ARCHIVED
 wtturn
Team USA
Team Member
Joined: Dec 2008  GA, USA
 Posts: 4732 Feedback: 100% (44) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/10/2012 11:51:20 AM
OP, in GA there exists an assumption that the carry is lawful.
"Papers please" is not legal in Georgia due to this assumption.
This was a bad stop, and unlawful detainment. |
|
|
feeling_infringed
Member
Team Member
Joined: Oct 2008 GA, USA
Posts: 1490 Feedback: 100% (1) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/10/2012 11:56:34 AM
[Last Edit: 8/10/2012 1:01:12 PM by feeling_infringed]
Join GCO (if not already a member), contact them and see if they are interested in sending a letter citing appropriate laws. The next county South, Glynn County, in Brunswick, GA has a history of this type of activity. Here's a link to GCO's letter to the Chief of Police.
http://www.georgiacarry.org/cms/2008/06/10/gco-asks-glynn-county-pd-to-stop-hassling-lawful-carriers/ Whose responsibility is it to train officers on the law, updates on laws etc...? eta: I'd say your stop ending extremely well considering how this guys turned out. (I knew Glynn County/Brunswick sounded familiar) Upon sight of pistol in vehicle: 1st officer points gun at drivers head/ upper torso, "get out of the car, right now. Step out of the car or I'll shoot ya'........ I'll blow your f*&^ing head off, you just step out of the car...." 2nd officer, ".... you are suppose to notify this officer that you have this pistol" Personally, I think the actions of those officers are inexcusable. I also think that the driver could have simply put the pistol in a glove box/ console and this entire incident *may* have been avoided. |
|
|
fcs2178
Member
Team Member
Joined: Oct 2005 GA, USA
Posts: 1659 Feedback: 96% (26) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/10/2012 11:58:20 AM
I teach this very class at the academy and to other officers from various agencies. I can tell you that mere posession of a weapon doesnt not constitute enough ARS to stop and interview. At best he had a Tier I encounter at the gas station, and definiltely not enough for a Tier II traffic stop. Definitely a lot of retraining, education is necessary....glad it turned out well for you.
|
|
|
|
mattellis2
Member
Team Member
Joined: Sep 2005 GA, USA
Posts: 5888 Feedback: 100% (37) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/10/2012 12:32:40 PM
Originally Posted By feeling_infringed:
Join GCO (if not already a member), contact them and see if they are interested in sending a letter citing appropriate laws. The next county South, Glynn County, in Brunswick, GA has a history of this type of activity. Here's a link to GCO's letter to the Chief of Police. http://www.georgiacarry.org/cms/2008/06/10/gco-asks-glynn-county-pd-to-stop-hassling-lawful-carriers/ Whose responsibility is it to train officers on the law, updates on laws etc...? eta: I'd say your stop ending extremely well considering how this guys turned out. (I knew Glynn County/Brunswick sounded familiar) Upon site of pistol in vehicle: 1st officer points gun at drivers head/ upper torso, "get out of the car, right now. Step out of the car or I'll shoot ya'........ I'll blow your f*&^ing head off, you just step out of the car...." 2nd officer, ".... you are suppose to notify this officer that you have this pistol"  http://youtu.be/5S1rMA-K5WU
Personally, I think the actions of those officers are inexcusable. I also think that the driver could have simply put the pistol in a glove box/ console and this entire incident *may* have been avoided. What happen to those Barney Fifes? |
|
|
|
MIDGAPATRIOT
END THE FED!!!!!!!
