Bed_Head Hip like jelly, 'cause jam don't shake like that. Team Member Joined: May 2006  NV, USA Posts: 18313 Feedback: 100% (2)

Posted: 7/30/2012 11:08:18 PM THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT I'll be up there soon with a group of youth from church, and I'm not sure what the laws are. It's my understanding that it's actually illegal in UT to carry in churches/businesses that have posted signs, whereas in NV you'd just get trespassed. Half the people in my church carry concealed, and don't think of it as a big deal. Can anyone clarify or point me in the right direction for finding the info online? Thanks!!

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TheTacticalCoyote I Aim To Misbehave Team Member Joined: Mar 2009  UT, USA Posts: 2176 Feedback: 100% (84) Link To This Post	Posted: 7/30/2012 11:12:20 PM You cannot carry on LDS church property.
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Bed_Head Hip like jelly, 'cause jam don't shake like that. Team Member Joined: May 2006  NV, USA Posts: 18315 Feedback: 100% (2) Link To This Post	Posted: 7/30/2012 11:25:08 PM Originally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: You cannot carry on LDS church property. Does that include the new mall downtown there too? I thought I'd heard it was church owned now. (Is it called City Center? I haven't been there for many years.... I think there was a ZCMI last time I made it to any malls in SLC)
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medicmandan Member Moderator Joined: Jun 2002  UT, USA Posts: 18720 Feedback: 100% (11) Link To This Post

Posted: 7/30/2012 11:27:13 PM [Last Edit: 7/30/2012 11:31:04 PM by medicmandan] Originally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: You cannot carry on LDS church property. I think it's a grey area. It comes down to how you or the LDS church define "house of worship". http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_053000.htm IM sterling18 he is a CCW instructor and has some other insights into the specifics of LDS church policy. House of worship: 76-10-501. Definitions. "House of worship" means a church, temple, synagogue, mosque, or other building set apart primarily for the purpose of worship in which religious services are held and the main body of which is kept for that use and not put to any other use inconsistent with its primary purpose.

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WesDesRat Member Joined: Oct 2001  UT, USA Posts: 4193 Feedback: 100% (10) Link To This Post

Posted: 7/30/2012 11:27:26 PM Originally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: You cannot carry on LDS church property. As per the church, having notified the state. I think a violation is still strictly a trespass citation/charge. As far as I can remember, there are not any "no guns" signs posted. But, IMHO concealed is concealed. What security I have seen there, is pretty lax. No metal detectors, etc... at least in the publicly accessible areas that I have seen. I know it's church property, but outside on the grounds is pretty much a public area. I really wish NV would recognize our permits... hint hint...

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medicmandan Member Moderator Joined: Jun 2002  UT, USA Posts: 18721 Feedback: 100% (11) Link To This Post

Posted: 7/30/2012 11:29:10 PM Originally Posted By Bed_Head: Originally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: You cannot carry on LDS church property. Does that include the new mall downtown there too? I thought I'd heard it was church owned now. (Is it called City Center? I haven't been there for many years.... I think there was a ZCMI last time I made it to any malls in SLC) I carry at City Creek. I don't think you could ever define it as a house of worship.

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Bed_Head Hip like jelly, 'cause jam don't shake like that. Team Member Joined: May 2006  NV, USA Posts: 18316 Feedback: 100% (2) Link To This Post

Posted: 7/30/2012 11:31:56 PM Originally Posted By WesDesRat: Originally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: You cannot carry on LDS church property. As per the church, having notified the state. I think a violation is still strictly a trespass citation/charge. As far as I can remember, there are not any "no guns" signs posted. But, IMHO concealed is concealed. What security I have seen there, is pretty lax. No metal detectors, etc... at least in the publicly accessible areas that I have seen. I know it's church property, but outside on the grounds is pretty much a public area. I really wish NV would recognize our permits... hint hint... I wish NV would too. Unfortunately, the way they wrote the CCW reciprocity law it states that the state being recognized has to have CCW requirements that meet or exceed NV's requirements. NV requires a shooting qual to get the permit, UT doesn't, so they say UT's requirements don't "meet or exceed" NV's. It's a load of crap, but it was a baby step. We didn't recognize anyone for many years.

