The Elders and Deacons at my rather small (average 40ish in the sanctuary, plus 5-15 kids elsewhere in classes, on a Sunday) independent, non-denominational Church voted to put together an emergency preparedness program. They would like to encompass any and all types of emergencies in this preparation, including, but not limited to: fire, flood, tornado, medical, and active shooter. I suspect we can leave out nuclear, and bio hazard, for now, but anything else y'all can think of would be greatly appreciated. One of the Elders (jokingly) said, "what's the big deal? When someone yells DUCK!, we all hit the floor, and someone starts blasting away!" Another even older Elder, a retired APD cop, said, "yeah, but me and the wife would need a 5 minute notice, so we could have time to get down and get out of his line of fire...." It's mostly old folks that attend this church, so geriatric considerations are truly a requirement. Does anyone attend a church, that currently has in place, any written emergency preparedness policies, that my church could use as a starting point to create our own? (or even plagerize yours, with y'all's permission?) I'm not exectly sure where to start, and I suspect I'm going to be stuck right in the middle of creating these documents.

I've been a member there since 1988. This church is a few miles outside of town, out in the country, very visible, on a state highway, but only a couple of miles from an exit off I-20, that is about 60 miles from I-285. For some God forsaken reason, this area seems to have a magnetic pull on ne'er-do-wells traveling from, or to, ATL. This area really seems to attract them, as, over the years (20+), we've had a girl tied up, and tortured over several days, before being killed; a couple of autos abandoned and burned, one with a dead body included; and an instance, or two, of bodies just being dropped off; even an auto chase in the last month, that ended with an armed and dangerous perp on foot, that was never caught; all within a 2-5 mile radius of the church. Thankfully, nothing untoward has ever taken place at the church proper. ....yet. Nobody is overly concerned, for any articulable reason, but in this day and age, it's way better to be prepared, than to live with your head stuck in the stand. We have a relatively new, relatively young pastor, with a wife and two young children, who watches the news, and he simply would prefer us to be proactive.

Unfortunately, though I am honored and alarmed in equal measure, they have also requested me to be "the gun guy" for the church. One of the reasons they want me to carry in church is because I work the sound booth EVERY Sunday. I'm always in the back, right next to the entrance/exit of the sanctuary, keeping an eye on EVERYTHING, from sound, to video, to lighting, to the phone, all the while, overlooking the congregation, with a direct view of everybody, and everything. They voted yesterday to request of me, and approve for me, to carry concealed at the church. The approval is now part of the minutes from yesterday's board meeting, so I would assume that will suffice for "permission" to carry on the campus, and inside the buildings. I haven't had a permit for a number of years, so I got that started today. I am well aware that I am not legal to carry until I have the permit in my possession, and so I won't do so, until then. I have no type of LEO background whatsoever. My only meager qualification, is that I've been a "gun guy" for 45+ years. They will not require it, but I think it to be in my, and their, best interests for me to attend an active shooter type class, if I can find one to attend. Any suggestions there would be greatly appreciated. In the meantime, and for the forseeable future, I plan to spend a considerable amount of time at the "Angry Emu Range" out back of the house, with the firearm(s) of choice, to hone my slightly rusty skills, at varying distances.

Which brings up the choice of weapon(s). Having held an FFL for nearly 25 years, I do have a few to choose from. Concealed means concealed!!! I cannot/will not, be the yahoo in church walking around with a cannon on my hip!!!!! As a matter of fact, that I even have anything on me, will be on a "need to know basis," which will essentially be limited to the Elders, and possibly my wife. No need to freak out the members. I do not wear a jacket, so I'm kinda stuck with something way too small to suit me. I'm reluctantly leaning towards a Ruger LCP .380 in my pocket, (which I detest due to the mile-long trigger pull, and it being a marginal caliber with limited accuracy) simply because it's small, light, and no one need know it's there. I also have a PPKS (better trigger pull and more accuracy), but it's much larger, and I'm afraid it would "print" in the small of my back under a shirt, likewise, obviously, my Colt Officer's model.  If I do the LCP in my pocket, I would prefer to have something full-sized, in a quick access pistol safe, in the sound booth, that I would bring to church each Sunday, and carry home with me at the end of the service. I am not sure what caliber that weapon ought to be. I'm thinking .45 acp cuz it's big, and slow, not too likely to overpenetrate the perp (IMHO), and will be able to incapacitate in just a round or two. Though I could just as easily come up with a 5.7mm, or 9mm, or .40, or 10mm, or .38, or .357, or .44 Russian/Special/or Magnum, or .45 Long Colt, or.... well, you get my drift.  I'd LOVE some discussion on caliber and and ammo selection, cuz I don't want to end up killing the perp, AND the three old folks that are sitting behind him!!! I remember years ago that Glaser Safety Slugs were recommended for these type applications, any comments, or experiences? I'd prefer a round that expended ALL of it's CONSIDERABLE ft/lbs INSIDE the perp's chest cavity! There's nowhere to store a subgun, or rifle, so I'm limited to a handgun.

