I have a sheriff, or possibly the sheriff's receptionist, as I have not actually been able to actually talk to the sheriff yet, telling some of my students that their training certificates have expired after 1 year. The student(s) went in to apply for a CCW permit and was told this by the receptionist/dispatcher.

The student contacted me, and I told him to get in contact with the sheriff himself. He was told the sheriff would call him back. I tried contacting the sheriff as well only to be told the same thing. The sheriff never contacted either of us. I called back and was again told he was not available and that the 1 year expiration "rule" was the sheriff's decision. At this point I asked to be directed to the statute that put an expiration on training or that gave the sheriff the authority to do so. I was told they had a call into the state, and that I would get a call back as soon as they heard back from the state. This was almost two weeks ago. I tried calling back this morning, and was told the sheriff would call me back, LOL.

I don't know if I am fighting the sheriff, or the receptionist. I am wondering if she just somehow got the one year thing in her head and is telling students this, and now she doesn't want to be proven wrong and not even giving the sheriff our messages. We had a problem with the front desk people in my county doing this last year, as soon as we got in contact with the chief deputy in charge of CCW, he grumbled and said "I guess I'll have to go set them straight again". Ever since then, we've had no problem here, or any other county. The Boone county sheriff even has this info posted in their FAQ page, when I pointed this out, the receptionist just said "we are not Boone county.

I don't encourage my students to wait a year before applying for a permit, but I do tell them that the certificate doesn't expire. I would just give the guy a free class, but he'd have to sit through another 8 hours, and I don't want to be giving away free classes to every student that this happens to.

Anyone have any advice on what routes I can pursue in order to resolve this issue? This county sheriff is about 45 minute drive for me, and I work six days a week (sometimes seven), so driving over there hoping to catch him in his office is not an option.

I'm not an instructor; just throwing a couple ideas out there.



 

My instructor across the river (I don't know the law in either state) told me my training was good for a year.  After that, I would need to re-train to apply for CCW.

I guess my stupid question is... If you want a CCW license and get the training, why the hell would you wait a year to apply?

As the statute is written now, the training and therefore the certificate never expire.  That obviously can change during any legislative session.

The sheriff needs to comply with the law.  He doesn't get to add burdensome requirements at his discretion.


As for why people wait...  I have had plenty of students that take the class and aren't sure if they want to carry.  I always encourage them to go ahead and get the permit even if they have no intention of carrying so they will have the option and to insulate themselves from law changes

ETA:  If you can't get the sheriff to talk to you, a certified letter from yourself or an attorney might be the next step.  Your students should apply and let them refuse in writing to issue and then they can sue in small claims.

I usually don't offer this info, but the question comes up in almost every class, and I'm not going to lie to my students.

Like I said, I don't encourage the waiting, but I know some students take the class, then need to save up the money to pay for the permit. I think some students take the class more for fun, or a thing to do with friends, and don't prioritize the going to apply.

This is covered under the current wording of the statute. But like previously mentioned, could change if the law is changed, but if they did that, it would piss a bunch of people off.

(7) Submits a photocopy of a certificate of firearms safety training course completion that was issued on August 27, 2011, or earlier so long as the certificate met the requirements of subsection 2 of this section that were in effect on the date it was issued.

2. A certificate of firearms safety training course completion may be issued to any applicant by any qualified firearms safety instructor. On the certificate of course completion the qualified firearms safety instructor shall affirm that the individual receiving instruction has taken and passed a firearms safety course of at least eight hours in length taught by the instructor that included:

(1) Handgun safety in the classroom, at home, on the firing range and while carrying the firearm;

(2) A physical demonstration performed by the applicant that demonstrated his or her ability to safely load and unload either a revolver or a semiautomatic pistol and demonstrated his or her marksmanship with either firearm;

(3) The basic principles of marksmanship;

(4) Care and cleaning of concealable firearms;

(5) Safe storage of firearms at home;

(6) The requirements of this state for obtaining a concealed carry permit from the sheriff of the individual's county of residence;

(7) The laws relating to firearms as prescribed in this chapter;

(8) The laws relating to the justifiable use of force as prescribed in chapter 563;

(9) A live firing exercise of sufficient duration for each applicant to fire either a revolver or a semiautomatic pistol, from a standing position or its equivalent, a minimum of twenty rounds from the handgun at a distance of seven yards from a B-27 silhouette target or an equivalent target;

(10) A live-fire test administered to the applicant while the instructor was present of twenty rounds from either a revolver or a semiautomatic pistol from a standing position or its equivalent at a distance from a B-27 silhouette target, or an equivalent target, of seven yards.

Good forever , or until the law is changed.

What county?

Which Department is it and why haven't you already told us?  Call your representative and senator and see if they will call for you.  Also, call the AG office.  This sheriff is now, attempting to prohibit the free exercise of a fundamental right, that the state is obligated to uphold.

The rights guaranteed by this section shall be unalienable. Any restriction on these rights shall be subject to strict scrutiny and the state of Missouri shall be obligated to uphold these rights and shall under no circumstances decline to protect against their infringement.

THIS^^



I'd raise some stink about this.   Please let the rest of us (instructors) know which county this is.



 

I haven't mentioned the county because I don't know if I am fighting the sheriff, or the "know it all" lady at the front desk. In past dealings with this sheriff, he has seemed a stand up guy. I don't want to fry him if this is not his doing. Like I said, I have not been able to (allowed?) to talk to him yet, and I don't know if he is just not returning my call, or if he is not receiving my messages from front desk lady that answers the phone who may not want to get proved wrong/get in trouble. I may be fighting the front desk lady's ego/attitude.

