[TLDR version: neigbor finds dad dead (naturally), police come take him and all his guns away, safe was unlocked, dad has no will, dad was single, only kids me and my sister, two of us go to station to get guns, get told we can't have them]

ETA, went in this AM and the cleo gave them over to us.  


I don't want to seem callous, I am trying to get to the point where maybe someone can help us.  My sister and I both came in from out of state.  We have been busier than I could imaging looking through his papers and making arrangements, securing his stuff etc.  I never realized how much work it takes following this.  

So a few days ago I get a terrible call from my sister informing me that Dad died unexpectedly in his garage.  It appears that he basically fell over dead suddenly police are ruling it natual as there wer no signs of a struggle and nothing appears to have been stolen.  his house, garage and gun safe all sat there open/unlocked for a couple days till a neigbor came by and found him...

By the time they called my sister, I think they had already taken all the guns because when they finally got him out of there the neigbors said they all left quickly.  They didn't offer to lock them in the safe or give us a chance to get my aunt over there.  They searched the whole house and found a copule guns under his pillows.  

My sister and I, the only kids my long divorced dad and mom ever had, both went to the police station the other day, they gave us his keys, answered questions.  One of them asked if we were the only heirs, if he had any "wives, exwives."  We told him that dad had been divorced for decades and we were the only kids.   I can't remember if he ever asked if there was a will or not (there is not unfortunately).   Then, when I expect them to bring out the stuff so we can go, they say they won't give us the stuff they they get some paper from a judge.  


I called a close freind of my dads from another department, he said he was surprised that they didn't give them to us since we were both present to cliam them, says usuallly property is given to th efamily.  Says doesn't know why guns woudl be differnt.

The funeral home guy is a gunonwer and knows the coroner, who was there, maybe former police, he heard about the guns and asked if we got them back, was surprised that we didn't.  The funeral guy calls the coroner and s ays the coroner was surporised that we weren't given them.  

My dad's freind called the detective.   He said the detective seemed sympathatic band might try to talk to the head guy.  I was there agin today w/ some FFL paperwork I wanted to see if they wanted (they took his FFL log book) and I talked to that higher ranking guy again and he and he said that same thing agin, said he was doing us a favor cause they woulda got sotlen that night, says that you hathey have to get something from a probate judge, "especially with firearms."

that lask sttatement I qoted there, it makes me feel like he is being arbitrary...

Is it leagal for them to have done this?  Is it legal for them to hold this like this?  


A few ARs, w/ optics mounted, cocuple handguns, one of the guns had a PVS14!

Damn. Sorry to hear about your Dad.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they might take any unsecured firearms pending any kind if investigation. At least until they can confirm it was due to natural causes. Police should and will treat the house as a possible crime scene until it's verified otherwise.

I think you should ask for an "inventory list" of everything they took. Surly they would have documented anything removed from the house. If there isn't an inventory document of some sort I would be contacting an attorney ASAP. I would also go ahead and call and set up an appointment with the investigator in charge and the Chief/assistant chief(or whoever the highest ranking officer is that is available) and ask them to simply explain the process and how you can go about getting your dads guns and stuff back. They will probably explain the why/when/how of handling the situation.

I wouldn't worry about it to much. You will get his stuff back.

What city was this in if you don't mind me asking?

Your dad was an FFL? That changes things a bit, don't you think? If your father was an FFL you should call the ATF and ask how to proceed.

I would do exactly what they did and take the guns with them to secure them.... think about if they locked it in the safe and you didn't have the combo..... not good.

The probate thing doesn't surprise me either.... lawyers have really complicated the job in a lot of ways..... believe me you have no idea my policy manual for work is about 6 inches thick.  Liability Liability Liability. Think about if they gave you 100k in guns that was supposed to go to someone else according to the will.. Agencies are worried about that kinda liability and get forced into these kinda deals by city and county attorneys.

They should just sit in the evidence locker until you get paperwork from the probate court.

Not sure where your at in the state or what size agency.... It could be a great dept or it could be a bunch of bubbas.... all depends.

Location/dept of firearms?

What other privately owned contents of the house would you have taken to secure?

Lawyer, lawyer, lawyer.

Unless you can find some sort trust that your dad executed (hopefully naming you and or you and o yourr sister as trustees) you and your bank account ar going to get to know an estate attorney really well. Check any investment and bank account statements and see how they are titled. That may give you a clue.

Minus that you're going to have to petition the probate court to be named executor of the estate. Then you can try and get a court order to get your stuff back.

Good luck and get a lawyer.

I m not a lawyer so take what I say with a grain of salt.

ETA I'd also take a copy of the death certificate down to your local recorder of deeds and see if maybe Dad filed some sort of transfer on death deed on the house.

Very sorry to hear that your father passed. Please post up the Agency that holds your father's property for safekeeping. There are a lot of current and former LEO's on this forum who might be able to directly or indirectly help you to recover the weapons.

 
This (more or less)

OP....are you in MO?  If so, which department.  You don't need a lawyer and can do this yourself.  writ of replevin is what you need.  Did you talk to the Chief or Sheriff?

A Buddy of mine I have known my entire life had a warrant served on his home for Cyber Crimes (video piracy) they battering rammed his door, left all the windows up with everything piled in the floors and any guns in the house were laid out on the bed in front of an open window and the door was unsecured when he got home...

So apparently ALL LE will not secure firearms.. pending investigation....

Are you serious? Are we talking like downloading movies illegally? Sounds fucked up to get your door kicked for that kind of thing....although I'm guessing there could be more to the story.

I hope OP comes back and gives us the low down....

Serious. Music and Movies...

Jesus Christ....I have some friends that need to hide their dogs then

hey, ive been awfully busy.  we met w the detective last week, he was sympathetic, as was the coroner who was surprised they didnt release the property to us both being present.  Butsome other guy superior to the detective is not sympathetic or ebven antagonistic.  

another one of my dads friends is friends w the CLEO and he called him at home over the weekend.  we have an appt w the CLEO in the AM.  they way my dads friend was talking, it was a done deal, we are just going to get them, but I dont want to get my hopes up.   we will see.

as to it being a crimes scene, they released the body right to a private funerral home, ruled it natural causes an didnt see any signs of theft of guns, money, or narcotics in the house.  He has been creamated, we didnt have a choice with his condition.  

as to the ffl, he just got it.  he only sold two guns since then (home ffl).  all the guns they took were personal firearms owned years before the ffl and decades after the divorce.


i dont want to release the agency publically.  If i have further difficulties w this ill PM some of you i guesss.  thx everyone.

ill google this i guess.  we have an apppt w an atty later mon, have to meet w him regardless of what happens w the guns.

it is in MO.

You should still contact the ATF as part of the process of closing out his affairs. If nothing else, they'll probably ask you to send his log in to the out of business records center.

we will do that asap  for sure, if we dont get a call first.  i am going to post up in the ffl sub about it.

we went in this AM and got them back as planned. thx guys for all your help

So what did they say?  Why the delay and what was with the dirtbag who didn't want to release them?

Glad you got them back, but usually it takes a probate letter from a judge for firearms. That is how police departments ensure they are not giving firearms to prohibited persons, like convicted felons, etc.

Good news! Thanks for updating us. I have been wondering what happened with all this.

they background checked my sister and i.  i think that is just a bs reason police give who dont want guns out there in the hands of civilians so that the police can get home at the end of the night or whatever.  

the cleo said he was just concerned about a crazy ex wife or something but i guess wa sassured that the guns were all long long after any divorces.

nothing he just got overruled by the cleo thankfully.  luckily my dad was well regarded and had various friends who were friends of the detective and cleo or mmaybe it would of went different.


lesson: dont leave your safe unlocked unecessarily when you live alone in case you stroke out or fall off a ladder or whatever.  dad would have been so pissed about that happening to such a significant element of our patrimony.

Not only that, but there is a civil component to it also.  How do they know which family member is entitled to the property of the deceased.  If they give them to son and daughter later claims she is the rightfull heir...now you have problems.

Sounds like you made out incredibly well OP given the circumstances. When I read this thread when you first posted it and my first thought was it would end up going to court. With no will or any other type of legal document saying where he wanted his stuff to go, at least not one I saw you mention, it amazes me that they gave the guns to you with little hassle/delay.

 
I'd say its more the norm.  We made the mistake once, once of releasing weapons to an individual who was a family member only to find out he was a convicted felon and absconded with same weapons.


Current procedure?  If a death of natural causes is involved and there are weapons unsecured, they are taken, entered into evidence (no, we do not engrave them) and await the probate/court documentation as previously stated.  Once they are in hand, the person is record checked to be sure they are not a felon, and then released.  


If they are in a locked safe, civil issue.  As stated, yet another good reason to keep your s#$t locked up.

No.  Nobody gives a shit about the dishes and the ratty couch. They secure the guns so some dickhead neighbor or next of kin doesn't break in and take them before the affairs are managed.  I've seen it help far more often than it hurts and it's better to get them to who is entitled to them.  Even if that means they have to wait a little while.

So . . .  coin collections, bullion stash, jewelry, etc.?

Don't ask me, I'm no lawyer. But I don't think a will has to be anything special. So long as it is worded correctly and signed by you and a public notary. For guns I would consult a lawyer, like I did for my NFA trust. What if a person you listed can't take them legally? Is there a backup plan?

Not LEOs job or problem, that's for a probate court to decide, LE had no business holding these guns.