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Posted: 4/9/2014 11:40:58 AM EDT

Im over here in Texas and wondering what your impression is of the open carry laws in your state or the lack thereof...

Do you literally see folks walking around in public all the time with holstered weapons???

Is it your impression that this causes alarm....or have you seen or heard of any stories of problems that occurred as a result of the largely unregulated open carry freedom in the state?

Im just curious what it looked like in a state where it was wide open...

Thanks

Posted: 4/9/2014 11:49:23 AM EDT

[#1]

It's legal, but I rarely see it. One reason is this awesome piece of legislation:

6. Going Armed To The Terror Of The People
By common law in North Carolina, it is unlawful for a person to arm himself/herself with any unusual and dangerous weapon, for the purpose of terrifying others, and go about on public highways in a mariner to cause terror to others. The N.C. Supreme Court states that any gun is an unusual and dangerous weapon for purposes of this offense. Therefore, persons are cautioned as to the areas they frequent with firearms.

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It's often an add-on charge, but it's there for use anybody somebody calls in a complaint.

I like the part that any gun is considered "an unusual and dangerous weapon".

Posted: 4/9/2014 12:07:30 PM EDT

[#2]

I see someone OC'ing in public about once every few years, at most. So basically no. I'm in a pretty rural and gun-friendly area too.

The "Going Armed to the Terror of the Public" law cited above is what would really concern me about OC'ing here. Literally if anyone calls the police "alarmed" because you are carrying, they can charge you with it. Its rarely used from my understanding, but still... IIRC the last time I saw someone OC'ing in a store it caused quite the commotion among the soccer moms.

I CC 24/7. I would definitely OC some if it were more widely accepted, especially if I were carrying a larger gun that day, but I still prefer CC. I'd love for it to become more commonplace. I smile every time I'm at a USPSA match, or like our HTF Shoot this past weekend, and see all those people who also have a handgun on their belt.

Posted: 4/9/2014 12:50:23 PM EDT

[#3]

I see people open carrying 4 or 5 times a month. I have never seen anyone complain or show concern. Might just be the areas i have seen it. I can see people complaining in liberal areas of the state because those are the same areas that post no conceal carry

Posted: 4/9/2014 2:22:24 PM EDT

[#4]

I see someone once a month or so....typically at Wal-Mart. I've never noticed any alarm, but I imagine if you were to make it a habit in the bigger cities it would not go over so well.

Posted: 4/9/2014 3:06:57 PM EDT

[#5]

In practice there is more to "going armed to the terror" than simply frightening one ignorant person by wearing a gun. Not to say you won't be contacted by LE if that person calls. My city pd for example has some must respond policy to reports of firearms, and they don't always approach the situation as if it's just concern but quite aggressively.
That said, it is a liberal area, I've seen one OCer in town in two years, late night at Wally world. I have seen a few in th far more conservative and rural surrounding communities.
Since you're asking about states with tolerant carry laws in AK I probably saw someone OC in town quarterly.
I have seen OC go seemingly unnoticed and othertimes I have seen apparent offence and and occasionally heard it confirmed.
I don't typically OC myself. But I find humor in it offending some people, considering all the things people do I find offensive.

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Posted: 4/9/2014 5:29:29 PM EDT

[#6]

OCing in NC is legal under a couple of State supreme courts rulings with State v. Dawson being one of them. In this case the court ruled citing the Huntly case that you are at perfect liberty to carry your gun for any lawful purpose either of business or amusement. They also went as far as to lay out the four essential elements needed in order to be charged with the common law of going armed to the terror of the people

Posted: 4/9/2014 6:06:52 PM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:

OCing in NC is legal under a couple of State supreme courts rulings with State v. Dawson being one of them. In this case the court ruled citing the Huntly case that you are at perfect liberty to carry your gun for any lawful purpose either of business or amusement. They also went as far as to lay out the four essential elements needed in order to be charged with the common law of going armed to the terror of the people

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I was not aware of that.

