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Posted: 2/28/2007 5:56:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/9/2007 8:51:53 PM EST by m4_grunt]
Defensive Concepts North Carolina will be conducting Defensive Shotgun training in Albemarle, NC, on 7 April 2007. The class will begin at 0830. This class is an (8) hour course. Three Instructors will be teaching the class.

Below is a brief course description:


Defensive Shotgun




The shotgun is the one of the most powerful and prolific weapons available to the average concerned-citizen. Able to deliver instant, fight stopping damage to an attacker at social distances; the shotgun can also be used out to 100 yards with ease. Students of the Defensive Shotgun course will be exposed to proper manipulation of the shotgun during hostile encounters, marksmanship fundamentals, patterning of the shotgun, the engagement of single and multiple attackers, and other life-saving fundamentals through the use of discussion, demonstration, and extensive live-fire application.


Course date: Saturday, 7 April 2007
Location: Albemarle, NC
Tuition: Rate available upon request
Class begins @ 0830 and will run for 8 hours (we will break for (1) hour for lunch)


This will be a very intensive course, so class size will be limited to (10) students.

To register for the course or to have questions about the course answered, please call me at (704)798-1560, email me, m4grunt@hotmail.com or PM me through this forum.

Seats for this class will fill quickly!!! We hope to see you at the class!!!

Steve Hawley
North Carolina Concealed Carry Handgun Instructor
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Link Posted: 3/4/2007 8:26:10 PM EST

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Link Posted: 3/12/2007 6:30:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/12/2007 6:31:16 PM EST by m4_grunt]
We still have room for a few more for this scatter gun goodness.
Steve Hawley
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Link Posted: 3/15/2007 3:01:47 PM EST
Steve, Can't wait for the class!! If it's anything like the last one it'll be a blast!

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Link Posted: 3/21/2007 4:14:26 PM EST
Still room for one or two more people wanting to learn the effective way to run their shotguns. Come on out and learn how to get more bang for your buck.

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Link Posted: 3/21/2007 4:20:02 PM EST
Steve,
For those of us that unfortunately can't make this one, any chance on a second helping?


Thanks
Rob
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Link Posted: 3/21/2007 5:33:51 PM EST
Most definitely, but we don't have a second class slated yet (give us a couple weeks). I'll keep you in the loop!

Steve Hawley
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Link Posted: 3/21/2007 5:45:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
Still room for one or two more people wanting to learn the effective way to run their shotguns. Come on out and learn how to get more bang for your buck.


What sort of shotgun and rounds would be required/recommended? I have an 870 (18" barrel) w/4 rnd capacity and any kind of round(s) imagineable.

SM

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Link Posted: 3/21/2007 6:10:17 PM EST
I'll have to look into one off your classes when my funds are not to tight.

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Link Posted: 3/22/2007 4:39:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/22/2007 4:43:50 AM EST by NCPatrolAR]

Originally Posted By SandyMush:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
Still room for one or two more people wanting to learn the effective way to run their shotguns. Come on out and learn how to get more bang for your buck.


What sort of shotgun and rounds would be required/recommended? I have an 870 (18" barrel) w/4 rnd capacity and any kind of round(s) imagineable.

SM


YOur shotgun would be fine with the addition of a sling to it (slings are mandatory for the course). When I designed the course, I set it up around shotguns that have a 4 round magazine, so you shouldnt see any probems. Ghost ring sights, side saddles, forend lights, etc are all nice to have but arent required in this class. A side saddle would be nice though since it would permit you to carry spare ammo with the gun and limit the amount of time you are fumbling in your pockets for rounds to load.


The course requires to students to run buck (whatever kind you plan to use for self-protection), slugs, and birdshot (this is the majority of rounds for the class and is used since we will be shooting steel). The round count is approximately 35 - buck, 35 - slug, 325 - birdshot, and 50 rounds for your pistol.

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Link Posted: 3/22/2007 4:58:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Originally Posted By SandyMush:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
Still room for one or two more people wanting to learn the effective way to run their shotguns. Come on out and learn how to get more bang for your buck.