I never sought, nor desired, to become one of God's warrior/protectors, but it appears to have been thrust into my lap, mostly by default. If nothing else, please say a prayer or ten, that if/when I am ever needed to fulfill this role, the good Lord gives me superior judgement, a sharp eye, a steady hand, cool nerves, and guides my bullet to it's intended target, with NO collateral damage!!! However, any help, advice, comments, or discussion, about the written "plan," hardware, ammo, or tactics, are all welcome, and encouraged.

Thanks for reading to the end of this wall of text!

Dude.... You are in the sound booth! You have the high ground. Mount that tripod for the 1919 and be done with it!

That being said my brother is a youth pastor and he sent me a pdf that his church asked him to review for this exact situation...Just a much larger church. Let me see if I can find it

I still had the pdf but didn't know how to get it to you, so I googled the name of it and found it online

http://churchsecurityconsultant.com/?p=623

Disclaimer: this is not mine, I have no input on it, know nothing about the author, etc. Brothers church have it to him to review, that is all

They did something local recently. Might contact some  of the people involved and see what it was about.
http://www.wrdw.com/home/headlines/Millbrook-Baptist-Church-prepares-for-active-shooter-scenarios-318720441.html

As a "newly appointed member" of my church's security team this is relevant to my interests. I've been packing for years in my EDC backpack; then started carrying an LCP custom; and now I carry an LC9s PRO. I have a 30" waist and I kidney carry with minimal printing issues. I still have my SR40c in my pack "just in case". We have quite a few "gun nuts" in our congregation so if someone attempts something nefarious they are in for a world of hurt. I bookmarked the links above to read later as we still need to develop a contingency plan and make sure everyone is on the same page. Thanks for the info Jeep.

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Well you work the sound booth, why not just hit them with some feedback?

Something else you'll want to do is involve the local constabulary in your planning. They will need to know that their response may entail sorting your responders from the bad guys, and how best to do that. You'll want to know how they might plan to respond to your church.

We have the training officer for our local SO on our board of deacons. Our SO has done FoF training in our church. That benefits us in identifying weaknesses and them in knowing the layout and how it can make response more difficult. For instance, once the church hour starts, all doors are locked except the front glass doors. No sneaking in a back way. That means deputies arriving have only one guaranteed way in.

So far as your carry, seems like capacity is key, given that you could have multiple perps.  A 380 is unacceptably small and short-barreled.  9mm would be the minimum caliber, possibly ideal due to effectiveness balanced with capacity in a proper-sized gun.  Critical Defense is designed for your purpose, and could do well in a court case likely to come out of an altercation.  Since you are inside, you have wardrobe options to hide most anything you choose.  But 6 or 7 rounds is false security.  

For backup, 5.7 is too small and fast and would be prone to overpenetration, and .45 is unacceptably low capacity for a backup in a safe.  I also believe the superiority of .45 as a one-shot stopper is highly overstated.  Changing mags is not a good plan.  Again, 9mm could be the ideal balance, given full size mags of 15 or more.


Might think the Mormon Church could have some materials on this, given their penchant for preparedness.


Would want to have some training of the entire congregation as to how to verbally alert on suspicious activity.  A unified alarm word/phrase that gets everyone on the floor could be very valuable to minimize target size.  Could be done without a lot of scary verbiage, and applied to fire and other emergency alerts.

Thanks for all the comments and ideas so far!

