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arrgr
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Posted: 8/17/2010 3:15:15 AM
Hi OR HTF,

I'm from Washington and will be visiting my family in OR. I have found a seller with a rifle that I'd like to purchase. Is the seller legally able to sell his rifle to me? Having it transferred to WA would result in sales tax and would make the rifle cost more than retail. I know that you can't sell handguns to non-residents, but thought longarms might be different. Would I be able to go through an OR FFL or are private sales to non-residents legal?

Thanks in advance
oregon-shooter
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Posted: 8/17/2010 10:17:32 PM
[Last Edit: 8/17/2010 10:18:04 PM by oregon-shooter]
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#gca-unlicensed-transfer

He can't sell you the gun because you are not a resident of his state. A dealer can sell you a rifle/shotgun but no handgun while you are in Oregon. The dealer can sell you the handgun and ship it to an FFL in your state though, IIRC.

That is how I understand it. I don't have my FFL book yet, so that is off memory of reading online at the link above.

PS> Do not listen to advise (such as what I just gave you) on forums... call ATF if you have a question or read their website... it is detailed with all the info you need to know.
Belial
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Posted: 8/17/2010 11:18:21 PM
You need to go to a OR FFL with both parties and make it happen to be legal...
oregon-shooter
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Posted: 8/18/2010 1:23:27 AM
[Last Edit: 8/18/2010 1:36:26 AM by oregon-shooter]
I wouldn't touch it if they did. Might be construed as a straw man purchase.

Can anyone confirm how this is done?

I'm assuming the FFL would "consign" the gun for the seller, checking it into his book then the buyer would buy it from the FFL who checks it out of his book and gives it to the out of stater (rifle/shotgun) and then take a consignment fee to cover the BG check and troubles.

Can't see anything illegal about it, just feels "hinky" to me.
Ridgeline001
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Posted: 8/18/2010 2:27:48 AM
An out of stater can purchase a long gun WITH a FFL transfer. You can not do a FTF and can not purchase a handgun.
Origanally posted by scottrh2
You are lucky to have a tight one. Most come like a new bride...............broken in and some slop.
oregon-shooter
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Posted: 8/18/2010 2:48:04 AM
Originally Posted By Ridgeline001:
An out of stater can purchase a long gun WITH a FFL transfer. You can not do a FTF and can not purchase a handgun.



Source?
Ridgeline001
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Posted: 8/18/2010 3:04:29 AM
[Last Edit: 8/18/2010 3:10:45 AM by Ridgeline001]
My co-worker recently found a pistol at a very popular sporting goods store off of Johnson Cr. Exit off I-205 in Clackamas, OR that he couldn't find in his resident state of Washington, and the salesman there refused to sell it to him outright because he was a non-resident. He instead offered to sell it to him but would ship it to an FFL dealer in Vancouver, WA where he could expect an additional fee. Is this true or is this possibly a store policy? If it is a state policy, would that include the sale to a law enforcement officer as well or just civilians? Thanks.

Federal law prohibits the sale of handguns to non residents. The only exception is when a person has a business in the state where the purchase is being made, and even then that happens rarely.
A dealer can sell a rifle to a person from another state under some circumstances, but handguns must ALWAYS be shipped to a dealer in the state in which the buyer lives.
There are some exceptions for law enforcement, but the gun in question must be intended for use in the cops work.

http://oregonfirearms.org/faq/

I also know this from having a friend who is a Idaho resident that I set up a deal for him to buy a rifle from an Nevada arfcomer and had the transfer go through the FFL in town here. He used his Idaho ID while in the state of OR to purchase a rifle from Nevada. Got approved.
Origanally posted by scottrh2
You are lucky to have a tight one. Most come like a new bride...............broken in and some slop.
GackMan
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Posted: 8/18/2010 3:16:16 AM
[Last Edit: 8/18/2010 3:20:10 AM by GackMan]
Originally Posted By oregon-shooter:
I wouldn't touch it if they did. Might be construed as a straw man purchase.

Can anyone confirm how this is done?

I'm assuming the FFL would "consign" the gun for the seller, checking it into his book then the buyer would buy it from the FFL who checks it out of his book and gives it to the out of stater (rifle/shotgun) and then take a consignment fee to cover the BG check and troubles.

Can't see anything illegal about it, just feels "hinky" to me.



The owner sells it to someone else through a dealer, the buyer fills out a 4477 and does a background check. Would the FFL be the strawman by legally selling a firearm in compliance with the law?

Think about it this way - it is just like the seller sent it to the dealer via UPS, then the buyer came and picked it up. But it all happens at the same time and it saves everyone some shipping costs.

