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[#1]
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[#2]
Quoted: No you didn't. You defended detaining 650 people without cause by quoting the death rate attributed to drunk driving. Logic being that the drunk driving habit of some legitimizes the detainment & search of others without probable cause. I simply asked you when you were going to apply the same logic based on the death rate attributed to firearms. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: How did it fall a part? I point out legal, tested and precedented detection techniques. You lob in a fear of 2nd Amendment supporters that has never occurred in MO. Please explain how your posting your thinly linked fears to an approved and vetted technique which you have never filed a court challenge to in MO relate? Or, show me in casenet where you have challenged it? No you didn't. You defended detaining 650 people without cause by quoting the death rate attributed to drunk driving. Logic being that the drunk driving habit of some legitimizes the detainment & search of others without probable cause. I simply asked you when you were going to apply the same logic based on the death rate attributed to firearms. Do you have case law that says I should? |
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[#3]
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[#4]
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Do you have case law that says I should? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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How did it fall a part? I point out legal, tested and precedented detection techniques. You lob in a fear of 2nd Amendment supporters that has never occurred in MO. Please explain how your posting your thinly linked fears to an approved and vetted technique which you have never filed a court challenge to in MO relate? Or, show me in casenet where you have challenged it? No you didn't. You defended detaining 650 people without cause by quoting the death rate attributed to drunk driving. Logic being that the drunk driving habit of some legitimizes the detainment & search of others without probable cause. I simply asked you when you were going to apply the same logic based on the death rate attributed to firearms. Do you have case law that says I should? That you should...what? |
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[#5]
Quoted: Actually we were discussing the checkpoint on 47. Were you there or do you just have thin skin? You're not going to put me on some secret list now are you? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Knock Knock... Hello? JAD762 I thought we we discussing my JBT ways??? Actually we were discussing the checkpoint on 47. Were you there or do you just have thin skin? You're not going to put me on some secret list now are you? Oh heck no. According to my DR, I'm the healthiest non-skinny guy he's ever met. Drives him insane that I can run and lift with the younger guys but still has a little "shadow over the belt", if you know what I mean... Wouldn't it be so cool if I could have a "secret list"? I mean, the possibilities are endless... Ok, truth be told I can't come up with anything for a secret list, but man, if I could... |
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[#6]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How did it fall a part? I point out legal, tested and precedented detection techniques. You lob in a fear of 2nd Amendment supporters that has never occurred in MO. Please explain how your posting your thinly linked fears to an approved and vetted technique which you have never filed a court challenge to in MO relate? Or, show me in casenet where you have challenged it? No you didn't. You defended detaining 650 people without cause by quoting the death rate attributed to drunk driving. Logic being that the drunk driving habit of some legitimizes the detainment & search of others without probable cause. I simply asked you when you were going to apply the same logic based on the death rate attributed to firearms. Do you have case law that says I should? That you should...what? |
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[#7]
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"apply the same logic based on the death rate attributed to firearms." View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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How did it fall a part? I point out legal, tested and precedented detection techniques. You lob in a fear of 2nd Amendment supporters that has never occurred in MO. Please explain how your posting your thinly linked fears to an approved and vetted technique which you have never filed a court challenge to in MO relate? Or, show me in casenet where you have challenged it? No you didn't. You defended detaining 650 people without cause by quoting the death rate attributed to drunk driving. Logic being that the drunk driving habit of some legitimizes the detainment & search of others without probable cause. I simply asked you when you were going to apply the same logic based on the death rate attributed to firearms. Do you have case law that says I should? That you should...what? Ah, so what you're saying is that since its legal, its right. Lets hope there's never a safe actesq law passed here. That will give you all the case law you need. |
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[#8]
Quoted: Ah, so what you're saying is that since its legal, its right. Lets hope there's never a safe actesq law passed here. That will give you all the case law you need. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: No you didn't. You defended detaining 650 people without cause by quoting the death rate attributed to drunk driving. Logic being that the drunk driving habit of some legitimizes the detainment & search of others without probable cause. I simply asked you when you were going to apply the same logic based on the death rate attributed to firearms. Do you have case law that says I should? That you should...what? Ah, so what you're saying is that since its legal, its right. Lets hope there's never a safe actesq law passed here. That will give you all the case law you need. I'm confused. How does "Do you have case law that says I should? " equate to if its legal, its right? That's the trap, see? If I say if its law, its right I'm a JBT. If I don't say that, then I agree that DUI checkpoints are bad. Neither applies to me. ETA: Of course I'm a JBT: I was referring to neither argument applies to me.
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[#9]
Quoted:
I'm confused. How does "Do you have case law that says I should? " equate to if its legal, its right? That's the trap, see? If I say if its law, its right I'm a JBT. If I don't say that, then I agree that DUI checkpoints are bad. Neither applies to me. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Do you have case law that says I should? That you should...what? Ah, so what you're saying is that since its legal, its right. Lets hope there's never a safe actesq law passed here. That will give you all the case law you need. I'm confused. How does "Do you have case law that says I should? " equate to if its legal, its right? That's the trap, see? If I say if its law, its right I'm a JBT. If I don't say that, then I agree that DUI checkpoints are bad. Neither applies to me. That's obvious. You supported the detainment of 650 people by quoting drunk driving stats. But you don't support detaining gun owners based on gun death stats. When asked why, you asked for case law...because case law is your standard of right and wrong, apparently. Don't get mad about where we find ourselves, you're the one that brought us here. |
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[#10]
Quoted: That's obvious. You supported the detainment of 650 people by quoting drunk driving stats. But you don't support detaining gun owners based on gun death stats. When asked why, you asked for case law...because case law is your standard of right and wrong, apparently. Don't get mad about where we find ourselves, you're the one that brought us here. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: "apply the same logic based on the death rate attributed to firearms." Ah, so what you're saying is that since its legal, its right. Lets hope there's never a safe actesq law passed here. That will give you all the case law you need. I'm confused. How does "Do you have case law that says I should? " equate to if its legal, its right? That's the trap, see? If I say if its law, its right I'm a JBT. If I don't say that, then I agree that DUI checkpoints are bad. Neither applies to me. That's obvious. You supported the detainment of 650 people by quoting drunk driving stats. But you don't support detaining gun owners based on gun death stats. When asked why, you asked for case law...because case law is your standard of right and wrong, apparently. Don't get mad about where we find ourselves, you're the one that brought us here. Nope, was referring to Eric's post. In regards to case law, it is what give me my authority to act. In regards to DUI Checkpoints, yes, yes I do believe they are right. As I stated earlier, why will all of you who are against it not change it? Clearly you have deep feelings about it. I'm sure your passion could win people over. Why will you not change the law? It clearly strikes a cord with you. Surely you can convince enough people that this law, as corrupt and illegal as you feel it is, is in fact wrong? Sorry, was checking the SCOMO Docket. Nope, no challenges http://www.courts.mo.gov/page.jsp?id=1977 DANG!!! Nothing on SCOTUS either! Why? Do it for the children damn it! http://www.scotusblog.com/events/ |
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[#11]
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Nope, was referring to Eric's post. In regards to case law, it is what give me my authority to act. In regards to DUI Checkpoints, yes, yes I do believe they are right. As I stated earlier, why will all of you who are against it not change it? Clearly you have deep feelings about it. I'm sure your passion could win people over. Why will you not change the law? It clearly strikes a cord with you. Surely you can convince enough people that this law, as corrupt and illegal as you feel it is, is in fact wrong? Sorry, was checking the SCOMO Docket. Nope, no challenges http://www.courts.mo.gov/page.jsp?id=1977 View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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"apply the same logic based on the death rate attributed to firearms." Ah, so what you're saying is that since its legal, its right. Lets hope there's never a safe actesq law passed here. That will give you all the case law you need. I'm confused. How does "Do you have case law that says I should? " equate to if its legal, its right? That's the trap, see? If I say if its law, its right I'm a JBT. If I don't say that, then I agree that DUI checkpoints are bad. Neither applies to me. That's obvious. You supported the detainment of 650 people by quoting drunk driving stats. But you don't support detaining gun owners based on gun death stats. When asked why, you asked for case law...because case law is your standard of right and wrong, apparently. Don't get mad about where we find ourselves, you're the one that brought us here. Nope, was referring to Eric's post. In regards to case law, it is what give me my authority to act. In regards to DUI Checkpoints, yes, yes I do believe they are right. As I stated earlier, why will all of you who are against it not change it? Clearly you have deep feelings about it. I'm sure your passion could win people over. Why will you not change the law? It clearly strikes a cord with you. Surely you can convince enough people that this law, as corrupt and illegal as you feel it is, is in fact wrong? Sorry, was checking the SCOMO Docket. Nope, no challenges http://www.courts.mo.gov/page.jsp?id=1977 Sadly, the ones who determined their legality were sitting on benches, not in congress. That does limit one's options. Hopefully the more police who see how counterproductive they are, the less they will be willing to do them. |
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[#12]
Quoted: Sadly, the ones who determined their legality were sitting on benches, not in congress. That does limit one's options. Hopefully the more police who see how counterproductive they are, the less they will be willing to do them. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That's obvious. You supported the detainment of 650 people by quoting drunk driving stats. But you don't support detaining gun owners based on gun death stats. When asked why, you asked for case law...because case law is your standard of right and wrong, apparently. Don't get mad about where we find ourselves, you're the one that brought us here. Nope, was referring to Eric's post. In regards to case law, it is what give me my authority to act. In regards to DUI Checkpoints, yes, yes I do believe they are right. As I stated earlier, why will all of you who are against it not change it? Clearly you have deep feelings about it. I'm sure your passion could win people over. Why will you not change the law? It clearly strikes a cord with you. Surely you can convince enough people that this law, as corrupt and illegal as you feel it is, is in fact wrong? Sorry, was checking the SCOMO Docket. Nope, no challenges http://www.courts.mo.gov/page.jsp?id=1977 Sadly, the ones who determined their legality were sitting on benches, not in congress. That does limit one's options. Hopefully the more police who see how counterproductive they are, the less they will be willing to do them. Problem is, there's more than a little bit of a huge jump when it comes to DUI checkpoints and house to house firearms confiscation. You may not agree, but for most this is the case. |
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[#13]
Quoted:
No you didn't. You defended detaining 650 people without cause by quoting the death rate attributed to drunk driving. Logic being that the drunk driving habit of some legitimizes the detainment & search of others without probable cause. I simply asked you when you were going to apply the same logic based on the death rate attributed to firearms. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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How did it fall a part? I point out legal, tested and precedented detection techniques. You lob in a fear of 2nd Amendment supporters that has never occurred in MO. Please explain how your posting your thinly linked fears to an approved and vetted technique which you have never filed a court challenge to in MO relate? Or, show me in casenet where you have challenged it? No you didn't. You defended detaining 650 people without cause by quoting the death rate attributed to drunk driving. Logic being that the drunk driving habit of some legitimizes the detainment & search of others without probable cause. I simply asked you when you were going to apply the same logic based on the death rate attributed to firearms. Big difference, the 2nd Amendment is a RIGHT protected by the full force of the U.S. Constitution. Driving has been ruled by the SCOTUS and all 50 State Supreme Courts that driving is a PRIVILEGE. |
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[#14]
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Big difference, the 2nd Amendment is a RIGHT protected by the full force of the U.S. Constitution. Driving has been ruled by the SCOTUS and all 50 State Supreme Courts that driving is a PRIVILEGE. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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How did it fall a part? I point out legal, tested and precedented detection techniques. You lob in a fear of 2nd Amendment supporters that has never occurred in MO. Please explain how your posting your thinly linked fears to an approved and vetted technique which you have never filed a court challenge to in MO relate? Or, show me in casenet where you have challenged it? No you didn't. You defended detaining 650 people without cause by quoting the death rate attributed to drunk driving. Logic being that the drunk driving habit of some legitimizes the detainment & search of others without probable cause. I simply asked you when you were going to apply the same logic based on the death rate attributed to firearms. Big difference, the 2nd Amendment is a RIGHT protected by the full force of the U.S. Constitution. Driving has been ruled by the SCOTUS and all 50 State Supreme Courts that driving is a PRIVILEGE. Police verifying the legality of guns is not legally a 2A violation. |
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[#15]
Quoted: Big difference, the 2nd Amendment is a RIGHT protected by the full force of the U.S. Constitution. Driving has been ruled by the SCOTUS and all 50 State Supreme Courts that driving is a PRIVILEGE. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How did it fall a part? I point out legal, tested and precedented detection techniques. You lob in a fear of 2nd Amendment supporters that has never occurred in MO. Please explain how your posting your thinly linked fears to an approved and vetted technique which you have never filed a court challenge to in MO relate? Or, show me in casenet where you have challenged it? No you didn't. You defended detaining 650 people without cause by quoting the death rate attributed to drunk driving. Logic being that the drunk driving habit of some legitimizes the detainment & search of others without probable cause. I simply asked you when you were going to apply the same logic based on the death rate attributed to firearms. Big difference, the 2nd Amendment is a RIGHT protected by the full force of the U.S. Constitution. Driving has been ruled by the SCOTUS and all 50 State Supreme Courts that driving is a PRIVILEGE. True. Although you will have Sovereign Citizens argue interference with interstate commerce. Badly argued, but still. However, your point is valid and relevant to the discussion. |