Jeep, that's a GREAT link! Lots to absorb in that PDF! I'll check with them on the 1919, but I'm thinking I'll have a hard time getting that approved. Even if I did, I doubt I, or the church, could afford one....

j3, thanks for the link on Millbrook. I'll see if our church leaders are interested in pursuing something like this. They are just now getting their toes wet, I'm not certain if they're ready to dive in the deep end yet. I'll bet if we could find a seminar or two in the ATL area I could convince a couple of them to attend!

redgoat, I had not considered having some sort of pack, bag, satchel, etc., in which to keep a full sized weapon. Of course it would have to never leave my possession, but is definitely something I need to consider!

Mad-Machinist, that yaqui slide looks interesting. Unfortunately, my 2X shirts are getting slightly snug, so I'm thinking it would be advantageous to get some 3X's.... As for the subgun in a bag, well, I'm afraid they might think I was being a bit gung-ho if I showed up with one, BUT on the other hand, what a GREAT excuse to buy something I've always wanted!!!!

cssims, I know you jest, BUT really truly, that's not a bad idea! Hit the volume slide to the max as I draw, to create a distraction for the perp. I know it sounds kinda dumb, but it might just give the good guys the edge in a shooting scenario. Food for thought!

footrat, excellent advice! I had not thought about getting the SO involved, but if I'm holding a gun when they show, I'm fair game! Most of them know me by sight, but I wouldn't put it past some of them to figure I had "run amok" and take me out as a service to the community.  I will definitely speak with the SO, and provide them with a copy of our policy/plans/personnel, and any pertinent info they require.

slashsplat, as much as I'm not a big fan of 9mm, I think you have a valid point. For that matter, maybe a baby Glock as a carry gun, and a full sized Glock, with possibly 30 round mags for extended contact. Interchangeability of mags is a big plus with this setup. But DURN me if I don't just hate a GLOCK!!!! Yeah, I know, there's a lot to be said FOR a Glock, but I never was a fan of a striker fired weapon. However, I'm sure I can develop a less distasteful attitude if I decide to go this way. Another disadvantage to the .45 acp is that in the event of the inevitable lawsuits, it might look a little Rambo-esque in the eyes of the judge and jury. I hadn't thought about looking into the LDS church for insights, but if any church is up to snuff, it would be them. As for the code phrase, thank you very much sir! Excellent idea! I already know what it will be. The preacher will say, "Let's all get down on our knees to pray to our Lord." We don't ever do that in our church, so it would stick out like a sore thumb, and would give everyone the excuse to get on the floor in an orderly fashion, without arousing suspicion from the perp.

You guys are GREAT!!!! I'm sure we're just scratching the surface so far, so sound out with any additional ideas! I'll be posting anything I else I can find out pertaining to the subject!

THANKS!!!

Very good to have a plan.  ID your threat, vulnerabilities, ingress/egress, even route monitors.  The likelihood of a threat scenario should drive the extent that you have counter assets in place.  Like, a little ol' country church vs. downtown church.

It sounds silly, but we rehearse active shooter at my farm every year for our small hillbilly church.  No live crossfire, but rehearsal and walkthrough.  Mock up the sanctuary and sit where we normally do.  

Of course, we do this in conjunction with the annual shoot-m-up and BBQ that I host.  The big worry is that a visitor unfamiliar with the plan would let 'er rip if it came to it.

Sad that churches have to even worry about this, but, C'est la vie.

ETA:  I rarely tuck my shirt in at church anymore, allowing whatever carry.  If I do, an LCR goes in my boot with a Raven Vanguard.  But this being the Ozarks, many times we wear overalls to church (nice ones) and you could conceal a bazooka in a pair of overalls.  My best buddy is an usher and carries a Ruger Redhawk in .44 mag.

Sounds like y'all are ahead of the curve! I like that you actually practice your plan. A plan that is in place, but never rehearsed, is not much better than no plan at all!

Now that's my kind of usher!!! .44 mag for the win! (especially if you can line up several perps and get 'em with one shot! )

I do like Glocks a lot, but notice I did not mention a brand name.  Springfield makes some nice ones, too, as well as others.

The reality is that there may be no better brand than Glock for the purpose, given their ubiquity and absolute reliability.  Having RO'd the Glock shoot at River Bend for several years, I have seen AMAZING reliability from the brand, and that is in the hands of many people who think they come lubricated for life, never need cleaning, and will shoot ammo pressed from Armenian dog turds.  Striker be damned, they just shoot reliably, and with more accuracy than I can usually muster.  