Posted: 4/9/2014 6:18:53 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:

It's legal, but I rarely see it. One reason is this awesome piece of legislation:
It's often an add-on charge, but it's there for use anybody somebody calls in a complaint.

I like the part that any gun is considered "an unusual and dangerous weapon".

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Quoted:

It's legal, but I rarely see it. One reason is this awesome piece of legislation:

6. Going Armed To The Terror Of The People

By common law in North Carolina, it is unlawful for a person to arm himself/herself with any unusual and dangerous weapon, for the purpose of terrifying others, and go about on public highways in a mariner to cause terror to others. The N.C. Supreme Court states that any gun is an unusual and dangerous weapon for purposes of this offense. Therefore, persons are cautioned as to the areas they frequent with firearms.

It's often an add-on charge, but it's there for use anybody somebody calls in a complaint.

I like the part that any gun is considered "an unusual and dangerous weapon".

What you posted is AG Roy " Comrade" Cooper's total misstatement of the ACTUAL case law on this common law charge.

State v. Huntly (http://www.guncite.com/court/state/25nc418.html). State v. Dawson. State v. Lerner

An element of the misdemeanor is "for the PURPOSE of terrifying others". The case law sets a high standard for that.

From State v. Huntley

But although a gun is an "unusual weapon,” it is to be remembered that the carrying of a gun per se constitutes no offence. For any lawful purpose-either of business or amusement-the citizen is at perfect liberty to carry his gun. It is the wicked purpose-and the mischievous result-which essentially constitute the crime. He shall not carry about this or any other weapon of death to terrify and alarm, and in such manner as naturally will terrify and alarm, a peaceful people.

Posted: 4/9/2014 6:26:09 PM EDT

[#9]

The plain truth is that our rabidly anti-gun Progressive (Communist) AG constantly officially slants every official pronouncement reference firearms and state firearms laws in a negative / denial way so that the uninformed serf 'assumes' what is legal is illegal.

Posted: 4/9/2014 9:53:16 PM EDT

[#10]

I don't have a conceal carry permit, simply because I haven't taken the time to get one. I work a split 2nd/3rd shift and spend a lot of my time out and about at night.

If I'm making a quick trip to the grocery store (usually Food Lion), running in a convenience store, or hitting a Redbox for a movie on the way home, I will open carry. I've never been harassed or hassled about it. Only once has a store employee asked me to leave the gun in the car next time. And because of that, I won't go back.

But in all honesty, open carry isn't something you see a lot of around here.

Posted: 4/9/2014 11:07:43 PM EDT

[#11]

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Quoted:
I was not aware of that.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
OCing in NC is legal under a couple of State supreme courts rulings with State v. Dawson being one of them. In this case the court ruled citing the Huntly case that you are at perfect liberty to carry your gun for any lawful purpose either of business or amusement. They also went as far as to lay out the four essential elements needed in order to be charged with the common law of going armed to the terror of the people

I was not aware of that.

same.

tagged for further information

Posted: 4/10/2014 5:41:41 AM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
same.

tagged for further information

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

OCing in NC is legal under a couple of State supreme courts rulings with State v. Dawson being one of them. In this case the court ruled citing the Huntly case that you are at perfect liberty to carry your gun for any lawful purpose either of business or amusement. They also went as far as to lay out the four essential elements needed in order to be charged with the common law of going armed to the terror of the people

I was not aware of that.

same.

tagged for further information

State v. Huntly, 25 N.C. (3 Ired.) 418 (1843) , State v. Dawson, 272 N.C. 535, 541-42 (1968), State v. Kerner, 181 N.C. 574 (1921),

The key part is that there are 4 elements to this common law misdemeanor - these were decided in the case law:

To be guilty of this offense, the perpetrator:

(1) arms himself or herself with an unusual and dangerous weapon

(2) for the purpose of terrifying others and

(3) goes about on public highways

(4) in a manner to cause terror to the people.

