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Big-Boy
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Posted: 4/23/2013 8:58:45 PM
[Last Edit: 7/6/2013 11:09:50 AM by Big-Boy]

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
Bill text:
http://www.house.mo.gov/billtracking/bills131/billpdf/intro/HB0436I.PDF

Edit:

Witness form link removed, that was only good for the committee hearing.

Bill is now going to full Senate. Hearing scheduled 4/29/13
Gascozark
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Posted: 4/23/2013 10:42:26 PM
Testimony submitted. I tried to not make it too lengthy.

The importance of Second Amendment Preservation Act cannot be overstated. The citizens of Missouri deserve the protection, from an over-reaching Federal Government, that this bill will provide. For too long have the bureaucrats in Washington DC trampled, watered-down, and flat out ignored the United States Constitution and the freedoms that the sacred document guarantees the citizens of our great nation. The time has come for the individual states to speak out, through legislation like the Second Amendment Preservation Act, to Washington DC and let them know that the rights and liberties guaranteed by the U.S. and Missouri Constitutions are as important to us now as when our Founding Fathers penned them so many years ago.

thefreshman991
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Posted: 4/23/2013 11:01:47 PM
Hit it.

Added my thoughts.
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Great men are almost always bad men." - Baron Acton
mikeak
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Posted: 4/23/2013 11:04:36 PM
filled one out earlier today
Predator_CAR15
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Posted: 4/23/2013 11:05:15 PM
[Last Edit: 4/23/2013 11:05:39 PM by Predator_CAR15]
Predator_CAR15
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Posted: 4/23/2013 11:17:14 PM
[Last Edit: 4/23/2013 11:17:38 PM by Predator_CAR15]
Originally Posted By Predator_CAR15:As Californian I know what it's like to come from a state with strict gun-control measures. With the ever-growing threat of an overreaching federal bureaucracy. With legislation and the loss of more of our liberties this is a must pass bill. This will ensure future generations of Americans living in Missouri and Missourians that their Second Amendment rights are secured and honored by the state of Missouri. We need to go the opposite direction of such states like Colorado, New Jersey, New York, and California. Let's send a message to Washington and the rest of the country to say that our Second Amendment rights shall not be tampered with. Any further infringements undermine our right to keep and bear arms.this legislation will only save lives and make people safer. Personally I hope enjoy these liberties within my lifetime and this bill will make it a reality, and the only reason I wont become a FFL dealer or gun smith is because of the ATF and having to deal with them. They have an awful history just look at atfabuse.com this legislation will allow private individuals to be gunsmiths and open their own business on their own accord.there's nothing but positive business aspects of this bill as well.

Sheddy
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Posted: 4/23/2013 11:41:14 PM
So I'm not attending the hearing or anything can I fill out this witness form still?
Sheddy
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Posted: 4/23/2013 11:54:19 PM
I did it anyway here is my post:

"As an 8th generation American and Missourian whose family arrived in this State even before its founding, I take great pride and interest in seeing this bill move forward. My interest stems not from laws being rewritten, but from an effort to defend the Constitution of the United States as it was written and intended. Legislators and judges have continued to pervert and corrupt the Bill of Rights and this effort to draw a line in the sand, to protect the rights American citizens have had since their first breath, renews my faith that the elected representatives of Missouri are truly concerned about the rights and well being of the citizens. I strongly urge the passage of this bill for the sake of past, present, and future generations to let it be known that free people shall always be free."
Festus_Hagen
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Posted: 4/24/2013 12:18:02 AM
[Last Edit: 4/24/2013 12:18:43 AM by Festus_Hagen]
Originally Posted By Sheddy:
So I'm not attending the hearing or anything can I fill out this witness form still?


Yes, a good idea, and you did fine in yours.

I hope this passes . It will be a huge boost for Mo. Some reps have already started courting some industries ( like Magpul and some other business' that are being shut down , although by choice in some cases ) by the very government that rolls in that tax money. I would like to see it come to Mo .
Sheddy
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Posted: 4/24/2013 12:31:00 AM
How many freedom sears will be made in one day?
wheelchairman
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Posted: 4/24/2013 1:08:15 AM
Originally Posted By Sheddy:
How many freedom sears will be made in one day?


You gonna be the legal test dummy?
Or the legal liability when said pissed off to high holy fuck badger comes crashing down. It would be like the unplanned rectal abortion of satan himself raining down upon someone. There would be....ramifications. --PeteCO
ak4784
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Posted: 4/24/2013 1:34:40 AM
Originally Posted By wheelchairman:
Originally Posted By Sheddy:
How many freedom sears will be made in one day?


You gonna be the legal test dummy?


Doesn't matter if it's him or not, somebody will be...and hopefully there will be an overwhelming number of people who decide to taste freedom.
ZMBKL_N
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Posted: 4/24/2013 1:36:47 AM
Originally Posted By ak4784:
Originally Posted By wheelchairman:
Originally Posted By Sheddy:
How many freedom sears will be made in one day?


You gonna be the legal test dummy?


Doesn't matter if it's him or not, somebody will be...and hopefully there will be an overwhelming number of people who decide to taste freedom.


THIS.

If enough of us do it... Ain't much they can do about it.

Si vis pacem para bellum.
wheelchairman
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Posted: 4/24/2013 2:02:54 AM
Originally Posted By ZMBKL_N:
Originally Posted By ak4784:
Originally Posted By wheelchairman:
Originally Posted By Sheddy:
How many freedom sears will be made in one day?


You gonna be the legal test dummy?


Doesn't matter if it's him or not, somebody will be...and hopefully there will be an overwhelming number of people who decide to taste freedom.


THIS.

If enough of us do it... Ain't much they can do about it.



Only option we have I think

Or the legal liability when said pissed off to high holy fuck badger comes crashing down. It would be like the unplanned rectal abortion of satan himself raining down upon someone. There would be....ramifications. --PeteCO
ZMBKL_N
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Posted: 4/24/2013 2:25:27 AM
Originally Posted By wheelchairman:
Originally Posted By ZMBKL_N:
Originally Posted By ak4784:
Originally Posted By wheelchairman:
Originally Posted By Sheddy:
How many freedom sears will be made in one day?


You gonna be the legal test dummy?


Doesn't matter if it's him or not, somebody will be...and hopefully there will be an overwhelming number of people who decide to taste freedom.


THIS.

If enough of us do it... Ain't much they can do about it.



Only option we have I think



I have my blueprints ready.
Si vis pacem para bellum.
JC10311
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Posted: 4/24/2013 10:00:56 AM
[Last Edit: 4/24/2013 10:15:31 AM by JC10311]
So, let's assume that this becomes law and someone tests it. Who pays for their legal defense? Will the State Police stand between you and the Feds when they come? The only way states are getting away with legalizing pot is because Hussein has decided it's not worth his time to enforce Federal law. I suspect that time would be found to make an example of anyone attempting to use state gun laws to override federal gun laws.

I really appreciate and support the intent, and it certainly sends a strong message, but I'm not going to be the test case.

ETA: Witness form filed. I suspect that I'll get flamed for this.

"I support this legislation because it sends a strong message to the Federal Government that the people of Missouri will not tolerate the destruction of our rights. Unfortunately, unless the State of Missouri also accepts responsibility for defending its citizens when Federal Agents arrive at their door and provides for legal representation when the citizen is charged, then this is little more than a hollow threat. I, for one, will not be a test case for the supremacy clause without the commitment of the State of Missouri to stand by my side.

May I respectfully suggest that any legislator who believes that this bill would protect Missouri citizens from Federal prosecution should openly defy the Federal law and lead by example."
The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism.
Karl Marx [Sound like anyone you know???]
Sheddy
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Posted: 4/24/2013 1:40:33 PM
Originally Posted By JC10311:
So, let's assume that this becomes law and someone tests it. Who pays for their legal defense? Will the State Police stand between you and the Feds when they come? The only way states are getting away with legalizing pot is because Hussein has decided it's not worth his time to enforce Federal law. I suspect that time would be found to make an example of anyone attempting to use state gun laws to override federal gun laws.

I really appreciate and support the intent, and it certainly sends a strong message, but I'm not going to be the test case.

ETA: Witness form filed. I suspect that I'll get flamed for this.

"I support this legislation because it sends a strong message to the Federal Government that the people of Missouri will not tolerate the destruction of our rights. Unfortunately, unless the State of Missouri also accepts responsibility for defending its citizens when Federal Agents arrive at their door and provides for legal representation when the citizen is charged, then this is little more than a hollow threat. I, for one, will not be a test case for the supremacy clause without the commitment of the State of Missouri to stand by my side.

May I respectfully suggest that any legislator who believes that this bill would protect Missouri citizens from Federal prosecution should openly defy the Federal law and lead by example."


Its saying federal law is trumped by the Constitution. Technically all levels of government are responsible for protecting the Constitution.
thefreshman991
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Posted: 4/24/2013 2:21:14 PM
I'll test the crap out of it.

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Great men are almost always bad men." - Baron Acton
JC10311
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Posted: 4/24/2013 2:23:29 PM
Originally Posted By Sheddy:
Originally Posted By JC10311:
So, let's assume that this becomes law and someone tests it. Who pays for their legal defense? Will the State Police stand between you and the Feds when they come? The only way states are getting away with legalizing pot is because Hussein has decided it's not worth his time to enforce Federal law. I suspect that time would be found to make an example of anyone attempting to use state gun laws to override federal gun laws.

I really appreciate and support the intent, and it certainly sends a strong message, but I'm not going to be the test case.

ETA: Witness form filed. I suspect that I'll get flamed for this.

"I support this legislation because it sends a strong message to the Federal Government that the people of Missouri will not tolerate the destruction of our rights. Unfortunately, unless the State of Missouri also accepts responsibility for defending its citizens when Federal Agents arrive at their door and provides for legal representation when the citizen is charged, then this is little more than a hollow threat. I, for one, will not be a test case for the supremacy clause without the commitment of the State of Missouri to stand by my side.