That is, until I lost them all in a tragic boating accident.  The horror!

Get a bunch of these so the Popo doesn't shoot the good guys... Tell the congregation it stands for Converted Christ Worshipers.

I know we joke about these and the CCW badges, but something visible that the SO knows to look for might be just the thing. A road guard vest would work too, but be harder or bigger PITA to carry and remember.

LOL I do my best to stay away from those pesky boats too!

Yeah, I know you didn't *say* Glock, but they are a fine weapon, and I own at least several of them. I don't really like Fords either, but my wife drives one daily. Just 'cuz I'm not fond of something doesn't make it a POS. I need to dig thru my safes and see just exactly what I have. I know I have a full sized 9mm Glock or two (never could wrap my brain around their numbering system, and never liked them well enough to memorize it ) but I'm not sure I've got the baby one to match up with the 9mm. I do know I've got a baby and full sized .40, so if I have to, I may end up there. But I'll try to go with the 9mm's if I can. I've got a 9mm and .40 Springfield, full sized, but no baby ones to match up with them for mag compatibility. Hence my leaning toward the Glocks.

And yeah, we are in full agreement on the 1911 carry issue. Of late I have tended to carry a Para-Ordnance P10-45, in the shop and vehicle. It's slightly larger than a PPKS, but holds 10 rounds of .45 in a double stack mag. Unfortunately the sight radius is PPKSish, so the accuracy, while just fine out to about 10 yards, is marginal at a goodly distance. The reliability is fabulous, but for this purpose, I think I need something a bit more controllable, with a bit larger sight radius, also something a bit more "mainstream" as in a Glock 9mm or .40.

<sighs> May the devil shove political correctness up his.....where the sun don't shine!!!

We are definitely on the same page. <LOVES a 10mm and envies you your Delta Elite!!!>

I had not considered any type of easily ID-able wear. I need to put some thought into this. 99.999% I won't want to stick out like a sore thumb, but in an active shooter situation, with the Calvary en route, it's pretty near a necessity. Gotta put on my thinking cap for this one, cuz you are spot on about being identifiable as one of the good guys!!!! Thanks for pointing this out!

PFFFT, stop by on a Saturday?!? Surely you jest!!! I'm stuck behind those bars at the shop Mon-Sat from 10:30ish til 6:00. Then do the church thing from 8:30-12:30+ on Sundays. Spare time is non-existent!!!

One of these days, if I can ever scrape the funds together (no time soon) I'd love to talk to you about a 10mm, though a 9mm or a .40 using Glock mags, if possible, would probably be a bit more practical. For now, though, I don't need to be toting something like that into the church. If any of those old guys saw one of your fine creations there, they'd figure I'd lost it, was about to go on a Jihad, and call the cops on ME!!!  

Hopefully I can see some of your goodies at the Fall shoot!!!!  

I talked to a lawyer buddy of mine today, who happens to be helping his church to put together a preparedness plan right now too. Their church is pretty large, (150-200 on a Sunday) and is a member of the Southern Baptist Convention, so they have much greater resources than my church has. He has offered me a copy of what they put together to use as a template for my church. Their plan will have been reviewed, and approved, by their home office so it ought to be pretty jam up! If any of y'all are interested, I'll get his permission to pass along copies to use as templates for your churches. (Minus any identifying names, addresses, etc.) Either post in here, or IM me if you'd like a copy. No ETA as yet, but I'll get it out as soon as I get a copy.

We didn't get a chance to talk long. But one of their requirements to being a member of the security team, that he did mention, is that all team members must hit the range no less than once a month. I thought that was a pretty good requirement. I suspect we'll be incorporating that requirement into our plan at my church too. I'll be sure to post more when I get to pick his brain next.

Thanks again for all the GREAT ideas, keep 'em coming!!!

LOL That'd be me!

Looking forward to seeing you and your goodies at the fall shoot! I'll be saving my pennies, but don't hold your breath, they're kinda few and far between.....

Had a GREAT conversation at the shop today with 7mm-08, who is involved with his church security team, about active shooter plans, and preparations that they already have in place.

Thanks for all the info 7mm!!!!