Well, it's official. The FUDDS (Democrats?) are running Missouri Dept. of Conservation Ranges.....

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Well, it's official. The FUDDS (Democrats?) are running Missouri Dept. of Conservation Ranges..... (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 5/13/2017 11:15:58 AM EDT

Rules now include...

One shot every three seconds

No .50 BMG

No machine guns (on ANY of their ranges)

Wonder when they are going to institute a rule stating you can only load one round into the weapon?

Back in the day, Pony Express Pistol Club would run IPSC matches at Pigeon Hill, the one shot every three seconds kills that

Maybe it's time to write a letter to Gov. Greitens.

Posted: 5/13/2017 1:31:26 PM EDT

[#1]

I know the one just North of Springfield (Andy Dalton?) doesn't allow silhouette targets. I find this crazy as to qualify for CCW you have to shoot one based on State Law!

Posted: 5/13/2017 2:17:01 PM EDT

[#2]

While I don't like it I can at least understand why they would do this. Have you ever been to a dept. of conservation range? There are some "interesting" characters there at times. The few times I have been to one I found myself asking, How do these people remember to breath, let along shoot a firearm safely?

Posted: 5/13/2017 4:36:34 PM EDT

[#3]

That all sounds like what the rules have been at Lake City for some time. A smith that I spoke with had a malfunction on a project a few years ago and his rifle went full auto. Freaked the range folks out. He showed them the part that broke, but they still kicked him out for going full auto. They should have been happy he was a professional and kept his barrel on the target and told everyone that is how you handle an emergency. They also always handle people's guns and bang them around looking at the bolts. Some folks with some high-dollar rifles have gotten pretty upset.

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Wonder when they are going to institute a rule stating you can only load one round into the weapon?

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Don't give them any more ideas!

Posted: 5/13/2017 5:31:35 PM EDT

[#4]

We so badly need a nice gun club north of the river.

Posted: 5/13/2017 5:31:47 PM EDT

[#5]

Those have always been the rules at the two manned ranges in STL (Henges & Busch)......for 15+ yrs. You've always had to use their targets and only shoot once every three seconds. I've never seen anything about "no machine guns", but how would they know, especially when you can only shoot once every three seconds on semi-auto?? Only thing I ever remember changing has been the check-in / check-out procedure.

Posted: 5/13/2017 5:43:48 PM EDT

[#6]

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Those have always been the rules at the two manned ranges in STL (Henges & Busch)......for 15+ yrs. You've always had to use their targets and only shoot once every three seconds. I've never seen anything about "no machine guns", but how would they know, especially when you can only shoot once every three seconds on semi-auto?? Only thing I ever remember changing has been the check-in / check-out procedure.

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Pigeon Hill (unmanned range) USED to allow machine guns, when I called to confirm they were no longer allowed I was informed that "bump fire" was O.K.

This goes to prove how stupid the Conservation agents are, bump fire is safer than full auto?

I've held several MOHTF shoots there over the years and there was NO RULE about no faster than one shot every three seconds.

If they REALLY want to make Pigeon Hill safer they need to do something about the FUDDS muzzle sweeping everyone there.

Posted: 5/13/2017 10:22:49 PM EDT

[#7]

Put up a detailed post about it on his Facebook page. No shit a small lot car dealership did this bitchng about the State mandate for a land line phone for car dealers and Greitens said "thats dumb" and away that law went.

Posted: 5/13/2017 10:59:34 PM EDT

[#8]

If I could find your post I would comment as well.

Posted: 5/14/2017 12:38:38 AM EDT

[#9]

The MDC is a very different organization than it was 20 years ago.

The people making the decisions seem to cater to the Sierra Club types more than the average outdoorsman.

Posted: 5/14/2017 9:40:54 AM EDT

[#10]

Yes it is. And you have the 1/8 sales tax to thank. Once they had their own funding stream and answered to no one ---F-U. Political hacks appointed to the commission. The only one I knew was the largest timber owner in the State. I sure he was on there for the chillans.

Posted: 5/14/2017 11:17:09 AM EDT

[#11]

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Quoted:
That all sounds like what the rules have been at Lake City for some time. A smith that I spoke with had a malfunction on a project a few years ago and his rifle went full auto. Freaked the range folks out. He showed them the part that broke, but they still kicked him out for going full auto. They should have been happy he was a professional and kept his barrel on the target and told everyone that is how you handle an emergency.