And, yes, in Huntly the NC State Supreme Court did, as Comrade Red Cooper partially truthfully states, that any gun is an unusal weapon - BUT right after that, in the same bedrock case law on this common law (traditional, not statute) misdemeanor says:

"But although a gun is an "unusual weapon,” it is to be remembered that the carrying of a gun per se constitutes no offence. For any lawful purpose-either of business or amusement-the citizen is at perfect liberty to carry his gun. It is the wicked purpose-and the mischievous result-which essentially constitute the crime. He shall not carry about this or any other weapon of death to terrify and alarm, and in such manner as naturally will terrify and alarm, a peaceful people."

This is common law. The case law provides the elements of the crime and the guidance for enforcement, guilt and punishment.

An typical LEO, who is not expected to be knowledgeable on every facet of state law, may arrest someone on this common law misdemeanor based on his or her imperfect understanding of the elements of the crime (if they have anything but the same knowledge exhibited here), but conviction is an entirely different story.

One example of a conviction for this common law misdemeanor is STATE v. RAMBERT No. 482PA94.459 S.E.2d 510 (1995) 341 N.C. 173.

In 1993 Rambert was erroneously convicted of going armed to the terror of the people by the court treating the misdemeanor as a Class H felony (he also was convicted of three counts of discharging a firearm into occupied property). He apparently met the elements of the crime as he went about the public highways armed and terrorizing people (shooting into occupied dwellings does that).

The Appeals Court overturned his over-conviction on the count of going armed to the terror (it is a misdemeanor and courts can't arbitrarily ignore the case law). The Appeals Court remanded.

The state asked for review in the NC Supreme Court over the claim that three felony charges for shooting into occupied dwellings violated double jeopardy, which the NC Supreme Court decided it didn't since he shot three times and it wasn't a machine gun but remanded the charge of the going armed charge for misdemeanor sentencing (again).

What Ramberts shows is that the elements of the common law crime must be met.

(1) Rambert armed himself or herself with an unusual and dangerous weapon (a gun)

(2) for the purpose of terrifying others (shooting into occupied dwellings) and

(3) goes about on public highways (drove / rode in a car)

(4) in a manner to cause terror to the people (shot into the occupied dwellings).

Posted: 4/10/2014 7:06:09 AM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
An typical LEO, who is not expected to be knowledgeable on every facet of state law, may arrest someone on this common law misdemeanor based on his or her imperfect understanding of the elements of the crime (if they have anything but the same knowledge exhibited here), but conviction is an entirely different story.

View Quote

Thanks for taking the time to educate. The snippet above is the main reason I quoted Cooper's "laws"...which the cover page clearly states:

Information contained in this publication should not be relied upon as legal advice in a particular scenario. This information is designed as a reference guide only.

Unfortunately, it's not just the general public that misunderstands the particulars of this charge.

Posted: 4/10/2014 7:11:12 AM EDT

[#14]

I have only seen one person OC.

Posted: 4/10/2014 11:45:06 AM EDT

[#15]

I usually see at least one or more people OCing when I'm out and about, but I'm in the Fort Bragg area so it might be a bit different.

Posted: 4/10/2014 12:27:42 PM EDT

[#16]

All the time at uwarie

Posted: 4/10/2014 12:46:21 PM EDT

[#17]

I see OCing infrequently in the Raleigh and RTP area, perhaps once or twice a month. Not surprising. Never seen it cause a stink though. Most people walk around with horse blinders on anyway. They are far more concerned with checking facetube on their phone than observing those around them. You could probably walk around downtown in an orange gorilla suit with a necklace made out of angry cats and most people wouldn't look twice, much less notice the Glock on your hip.

Thanks to ODA and others for the case law discussion. Good read.

Posted: 4/10/2014 2:18:41 PM EDT

[#18]

I'm not going to re-quote ODA's excellent post of factual information but I am glad he posted it. There is so much incorrect info about OC in NC.

I OC everywhere I legally can which in NC is a considerable amount of places. I have yet to be hassled by cops or regular people. If anything I get more positive comments than anything. A great source of information on OC is the Open Carry.org site.

What it looks like is me walking around with a full sized XD45 or XDm9 on my side in a quality holster and going about my business like the rest of the people. I equate OC'ing to the first time that you CC and you feel like everyone is staring at you. After a few times that goes away and it's a normal thing.

