I'm graduating school and starting work in Dearborn in early August. First, I need to find a place to live. I'm 25 and unmarried, no pets or roommates -- just me. Other than guns, my main hobbies are roadracing (cars) and brewing beer. So here's what I'm looking for:

- 2+ car garage
- decent kitchen
- outdoor area for cooking/brewing
- not in a ghetto area
- enough storage/living space to accommodate my hobbies
- would like to keep rent ~$1000 if possible, would spend up to maybe $1500 if needed
- 30 min or less commute to Dearborn

Friends have recommended Canton, Plymouth, and Belleville to me. I like Ann Arbor but the commute is a bit too far. The nice bars and college girls are nice, but I also think I'd be happy living somewhere more rural if that's possible. Please let me know what suggestions you have for towns, neighborhoods, or even specific houses.

I also need some help understanding MI gun laws. First, the handgun registration thing. I see that you need a permit when you purchase a handgun, although I believe if you have a concealed carry license you merely file a form after the fact. Is that correct? I also read in another thread here that one of the posters believed that if you simply move into the state with handguns already, you don't have to do anything. But I also read that you need to fill out the handgun purchase permit form, so I'm confused.

I have a valid, current OH concealed carry permit that will expire this November. Michigan honors Ohio permits, but I also read here that they only honor permits from other states if you are a resident of that other state. I thought about renewing my OH permit before I leave, but I am guessing that my permit would not be honored once I moved to Michigan. Can I apply for a Michigan permit using my Ohio permit as proof of competency? Is there a residence requirement (e.g. 6 months) before applying for a MI permit?

Thanks guys!

Well, I had a nice response typed out, but then my browser crashed Let's try this again...

You sound a lot like me. I'm 24, single, enjoy guns, home brewing, motorcycles, and fireworks.

The cities your friends recommended are all good to go. Canton and Plymouth will have more open land, yet still have easy access to all of the city ammenities. Other places to consider are Taylor, Huron Twp, and New Boston. If you want more of a city life, look to Ferndal, Royal Oak, Madison Heights, and Troy. Stay away from the Detroit River shoreline south of Detroit. Areas like Ecorse, Lincoln Park, and Wyandotte are not very good. While you say Ann Arbor is too far for you, the US-23/Geddes Rd interchange is a very nice part of town. It's within your commute range and still close to downtown AA. Let me caution you though, AA is a Democrat's city. I went to U of M for 4 years and loved the college life, but don't want the Dems lifestyle.

The pistol registration is done on an MI RI-60 form. Any pistol possessed in MI must be registered, even those you owned prior to moving here.

Being I've lived here my entire life, I'm not 100% on the process for registering pistols you bring into MI. I would contact the LE branch where ever you decide to live. I know you will need to submit one copy of the RI-60 to the local LE branch and maintain a 2nd copy with the pistol at all times for the first 30 days after submitting a copy to the local LE branch. You'll have to go into the LE branch where they'll run a NICS check and provide the forms. You'll fill them out with yourself as purchaser and seller.

The law regarding MI concealed pistol license (CPL) applications is MCL 28.425b. The part you're primarily interested in is this:

I'm not sure if you will need to take one of MI's CPL courses through a local gun range or not. If you do, they run about $100 and take a full Saturday. I do not believe you OH permit is valid in MI once you establish residency here.

Also to note, in MI the permits are called CPLs while the crime of carrying a concealed weapon illegally is a CCW. Many people use them interchangeably, but legally they're different and LE interpret them differently.

You'll need to familiarize yourself with our pistol free zones (PFZs) as well.

Don't bother with Canton, the high Indian population pretty much means that your new place will smell like Curry-serious. Plymouth is really nice (I work there) but a little pricey. Northville is the same without the nightlife, Novi is worth looking at, but to be honest, I'd be looking in the Commerce/Wolverine Lake/Walled Lake area. It's about as 'rural' as you are going to get that is close the Dearborn and housing is still reasonable. Wixom might be a stretch on distance, but again, there are really nice houses. Commerce is affordable, Wolverine Lake is some of the affordability of Commerce with the nicer neighborhoods of Walled Lake/Wixom. I bought a house in Wolverine Lake last summer and am loving the shit out of it.

I picked all of those cities because of their close proximity to 96/275/Lodge freeway, and Commerce/Wolverine Lake/Walled Lake because M-5 makes it a direct shot to 696, the lodge, and southfield road for getting to Dearborn. I know that places like Plymouth and Royal Oak are the cosmopolitan places to be seen when you are a hipster, but from what I know about you Sage, I'd suggest Oakland County. The difference in attitides and the way things are done is a lot different on this side of 696. Commute times are largely dependant on what time you drive-on a clear day I could be in Dearborn in 30-35 minutes.

You are welcome to come up to visit and I'll show you around.

Hey! What happened to that young Chicky-Snack you were with back when we went on that ride?