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Quote History

Quoted:
That all sounds like what the rules have been at Lake City for some time. A smith that I spoke with had a malfunction on a project a few years ago and his rifle went full auto. Freaked the range folks out. He showed them the part that broke, but they still kicked him out for going full auto. They should have been happy he was a professional and kept his barrel on the target and told everyone that is how you handle an emergency.

Many moons ago I was at said range, on scenic Argo Road, and was trying to give my Colt Delta Elite a lighter trigger pull by tweaking the sear spring. I'd shoot a few rounds, unload the pistol, take out the sear spring and bend back the middle finger, reassemble and shoot a few more rounds. The last time I got it too light and basically bump-fired a full mag of 10mm medium to warm loads. Thankfully I had a firm two-handed grip on the pistol and all rounds impacted the berm. I think. Anyway they quickly got on the PA and yelled "CEASE FIRE! CEASE FIRE! NUMBER 7, YOU'RE FIRING TOO QUICKLY!"

I took the spring back out and bent it forward a wee bit while offering my mea culpas.

Quoted:
They also always handle people's guns and bang them around looking at the bolts. Some folks with some high-dollar rifles have
gotten pretty upset.

I found a way to prevent that, besides not going there. I only unbagged one rifle at a time and when they called a cease fire I simply unloaded that gun and rebagged it. Done. No more fingerbanging of my guns by the curious ROs.

In the end I simply joined a private club.

Posted: 5/14/2017 11:21:38 AM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
If they REALLY want to make Pigeon Hill safer they need to do something about the FUDDS muzzle sweeping everyone there.

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I went there ONCE on my own. While the line was hot, with lead in the air, Bubba, who was shooting on the far right end of the line, sent Junior down the right side to hang a new target.

I saw this and IMMEDIATELY laid down my gun and screamed "CEASE FIRE! CEASE FIRE!" as loud as I possibly could. Everyone stopped shooting and looked over to see what was happening. Bubba said something to the effect of "It's alright, we're on the end."

I packed up quickly, left, and never went back.

Posted: 5/14/2017 11:52:41 AM EDT

[#13]

Around ten years ago I was there with my two sons and an idiot kept chatting with a few friends of his and pointing a Beretta 92 in our direction. After being muzzle swept more than a dozen times I finally said "Do you mind keeping your weapon pointed down range and not pointing it towards us?"

The idiot asks "How is that your business?"

At that point I lifted up my shirt and tucked it in exposing my badge and sidearm and stated "You REALLY don't want to go there!"

They packed up and left.

Also, at the last MOHTF shoot we had there, when everyone arrived the range was full of FUDDS, by the time 30-40 "Black Rifles" had been unpacked all of them left

Posted: 5/14/2017 12:39:50 PM EDT

[#14]

I used to fire my SKS as quickly as I wanted at Parma Woods, and no one said a thing. I'd smoke cigarettes in the booth as well without issue. Then one day I went to Lake City (the old one) and had to slow down my shooting and couldn't smoke my cigs. Went back to Parma Woods and suddenly they had the same rules. Now that I live on the east side, I will go to LC every now and again, but only for sighting in or precision shooting. They do have a very nice range, just as long as you're cool with not having any fun.

Haven't been to Pigeon Hill but once many years ago. Went to Concordia a few years back and it was alright for only having 3 lanes. Too many idiots in KC for there to ever be a range like that around here.

Posted: 5/14/2017 1:27:37 PM EDT

[#15]

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...and couldn't smoke my cigs.

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I'm OK with that one.

Posted: 5/14/2017 3:30:55 PM EDT

[#16]

I'll only go to Parma if I'm taking a new shooter I don't trust. I won't ever go to Pigeon Hill again. I've never seen a Fudd there, but plenty of Bubba's with their SKS's and all the asshattery and unsafe firearms handling that goes along with that.

Posted: 5/15/2017 10:32:28 AM EDT

[#17]

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I'm OK with that one.

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Dude, it's an outdoor range.

I actually quit 3 months ago so hopefully I can keep it going.

Posted: 5/15/2017 5:01:10 PM EDT

[#18]

All of the MO DOC ranges have sucked for years and had stupid rules like this. We once called, months in advance, and made arrangements to have a machine gun shoot at Parma. We got the ok verbally and in writing. Called on the day of to confirm and all was good. When we showed up, they suddenly changed their minds and said it's not allowed under any circumstances. Then there were the times I've been shot at at Pigeon Hill - when downrange changing targets. I was once approached by undercover ATF at Parma - I assume because of the way I looked and what I was wearing - and they tried to get intel on militias, wanted to hang out, and asked if I would sell them a gun. I'm the last person in the fucking world you should ask about militias and gun purchases.

The last straw for me was when I was at Parma, shooting a S&W 500. The rangemaster decided .500 was not allowed, during a ceasefire and after I'd already popped off about 20 rnds, and he started yelling at me from his office and yelled all the way down the range until he got to my stall. While the entire packed range watched, he got in my face, inches away from my nose, and screamed at me with his best Gunnery Sergeant Hartman FMJ impression. Spit flew from his mouth and his face was bright red as he shouted at me. When he was done shouting, I started packing my shit and, in a voice loud enough for the entire range to hear, told him to go fuck himself and that I'd never be back to his fucking fascist range.

Posted: 5/15/2017 9:17:54 PM EDT

[#19]

It took me only a few times at the Lake City range to decide to find a private range, beside the rules and the range nazi patrolling, it was like shooting in a giant echo chamber that amplified the sound by 100x.

Posted: 5/15/2017 11:00:25 PM EDT

[#20]

Who shoots at a public range? I've never understood why someone would invest thousands of dollars in firearms but won't at the very least pay a membership to a real gun club.

Posted: 5/16/2017 12:35:41 AM EDT

[#21]

I raised hell here about the MDC ranges years ago. Even began exchanging emails with a very high up. They don't care about our peasant opinions.

FUCK MDC ranges. I still go to Pigeon Hill because it's free and somewhat close but it's rare.

Pigeon Hill isn't that bad. I've seen a few things that caught my attention....but I have no problem barking at people and correcting them. I'm always ROing everybody anyway at any range

Posted: 5/16/2017 7:38:40 AM EDT

[#22]

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Quoted:
I'll only go to Parma if I'm taking a new shooter I don't trust. I won't ever go to Pigeon Hill again. I've never seen a Fudd there, but plenty of Bubba's with their SKS's and all the asshattery and unsafe firearms handling that goes along with that.

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While I know and understand the range Nazis and rules are crazy, this is the reason why they are there. I work for MDC-I'm not involved with the ranges or their rules (I don't like the no 50 bmg rule)-and the stories that I hear from the people who run the ranges are just crazy.

Posted: 5/16/2017 10:54:18 AM EDT

[#23]

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While I know and understand the range Nazis and rules are crazy, this is the reason why they are there. I work for MDC-I'm not involved with the ranges or their rules (I don't like the no 50 bmg rule)-and the stories that I hear from the people who run the ranges are just crazy.

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Sorry for the sideline but when is Busch ever going to open?

I thought it was suppose to open in Jan '17?

Posted: 5/16/2017 10:57:15 AM EDT

[#24]

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I raised hell here about the MDC ranges years ago. Even began exchanging emails with a very high up. They don't care about our peasant opinions.

FUCK MDC ranges. I still go to Pigeon Hill because it's free and somewhat close but it's rare.

Pigeon Hill isn't that bad. I've seen a few things that caught my attention....but I have no problem barking at people and correcting them. I'm always ROing everybody anyway at any range

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This has been my experience too.

Compliment them & they love you. Offer a small word of advice & you're not professional enough.

Mentioning that you're contacting your state reps to encourage them to take away their special sales tax gives them ants in the pants though.

Posted: 5/16/2017 10:46:57 PM EDT

[#25]

Where are these rule changes posted?

Honestly, I'm all for it. Pidgin Hill is turning into a garbage dump. I wish conservation would sit out there 24/7 and ticket every minor offense they could until the riff-raff quits showing up.

Posted: 5/16/2017 11:49:26 PM EDT

[#26]

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Where are these rule changes posted?

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That's one of the B.S. issues with them! The only reference I can find is in a video they have posted.

Don't think that because it isn't in writing they won't issue a summons, they will.

Posted: 5/17/2017 12:48:29 AM EDT

[#27]

I posted an Apple Seed target at Henges. They made me take it down. Something that resembles the top half of a pot hat is too much like a silhouette.
Just not very user riendly

Story I heard on the new Busch Range is that their target date is just before Rifle Season. When the project was announced, the projection was 30 to 36 months. In true state project fashion, it didn't meet the schedule.

Posted: 5/17/2017 7:50:53 AM EDT

[#28]

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Sorry for the sideline but when is Busch ever going to open?

I thought it was suppose to open in Jan '17?

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This summer

Posted: 5/17/2017 4:06:50 PM EDT

[#29]

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Quoted:
I know the one just North of Springfield (Andy Dalton?) doesn't allow silhouette targets. I find this crazy as to qualify for CCW you have to shoot one based on State Law!

View Quote

This is why I used to only go to the Pleasant Hope range in the Springfield Area until I joined a range.
Pleasant Hope is unstaffed and you can pretty much do what you want. I've never been bugged by anyone there.

Posted: 5/17/2017 9:49:54 PM EDT

[#30]

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This summer

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When?

Summer begins in June.

Thanks

Posted: 5/18/2017 7:14:11 PM EDT

[#31]

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Pigeon Hill (unmanned range) USED to allow machine guns, when I called to confirm they were no longer allowed I was informed that "bump fire" was O.K.

This goes to prove how stupid the Conservation agents are, bump fire is safer than full auto?

I've held several MOHTF shoots there over the years and there was NO RULE about no faster than one shot every three seconds.

If they REALLY want to make Pigeon Hill safer they need to do something about the FUDDS muzzle sweeping everyone there.

View Quote

The LAST time I went to Pigeon Hill I was swept 3 times in about 5 seconds, with a loaded pistol by the same person. They couldn't understand why I was so livid

Posted: 5/18/2017 10:07:50 PM EDT

[#32]

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Pigeon Hill isn't that bad. I've seen a few things that caught my attention....but I have no problem barking at people and correcting them. I'm always ROing everybody anyway at any range

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Really, last time I was there a friend was changing targets on the 100 yrd line and the people on the other side the 100 starting shooting at tier target. Was not pleased. They didnt see an issue since there was 2 opens lanes between us and them.

Ppl on the 25 yrd range were sweeping everyone also.

Posted: 5/19/2017 8:06:56 AM EDT

[#33]

The ONE match/event where I was swept the most was a LE match at CMMG many years back. In general those guys absolutely have the WORST safe gun handling skills, present company obviously excluded.

Posted: 5/19/2017 10:04:30 AM EDT

[#34]

Is the .50 BMG restriction due to limitations of the backstop/bullet trap or FUDD prejudice.

Also, who buys a .50 and takes it to a 100 yd range? Can't you sight it in at bench rest or in the national Forest?

Posted: 5/19/2017 12:18:16 PM EDT

[#35]

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Is the .50 BMG restriction due to limitations of the backstop/bullet trap or FUDD prejudice.

Also, who buys a .50 and takes it to a 100 yd range? Can't you sight it in at bench rest or in the national Forest?

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Has to be FUDD prejudice! When your backstop is a hill that goes for 100's of yards it's going to stop the round. Hell the backstops at Pigeon Hill would stop a 20mm.

Posted: 5/19/2017 1:43:26 PM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:
The ONE match/event where I was swept the most was a LE match at CMMG many years back. In general those guys absolutely have the WORST safe gun handling skills, present company obviously excluded.

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Last shoot I attended a shoot at CMMG was spent keeping an eye on my stuff and watching jackasses chasing plastic blocks up the back stop until they were shooting over the top. Completely oblivious to my comment to them.

Dirt clods near the top of the back stop were also popular.

The last time I went to a HTF gathering at Finger Lakes the day was finished by killing a large bucket of home brew tannerite with a .50 BMG. Blew the end out of the 100 yard backstop. Earlier that day a state park ranger came by from the campground next door asking about keeping the loud booms down, they were disturbing the campers.

Posted: 5/19/2017 8:47:14 PM EDT

[#37]

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When?

Summer begins in June.

Thanks

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Link to webcam on this page isn't working right now.

I looked about a month ago, didn't look even close to done. 30-36 month "temporary closure". Used to shoot there every other week. Don't like the rules but $3 for an hour is cheaper then $21 dollars at the indoor ranges. Also it's easier to collect my brass.

Posted: 5/20/2017 5:03:46 PM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:
The ONE match/event where I was swept the most was a LE match at CMMG many years back. In general those guys absolutely have the WORST safe gun handling skills, present company obviously excluded.

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Went to a Dept. of Corrections/LEO shoot at Green Valley with my brother once. I know what you're talking about there.

Had one guy in fully Gunny mode about EVERYTHING except all the muzzle sweeps.

It was far more important to him that you install a chamber flag into a gun going into a case than the near constant muzzle bumble-f*ckery going on behind the line of fire.

Private ranges are where it's at.

Posted: 5/20/2017 11:58:56 PM EDT

[#39]

Can anyone recommend a private range on the east side?

I was a member of the Sportsman's Cub in Jeff City, loved that place. Since I moved back to St Louis, I've gone to a couple of indoor ranges, but would really like to get some longer distances to shoot at.

Posted: 5/21/2017 5:09:50 AM EDT

[#40]

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Can anyone recommend a private range on the east side?

I was a member of the Sportsman's Cub in Jeff City, loved that place. Since I moved back to St Louis, I've gone to a couple of indoor ranges, but would really like to get some longer distances to shoot at.

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East St. Louis

Posted: 5/21/2017 8:46:47 AM EDT

[#41]

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Can anyone recommend a private range on the east side?

I was a member of the Sportsman's Cub in Jeff City, loved that place. Since I moved back to St Louis, I've gone to a couple of indoor ranges, but would really like to get some longer distances to shoot at.

View Quote

Arnold Rifle and Pistol Club will get you out to 100. 67 gun club will get you to 300 (I think).

Anything beyond that & you'll need to look at STL Benchrest.

Posted: 5/21/2017 10:46:43 AM EDT

[#42]

http://www.owensvillegunclub.org/

Posted: 5/26/2017 7:43:47 PM EDT

[#43]

ARPC in Arnold only goes to 100yds but rapid fire and even full auto is fine.
BRCSTL goes out to 1000 but no rapid fire except during matches.
At least was true a few years back.
Sometimes you can have a MDC range to yourself, some times you will get a self appointed range nazi and in the fall you get lines of deer hunters waiting their turn.

Posted: 5/26/2017 9:13:11 PM EDT

[#44]

Arnold Rifle & Pistol is expanding FYI, they are adding a 30 position 300+ yd range and adding a dozen new bays/combat pits.

Posted: 5/26/2017 11:08:35 PM EDT

[#45]

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Arnold Rifle & Pistol is expanding FYI, they are adding a 30 position 300+ yd range and adding a dozen new bays/combat pits.

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Dang, how are they pulling all of that off? Did they buy more land?

Posted: 5/26/2017 11:47:43 PM EDT

[#46]

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Dang, how are they pulling all of that off? Did they buy more land?

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I believe it's a combo of new land and cutting into the hillside. I don't go to the meetings, but their e-mail blast had a big list of things that got approved last year. Probably be quite awhile before it all gets done though.

Posted: 5/27/2017 4:28:44 PM EDT

[#47]

Thanks for all the suggestions on private ranges.

Arnold is the closest, so it's at the top of my list for now.

Posted: 5/27/2017 5:48:46 PM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

Quoted:
I believe it's a combo of new land and cutting into the hillside. I don't go to the meetings, but their e-mail blast had a big list of things that got approved last year. Probably be quite awhile before it all gets done though.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Dang, how are they pulling all of that off? Did they buy more land?

I believe it's a combo of new land and cutting into the hillside. I don't go to the meetings, but their e-mail blast had a big list of things that got approved last year. Probably be quite awhile before it all gets done though.

Well, good for them. My father was a member when they moved to that location & I grew up shooting there. Great club.

Posted: 5/28/2017 3:26:38 AM EDT

[#49]

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This is why I used to only go to the Pleasant Hope range in the Springfield Area until I joined a range.
Pleasant Hope is unstaffed and you can pretty much do what you want. I've never been bugged by anyone there.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I know the one just North of Springfield (Andy Dalton?) doesn't allow silhouette targets. I find this crazy as to qualify for CCW you have to shoot one based on State Law!

This is why I used to only go to the Pleasant Hope range in the Springfield Area until I joined a range.
Pleasant Hope is unstaffed and you can pretty much do what you want. I've never been bugged by anyone there.

A lot of people dislike the place, but I prefer the no hassle at Busiek. The benches go fast on the weekends, but I have no issue with sitting or proning out in the grass either.

Posted: 5/28/2017 1:03:46 PM EDT

[#50]

I've been going to Parma a couple times a month for the last five years and for me the only real drawbacks are the 100 yard maximum and no rapid fire. I do like that it's clean and safe and inexpensive. I exclusively shoot NFA items (SBR's and silencers) and haven't been given any grief yet.

If I want to shoot fast I go farther north to River Breaks which is MDC owned but unmanned. Only 100 yards there too though.

Are there any private ranges in the KCMO area with greater than 100 yard distances? I would love to join something like that if possible.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Well, it's official. The FUDDS (Democrats?) are running Missouri Dept. of Conservation Ranges..... (Page 1 of 2)

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