What sort of shotgun and rounds would be required/recommended? I have an 870 (18" barrel) w/4 rnd capacity and any kind of round(s) imagineable.

SM


YOur shotgun would be fine with the addition of a sling to it (slings are mandatory for the course). When I designed the course, I set it up around shotguns that have a 4 round magazine, so you shouldnt see any probems. Ghost ring sights, side saddles, forend lights, etc are all nice to have but arent required in this class. A side saddle would be nice though since it would permit you to carry spare ammo with the gun and limit the amount of time you are fumbling in your pockets for rounds to load.


The course requires to students to run buck (whatever kind you plan to use for self-protection), slugs, and birdshot (this is the majority of rounds for the class and is used since we will be shooting steel). The round count is approximately 35 - buck, 35 - slug, 325 - birdshot, and 50 rounds for your pistol.


Man, with that kind of round count I wish I was going to be there. If anyone is wondering if they should sign-up, do it. You get alot of on the line instruction.and this group is fun.

If you guys/gals have a chance stop by and see me at the Gastonia PD Sniper Shoot. I might even be able to get you into the "sponsored" happy hour.

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Link Posted: 3/22/2007 3:13:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/22/2007 3:18:25 PM EST by m4_grunt]
This is going to be educational and fun. As Chris has said, this class is the best way to to get more bang for your buck.

We have a few slots left. PM me or email me, m4grunt@hotmail.com to enroll.

Thanks!!!
Steve Hawley
North Carolina Concealed Carry Handgun Instructor
Defensive Concepts North Carolina
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Link Posted: 3/23/2007 8:48:22 AM EST
I can't wait. Just from talking to m4_grunt (Steve) at Uwharrie got me wishing it was the 7th all ready!
SteyrAug: "I have never been so bummed out watching two people fuck in my life. I've seen happier car accidents"

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Link Posted: 3/30/2007 5:55:47 PM EST
Last call!

Let me know if you want "in".
Steve Hawley
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Link Posted: 3/31/2007 4:52:26 PM EST
Guys
This is going to be a kick a$& class.
You won't be disappointed, just ask students we've already taught.
I'm looking forward to doing this one.



Paul Eudy
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Link Posted: 3/31/2007 5:09:48 PM EST
I am waiting for a course on how to use my AR. If you have a list of needed stuff, please let me know so I can start collecting now!
Coming at you like a herd of turtles.
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Link Posted: 4/1/2007 11:42:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/1/2007 11:43:09 AM EST by Eli822]
M4_Grunt...Sent you an IM with some questions.



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Link Posted: 4/3/2007 12:45:58 PM EST
Ah I'm getting anxious!! Got all the parts in and she's ready to go now!


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Link Posted: 4/3/2007 12:54:17 PM EST
Anyone else?

FYI - - - we are working the Carbine. Stand-by..........
Steve Hawley
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Link Posted: 4/6/2007 11:18:23 AM EST
I wanted to attend this class, but am unable.

Please consider doing another.

Thank you,

nct

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Link Posted: 4/6/2007 12:19:02 PM EST
Will do, nct.

To all interested, we will hopefully know something about Defensive Carbine by Sunday.

Thank you for your patience and interest.

To all those attending Defensive Shotgun tomorrow, I bid you welcome and look forward to seeing old friends and meeting new ones.
Steve Hawley
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Link Posted: 4/8/2007 8:34:26 AM EST
&^$@, that was a great #$*%ing class! You @$#(s who missed it are !@(&ing cheating yourselves out of #$&@ing knowing how to @#&%ing run your $@#*ing shotgun!

(Sorry, they made a bit of an impression.)

Anyway, here are my unorganized thoughts on the class:

- You pay for 8 hours of training, but we got 12 full hours of learnin', and not a lot of breaks or jibber-jabber either. Some folks might have spousal issues with that, and my butt was definitely dragging by the end. This is not a criticism, just don't plan to do anything else that day!

- While it is a "beginner's" class, in that you don't really need any prior shotgun experience to benefit from it, it is an "adult's" class, and I don't mean just the language. Cramming what might be a 5 day class elsewhere into one day means that the instructors aren't there to hold your hand and baby-step you all day. You need to be able to step up and fix yourself using their guidance. This is also not a criticism! It's just the nature of this course.

- You will also not be fully up to speed by the end of the class. Again, this is a limitation of the format. But you will have all the tools to do so!

- NCDC are not doctrinaire guru worshipers. They teach what works, and why it works. In particular, I was skeptical about the utility of the Sul position and Satterwhite high-ready position at first, but now I get it.

- We were also treated to NCPatrolAR's insights on zombies, midgets, crackheads, cats, crackhead cats, MILF porn, film reviews, and alternate uses of IV fluid bags. No extra charge!

Gear notes: Shotguns represented were 3 870s, 1 1100, 1 Franchi LAW-12, and a Benelli M1. I'll tell you what, the dude running the Franchi got a lot of practice on his transitions and malfunction clearing. I don't think it ran more than 2 shells without jamming up in one way or another. It also vomited what looked like part of a recoil buffer and a washer out the ejection port early in the class! But he stuck with it and got a gold star for manning up. I would make a joke about not trusting your life to weapons designed in countries that can't win their own wars, but the Benelli ran like a damn tank all day.

3 point and single point slings were most popular, and those guys had an easier time on transitions than us dinosaurs running traditional slings. I'm still a little skeptical of them, both 1 and 3 point slings look like a great way to trip yourself up or nail yourself in the beanbag, but neither happened that I saw.

Other lessons learned: Check your damn stuff before 'game time'. We got to see an 870 detach itself from a single point sling and nosedive into the turf, and a guy transition from his 1100 to an empty USP-45. hy.gif

I was interested to see nobody running a vest or other fancy ways of carrying shotshells. Most everybody just shoved what they needed into their pockets.

You can adapt pretty much any sling to any gun with some zip ties and duct tape.

Anyway, I was highly satisfied with the material and drills presented and would highly recommend that anybody who keeps a shotgun in the home take the class. $125 is a bargain, compared to how much we waste on gun gadgets and doo-dads that don't improve the shooter.

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Link Posted: 4/8/2007 2:20:09 PM EST
I'll be at the next one, come high water or otherwise.
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Link Posted: 4/8/2007 2:54:22 PM EST
pdb thanks for the good review.
You guys did a great job of keeping at it in the cold.
Who would have thought it wouldn't get over about 40 degrees all day. You guys did a great job.

As for the equipment issues we'd rather find out your stuff don't work while your training instead of during a life threatening situation.

Paul Eudy
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Link Posted: 4/8/2007 4:11:46 PM EST
Excellent review. I am looking forward to a class with these guys.
Coming at you like a herd of turtles.
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Link Posted: 4/8/2007 4:46:55 PM EST
When is the next class scheduled for?

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Link Posted: 4/8/2007 8:41:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By pdb27127:
&^$@, that was a great #$*%ing class! You @$#(s who missed it are !@(&ing cheating yourselves out of #$&@ing knowing how to @#&%ing run your $@#*ing shotgun!

(Sorry, they made a bit of an impression.)

One thing for sure! The guys at DCNC do make an impression!
Even after attending yesterday's class pdb's review has got me so stoked I can hardly wait for their next offering.
Several years ago I had the honor of having dinner at the home of a gentleman I had met a few months earlier at a convention in Nevada. Our conversation afterwards led to guns and shooting. One of his first questions on the subject was, "Why do you shoot". The first thing that came to mind was, "Because it's fun". "That's right", he said. I felt as if I had just answered the million dollar question. That person was no other than the late Jeff Cooper. I was fortunate enough to make two more trips after that to his place, each time trying to leave with has much knowledge as I could from his wealth of knowlegde.
So what has that got to do with these classes I've attended? If nothing else they are just plain FUN! Also while you can for $125.00 take advantage of the knowledge that each of these instructors have to offer.

I can't recommend this class highly enough. No matter what your reason-if you what to increase your 12 ga. knowledge-you will! If you just want to have a fun day of instructor lead shooting at the range-you will! (And you just may learn a few things also.)