As a Royal Joke resident, I agree with staying the hell out of this town. There is a ticking time bomb of legacy pension/retirement costs for municipal employees here, and since the majority of morons who live here lean Democrat they are easily convinced to vote themselves higher taxes.

Wherever you look, I'd do some research into the local munipality's legacy retirement obligations. Avoid the ticking time bombs!

Canton is a nice area. Ypsilanti Township (S of 94) is where I live and I enjoy this area.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and information.

I started looking at Taylor and there are a lot of cheap (< $1000/mo) places available with two car garages, so thanks for that suggestion.

Can you tell me more about the Belleville/Van Buren area?

I don't know a whole lot about Belleville or Van Buren, but I've lived in Taylor most of my life.

They are a couple areas to stay away from, but overall it's decent.  There are even a couple of 'country' type neighborhoods left.

We had a huge growth spurt about 15 years ago.

My best friend lived in Taylor back then-it was pretty hot in the real estate market. Then the Section 8 types came in from Detroit and some areas hit the shitter with a quickness. Taylor actually bought some of the apartment buildings, kicked the ghetto trash out and tore them down-my friend's brother is a Taylor cop and he's never short on good stories....

Honestly, I can't recommend anyone live anywhere in Wayne County anymore. The few places that are worth living in and will stay worth living in for the next 10-16 years are so expensive to people making normal wages that they aren't worth mentioning.

Yep.  I despised the mayor we had back then.  But when the fed.gov wanted to expand sec 8 housing, he personally took the check back to DC.

He then asked for a special millage to buy up 1/2 of it, and it passed by about 90%.  If anything, Taylor has improved dramatically.

I go to church in Belleville; about a 15 minute drive for me as I live S. of Ypsi., work in Saline, and my kids go to school in Milan.  The Belleville area has a small town feel and is quite nice. I would pick Milan or Saline first but the commute wouldn't meet your criteria . You can get rural very fast just a little S. of Belleville.  I wouldn't hesitate to move there.

You want rural living with in 30 minutes of Dearborn ?  Belleville.... I lived there,, worked in Dearborn and shot out my backyard daily! Eff the other cities when it comes to firearm usage!!!

If I were you I'd "stretch" my drive time a bit and live in the Monroe County area.  If I could do what I do for the General in Milford but in Dearborn that's where I'd live.  Being able to shoot in my back yard would trump any night life deficiencies!

We are in the same boat. I work in Dearborn right by Greenfield Village/Henry Ford Museum. We live in Wyandotte. Its a great town on the Detroit river, but the lots are small. We want a few acres and a large garage or outbuilding for my hobbies. We are looking south of I-94, between I-275 and  I-75, possibly a little west of I-275 as well. Belleville is great, but not the best schools for the kids.

I live in Sumpter Township just south of Belleville.  It's pretty rural, we've got a couple of of acres.  I like it, we're out of town, yet still pretty close to everything.  Wayne county sucks but most of the places you're considering are in Wayne county.

One nice feature in Taylor is the Pistol Club... we have access to the city's Police ranges (indoor and outdoor) in trade for upkeep and a community training.  So, not exactly back yard convenience, but you won't find another club in SE Michigan that allows the type of practice we do on Wednesday nights with nice ranges.  Most of us are training junkies and share the curriculum we learn in classes we take.

I've been up here looking at properties for the last three days. Found a couple decent places in Westland and Livonia, but the place I really like is on the east side of Detroit near Grosse Pointe. Seems roughly sandwiched between the nice lakefront properties to the northeast and hood/abandoned buildings to the southwest.

I really liked the Belleville area, but I'm not finding much available for rent.

Grosse Pt to Dearborn would probably put you on I94 a lot. Don't drive it daily myself but do drive through the I75/I94 interchange, it's usually a CF.

Yea, that 94 commute would really suck.

You are correct. I checked during rush hour this morning and Google puts it at about half an hour.

I put in an application for the place today. I'm pretty excited because the back yard/garage is huge.

Welcome to Michigan.  The commute along 94 can be a challenge especially if there's an accident but I'm sure after a while you'll find that out for yourself.  

whats it take to join?


nevermind, I work during the range hours

Dearborn is the largest concentration of Arabs outside the Middle East (No I'm not kidding, it really is), be prepared for that.  No snackbars yet, but the century is still young, in the mean time you have Arab everything including language, signage, food, and culture, it's really like living in the Middle East.

As for gun laws:

Permit for purchase is only required for those who do not have a CPL, all others use RI60's, you can download, and print those yourself.  If you do need a purchase permit, you will have to go to your local police station, (or Sheriff's office if you don't have a local department), and ask for one, it is supposed to be free, and instant, but some departments like to make up there own (illegal) rules, and charge you for it, and make you come back another day to pick it up, it must be notarized, and they may charge a small fee ($5 max) for that, but they must give you the option of using a different notary, however again some departments disregard the law, and make up their own rules.

