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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Gas Piston vs Direct Impingement (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 6/6/2011 1:39:33 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
yea but it was at 400 yards. so it would only be ~2" at 100 yards so really it's only 2x the MOBC rating right?

Thats why I included the word "almost".

For educational purposes.....a minute of angle at 100 yards equates to 4" at 400 yards. So a 10" plate would be 2.5moa larger than the 4" a beer cap(roughly an inch) would represent at 400 yards. Which in term is "almost" 3 inches.

I was just messing with you.....

BTW I just found VFR bottle cap he was shooting at! apparently he sent it to Newark!
http://blog.nj.com/ledgerupdates_impact/2009/05/large_Pabst%20blue%20ribbon%20bottle%20cap.JPG

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/05/pabst_blue_ribbon_bottle_resur.html

so knowing this, bookhound the challenge is accepted!

Funny! I was just looking for the same thing!

I'll do it if I can shoot at these...

http://www.brewrealbeer.com/images/bottlecaps.jpg

http://architector.in/_cache/Corbels/img/coke_signs_2.jpg

if you shot at those, would you still be able to hit the one you was aiming for?
I know I can't. not @100 anyways. Unless you told me it was @ a 100 yrds.

Posted: 6/6/2011 6:22:07 PM EDT

[#2]

I try to stay out of the stupid crap on this forum, but I will wade in on this one. First, Vote is a friend and customer of mine. No conflict of interest here, I had nothing to do with the rifle or ammo used. Who elected the Nightforce dudes and the I work at a custom rifle company dude the judges of all things accuracy related in this forum? He tries to give the guy some info to the best of his ability and it turns into a dog pile. He never said the rifle was sub-moa. He said the rifle made one shot hits on the bottle caps about half the time. Bookhound, as the moderator of this forum I expected more from you. You basically called him a liar. It would be interesting for you to do that to his face. [://

Scott

Posted: 6/6/2011 7:02:38 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

I try to stay out of the stupid crap on this forum, but I will wade in on this one. First, Vote is a friend and customer of mine. No conflict of interest here, I had nothing to do with the rifle or ammo used. Who elected the Nightforce dudes and the I work at a custom rifle company dude the judges of all things accuracy related in this forum? He tries to give the guy some info to the best of his ability and it turns into a dog pile. He never said the rifle was sub-moa. He said the rifle made one shot hits on the bottle caps about half the time. Bookhound, as the moderator of this forum I expected more from you. You basically called him a liar. It would be interesting for you to do that to his face. [://

Scott

He said consistently the first time then he said half the time after being questioned. I suppose 3/6 could be considered consistency by some standards.... but to me those are two different ideas of performance being relayed.

I think Book is trying to save some poor guy from reading something uncontested and believing it and I'll admit I'm that poor guy.

Posted: 6/6/2011 7:13:41 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I try to stay out of the stupid crap on this forum, but I will wade in on this one. First, Vote is a friend and customer of mine. No conflict of interest here, I had nothing to do with the rifle or ammo used. Who elected the Nightforce dudes and the I work at a custom rifle company dude the judges of all things accuracy related in this forum? He tries to give the guy some info to the best of his ability and it turns into a dog pile. He never said the rifle was sub-moa. He said the rifle made one shot hits on the bottle caps about half the time. Bookhound, as the moderator of this forum I expected more from you. You basically called him a liar. It would be interesting for you to do that to his face. [://

Scott

He said consistently the first time then he said half the time after being questioned. I suppose 3/6 could be considered consistency by some standards.... but to me those are two different ideas of performance being relayed.

I think Book is trying to save some poor guy from reading something uncontested and believing it and I'll admit I'm that poor guy.

Book, and the others who questioned the claims indeed have the intention of keeping this forum (GA HTF) factual. They are very knowledgeable and willing to help, but don't want to see others led astray by questionable information or advice.

Posted: 6/6/2011 7:16:08 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Bookhound, as the moderator of this forum I expected more from you. You basically called him a liar. It would be interesting for you to do that to his face. [://

Scott

Book didn't call anybody a liar. Questioning someone's claims and giving them a chance to legitimize their claims is more than fair.
Not only "would" he do this face to face, he has offered up the chance to do so!

Posted: 6/7/2011 3:17:43 AM EDT

[#6]

man this is turning out to be the best thread the HTF has had in a long time. first the MOBC now this!

where's my popcorn?

Posted: 6/7/2011 3:55:25 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Bookhound, as the moderator of this forum I expected more from you. You basically called him a liar. It would be interesting for you to do that to his face. [://

Scott

Book didn't call anybody a liar. Questioning someone's claims and giving them a chance to legitimize their claims is more than fair.
Not only "would" he do this face to face, he has offered up the chance to do so!

Yep. I won't ever type something I'm not willing to say straight to the guy's face.

I even explained WHY I was suggesting that perhaps that poster was exaggerating (maybe not intentionally but just a little mistaken) or a little off on the facts. I did not call him a liar nor do I think he lied about anything. There is no way a typical less than sub-MOA rifle shooting sub-MOA ammo off a fence post(!) is going to consistently (that is the key word here if you can't tell) make sub-MOA hits. I'm just not buying that. I viewed the post as erroneous information and that is where I have the problem. Sorry if you (ScooterP) don't see that or disagree with me.