Team Member
Joined: Apr 2008 GA, USA
Posts: 6610 Feedback: 100% (30) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/10/2012 12:38:59 PM
Originally Posted By wtturn:
OP, in GA there exists an assumption that the carry is lawful. "Papers please" is not legal in Georgia due to this assumption. This was a bad stop, and unlawful detainment. This needs to be said again. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/10/2012 12:45:25 PM
Originally Posted By ROTAM:
Originally Posted By treedawg:
If you are serious you need to get a court order to secure any recording from the LEO dash cam before they are erased or destroyed. I have no idea how long they are required to maintain the recordings so the sooner the better. td The law doesn't require them to even make recordings. Most small agencies dont even have cameras in their cars (that work). Department policy may determine how long they keep them, but policies vary by department. Perhaps it doesnt' matter since on my video the deputy admits that he stopped me b/c of him "seeing" my gun in the gas station. Is that recording admissible since I didn't tell him I was making it? Shouldn't matter I guess b/c execution of a public duty is not really expectation of privacy territory... |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/10/2012 12:50:59 PM
[Last Edit: 8/10/2012 12:58:49 PM by DHolidayWithAnAR]
Originally Posted By feeling_infringed:
Join GCO (if not already a member), contact them and see if they are interested in sending a letter citing appropriate laws. The next county South, Glynn County, in Brunswick, GA has a history of this type of activity. Here's a link to GCO's letter to the Chief of Police. http://www.georgiacarry.org/cms/2008/06/10/gco-asks-glynn-county-pd-to-stop-hassling-lawful-carriers/ Whose responsibility is it to train officers on the law, updates on laws etc...? eta: I'd say your stop ending extremely well considering how this guys turned out. (I knew Glynn County/Brunswick sounded familiar) Upon site of pistol in vehicle: 1st officer points gun at drivers head/ upper torso, "get out of the car, right now. Step out of the car or I'll shoot ya'........ I'll blow your f*&^ing head off, you just step out of the car...." 2nd officer, ".... you are suppose to notify this officer that you have this pistol" http://youtu.be/5S1rMA-K5WU
Personally, I think the actions of those officers are inexcusable. I also think that the driver could have simply put the pistol in a glove box/ console and this entire incident *may* have been avoided. While I can see what you are saying, this is after all a discussion about how his rights are already being violated. I dont think, EVER sincerely, that it should be my obligation to go out of my way to avoid a confrontation from a dickhead that never shoulda pulled a gun on me. Sorry, not puttin my personal defense weapon further out of reach because some dumbass with a badge(and oviously the powers of all that be backing his big ass up)thinks hes super cop for spotting my perfectly legal firearm INSIDE MY PERSONAL VEHICLE. I know many LEOs on a personal level, and I do understand it can get a bit crazy/scary out there, but seriously people if a guy is going to use the weapon on an LEO it prolly aint gonna be layin there for him to see, and its prolly gonna happen while the LEO doesnt see it comin at all. Most I know will tell ya if you see it, it prolly aint what you need to watch for. Makes me sick to hear people talk about "maybe we should just avoid it by doing what they want instead of what we know is right", just my honest opinion that that attitude is whats caused all this confusion to begin in the first place. Mini rant complete, ty. |
|
|
|
treedawg
Member
Team Member
Joined: Jun 2003 GA, USA
Posts: 4606 Feedback: 100% (5) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/10/2012 12:55:03 PM
Originally Posted By ROTAM:
Originally Posted By treedawg:
If you are serious you need to get a court order to secure any recording from the LEO dash cam before they are erased or destroyed. I have no idea how long they are required to maintain the recordings so the sooner the better. td The law doesn't require them to even make recordings. Most small agencies dont even have cameras in their cars (that work). Department policy may determine how long they keep them, but policies vary by department. I'm certainly not an expert on the subject and this was only a suggestion. td |
|
|
|
makeitflyfaster
Member
Team Member
Joined: Jul 2012 GA, USA
Posts: 9 Feedback: 0% (0) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/10/2012 2:46:55 PM
I have run into several LEO while OC here in GA. Just last night I stopped and bought a 12 pack of miller at the gas station and I turned around and made eye contact with the GSP (Georgia State Patrol) that was standing right behind me. He looks at me, then down at my pistol, and then at the 12 pack lol. I thought for sure there was going to be a situation where I was going to be asked for my permit. I never was and I just walked away into my truck and drove away.
