And so did the CRO and the assistant CRO.
And the AP and 3-Gun ROs.

So it seems things can change, after all.  

still fudds...

I knew I could count on you!

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Are you special or will that privilege be expanded to others ?  The rules as posted today still say not allowed .They also say NO EXCEPTIONS .

Will be a privilege available to any member who demonstrates proficiency.

Oh, pistol caliber only for now.

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Pistol caliber only?  So, no machine guns, only submachine guns?

Who gets to decide what constitutes proficiency?

Who do we contact for a proficiency exam.

Rich

Correct, subguns only.

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The CRO and/or assistant CRO.

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Nice
Now how bout those action bays wasting away up there

A committee has been formed to ponder over what to do on that hill.

Thanks for your help with all the changes, I hope they ponder to fix it

Not a member? Good.

ETA: click!

"Was this a military demonstration? Aren't machine guns illegal?"

Civilians and especially rednecks and hillbillies can't possibly be allowed to possess them much less own them?!













Of course I am only kidding, but I am still amazed by how many law abiding gun carrying citizens believe that ALL machine guns are illegal with no way whatsoever to own one.

Hat tip to CMSHOOT for posting exactly what I was thinking - machine guns fire Rifle/heavy calibers

By the way, approximately how many people that go through all the hoops and paperwork to own a Class III weapon are NOT proficient with firearms?! I know there are probably one or two idiots that found out they could buy a machine gun so that is what they did for their first firearm, but I would be willing to bet that they are few and far between. Now granted I have seen my fair share of holes in the ceiling at indoor ranges that allow Class III, but almost all of those holes are from people the Class III owner allowed to fire their weapon while at the range, and not from the firearm owner.

Huh.

I've never been there, but River Bend seemed liked it would be a good place to get away and be around people with similar interests, without having to deal with the idiots at public ranges.  However, the blanket prohibition on MGs, even suppressed, always turned me off.

If change is afoot, maybe I should try to meet a few members....

-bob

They are ultra-paranoid, with reason, about shots leaving the range, and the range getting sued and having to shut down.  

Your dedication, perseverance, and commitment  have paid off!  Too many on here like to criticize the club, you took on a big challenge and made it better for everyone.  Great job!

Suppressors have been legal at RBGC for some time now.  

We also allow folks to shoot semi-auto rifles fast now...though, just like the MGs and superguns, there is a proficiency test.
Some will balk at this, but for me I think it is more than reasonable.  I have never given anyone my trust who hasn't earned it, and would not expect anyone to trust me whose I haven't earned.

I guess we are about to find out!
Based on my experience (machinegun shoots, knob creek, and southeaster regional subgun matches) more than I would have thought.  

I actually gave up shooting at one of the redhill MG shoots in order to police our end of the line.
I have been muzzled twice by jammed and still hot NFA weapons at Knob.

But you make a good point as I have been in far more dangerous moments before I gave up frequenting public ranges.
I am going to an indoor range tomorrow night to help out a lady I work with whose husband appears to be an impatient teacher...but I will not be comfortable til I am back in my car.

But back to NFA, folks seem to buy them and then treat them like plain ole semi-autos, and they're not.  Particularly the open-bolt guns need an adjustment about what constitutes safe condition.  The faster subguns will run away even on a big shooter who isn't heads up on them.

We won't have issues with owners letting guests or kids shoot their NFA weapons because that is specifically against the rules.  How will we know?  Well for the foreseeable future anyone shooting NFA at RBGC will need to have passed the proficiency course and will need to have an approved NFA RO present to operate their NFA weapons in automatic mode.

I will admit to be long-involved in this issue.  But I would be completely WRONG to take credit for this.  The current RBGC board is simply getting it done.  It's a gun club.  We build ranges, and have members who shoot their guns.  If you're a member, and you like (or for that matter DON'T like) where we are going, you come to a board meeting and tell us about it!

At some point we will be out of space for more ranges, I can't wait to see what fun stuff the club does for members at that point.

That's not what I meant.  I was referring to suppressed MGs in the event the noise was an issue.

As an MG owner for about 15 years now, I'm past the "jam in a mag and hold the trigger down 'till it's empty" stage.  Everything I shoot in FA is controlled bursts.  For semi-auto, the "pull the trigger as fast as you can, mall ninja style" methodology irritates me.  If I just want to make noise there are cheaper ways to do it.

-bob

He was a member there at one point I believe

I look forward to approving your application.

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Were rounds from the action complex escaping or were rounds from another range finding their way onto the action complex bays?

It was rounds from the action range buzzing the guys in the pits on the High power range, if I remember correctly

It takes absolutely zero firearm operational knowledge or skill to buy a NFA or any other firearm. Just money and a clean record.
Owning a 100 differrent guns does not mean you are an expert with any one of them.
Most people who own a lot of guns are not proficient.
I have instructors in class all the time tell me "I have 20 years experience with firearms"
What I see is the have 2 hours wortfh of experience 100 times.
There is a big difference
Scott
www.cemnterfiretraining.com

Oh trust me, they know that Marc.



For the better part of 15 years from 92 on I was a member that was all-in, contributing as much as possible to activities there. Hell I even cut the damn grass for years on some of the ranges. It wasn't until they told me I couldn't shoot with my kids using a suppressor because "they couldn't hear me shooting too fast" and that suppressors and "those kind of guns" gave RBGC the wrong kind of image that I voted with my wallet. I found it very interesting that despite 100 signatures on a petition I put together (including life members and 1 <then> board member) the no-can rule was passed without further comment at a meeting. Ironically that same meeting saw the passage of an allowance for alcohol consumption on club property up on  shotgun hill. Of course this was phrased to include the admonition that any drinking of a gentleman's port brandy should be after shooting one's high brow skeet guns etc. Yeah, try and reconcile THAT crazy shit.



It was at that point that I and many others realized just how entrenched the Fudds were that were in control and frankly I don't see that much has changed (just yet). It's my hope to be proven wrong but the Fudd culture is so steeped and goes so far back that unless we're very discerning, we'll suffer from infighting and tyranny from our own so called gun-culture ranks.



I (and several others) then leased 100 acres of adjacent property bordering the club for belt-fed and other C3 use until we lost it to an entity that bid 10x our lease rate when it came up for renewal 5 years later. Wanna guess who did that? Yeah.



How many "Zumbo" like incidents have come to light over the last 10 years or so? How many slips of the lip have shown that we have die-hard elitist Fudds amongst our ranks hiding their feelings and working quietly to push their agendas against the black rifle crowd instead of working with us?



Really and truly if there is change in the air there then I applaud it but it'll take massive shifts in culture to prove to me that the Fudd undercurrent has been swept out once and for all.





       




 

From looking at the posted rules the rule requiring you to show some random range nazi papers is a tax code violation and while not prosecuted . 18 USC 6103  It is a federal felony. Tax information which a form 4 is, is protected .

Thank you Scott.

I suppose we could make an allowance for anyone actually concerned about that, provided that member could acquire sufficient documentation from BATFE they WOULD be OK with providing to RBGC officers to prove ownership of their legal NFA weapon. I doubt the board would have a problem with that.

Next nit please.

My feeling is that the RO's operate under the presumption that a rules violation exists in all situations, until proven otherwise. It's a private club, and members should be treated as members of a private club, not treated worse than you get treated at local indoor ranges.



I love the club, and I try to be an active member, but there's still a broad divide between the two subgroups of members. I'm glad to see rules continue to loosen up, and hope they continue to do so. Thanks for posting here Stimp.

I completely understand.  The club has done strange stuff.  
6 second rule is gone.
Cans are OK.
Now subguns.

We also changed the rules to allow former members to join without having To pay the full buy in again, if you ever see enough good reasons to rejoin.

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Thats what i like about pickins.
Supressors, subguns and no stupid 6 second rules to deal with !

You know Bruce, that was quite possibly the most awesome reply you could have made and it made me feel genuinely welcome.



I may very well reconsider given the circumstances.



Thank you.
 

Again...none of these are forbidden at RBGC anymore.

Your probably right but,
I just assume shoot at pickins its cheaper and less drama.

You know I will give you credit for making improvements . I remember the six second rule and the suppressor rule being about as retarded as anything I have ever read .

I'm not really looking for credit...but the things that folks have disliked about the club for ages are steadily being fixed, and I just want folks to know that.

The club is a non-profit entity, so we can't 'make money', but that doesn't mean we can't make more, and happier, members.

If he doesn't use his buy in can he transfer it to me?  

Btw that reply defused an apparently emotional charged wound.... well done!

Made my week.

Peace, brother.

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One shot every six seconds.

 

I completely understand.  The club has done strange stuff.  
6 second rule is gone.
Cans are OK.
Now subguns.

We also changed the rules to allow former members to join without having To pay the full buy in again, if you ever see enough good reasons to rejoin.


You know Bruce, that was quite possibly the most awesome reply you could have made and it made me feel genuinely welcome.

I may very well reconsider given the circumstances.

Thank you.



Postal, these are the exact reasons why I voted with my wallet in '06. While working in the industry, I had several opportunities to voice my concerns to board members.

I would always tell them, the day RB allows suppressors, I will re-join. I'm now a member again, and took advantage of the reinstatement rule.

Since then, I have always brought at least one suppressor, and not once have I been asked to show my papers.

I hope you re-consider, and give them another shot as I have.

Rich

Oh yes, the really wonky thing was it was only for rifles, as it only existed in the rifle range rules.  So you could shoot fast on the pistol bays.  It came into being as a weird allowance for practicing highpower sitting and prone rapids.  And yes, it was rigidly enforced by some.

We recently took an axe to the rule book.