If it is the sheriff, yes, he needs to be dealt with and set straight by, well, us. If it is the lady, she needs to be dealt with by the sheriff. I was looking for advice on how to proceed, with the dilemma at hand, not start making accusations... yet. I am still trying to get things sorted out and I think the certified letter is the way to go. I will know for certain that the sheriff got the message. Will see how it goes after that.

Good luck getting any action from them. I had problems with Christian County and called and emailed everyone I could think of. Everyone kept passing the buck and didn't want to take responsibility for making him enforce the law. After 45 days he told me he didn't think I had a plan or even gave a class, but since I sent him the NRA Pistol Instructor video the liability was not on him anymore, good luck, I would need it, yadda yadda yadda.  

Of curse he's sitting in the Federal pen right now and I'm not, so .

Can you sort out me being charged $103 for mine too?

Same here.  I bet over 25% of my students don't get their CCW within a year of the training.

Hell some of my people have never gone to get their ccw.

I currently have a Marine recruiter that took my class back in 2012 and has since deployed at least once and has been stationed in other states since that time. He recently contacted me about turning in his form and getting the permit. He apparently still has his training form but it's the old version. I told him to go ahead and try turning it in and to let me know what happens. I'm still waiting to hear back from him.

I'm going to follow this closely because I know it's only a matter of time before one of my students contacts me about something similar to this.

Platte and Clay both charge like $98 or very close to it. They also have a sign up on the window that says a 2% or 3% fee will be added for credit card payments. I don't remember the exact numbers but I can confirm they do add a CC transaction fee.

Slight derail, sorry. My county sheriff's website says $130.50. In check or MO. Are they charging for fingerprints or something?

Hmmmm. I would be looking into that

This +1 Needs to be fixed Asap

So, I finally get a call back from the sheriff this morning. Of course, I'm already at work and unable to answer, so he leaves me a voicemail saying he's sorry, but the certificates do expire after one year, because the laws change every year. LOL! I tried to call him back at lunch, and of course, he wasn't available again. I asked if I could make an appointment to meet and speak with him in person, and was told only he makes his appointments. I am now waiting on a call back from the AG office. And I do believe I am going to send my student in to apply for his permit, regardless of what the lady at the front desk says. This way, the sheriff will have to deny the app in writing and we can take him to court.

Since I now know that I am actually fighting the sheriff on this, Saline county is where all this is going down. Sheriff Wally George is who I am dealing with.

Wow...  He is beyond wrong on this.

By his logic, a certificate issued at the beginning of August would be expired in less than a month because of law changes that month.  

An official rejection letter is exactly what is needed and while I understand and support your desire to get this straightened out for your students, it is ultimately their fight if it comes to legal action.

I know it is my students fight and not mine, but I do like to extend my help beyond just the class, and I always tell my students to let me know if I can help them with concealed carry (or guns in general) in the future. My county also borders this one, so I do get quite a few Saline county students. It might be in my best interest, as well, to help get this resolved.

This is illegal. Wonder how they are justifying this?

Hell yes. When/if they deny his application you should be able to file an appeal. Not sure how that's handled there but in Clay I believe the appeal is handled by a judge.

The denied applicant files suit in small claims court as outlined in the statute.

Op, you may want to forward a summary of the situation and the message left by the Sheriff to Kevin Jamison.  I am not suggesting you ask for help, but he likes to know about these things and may act on his own or be interested in assisting your student.  He has always been approachable in the past.

I called the sheriff's office and asked. The answer I got was that the statute say that they charge $100 for the sheriff's office and the ( now) $28.75 goes to the state for fingerprints and processing. If this is not right, I'll start another thread to deal with it so I don't derail this one further.

Thanks

Well, the Saline county sheriff actually called back this morning before I went to work. Actually an hour before I normally wake up. I think he did this on purpose.

Here is how the conversation went;

Me; Hello?

Sheriff; This is the Saline county sheriff, what is the name of the student you have been calling about?

Me; John Doe (not real name)

Sheriff; What?

Me; John.  D. o. e.

Sheriff; (In a annoyed, perturbed, rushed voice) Well, send him on in, and I'll take care of him, I don't have time to screw around with this, partner.

Me; Okayyyy?

I was half awake, wasn't able to really get another word in before,

Sheriff; Click, hangs up.

I don't like being called "partner" .
He was agitated .

I don't think I actually won here, but this student has a buddy, that he took my class with, who hasn't gone in to apply yet either. I think I'm going to have this second student wait a couple weeks before he goes in to apply. I don't want the sheriff to think I have it out for him and set this up on purpose. I do plan to send a copy of the Missouri statutes with both students, with the applicable sections/subsections highlighted. Like I said before, I haven't had any bad dealings with this Sheriff in the past, and have always heard good things about him. I just want to make sure my past/future students are able to get their permits according to the law.

Sooo the guy THINKS it is a violation of law to accept a certificate over a year old but has decided to accept one anyway for his convenience?

Interesting....

Joey Kyle of Christian County fame told me he did not think that I actually had a lesson plan (after I sent it to him. 3 times ... ) , but after he held my student up for 45 days, I sent him an email telling him it was now not ME he was violating, but his citizen. My student. He said :


After the 45 days, his deputy told me if I send them the NRA lesson plan that would work.

So, they are worried I "don't have a lesson plan" , but are going to give my student a permit anyway because I basically "told them what they wanted to hear" that day?

I did send him a response about 3 years later, after his little "spat" where he is doing time in club fed: