Trying to make some sense of the new law. There is no mention of HOW to measure the SBR/SBS OAL with a collapsible stock.

Section 4: Register as pistol if UNDER 26", but what if it is already registered as a pistol? There is no information regarding if a pistol "registered" in Michigan is always a Pistol in Michigan -regardless of length -once registered as a SBR with AFT/DOJ.

Section 5: So a SBS or SBR that is UNDER 26" in AOL WILL NOT require us to show proof of  federal registration if asked by a peace officer?

ESB 610
STATE OF MICHIGAN
97TH LEGISLATURE
REGULAR SESSION OF 2014
Introduced by Senators Green, Meekhof, Kowall, Pavlov, Colbeck and Robertson
ENROLLED SENATE BILL No.
610
AN ACT to amend 1931 PA 328, entitled “An act to revise, consolidate, codify, and add to the statutes relating to
crimes; to define crimes and prescribe the penalties and remedies; to provide for restitution under certain circumstances;
to provide for the competency of evidence at the trial of persons accused of crime; to provide immunity from prosecution
for certain witnesses appearing at criminal trials; to provide for liability for damages; and to repeal certain acts and
parts of acts inconsistent with or contravening any of the provisions of this act,” by amending section 224b (MCL
750.224b),
as amended by 2008 PA 196.
The People of the State of Michigan enact:

Sec. 224b. (1) A person shall not make, manufacture, transfer, or possess a short-barreled shotgun or a short-barreled
rifle.

(2) A person who violates subsection (1) is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years
or a fine of not more than $2,500.00, or both.

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to a short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle that is lawfully made,
manufactured, transferred, or possessed under federal law.

(4) A person, excluding a manufacturer, lawfully making, transferring, or possessing a short-barreled shotgun or
short-barreled rifle that is 26 inches or less in length under this section shall comply with section 2 or 2a of 1927 PA 372,
MCL 28.422 and 28.422a.

(5) A person who possesses a short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle that is greater than 26 inches in length
under this section shall possess a copy of the federal registration of that short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle
while transporting or using that short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle and shall present that federal registration
to a peace officer upon request by that peace officer.

(6) A person who violates subsection (5) is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more than
$100.00. A short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle carried in violation of subsection (5) is subject to immediate
seizure by a peace officer. If a peace officer seizes a short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle under this subsection,
the person has 45 days in which to display the federal registration to an authorized employee of the law enforcement
entity that employs the peace officer. If the person displays the federal registration to an authorized employee of the
law enforcement entity that employs the peace officer within the 45-day period, the authorized employee of that law
enforcement entity shall return the short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle to the person unless the person is
prohibited by law from possessing a firearm. If the person does not display the federal registration within the 45-day
period, the short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle is subject to seizure and forfeiture in the same manner that
property is subject to seizure and forfeiture under sections 4701 to 4709 of the revised judicature act of 1961, 1961
PA
236, MCL 600.4701 to 600.4709.

(7) Section 20 of chapter XVI of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 776.20, applies to subsection (3)[/quote]
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2013-2014/publicact/pdf/2014-PA-0063.pdf

To answer your question to section 4. It is my understand that if by putting a stock on your AR pistol puts the length of the gun over 26" it is not registered as a pistol as it meets no definition of a pistol. So yes you can make a pistol into a SBR over 26" and you'd no longer be able to conceal carry it,  it'd be treated like a normal AR rifle (minus the nfa registration and restrictions).

I have no idea on your other question,  but even if that was the case I'm not so sure I'd refuse registration of an nfa weapon to a cop

The new law legalizes SBR/SBS if federally approved.  It then divides the SBR/SBS world into: 1) federally approved 26 inch and under SBR/SBS's that must be registered as pistols under state law; and 2) over 26 inch federally approved SBR/SBSs that are not to be registered as pistols under state law, BUT will require a copy of the federal Form 1, 3, 4 paperwork to be produced upon request to a peace officer while transporting or using the firearm.  This second group of SBR/SBS are not eligible for concealed carry.

Also remember a Form 1 is used to Make an SBR/SBS and a Form 4 to transfer a previously made SBR/SBS.
If you have a pistol already licensed with the state and you want to make an SBR from it, use Form 1.
If you have a pistol already licensed with the state and you want to make an SBR from it for your trust, then the Form 1 to make is executed in the name of the trust.

How about a folding stock rifle that measures under 26" when folded but is still capable of firing?  I would assume it's a legal pistol in Michigan and can be carried.

So you're asking about a firearm with a folding stock that has a barrel length of 16"+, an unfolded OAL greater than 26", and a folded OAL less than 26"?

According to federal law, that firearm would be a rifle because it is measured in the fully extended configuration. Therefore, it would not be classified as an SBR.

However, MI measures in the shortest collapsed configuration and would classify that firearm as an SBR due to the folded length less than 26". I do not believe you can own such a weapon in MI since it would be classified as an SBR under MI law, but not according to the ATF.

I believe the only solution is to redefine how MI measures OAL to bring it in line with current federal regulations.

Couldn't it just be registered as a pistol, just like the 26"-30" rifles were?

No. Those rifles met the definition of a Michigan pistol, but were not an SBR federally.

The rifle you're asking about meets the definition of SBR for Michigan, but not federally due to the different techniques used for measuring. A firearm intended to be fired from the shoulder is a rifle, not a pistol, although Michigan still requires some rifles to be registered in the pistol database.

OK, I'm confused again...  

I have a Sig P556 with a 10"BBL registered as a pistol. OAL w/o a stock is 21".  

If I put a side folding stock on it the OAL will be less than 26" folded, but over 26" unfolded.  Does this make it a non-pistol now?  In Mich no, but in the eyes of the ATF, yes?

When I send the Form 1 in it asks OAL from reading this I gather I need to measure it unfolded?

Any issues with the ATF classifying it as a SBR, but MSP having it as a pistol?

Sorry about being dense, but I rather ask questions now and do it right, stakes are too high if you F up.

10 in bbl with a stock is an SBR.
10 in bbl with a stock when unextended/folded is 26 or less, is an SBR
10 in bbl with a stock when extended/unfolded more than 26, is an SBR

10 in bbl with a stock when unextended/folded is 26 or less, is an SBR and must be registered as a pistol in MI even if stock when extended/unfolded is more than 26.
10 in bbl with a fixed stock OAL 26 or less, is an SBR and must be registered as a pistol in MI
10 in bbl with a fixed stock OAL more than 26, is an SBR and is not a pistol in MI

Remember, the new law divides the SBR/SBS world into: 1) federally approved 26 inch and under SBR/SBS's that must be registered as pistols under state law; and 2) over 26 inch federally approved SBR/SBSs that are not to be registered as pistols under state law, BUT will require a copy of the federal Form 1, 3, 4 paperwork to be produced upon request to a peace officer while transporting or using the firearm. This second group of SBR/SBS are not eligible for concealed carry.

Federally, the OAL is measured in the extended configuration. Therefore, it would be a federal SBR only because of the 10" barrel since the federal OAL is more than 26".

Michigan measures OAL in the shortest configuration. Therefore, it's still a 'pistol' because the OAL folded will be under 26".

If you were to put an adjustable stock on rather than a folder, it could be different. If the shortest OAL with the adjustable stock was greater than 26", it would still be a federal SBR (due to 10" barrel), but it would no longer be able to be carried as a 'pistol' in MI due to the OAL being over 26".

Hope this lost and MichMan's post helped clear it up.

An AK 47 underfolder with 16" barrel is still illegal in Michigan due to it's total length of less than 26" with stock folded, right?
This is the way understand this new law.
If so, then this law is worthless piece of legislation that does not overturn Kelly's opinion, in other words fuck this law.

That is not the new law that is the old State law of pistol under 26", state law says you can't have a pistol with a stock.  Federal laws of NFA are different.  

 

What's the unfolded length?

If the unfolded length is greater than 26", that is a rifle by federal definitions. However, by state definitions, it would be an SBR due to the OAL being less than 26" when folded. Since the feds only view it as a rifle, they won't give you an SBR tax stamp so there's no way to legally own that weapon in MI.

In fact, there never was a way to legally own that weapon in MI. The old MI pistol definition would allow rifles that are between 26" and 30" OAL to be registered as a pistol. The new SBR law allows federally registered SBRs.

The only way to have that rifle legal in MI is to change how MI measures the OAL. They do need to do that, but it has never been brought up.

rjbergen & MichMan, Thanks for your help, I understand it now.  I've been over thinking it, the Sig w/ a folder is a SBR.  With a CCW, it can be carried concealed as a pistol here in Mich since the OAL when folded is less than 26".  I have no real desire to do that so for me, it's a moot point.

Thx again for the help!

With a 16" barrel?

Yes, with a 16" barrel and a folded OAL less than 26", it is an SBR in MI. Michigan measures OAL in the shortest, collapsed configuration. To be an SBR, it will have a barrel less than 16" and/or an OAL less than 26". You can have one or the other or both and it's an SBR.

You provide best information, thank you very much.
Recent firearms law changes actually benefit the anti-gun crowd.  Legislators were step ahead of gun owners and gave  nothing besides
applications, trusts, engravings, CLEO signatures, tax stamps, finger prints, photos, wait and the hassle.

Quoted:
Recent firearms law changes actually benefit the anti-gun crowd.  Legislators were step ahead of gun owners and gave  nothing besides
applications, trusts, engravings, CLEO signatures, tax stamps, finger prints, photos, wait and the hassle.



Well we could not have SBR/SBS before and we can now, and we can carry SBR/SBS 26 and under OAL as pistols concealed with a CPL.
If this benefits the anti-gun crowd then lets benefit them more.

What we still need is to get rid of the pistol registration.

This is from Michigan Sate Police Legal Update #106

MCL 750.222(k) defines a SBR as a rifle having one
or more barrels less than 16 inches in length or a
weapon made from a rifle, whether by alteration,
modification, or otherwise, if the weapon as modified
has an overall length of less than 26 inches.

Under the new amendment, MCL 750.224b(3) allows a
person to make, manufacture, transfer, or possess a
SBS or a SBR that is lawfully made, manufactured,
transferred, or possessed under federal law.

So, Michigan says it's an SBR and it's lawfully possessed under federal law as a rifle it should be legal as a registered pistol/SBR in Michigan.

I stand corrected in regards to the above post. I was not thinking of it in that way, but that's true. The folder with a 16" barrel and greater than 26" OAL unfolded is a legal federal rifle. While it's an SBR in MI, it is possessed legally according to federal law. No tax stamp or MI pistol registration would be required.

It would have to be registered if under 26". Over 26" would just be a rifle, SBR law or not.

Got an answer from MSP.

Mr. Davis,


In your e-mail, you ask whether a “a federally defined rifle with an OAL of less than 26" with stock folded or retracted and a barrel length over 26" be considered a Michigan SBR and require registration as a pistol.”  For purposes of my response, I assume your question contains a typo and you meant to say a barrel length over 16 inches and not 26 inches. A rifle with a barrel length 16 inches or greater and an overall length of less than 26 inches would qualify as a short-barreled rifle for purposes of MCL 750.224b and would require registration as a pistol in Michigan.  

Sincerely,
Lt. Aimee Maike
Legislative and Legal Resources Section
Office of the Director
Michigan State Police