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medicmandan Member Moderator Joined: Jun 2002  UT, USA Posts: 18722 Feedback: 100% (11) Link To This Post	Posted: 7/30/2012 11:32:16 PM A bit dated but I found this: http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/no-firearms-in-latter-day-saint-houses-of-worship
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Bed_Head Hip like jelly, 'cause jam don't shake like that. Team Member Joined: May 2006  NV, USA Posts: 18317 Feedback: 100% (2) Link To This Post

Posted: 7/30/2012 11:33:22 PM Originally Posted By medicmandan: Originally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: You cannot carry on LDS church property. I think it's a grey area. It comes down to how you or the LDS church define "house of worship". http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_053000.htm IM sterling18 he is a CCW instructor and has some other insights into the specifics of LDS church policy. House of worship: 76-10-501. Definitions. "House of worship" means a church, temple, synagogue, mosque, or other building set apart primarily for the purpose of worship in which religious services are held and the main body of which is kept for that use and not put to any other use inconsistent with its primary purpose. Hmmmm..... I wonder if that would include the church headquarters building. They may have metal detectors there though, and I wouldn't blame them.

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medicmandan Member Moderator Joined: Jun 2002  UT, USA Posts: 18723 Feedback: 100% (11) Link To This Post

Posted: 7/30/2012 11:35:36 PM [Last Edit: 7/30/2012 11:35:52 PM by medicmandan] Originally Posted By Bed_Head: Originally Posted By medicmandan: Originally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: You cannot carry on LDS church property. I think it's a grey area. It comes down to how you or the LDS church define "house of worship". http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_053000.htm IM sterling18 he is a CCW instructor and has some other insights into the specifics of LDS church policy. House of worship: 76-10-501. Definitions. "House of worship" means a church, temple, synagogue, mosque, or other building set apart primarily for the purpose of worship in which religious services are held and the main body of which is kept for that use and not put to any other use inconsistent with its primary purpose. Hmmmm..... I wonder if that would include the church headquarters building. They may have metal detectors there though, and I wouldn't blame them. There's a chapel somewhere in the building. Not sure if that extends an umbrella over the entire building or not. If you go there during the day, get the chili cheese fries from the cafeteria.

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Bed_Head Hip like jelly, 'cause jam don't shake like that. Team Member Joined: May 2006  NV, USA Posts: 18318 Feedback: 100% (2) Link To This Post	Posted: 7/30/2012 11:35:51 PM Originally Posted By medicmandan: A bit dated but I found this: http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/no-firearms-in-latter-day-saint-houses-of-worship Not having my CCW on me makes me worry MORE about the "cares of the world," but.... it is what it is.
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Bed_Head Hip like jelly, 'cause jam don't shake like that. Team Member Joined: May 2006  NV, USA Posts: 18319 Feedback: 100% (2) Link To This Post

Posted: 7/30/2012 11:37:39 PM [Last Edit: 7/30/2012 11:38:00 PM by Bed_Head] Originally Posted By medicmandan: Originally Posted By Bed_Head: Originally Posted By medicmandan: Originally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: You cannot carry on LDS church property. I think it's a grey area. It comes down to how you or the LDS church define "house of worship". http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_053000.htm IM sterling18 he is a CCW instructor and has some other insights into the specifics of LDS church policy. House of worship: 76-10-501. Definitions. "House of worship" means a church, temple, synagogue, mosque, or other building set apart primarily for the purpose of worship in which religious services are held and the main body of which is kept for that use and not put to any other use inconsistent with its primary purpose. Hmmmm..... I wonder if that would include the church headquarters building. They may have metal detectors there though, and I wouldn't blame them. There's a chapel somewhere in the building. Not sure if that extends an umbrella over the entire building or not. If you go there during the day, get the chili cheese fries from the cafeteria. Sounds like it's just a big hassle and I'll be better off not carrying at all. I hate that. Must be the boy scout in me. We'll be there late afternoon, and eating dinner at the Nauvoo Cafe.... wherever that is.

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Bed_Head Hip like jelly, 'cause jam don't shake like that. Team Member Joined: May 2006  NV, USA Posts: 18320 Feedback: 100% (2) Link To This Post	Posted: 7/30/2012 11:39:02 PM BTW, I really appreciate all the help, y'all!
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hartzpad Member Joined: Mar 2003  UT, USA Posts: 1605 Feedback: 100% (6) Link To This Post

Posted: 7/31/2012 8:10:51 PM Originally Posted By Bed_Head: Originally Posted By WesDesRat: Originally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: You cannot carry on LDS church property. As per the church, having notified the state. I think a violation is still strictly a trespass citation/charge. As far as I can remember, there are not any "no guns" signs posted. But, IMHO concealed is concealed. What security I have seen there, is pretty lax. No metal detectors, etc... at least in the publicly accessible areas that I have seen. I know it's church property, but outside on the grounds is pretty much a public area. I really wish NV would recognize our permits... hint hint... I wish NV would too. Unfortunately, the way they wrote the CCW reciprocity law it states that the state being recognized has to have CCW requirements that meet or exceed NV's requirements. NV requires a shooting qual to get the permit, UT doesn't, so they say UT's requirements don't "meet or exceed" NV's. It's a load of crap, but it was a baby step. We didn't recognize anyone for many years. Best thing to do is get an AZ permit. Costs $60 for 5 years, 1 page of paperwork and it gave me CCW access to NV, KS, and one other state that didn't recognize Utah's permit. AZ permit doesn't even require a picture and you never have to leave your home (except for the fingerprint cards).