As for their next offering, all those interested in the Carbine class will find their asses in line behind me!

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Link Posted: 4/9/2007 4:08:23 PM EST
I am pleased to see that a favorable impression was made on you guys and I hope that all of you took home lessons to make your own.

As always, it was an honor and a priviledge. I look forward to carrying on what I feel to be a service to anyone and everyone who wants to make sure that they go home safe each and every night.

Steve Hawley
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Link Posted: 4/9/2007 6:29:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/9/2007 6:31:51 PM EST by NCPatrolAR]
Some pics from the class


Paul and Steve discussing the elements of justified self-defense in NC



Paul demoing how he lost the role of Doc Holiday to Val Vilmer



The Franchi LAW that vomited a washer, hard plastic pieces, and something that looked like walnuts



An example of the cross-section of shotguns being used in the class. NOTE the shotgun in the forground has its sling secured through the use of a cable tie. That is what happens when you dont pay attention to the packing list and show up with no sling for your shotgun



Putting slugs downrange



Patterning the shotguns


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Link Posted: 4/9/2007 7:33:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/9/2007 7:35:00 PM EST by NCPatrolAR]
To start with, I'd like to thank everyone for coming out and puting up with the 30-40 degree weather and giving it all during the entire class. Who would have thought that we would be dealing with weather like that in April. Regardless, everyone stepped up and gave 110% and the results from the hard work could be easily seen by the end of the day.

Somethings I observed during the class:

1. If you are going to run any kind of sling, make sure it is secure. As was mentioned we had one person's 870 take a swan dive into the dirt when the user's single point sling came undone. Luckily the shotgun was unloaded, but the message was driven home. There were also several shotguns that were using slings that were secured through the use of velcro. These are highly unreliable and the point was made when I almost ripped one off my body during the morning.

2. If you are using a side saddle, make sure you locktite the screws that secure it to the plate. We had one saddle make a sudden departure from the the gun.

3. Make sure you know what your shotgun will do with what load you are carrying in it. If there was any part of the day that was truely eye-opening, it had to be when we did the patterning of the guns. It is a bit un-nerving to know that your shotgun throws a 24" pattern at 10 yards with 00 buck. The same holds true for your slug load of choice.

4. Keep an open mind. We taught material that some people questioned when it was introduced. After explaining its true purpose, most people began to see it wasnt quite as useless as the initially thought it was. As was mentioned earlier, we (DCNC) are not driven by a specific doctrine. We teach what we feel is the most applicable to our students.

5. Make sure your gun works with all kinds of ammo. Having a $1k weapon doesnt do you any good if it will only feed one kind of ammo when the moon and stars are perfectly aligned.



Again, I want to thank everyone who came out and took part in the class. We do our best to deliever material that is usable as soon as the students leave the range. But we cant stress enough, taking a class wont make you an expert of this material. We are here to give you the building blocks for you to continue your training on. SHooting is a highly perishable skill and everyone that carries a gun for serious use (CCH holder, police, military, etc) has to go out and train regularly. If you arent training then you are never going to obtain any level of mastery over a skill set.

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Link Posted: 4/10/2007 4:28:37 AM EST
I really missed out. Severe car trouble got me. I'm still so ticked off that I haven't even unpacked half of my stuff from the truck.

Looks like it was all I was expecting and more. I knew it would be a good class.
Too bad 4 me.

Now I have a ton of shotgun ammo for the zombie invasion.
SteyrAug: "I have never been so bummed out watching two people fuck in my life. I've seen happier car accidents"

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Link Posted: 4/10/2007 2:44:50 PM EST
All I was doing was practicing my ESP during the breaks.
As you can see I was doing pretty well until the flash made me think there was a nuclear blast to my front. That started the ESP blue gun to spin. Messed me up the rest of the day.
I need to stress train more.

As NCPatrolAR said, thanks to everyone that took the class.
We're working on another Defensive Pistol and Defensive Shotgun.
That'll give you guys that are on the fence a chance to get in on the fun.

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