I purchased a rifle from a guy like that at a gun show at the expo. We tried to do it with one of the blue forms - the quasi-4477 do it yourself form for private party transfers at gun shows (right after they closed that evil gun show loophole). The clerk at OSP laughed at us when the seller started reading her his Washingon DL. He neglected to mention that he was from Washington until then . So we went back inside, found a dealer to do the transfer and made it all nice and legal that way instead.

So yeah - it goes into the FFL book, and right back out. Buyer pays the BG fee plus whatever they settle on with the FFL. I think we found a guy to do it for $20. Easy Peasy.
smithc6
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Posted: 8/18/2010 11:26:54 AM
I thought it had to be an FFL from the buyers state...

When I sold one my ARs to a guy in WA, I had to go to an FFL in Vancouver.
Ridgeline001
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Posted: 8/18/2010 1:35:59 PM
Originally Posted By smithc6:
I thought it had to be an FFL from the buyers state...

When I sold one my ARs to a guy in WA, I had to go to an FFL in Vancouver.


That is true for a handgun (federal law). AND I have NO idea of any state laws, tax, etc. about WA. I can tell you for a fact........there are alot of FFL just like LEO that have misconceptions about the laws. I am no lawyer, but if I need info, I generally do not ask either. That is not a bash because there are plenty of both along with John Public that are very knowledgeable. And as usual, any info from me or anyone else on any site, I suggest you do your own research because I will do the same with info I get from you.
Origanally posted by scottrh2
You are lucky to have a tight one. Most come like a new bride...............broken in and some slop.
oregon-shooter
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Posted: 8/18/2010 6:52:57 PM
Originally Posted By GackMan:
Would the FFL be the strawman by legally selling a firearm in compliance with the law?


Nope, that's why I said... Can't see anything illegal about it, just feels "hinky" to me.

I guess the main purpose of not having a gun cross state lines without it being documented has been accomplished, just not use to thinking like an FFL yet. :)

Belial
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Posted: 8/18/2010 10:38:51 PM
[Last Edit: 8/18/2010 10:42:44 PM by Belial]
Originally Posted By oregon-shooter:
Originally Posted By Ridgeline001:
An out of stater can purchase a long gun WITH a FFL transfer. You can not do a FTF and can not purchase a handgun.



Source?


Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide has pretty much everything in a nutshell...

Simple questions like these are typcally on the ATF's FAQ section also...


Originally Posted By smithc6:
I thought it had to be an FFL from the buyers state...

When I sold one my ARs to a guy in WA, I had to go to an FFL in Vancouver.


There are no state laws that say you have to go to ones state or the other with long guns. Handguns have to go to the buyers state for transfer in OR and WA...



smithc6
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Posted: 8/19/2010 12:38:06 AM
Good to know thanks
coctailer
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Posted: 8/26/2010 12:31:36 AM
Originally Posted By Belial:
You need to go to a OR FFL with both parties and make it happen to be legal...


That is the fastest.

Or the seller can drop off the gun and the buyer can come later to pick it up if their schedules don't match.
Run with scissors!!!!
coctailer
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Posted: 8/26/2010 12:34:24 AM
[Last Edit: 8/26/2010 12:35:45 AM by coctailer]
Originally Posted By oregon-shooter:
I wouldn't touch it if they did. Might be construed as a straw man purchase.

Can anyone confirm how this is done?

I'm assuming the FFL would "consign" the gun for the seller, checking it into his book then the buyer would buy it from the FFL who checks it out of his book and gives it to the out of stater (rifle/shotgun) and then take a consignment fee to cover the BG check and troubles.

Can't see anything illegal about it, just feels "hinky" to me.


Totally normal.

FFL takes sellers info and logs item in, and then 4473 transfers it out to buyer. The fee charged is called a "Transfer fee" Do not confuse it with consignment fees. That is a whole other ball of wax.

You are confusing "Straw man" purchases of items already in the FFL inventory.

If it was a "Straw" purchase, they would just skip going to the FFL all together.
Run with scissors!!!!
oregon-shooter
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Posted: 8/26/2010 2:09:28 AM
[Last Edit: 8/26/2010 2:11:22 AM by oregon-shooter]
Yeah, I was just looking at it like this...

Guy wants to sell to another guy that he can't by law, but the FFL can give it to him as a transfer and the guy ends up driving across the border with his new handgun. If the FFL is removed, the dude is toast, but putting it into a book somehow makes it all OK?

Like I said before, if the only purpose of the law is to know that a handgun went across state lines, it makes sense. Why not require it on all guns then? Better yet, none.