Posted: 4/10/2014 4:53:18 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
I see OCing infrequently in the Raleigh and RTP area, perhaps once or twice a month. Not surprising. Never seen it cause a stink though. Most people walk around with horse blinders on anyway. They are far more concerned with checking facetube on their phone than observing those around them. You could probably walk around downtown in an orange gorilla suit with a necklace made out of angry cats and most people wouldn't look twice, much less notice the Glock on your hip.

Thanks to ODA and others for the case law discussion. Good read.

View Quote

Tried that once and didn't get a second look either. My gorilla suit was that shiznit, but I don't think my cats were angry enough. Should have pissed off my wife and worn her instead.

I haven't seen much OC around Raleigh/RTP/Cary. If one were to do it, most folks would assume you were LE unless you had it carried mex style in your pants or were looking dumpy.

For me, concealed is concealed. It's like Nike - just do it.

Posted: 4/11/2014 5:08:29 AM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
I see someone once a month or so....typically at Wal-Mart. I've never noticed any alarm, but I imagine if you were to make it a habit in the bigger cities it would not go over so well.

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In January I saw a young guy OC'ing at the Stonecrest shopping malll near Charlotte. I would guess that most people, being oblivious while texting or yakking on their phones, really didn't even notice.

Posted: 4/11/2014 11:04:15 AM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
I'm not going to re-quote ODA's excellent post of factual information but I am glad he posted it. There is so much incorrect info about OC in NC.

I OC everywhere I legally can which in NC is a considerable amount of places. I have yet to be hassled by cops or regular people. If anything I get more positive comments than anything. A great source of information on OC is the Open Carry.org site.

What it looks like is me walking around with a full sized XD45 or XDm9 on my side in a quality holster and going about my business like the rest of the people. I equate OC'ing to the first time that you CC and you feel like everyone is staring at you. After a few times that goes away and it's a normal thing.

View Quote

That has been my experience as well... This is what I wrote on the subject years ago:

http://guywithguns.blogspot.com/2008/06/open-carry.html

Posted: 4/11/2014 2:14:35 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:

That has been my experience as well... This is what I wrote on the subject years ago:

http://guywithguns.blogspot.com/2008/06/open-carry.html

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm not going to re-quote ODA's excellent post of factual information but I am glad he posted it. There is so much incorrect info about OC in NC.

I OC everywhere I legally can which in NC is a considerable amount of places. I have yet to be hassled by cops or regular people. If anything I get more positive comments than anything. A great source of information on OC is the Open Carry.org site.

What it looks like is me walking around with a full sized XD45 or XDm9 on my side in a quality holster and going about my business like the rest of the people. I equate OC'ing to the first time that you CC and you feel like everyone is staring at you. After a few times that goes away and it's a normal thing.

That has been my experience as well... This is what I wrote on the subject years ago:

http://guywithguns.blogspot.com/2008/06/open-carry.html

Nice job on the OC post.

Posted: 4/12/2014 4:12:17 AM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:

Thanks for taking the time to educate. The snippet above is the main reason I quoted Cooper's "laws"...which the cover page clearly states:

Information contained in this publication should not be relied upon as legal advice in a particular scenario. This information is designed as a reference guide only.

Unfortunately, it's not just the general public that misunderstands the particulars of this charge.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
An typical LEO, who is not expected to be knowledgeable on every facet of state law, may arrest someone on this common law misdemeanor based on his or her imperfect understanding of the elements of the crime (if they have anything but the same knowledge exhibited here), but conviction is an entirely different story.

Thanks for taking the time to educate. The snippet above is the main reason I quoted Cooper's "laws"...which the cover page clearly states:

Information contained in this publication should not be relied upon as legal advice in a particular scenario. This information is designed as a reference guide only.

Unfortunately, it's not just the general public that misunderstands the particulars of this charge.

Coopers publication of North Carolina firearms laws is one part NC law and 9 parts Roy Coopers legal speak to make people think they say something else. His twisting of Pistol permit purchase law uses phrases like "courts have held" with no supporting case law or court referenced. easy enough to list if they indeed support your legal opinion.