Mark

Posted: 6/7/2011 4:46:54 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
I try to stay out of the stupid crap on this forum, but I will wade in on this one. First, Vote is a friend and customer of mine. No conflict of interest here, I had nothing to do with the rifle or ammo used. Who elected the Nightforce dudes and the I work at a custom rifle company dude the judges of all things accuracy related in this forum? He tries to give the guy some info to the best of his ability and it turns into a dog pile. He never said the rifle was sub-moa. He said the rifle made one shot hits on the bottle caps about half the time. Bookhound, as the moderator of this forum I expected more from you. You basically called him a liar. It would be interesting for you to do that to his face. [://

Scott

For starters....no one called anybody a liar. The BS flag was thrown in order to validate claims as factual. Quite simple actually. Calling someone a LIAR straight out are big accusations. That was not the case here. The endeavor to clarify in order to validate the claims was the pursuit.

Too much anymore on internet forums, and even other sub forums here, claims that are less than factual are made all the time. Personally I don't venture outside the GA HTF on AR15.com very much. Most of my posts and information I share are right here in our HTF. So with that said, I feel I have a little more influence to correct inaccuracies here in our playroom rather than in GD.

The way the accuracy claims were made, seemed rather steep. My point was to get it painted in the correct light. Of which Daniel clarified in a PM to me which I asked him to post as to correct the way the information was arrived at. It does make a difference and will accurize the claims of the potential of the weapon.

Posted: 6/7/2011 4:59:02 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
I try to stay out of the stupid crap on this forum, but I will wade in on this one. First, Vote is a friend and customer of mine. No conflict of interest here, I had nothing to do with the rifle or ammo used. Who elected the Nightforce dudes and the I work at a custom rifle company dude the judges of all things accuracy related in this forum? He tries to give the guy some info to the best of his ability and it turns into a dog pile. He never said the rifle was sub-moa. He said the rifle made one shot hits on the bottle caps about half the time. Bookhound, as the moderator of this forum I expected more from you. You basically called him a liar. It would be interesting for you to do that to his face. [://

Scott

Well, it seems most of your post has been covered by others so I will address one of your first questions about "who elected the NF guys and custom rifle guy to be the judges of accuracy?" From this question, I can safely assume you don't shoot much precision rifle and surely haven't shot one built by the company Mark works for. Additionally, I would assume you don't have much expreience with Nf products. These 3 guys know what they're talking about.

Question for you: What do you get when you combine a precision bolt rifle and a NF scope?

Answer - Accuracy.

Posted: 6/7/2011 5:16:13 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Question for you: What do you get when you combine a precision bolt rifle and a NF scope?

Answer - A crap load of money.

fixed it for you. the combo still wouldn't fix my problems....

Posted: 6/7/2011 5:18:37 AM EDT

[#11]

Edit: double tap.....a whole different issue....

Posted: 6/7/2011 6:35:41 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Question for you: What do you get when you combine a precision bolt rifle and a NF scope?

Answer - A crap load of money.

fixed it for you. the combo still wouldn't fix my problems....

Haha! Touché

Posted: 6/7/2011 8:29:46 AM EDT

[#13]

I keep all of my ARs clean and wet anyway, so it is a no issue for me. For someone that wants a piston gun, as long as you buy one of the top 4 and not some odd ball, you should enjoy it. Some are prone to carrier tilt that eats up the buffer tube. Some have piston systems that seem to flex a lot in operation. The AA kit and the Stag, LMT, and Spikes seem to be pretty good. I wouln't mind having a Daniel Defense if they come out with one in a mid length hand guard. I have a DD M4(the original from Savannah), a Stag 2T, and a RRA mid length 5.56 with chrome lining. The RRA is my home defense, the DD is my safe gun kept ready, and the Stag is my 4 yr old daughters. It will be the one she gets for Christmas after she shows proficiency with her pink Red Ryder Daisy

Posted: 6/7/2011 9:54:30 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
I have a DD M4(the original from Savannah)

Hmmm, mine says Black Creek GA. A suburb of Savannah I guess. So did they move the factory or the whole gig or open a second location or what? At least it doesn't say 'made in china'.

[....as this thread takes a forth left turn we race to the finish line!]

Posted: 6/7/2011 11:08:41 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have a DD M4(the original from Savannah)

Hmmm, mine says Black Creek GA. A suburb of Savannah I guess. So did they move the factory or the whole gig or open a second location or what? At least it doesn't say 'made in china'.

[....as this thread takes a forth left turn we race to the finish line!]

Initially the factory was in Savannah. The DDM4s produced there had Savannah Ga on the rollmark. They then moved the facility to Black Creek.

Posted: 6/7/2011 11:44:52 AM EDT

[#16]

I think everyone need to understand what a forum is for- to share information in a searchable format to create a reference database. Like virtually every other forum, this one gets its share of BS, incorrect facts, non-pertinent info, and useless fluff. Its everyone's responsibility to rebut inaccurate claims and correct them before someone ends up under the assumption that (for example) their AR should be shooting 1/2 MOA or it's garbage. It is also everyone's responsibility to man up and take another person's disagreement maturely. Book, 00bullitt, and friends aren't responding to put Vote down, but they're not gonna read him a bedtime story either. In the end, someone may actually learn something.

Posted: 6/7/2011 4:23:53 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:In the end, someone may actually learn something.

The horror .........

Posted: 6/24/2011 12:02:13 PM EDT

[#18]

Any thoughts on the Rock River Piston Pistol. I like the fact that there is not a buffer sticking out the back.

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=441

Posted: 6/24/2011 12:10:30 PM EDT

[#19]

Would make an awesome SBR IMHO.

Love the CH position!

Had to hack the bolt carrier down to right at the ramp I guess, but then the loss of mass helps uncomplicate the spring setup. I wonder how the recoil is?

Posted: 6/24/2011 2:17:31 PM EDT

[#20]

How did I miss this

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Gas Piston vs Direct Impingement (Page 2 of 2)

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