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[#16]
Wow, looks like the cops are always right too...
I'm sure to be on the secret list now. |
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[#17]
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[#18]
Quoted: I'm not a cop, but I am always right. Just ask me, I'll be honest. My father's a cop. Maybe I got it from him. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Wow, looks like the cops are always right too... I'm sure to be on the secret list now. I'm not a cop, but I am always right. Just ask me, I'll be honest. My father's a cop. Maybe I got it from him. You are all wrong. My wife is right. Don't bother to ask. She is. |
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[#19]
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You are all wrong. My wife is right. Don't bother to ask. She is. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Wow, looks like the cops are always right too... I'm sure to be on the secret list now. I'm not a cop, but I am always right. Just ask me, I'll be honest. My father's a cop. Maybe I got it from him. You are all wrong. My wife is right. Don't bother to ask. She is. There's a technical term for people that disagree with me. It is "wrong." Just ask my kids. Though wives have a habit of always being right too. |
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[#20]
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You are all wrong. My wife is right. Don't bother to ask. She is. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Wow, looks like the cops are always right too... I'm sure to be on the secret list now. I'm not a cop, but I am always right. Just ask me, I'll be honest. My father's a cop. Maybe I got it from him. You are all wrong. My wife is right. Don't bother to ask. She is. I had a wife once....she though the same thing |
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[#21]
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You are all wrong. My wife is right. Don't bother to ask. She is. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Wow, looks like the cops are always right too... I'm sure to be on the secret list now. I'm not a cop, but I am always right. Just ask me, I'll be honest. My father's a cop. Maybe I got it from him. You are all wrong. My wife is right. Don't bother to ask. She is. I had a wife once....she though the same thing |
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[#22]
Quoted: I had a wife once....she though the same thing View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wow, looks like the cops are always right too... I'm sure to be on the secret list now. I'm not a cop, but I am always right. Just ask me, I'll be honest. My father's a cop. Maybe I got it from him. You are all wrong. My wife is right. Don't bother to ask. She is. I had a wife once....she though the same thing But see, I can't do that. She's LE, so she's a JBT too. And, according to her Krav Maga instructor, she can kick my ass. Let me use different terms. She once told me if I ever cheated, she would rabbit punch me in my ball sack, then throat punch me to extract my nads, crush them, then smear them on Keebler crackers and eat em. Nope. Looks like I'm a lifer. |
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[#25]
Quoted:
No you didn't. You defended detaining 650 people without cause by quoting the death rate attributed to drunk driving. Logic being that the drunk driving habit of some legitimizes the detainment & search of others without probable cause. I simply asked you when you were going to apply the same logic based on the death rate attributed to firearms. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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How did it fall a part? I point out legal, tested and precedented detection techniques. You lob in a fear of 2nd Amendment supporters that has never occurred in MO. Please explain how your posting your thinly linked fears to an approved and vetted technique which you have never filed a court challenge to in MO relate? Or, show me in casenet where you have challenged it? No you didn't. You defended detaining 650 people without cause by quoting the death rate attributed to drunk driving. Logic being that the drunk driving habit of some legitimizes the detainment & search of others without probable cause. I simply asked you when you were going to apply the same logic based on the death rate attributed to firearms. The answer is obvious. One dau after SCOTUS rules it constitutional. |
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[#26]
What I've learned from this thread is that there are a number of Missouri arfcommers who will happily confiscate any and all guns from Missouri citizens as soon as the legislature can pass a 100% confiscation law that the Supreme Court agrees to be constitutional.
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[#27]
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What I've learned from this thread is that there are a number of Missouri arfcommers who will happily confiscate any and all guns from Missouri citizens as soon as the legislature can pass a 100% confiscation law that the Supreme Court agrees to be constitutional. View Quote That is one of, if not the STUPIDEST statements I've ever seen posted here |
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[#28]
Quoted: That is one of, if not the STUPIDEST statements I've ever seen posted here View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: What I've learned from this thread is that there are a number of Missouri arfcommers who will happily confiscate any and all guns from Missouri citizens as soon as the legislature can pass a 100% confiscation law that the Supreme Court agrees to be constitutional. That is one of, if not the STUPIDEST statements I've ever seen posted here |
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[#29]
Quoted: You I personally know so I wouldn't worry. But some others, with what they've written, ... I just don't know. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What I've learned from this thread is that there are a number of Missouri arfcommers who will happily confiscate any and all guns from Missouri citizens as soon as the legislature can pass a 100% confiscation law that the Supreme Court agrees to be constitutional. That is one of, if not the STUPIDEST statements I've ever seen posted here Not sure if the reference at me or not...being narcissistic it's sometimes hard to tell if it's about me when after all its all about me... It will be interesting to see if anyone goes out of their way to convince you they wont. Won't be me. Not because I would, but as stated previously I don't care if people think I would nor not |
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[#30]
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That is one of, if not the STUPIDEST statements I've ever seen posted here View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What I've learned from this thread is that there are a number of Missouri arfcommers who will happily confiscate any and all guns from Missouri citizens as soon as the legislature can pass a 100% confiscation law that the Supreme Court agrees to be constitutional. That is one of, if not the STUPIDEST statements I've ever seen posted here Wrong. It's actually a pretty logical assessment based upon the posts in this thread. Go back and read the thread. |
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[#31]
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Wrong. It's actually a pretty logical assessment based upon the posts in this thread. Go back and read the thread. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What I've learned from this thread is that there are a number of Missouri arfcommers who will happily confiscate any and all guns from Missouri citizens as soon as the legislature can pass a 100% confiscation law that the Supreme Court agrees to be constitutional. That is one of, if not the STUPIDEST statements I've ever seen posted here Wrong. It's actually a pretty logical assessment based upon the posts in this thread. Go back and read the thread. Does not take an inductive genius to see this. The entire argument for these checkpoints is based on fear of harm (perception of enhanced safety) and that it was ruled constitutional. DUI cjeckpoint, as a concept, could be swapped out for any number of actions, including gun confiscation, and the same arguments/logic could be applied, immediately following a SCOTUS ruling. My immediate family has not impacted by drunk driving, but there have been tragedies that could have been prevented by living in a police state. Yet, somehow I still believe in freedom, and that the 4th says what it clearly says, in plain English, and does not contain an exception clause. There is a cost to freedom, but the alternative is much worse. I realize cops see some awful shit, but that also can create a bubble mentality that can be used to justify infringements of all sorts. |
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[#32]