Posted: 4/12/2014 5:11:47 AM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
Coopers publication of North Carolina firearms laws is one part NC law and 9 parts Roy Coopers legal speak to make people think they say something else. His twisting of Pistol permit purchase law uses phrases like "courts have held" with no supporting case law or court referenced. easy enough to list if they indeed support your legal opinion.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

An typical LEO, who is not expected to be knowledgeable on every facet of state law, may arrest someone on this common law misdemeanor based on his or her imperfect understanding of the elements of the crime (if they have anything but the same knowledge exhibited here), but conviction is an entirely different story.

Thanks for taking the time to educate. The snippet above is the main reason I quoted Cooper's "laws"...which the cover page clearly states:

Information contained in this publication should not be relied upon as legal advice in a particular scenario. This information is designed as a reference guide only.

Unfortunately, it's not just the general public that misunderstands the particulars of this charge.

Coopers publication of North Carolina firearms laws is one part NC law and 9 parts Roy Coopers legal speak to make people think they say something else. His twisting of Pistol permit purchase law uses phrases like "courts have held" with no supporting case law or court referenced. easy enough to list if they indeed support your legal opinion.

But, strangely, Comrade Roy "Red" Cooper, has run unopposed as the Democrat Communist AG several times - and plans on running for Governor.

The Democrat Communist dominated NC Sheriffs Association bows to him and the county sheriffs act as though he is their commander. He says "don't sign Form 1s and 4s and don't issue MG permits" and they all give a Party salute and fall in ranks.

Because "our local / state Democrats Communists are like old-time Democrats Fascists and not like the Progressive Democrats Communists in Washington.

The Democrats (then Fascists, now Communists) in NC seized power after Reconstruction by suppressing blacks and dissent (Republicans and centrist Democrats - see the Kirk-Holden War and the coup d'état in Wilmington in 1898 - the only coup d'état in US history).

They then crafted laws to insure that "undesirables" would never be armed to resist them. It's all about their power to them.

Stay in power by oppressing blacks, poor people and unions or stay in power by manipulating blacks, poor people, and unions - either works. Now they have their power base increased by the squishy soft white-guilt "Andy Griffith liberals" who love tyranny as long as it oppresses them (they deserve it, after all, for their white privilege and the hetrocage).

Posted: 4/13/2014 2:18:01 PM EDT

[#25]

I OC more often than CC where I am at. Never had a second glance at it in my area. I do it quite often up in VA as well. The few time I have been stopped(by LEO or non-LEO) it has been to either ask about the gun(usually my sig 1911) or ask about the legality of OC'ing(everyone I've talked to about it has thought that it was illegal).

Posted: 4/13/2014 2:44:55 PM EDT

[#26]

I was trying hard not to go full retard, but the Cooper publication, North Carolina Firearms Laws,

here

Is an embarrassment to the State of North Carolina.
What should be a simple listing of the laws of NC so that the people can read and understand them is full of circular argument and obfuscation.
If you do not read it close it will give you the impression that lawful actions in NC are illegal, or at best risky.

Posted: 4/14/2014 6:42:35 AM EDT

[#27]

Live work in far WNC - "far" as in just far enough from Asheville.

I see a handful of people OCing in the Smokys. Most appear, young, male and, if I had to classify them, halfway between the outdoorsy and the tactical type. Rarely do I see "regular" people OCing. Typical of geardos, they want to talk guns or see if I notice them. Working where I work, I've gotten good at noticing people while looking like I've got something better to do

In and about town, I hardly ever see OCers.

spf

Posted: 4/15/2014 5:14:01 AM EDT

[#28]

I see it around Fuquay maybe once a month or so, no one seems to care out here where I live.

Posted: 4/15/2014 5:34:52 PM EDT

[#29]

I see it on occasion and have never noticed anyone freaked out by it. Most people either don't notice or assume the person is a cop is my guess. A friend of mine OC's regularly and has never had any trouble from local police.

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