from every trustee. If all of the trustees are immediate family, that shouldn't be too much extra burden and it would still allow multiple individuals to take possession of the NFA items.
Link Posted: 1/22/2015 10:10:58 AM EDT
[#2]
Sign up over on MGO, look up the guy doing MI trusts and get one done.  I wish I had started with a trust when I got in the game.  From there I'd build an SBR off a cheap readily available lower and pick out a suppressor.
Link Posted: 1/24/2015 10:25:52 AM EDT
[#3]
Set up a trust like "[your last name] NFA Trust"  Use competent legal counsel that has done NFA trusts,  Not your parents estate lawyer.  Choose your upper but do not buy it.  Determine OAL as if it sat on one of your lowers.  Determine bbl length.  Use the AFT website and file form 1 to transfer to your trust, pay the tax on line. No photo, no fingerprints. Use the sn of the lower you want to dedicate to an sbr.  try to register in multi calibers.  While waiting for approval, get lower marked with your trust name, city and state, ie., Smith NFA Trust, City, Mi.  When form 1 approved purchase upper and assemble.  Keep the Form 1 with the gun.  At the same time, go to a class three and pick out a suppressor.  Consider the sdn 6.  Its for 308 but there is virtually no difference between it and a suppressor dedicated only for .223, Plus it gives you more versatility 7.62 NATO, 300 AAC, 6.8 SPC, 6.5, and 5.56mm NATO.  Give Class three your trust, and he will take care of the paperwork and file to transfer to your trust on a form 4.  Pay for suppressor and wait 8 months. When form 4 returned pick up suppressor,  Keep paperwork with suppressor.  Buy muzzle break.quick disconnect suppressor attachment from advanced armament.  Put suppressor on .  Next buy 300 blackout upper in same bbl length as original gun.  swap out upper at range,  When done return to original configuration.  2 guns, one suppressor, Twice the fun, half the price.  I assume your wife knows all about this?  Right?
Link Posted: 1/24/2015 2:27:46 PM EDT
[#4]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Set up a trust like "[your last name] NFA Trust"  Use competent legal counsel that has done NFA trusts,  Not your parents estate lawyer.  Choose your upper but do not buy it.  Determine OAL as if it sat on one of your lowers.  Determine bbl length.  Use the AFT website and file form 1 to transfer to your trust, pay the tax on line. No photo, no fingerprints. Use the sn of the lower you want to dedicate to an sbr.  try to register in multi calibers.  While waiting for approval, get lower marked with your trust name, city and state, ie., Smith NFA Trust, City, Mi.  When form 1 approved purchase upper and assemble.  Keep the Form 1 with the gun.  At the same time, go to a class three and pick out a suppressor.  Consider the sdn 6.  Its for 308 but there is virtually no difference between it and a suppressor dedicated only for .223, Plus it gives you more versatility 7.62 NATO, 300 AAC, 6.8 SPC, 6.5, and 5.56mm NATO.  Give Class three your trust, and he will take care of the paperwork and file to transfer to your trust on a form 4.  Pay for suppressor and wait 8 months. When form 4 returned pick up suppressor,  Keep paperwork with suppressor.  Buy muzzle break.quick disconnect suppressor attachment from advanced armament.  Put suppressor on .  Next buy 300 blackout upper in same bbl length as original gun.  swap out upper at range,  When done return to original configuration.  2 guns, one suppressor, Twice the fun, half the price.  I assume your wife knows all about this?  Right?
View Quote
This.

 
Tho,lead times on a form 4 are hovering around a good 3 months.

And I believe they won't accept "multi calibers" anymore on the form 1.
Link Posted: 1/24/2015 3:02:45 PM EDT
[#5]
No more multi calibers but you can temporarily put any upper on that you want.  The last 5 form 1's I did took 3- 3 1/2 months.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 9:05:06 PM EDT
[#6]
Wife doesn't have any idea what any of this means, might as well speak russian.  I am not sure if I have the need to pursue this, considering all the bullshit!  The primary reason would be to facilitate more shooting in the back 40 without disturbing others, or giving neighbors the idea a gun-nut lives in the hood!  I guess they will have to continue listening in.  A lot of hoops to jump thru to be polite, the cool factor is pretty high though.
Link Posted: 1/26/2015 8:52:30 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Wife doesn't have any idea what any of this means, might as well speak russian.  I am not sure if I have the need to pursue this, considering all the bullshit!  The primary reason would be to facilitate more shooting in the back 40 without disturbing others, or giving neighbors the idea a gun-nut lives in the hood!  I guess they will have to continue listening in.  A lot of hoops to jump thru to be polite, the cool factor is pretty high though.
View Quote

It's really not as bad as you may think.

The suppressor is straight forward. A trip to a lawyer to establish an NFA trust. Then a trip to a Class 3 FFL to select a suppressor and send in the Form 4. Wait a few months to hear back from the ATF, and then return to the Class 3 FFL to pick up your suppressor.

The SBR could follow the same procedure if you buy a factory-built SBR. Otherwise it's buy your lower and submit your Form 1. Then wait to hear from the ATF and have your lower engraved while waiting. Then buy the short upper/barrel when the Form 1 comes back approved.
Link Posted: 1/26/2015 8:55:13 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Set up a trust like "[your last name] NFA Trust"  Use competent legal counsel that has done NFA trusts,  Not your parents estate lawyer.  Choose your upper but do not buy it.  Determine OAL as if it sat on one of your lowers.  Determine bbl length.  Use the AFT website and file form 1 to transfer to your trust, pay the tax on line. No photo, no fingerprints. Use the sn of the lower you want to dedicate to an sbr.  try to register in multi calibers.  While waiting for approval, get lower marked with your trust name, city and state, ie., Smith NFA Trust, City, Mi.  When form 1 approved purchase upper and assemble.  Keep the Form 1 with the gun.  At the same time, go to a class three and pick out a suppressor.  Consider the sdn 6.  Its for 308 but there is virtually no difference between it and a suppressor dedicated only for .223, Plus it gives you more versatility 7.62 NATO, 300 AAC, 6.8 SPC, 6.5, and 5.56mm NATO.  Give Class three your trust, and he will take care of the paperwork and file to transfer to your trust on a form 4.  Pay for suppressor and wait 8 months. When form 4 returned pick up suppressor,  Keep paperwork with suppressor.  Buy muzzle break.quick disconnect suppressor attachment from advanced armament.  Put suppressor on .  Next buy 300 blackout upper in same bbl length as original gun.  swap out upper at range,  When done return to original configuration.  2 guns, one suppressor, Twice the fun, half the price.  I assume your wife knows all about this?  Right?
View Quote

I don't know how many times I read that as "Choose your lower but do not buy it." I was wondering what you were talking about. I couldn't figure out how you could choose your lower, but not buy it before starting the Form 1. Then I finally reread this for the millionth time this morning and the word "upper" finally struck me.
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