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You I personally know so I wouldn't worry. But some others, with what they've written, ... I just don't know. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What I've learned from this thread is that there are a number of Missouri arfcommers who will happily confiscate any and all guns from Missouri citizens as soon as the legislature can pass a 100% confiscation law that the Supreme Court agrees to be constitutional. That is one of, if not the STUPIDEST statements I've ever seen posted here I don't think I know any of our arfcomm cops. I'm confident that they are all good, upstanding people. But, I've grown up around cops. And while most won't admit it, they just do what the law tells them to do. Want proof? There are very few cops in the world that won't confiscate a gun now if they're legally able to. Ever been pulled over for speeding and have the cop confiscate your CCW for the duration of the stop & run its serial number? I have several times. Remember this thread where the cops confiscated all the guns of a dead guy instead of waiting for family to secure them? If a guy convicted of a felony 20 years ago was caught up in the checkpoint with a .22 in his back seat, do you think he'd be let go with a nod or do you think the cops would have taken his .22? So the question of whether or not a cop will confiscate guns in the event of a ban is a silly question IMO. Cops already confiscate all the guns they're legally allowed to. If they were allowed to confiscate more, it only stands to reason that they would. Past behavior is a great predictor of future behavior. |
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[#33]
Quoted:
What I've learned from this thread is that there are a number of Missouri arfcommers who will happily confiscate any and all guns from Missouri citizens as soon as the legislature can pass a 100% confiscation law that the Supreme Court agrees to be constitutional. View Quote Agreed. |
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[#34]
I venture to say I've probably done more to fight for the Second Amendment than most of the naysayers here together.
I'm currently an NRA Endowment Member who is upgrading to NRA Patron, I've donated quite a bit to the NRA-ILA over the years. It's one hell of a reach from DWI Checkpoints to firearms seizure. Put your tin foil hats back on |
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[#35]
Quoted: I venture to say I've probably done more to fight for the Second Amendment than most of the naysayers here together. I'm currently an NRA Endowment Member who is upgrading to NRA Patron, I've donated quite a bit to the NRA-ILA over the years. It's one hell of a reach from DWI Checkpoints to firearms seizure. Put your tin foil hats back on View Quote Meh. I no more feel the need to prove my intent here than I need to join the Oath Keepers. Years have proven that conspiracy loves company, and the vacancy sign is out 24/7 at ARFCOM. Now back to something really important. Trying to find a pumpkin in minecraft. My kid and I need to make an ice gollum. |
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[#36]
Wow, what a shitshow this could have been(or still might be). Thanks all for not devolving to the poo-flinging levels we've seen in the past.
I can say I do know police who wouldn't have any problem enforcing a confiscation order, but they are people I haven't and probably wouldn't want to shoot with. I also know police(not cops) who have said when that day comes they're taking off the badge. I've heard other police(my dad told me long ago not to call them cops as that is derogatory-"coppers!")say they will stay on the force and refuse to enforce an unconstitutional order of confiscation. I suppose that last group could be helpful in sabotaging any such legislation, but the whole thing seems like a road we don't want to travel. Anyway, Wife is talking so I have to put attention elsewhere at the moment. She's right about something, I need to figure out what it is this time. |
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[#37]
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[#38]
Quoted: Wow, what a shitshow this could have been(or still might be). Thanks all for not devolving to the poo-flinging levels we've seen in the past. I can say I do know police who wouldn't have any problem enforcing a confiscation order, but they are people I haven't and probably wouldn't want to shoot with. I also know police(not cops) who have said when that day comes they're taking off the badge. I've heard other police(my dad told me long ago not to call them cops as that is derogatory-"coppers!")say they will stay on the force and refuse to enforce an unconstitutional order of confiscation. I suppose that last group could be helpful in sabotaging any such legislation, but the whole thing seems like a road we don't want to travel. Anyway, Wife is talking so I have to put attention elsewhere at the moment. She's right about something, I need to figure out what it is this time. View Quote This tells me you actually spoke to an officer |
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[#39]
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[#40]
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[#42]
Quoted:
They had another one last night View Quote Yea, but we had it all over FB and Twitter. Everyone took the other way! Fuck those muther-fuckers. If they would have been patrolling the roads they would have seen the shitty driving and got people the old fashioned way. When they broke the law. |
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