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TheTacticalCoyote I Aim To Misbehave Team Member Joined: Mar 2009  UT, USA Posts: 2182 Feedback: 100% (84) Link To This Post

Posted: 7/31/2012 10:12:25 PM Originally Posted By hartzpad: Originally Posted By Bed_Head: Originally Posted By WesDesRat: Originally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: You cannot carry on LDS church property. As per the church, having notified the state. I think a violation is still strictly a trespass citation/charge. As far as I can remember, there are not any "no guns" signs posted. But, IMHO concealed is concealed. What security I have seen there, is pretty lax. No metal detectors, etc... at least in the publicly accessible areas that I have seen. I know it's church property, but outside on the grounds is pretty much a public area. I really wish NV would recognize our permits... hint hint... I wish NV would too. Unfortunately, the way they wrote the CCW reciprocity law it states that the state being recognized has to have CCW requirements that meet or exceed NV's requirements. NV requires a shooting qual to get the permit, UT doesn't, so they say UT's requirements don't "meet or exceed" NV's. It's a load of crap, but it was a baby step. We didn't recognize anyone for many years. Best thing to do is get an AZ permit. Costs $60 for 5 years, 1 page of paperwork and it gave me CCW access to NV, KS, and one other state that didn't recognize Utah's permit. AZ permit doesn't even require a picture and you never have to leave your home (except for the fingerprint cards). The other state is New Mexico.

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krayons Member Team Member Joined: May 2008  UT, USA Posts: 3014 Feedback: 100% (4) Link To This Post	Posted: 8/1/2012 12:03:31 AM [Last Edit: 8/1/2012 12:03:46 AM by krayons] Concealed means concealed imo
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retgarr Seller of God's shoes. Team Member Joined: Jul 2007  UT, USA Posts: 17780 Feedback: 100% (4) Link To This Post

Posted: 8/1/2012 12:32:41 AM Originally Posted By Bed_Head: Originally Posted By medicmandan: Originally Posted By Bed_Head: Originally Posted By medicmandan: Originally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: You cannot carry on LDS church property. I think it's a grey area. It comes down to how you or the LDS church define "house of worship". http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_053000.htm IM sterling18 he is a CCW instructor and has some other insights into the specifics of LDS church policy. House of worship: 76-10-501. Definitions. "House of worship" means a church, temple, synagogue, mosque, or other building set apart primarily for the purpose of worship in which religious services are held and the main body of which is kept for that use and not put to any other use inconsistent with its primary purpose. Hmmmm..... I wonder if that would include the church headquarters building. They may have metal detectors there though, and I wouldn't blame them. There's a chapel somewhere in the building. Not sure if that extends an umbrella over the entire building or not. If you go there during the day, get the chili cheese fries from the cafeteria. Sounds like it's just a big hassle and I'll be better off not carrying at all. I hate that. Must be the boy scout in me. We'll be there late afternoon, and eating dinner at the Nauvoo Cafe.... wherever that is. Not in Illinois.

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wspe1 Member Joined: Dec 2008  USA Posts: 1086 Feedback: 100% (3) Link To This Post	Posted: 8/1/2012 9:29:51 PM Originally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: You cannot carry on LDS church property. I think that depends upon each state.
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TheTacticalCoyote I Aim To Misbehave Team Member Joined: Mar 2009  UT, USA Posts: 2194 Feedback: 100% (84) Link To This Post	Posted: 8/1/2012 10:01:20 PM Originally Posted By wspe1: Originally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: You cannot carry on LDS church property. I think that depends upon each state. But in this context we are talking about Utah.
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Kevin_Jensen Member Joined: Jun 2009  UT, USA Posts: 329 Feedback: 100% (53) Link To This Post

Posted: 8/2/2012 5:16:12 PM I have carried openly at Temple Square before. Once in a thigh rig to see the Christmas lights, and another time in the restaurant, not sure of the name. I never entered the tabernacle, but I did tour the building where the large christus is on display. I was never approached, or asked to leave. This was in 2007 and 2008. I suspect now they would be more alert about open carry, but if you're concealed, who will know? Just stay out of places you believe to be "houses of worship". The definition in the Utah code is pretty clear, IMO.

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