My thing is as long as your paints are all the way on your ass and hat is on straight not looking like a fool, you should be fine. Although, would it not constitute a self-defense situation if you were lawfully OC or CC and had an LEO draw there weapon on you????? Opinions please... |
|
|
|
wtturn
Team USA
Team Member
Joined: Dec 2008 GA, USA
Posts: 4734 Feedback: 100% (44) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/10/2012 3:10:11 PM
Originally Posted By rightwingnut:
Originally Posted By ROTAM:
Originally Posted By treedawg:
If you are serious you need to get a court order to secure any recording from the LEO dash cam before they are erased or destroyed. I have no idea how long they are required to maintain the recordings so the sooner the better. td The law doesn't require them to even make recordings. Most small agencies dont even have cameras in their cars (that work). Department policy may determine how long they keep them, but policies vary by department. Perhaps it doesnt' matter since on my video the deputy admits that he stopped me b/c of him "seeing" my gun in the gas station. Is that recording admissible since I didn't tell him I was making it? Shouldn't matter I guess b/c execution of a public duty is not really expectation of privacy territory... Georgia requires only one party consent/knowledge of recordings. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
|
dryvalleyboy
Member
Team Member
Joined: May 2006 GA, USA
Posts: 563 Feedback: 0% (0) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/10/2012 3:12:30 PM
Originally Posted By makeitflyfaster:
I have run into several LEO while OC here in GA. Just last night I stopped and bought a 12 pack of miller at the gas station and I turned around and made eye contact with the GSP (Georgia State Patrol) that was standing right behind me. He looks at me, then down at my pistol, and then at the 12 pack lol. I thought for sure there was going to be a situation where I was going to be asked for my permit. I never was and I just walked away into my truck and drove away. My thing is as long as your paints are all the way on your ass and hat is on straight not looking like a fool, you should be fine. Although, would it not constitute a self-defense situation if you were lawfully OC or CC and had an LEO draw there weapon on you????? Opinions please... My opinion is if in that situation you made any move other than exactly what you were being told,you would be shot if you tried to escalate to a "self defense" option.You'd also qualify for a Darwin nomination. |
|
|
|
wtturn
Team USA
Team Member
Joined: Dec 2008 GA, USA
Posts: 4735 Feedback: 100% (44) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/10/2012 3:53:19 PM
Originally Posted By makeitflyfaster: I have run into several LEO while OC here in GA. Just last night I stopped and bought a 12 pack of miller at the gas station and I turned around and made eye contact with the GSP (Georgia State Patrol) that was standing right behind me. He looks at me, then down at my pistol, and then at the 12 pack lol. I thought for sure there was going to be a situation where I was going to be asked for my permit. I never was and I just walked away into my truck and drove away. My thing is as long as your paints are all the way on your ass and hat is on straight not looking like a fool, you should be fine. Although, would it not constitute a self-defense situation if you were lawfully OC or CC and had an LEO draw there weapon on you????? Opinions please... My opinion? "Self defense" against an on-duty LEO may work in theory, but not in practice. You'd be screwed any way that one turned out. A. You shoot LEO. You get arrested. You bond out but have to get rid of your guns due to bond conditions. You may win at trial, but probably not, because regardless of the technicalities of the law, you shot a cop, for Pete's sake; only a deranged gun nut vigilante would shoot a cop. You get sent to prison.
B. You shoot LEO. He shoots back. You die. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/10/2012 4:31:10 PM
Originally Posted By wtturn:
Originally Posted By makeitflyfaster:
I have run into several LEO while OC here in GA. Just last night I stopped and bought a 12 pack of miller at the gas station and I turned around and made eye contact with the GSP (Georgia State Patrol) that was standing right behind me. He looks at me, then down at my pistol, and then at the 12 pack lol. I thought for sure there was going to be a situation where I was going to be asked for my permit. I never was and I just walked away into my truck and drove away. My thing is as long as your paints are all the way on your ass and hat is on straight not looking like a fool, you should be fine. Although, would it not constitute a self-defense situation if you were lawfully OC or CC and had an LEO draw there weapon on you????? Opinions please... My opinion? "Self defense" against an on-duty LEO may work in theory, but not in practice. You'd be screwed any way that one turned out. A. You shoot LEO. You get arrested. You bond out but have to get rid of your guns due to bond conditions. You may win at trial, but probably not, because regardless of the technicalities of the law, you shot a cop, for Pete's sake; only a deranged gun nut vigilante would shoot a cop. You get sent to prison. B. You shoot LEO. He shoots back. You die. I agree with your statement. It MAY constitute self defense. The problem is that the person being stopped does not know what the officer knows at that moment. Though the person being stopped thinks the stop is unlawful, it may not be and if the court later rules that the stop was lawful, too late. Once the shooting starts, there is no going back. It is better to sue later than to start a shootout. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/10/2012 4:34:56 PM
Originally Posted By feeling_infringed:
Join GCO (if not already a member), contact them and see if they are interested in sending a letter citing appropriate laws. The next county South, Glynn County, in Brunswick, GA has a history of this type of activity. Here's a link to GCO's letter to the Chief of Police. http://www.georgiacarry.org/cms/2008/06/10/gco-asks-glynn-county-pd-to-stop-hassling-lawful-carriers/ Whose responsibility is it to train officers on the law, updates on laws etc...? eta: I'd say your stop ending extremely well considering how this guys turned out. (I knew Glynn County/Brunswick sounded familiar) Upon sight of pistol in vehicle: 1st officer points gun at drivers head/ upper torso, "get out of the car, right now. Step out of the car or I'll shoot ya'........ I'll blow your f*&^ing head off, you just step out of the car...." 2nd officer, ".... you are suppose to notify this officer that you have this pistol" http://youtu.be/5S1rMA-K5WU
Personally, I think the actions of those officers are inexcusable. I also think that the driver could have simply put the pistol in a glove box/ console and this entire incident *may* have been avoided. I heard about this video. Glad you posted it. Their actions were as bad as I heard after all. I think they received training after this incident, which is unfortunate that they didn't receive it before this encounter. In fact, they may have been sued. Don't remember exactly. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/10/2012 4:37:01 PM
Originally Posted By treedawg:
Originally Posted By ROTAM:
Originally Posted By treedawg:
If you are serious you need to get a court order to secure any recording from the LEO dash cam before they are erased or destroyed. I have no idea how long they are required to maintain the recordings so the sooner the better. td The law doesn't require them to even make recordings. Most small agencies dont even have cameras in their cars (that work). Department policy may determine how long they keep them, but policies vary by department. I'm certainly not an expert on the subject and this was only a suggestion. td Wasn't trying to disagree with you, just add info to help the OP. |
|
|
|
speedfreak955
Rented Mule
Team Member
Joined: Dec 2004 USA
Posts: 4565 Feedback: 100% (6) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/10/2012 7:11:39 PM
[Last Edit: 8/10/2012 7:13:51 PM by speedfreak955]
Double
 |
|
|
speedfreak955
Rented Mule
Team Member
Joined: Dec 2004 USA
Posts: 4566 Feedback: 100% (6) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/10/2012 7:13:22 PM
I was printing like a mofo today when I held the door for the Loomis guy at the Racetrac on my way home and I let the "Southern Security" guy go ahead of me in line since he wasn't paying attention..
No guns drawn, No blade at the 45 degrees.. Guess that hippie hair throws them off  I miss all the fun
ETA: Out of state.. you got rode like a... Well Look under my screen name 
|
|
|
semperfiws6
Member
Team Member
Joined: May 2008 GA, USA
Posts: 3699 Feedback: 100% (204) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/10/2012 9:37:22 PM
This is part of the reason I will continue to drive with my AR in the gun rack in my pickup. People, including other gun owners and cops treat guns as taboo. Especial "evil" ones. We all need to let people know that we have guns and that it is just a part of life.
The media and leftists are winning the fight in case you didnt notice. I will continue to state this point to everyone I can if it comes up. The Cop was wrong, legal or not (it was not). Period. I am glad to live in a county where most LEO's are very professional and do not treat people like they are beneath them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/10/2012 9:57:44 PM
Originally Posted By semperfiws6:
This is part of the reason I will continue to drive with my AR in the gun rack in my pickup. People, including other gun owners and cops treat guns as taboo. Especial "evil" ones. We all need to let people know that we have guns and that it is just a part of life. The media and leftists are winning the fight in case you didnt notice. I will continue to state this point to everyone I can if it comes up. The Cop was wrong, legal or not (it was not). Period. I am glad to live in a county where most LEO's are very professional and do not treat people like they are beneath them. How can the cop be wrong legal or not? If it's legal, he's right. If it's not, he's wrong. |
|
|
|
semperfiws6
Member
Team Member
Joined: May 2008 GA, USA
Posts: 3700 Feedback: 100% (204) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/10/2012 10:33:20 PM
Originally Posted By ROTAM:
Originally Posted By semperfiws6:
This is part of the reason I will continue to drive with my AR in the gun rack in my pickup. People, including other gun owners and cops treat guns as taboo. Especial "evil" ones. We all need to let people know that we have guns and that it is just a part of life. The media and leftists are winning the fight in case you didnt notice. I will continue to state this point to everyone I can if it comes up. The Cop was wrong, legal or not (it was not). Period. I am glad to live in a county where most LEO's are very professional and do not treat people like they are beneath them. How can the cop be wrong legal or not? If it's legal, he's right. If it's not, he's wrong. Just because something is legal, does not make it constitutional. If it is not constitutional, it is not right in my eyes. If it was legal for a Cop to stop someone just because they were carrying a gun, it would infringe on the 2nd Amendment just like the rest of the laws currently do, and in my eyes are wrong. "...shall not be infringed." |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/11/2012 2:37:17 AM
One still working for the agency, the other run off.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/11/2012 2:40:48 AM
OP, if you don't mind, IM me. I work in the next jurisdiction south.
|
|
ARCHIVED