CPL's are $105, and are good for 4-5 years depending on when you apply/when they are approved, they ALWAYS expire on your Birthday.  In addition you will need a class first, the normal one is NRA Personal Protection Inside The Home, although MCOLES instructors can offer their own classes as well.  Expect to pay $100-$150 for a class.  You will also need a passport photo, and get finger printed.  The finger printing is supposed to be free, but again some departments make up their own illegal rules.  Likewise you can have the passport photo taken any where, but some county clerks illegally insist they take it themselves for an outrageous fee ($15 at the Clerks office Vs. $4 at Walmart).

CPL renewals DO NOT REQUIRE A CLASS, you can do the review on your own, any instructor that tells you different is lying to you.

A CPL Renewal application that is submitted at least 90 days prior to your license expiring are automatically renewed for 45 days if the renewal is not processed in time provided you attach the receipt to your license.

The time it takes to approve a new CPL application varies from county to county, but it is usually between 2-4 weeks, but the more urban counties can take about 6, they are supposed to do it within 45 days, but again this is often ignored.  Wayne county is probably the worse, they are better than they were, but I have heard stories of some people waiting 6 months, or more.

All NFA items are now legal.

Handguns you already own must be registered within 30 days, you fill out the form as both the buyer, and the seller.  The form can be hand delivered to your local police station, or mailed in.

Failing to register is only a Civil Infraction (you just get a ticket).

You must be a resident of Michigan for 6 months before applying for a CPL (not sure if this is effected by your already having an Ohio one, the question doesn't come up much).

Many Misterminers are temporary CPL disqualifiers, there is a full list available (see the Michigan Important Documents tacked thread), but most have to do with drunk driving, or weapons charges.

You may not carry a CONCEALED pistol in schools, daycares, any "entertainment facility" seating 2,000, or more people (most movie theaters fall in to this category), church (unless you have permission from the priest, or pastor, though I would recommend getting that permission in writing), bars (defined as any place getting 51% or more of it's profits from the sale of alcohol by the glass to be consumed on premises, this does NOT include restaurants that just happen to serve alcohol despite what some moronic instructors teach), sports arenas, or stadiums, hospitals, Casinos, or dormitories, or classrooms, of Colleges, or Universities.  This does NOT apply to the parking lots of these places.

You do NOT need a CPL to Open Carry, however the Open Carry "Pistol Free Zone" list is even more restrictive, you can add Banks, and ANY place that even SELLS alcohol (regardless if it is by the glass, or is consumed on premises) which includes Grocery stores.  Also they consider carrying in your car or on ANY "vehicle" including bicycles to be concealed regardless if it actually is or not, so if you do not have a CPL you will have to unholster, unload, and case your pistol every time you get in to your car, and you have to do that OUTSIDE of the car.  Also unlike the concealed list parking lots ARE INCLUDED.

If you have a CPL, but OPEN CARRY, then neither list applies to you, and you may carry anywhere INCLUDING the "pistol free zones" of both the Concealed, and open lists.  The only place you can not carry is a court, or federal facility.  However this applies ONLY is you are not carrying ANY concealed pistol, so if you have an open primary, and concealed backup you still can't go in to a "pistol free zone" (concealed list) unless you either Open Carry the backup to, or put the backup in your car.

Long guns may be carried as well so long as they are Open Carried (Is there any other way to do it?), most people don't do this, but it is important to note because anything in a car is considered concealed so if you keep a long gun in your car it MUST be unloaded, and either cased, and, or in the trunk.

Some people have "Michigan Pistols" that is long guns that are registered as pistols, but you can no longer do this, the people who already had them are Grandfathered in, but no new registrations are allowed, and the old ones are not transferable.

Tazers are retarded, but legal as long as you have a CPL.

We can have OC Spray, but no more than 10% concentration, however most stores apparently have not gotten the memo that the law changed because you usually can't find more than 2% (the old law).

No CS, or CN allowed (practically speaking)

Spring Assisted knives are OK, but NOT automatic knives.  There is NO restriction on blade length, the only restriction in the law applies specifically to those with unlawful intent.

Michigan has full state level preemption.

Preemption applies ONLY to guns, and ammo though, not to knives, or OC, so be aware.

As for your Ohio CPL, Michigan will honor it as long as you are still a resident of Ohio, there MIGHT be a carry over while your Michigan application is pending, but I'm not certain, the question just doesn't come up that much.

Google was being optimistic.  It might be 1/2 hour at 0300.

Rush hour will be a whole different story, especially if there is an accident.  Seems like a daily occurrence.

We still have Michigan Pistols, what changed was the length required to register. Now it's anything under 26", and they know we will be carrying them-so go ahead and build that SBR!

I was talking about non NFA.