May I respectfully suggest that any legislator who believes that this bill would protect Missouri citizens from Federal prosecution should openly defy the Federal law and lead by example."


Its saying federal law is trumped by the Constitution. Technically all levels of government are responsible for protecting the Constitution.


I understand and support the sentiment, but state law may not supercede federal law. Unconstitutional laws are overturned the the SCOTUS, not by state or local legislation. What I'm trying to say is that IF the State of Missouri tells its citizens that it's OK to violate federal law because they believe that intrastate commerce is not under the jurisdiction of the Feds, then the state should be willing to actually stand between the federal agents and the citizen and/or provide for the citizen's legal challenge to the federal law. To do otherwise puts the citizen in jeopardy without state support and is a hollow gesture.

Please believe me whe I say that I detest the direction that the Kenyan and his gangsters are taking the country, but I'm not quite ready to give up on the processes that our Founding Fathers created for dealing with corrupt politicians. We must MAKE the system work.
The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism.
Karl Marx [Sound like anyone you know???]
JC10311
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Posted: 4/24/2013 2:42:05 PM
Originally Posted By thefreshman991:
I'll test the crap out of it.



What would you be testing? Are you testing whether or not the Federal Government has jurisdiction over something that happens solely within the state? What if Missouri decides that federal laws against slavery don't apply if the owner and slave never leave the state? All bluster aside, are you -- is anyone -- truly prepared to lose everything they own, their livelihood, and probably their freedom to test this if the state provides NO support?

I believe that ALL of the anti-gun laws ever passed are in fact unconstitutional. Unfortunately the SCOTUS disagrees with me and by my supporting the Constitution I've agreed that their opinion wins.
The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism.
Karl Marx [Sound like anyone you know???]
Flatulence
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Posted: 4/24/2013 2:55:31 PM
Originally Posted By JC10311:
Originally Posted By thefreshman991:
I'll test the crap out of it.



What would you be testing? Are you testing whether or not the Federal Government has jurisdiction over something that happens solely within the state? What if Missouri decides that federal laws against slavery don't apply if the owner and slave never leave the state? All bluster aside, are you -- is anyone -- truly prepared to lose everything they own, their livelihood, and probably their freedom to test this if the state provides NO support?

I believe that ALL of the anti-gun laws ever passed are in fact unconstitutional. Unfortunately the SCOTUS disagrees with me and by my supporting the Constitution I've agreed that their opinion wins.

Great wording in this post.

Seriously.


"Some of the greatest dads I've ever seen weren't so much perfect as they were willing to work hard to overcome their failings. Does that make sense?"

Yes. Yes it does.
Little_Bo_Peep
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Posted: 4/24/2013 3:43:33 PM
Beyond testing anything, the bill does not repeal Missouri statute 571.020, which makes it illegal to have any NFA goodies unless you comply with federal law. So the House bill nullifies all federal laws, but parts of remaining Missouri law will require us to abide by federal NFA laws. Possession of a SBR without a stamp would still be a class C felony. This removes the teeth of the bill in my opinion and will not provide “cash and carry” status for SBRs, suppressors, etc which was the part of the law that had my excited. :(
gerfungerpoken
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Posted: 4/24/2013 4:36:39 PM
Done.

"I support this bill with great enthusiasm. For too long have we endured abuses by the Federal Government against our right to keep and bear arms. The Second Amendment Preservation Act will declare to the Federal Government that Missourians will not tolerate having their civil liberties and state sovereignty trampled on."
ErikO
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Posted: 4/24/2013 5:51:44 PM
Originally Posted By Little_Bo_Peep:
Beyond testing anything, the bill does not repeal Missouri statute 571.020, which makes it illegal to have any NFA goodies unless you comply with federal law. So the House bill nullifies all federal laws, but parts of remaining Missouri law will require us to abide by federal NFA laws. Possession of a SBR without a stamp would still be a class C felony. This removes the teeth of the bill in my opinion and will not provide “cash and carry” status for SBRs, suppressors, etc which was the part of the law that had my excited. :(


It seems there is a fly in the ointment and Peep may have found it...
http://armedliberalinmo.blogspot.com/
Bowers v. DeVito "...there is no constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered by a criminal or the insane."
Bassgasm
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Posted: 4/24/2013 6:20:35 PM
Originally Posted By ErikO:
Originally Posted By Little_Bo_Peep:
Beyond testing anything, the bill does not repeal Missouri statute 571.020, which makes it illegal to have any NFA goodies unless you comply with federal law. So the House bill nullifies all federal laws, but parts of remaining Missouri law will require us to abide by federal NFA laws. Possession of a SBR without a stamp would still be a class C felony. This removes the teeth of the bill in my opinion and will not provide “cash and carry” status for SBRs, suppressors, etc which was the part of the law that had my excited. :(


It seems there is a fly in the ointment and Peep may have found it...


It's a pretty crazy Catch 22, and it's confusing as hell.
"Boil eggs, not 1911s."-_DR

"Sporterizing: The art of spending $700 on a $300 gun to make it worth $200." -GTwannabe
JOHNSON1911
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Posted: 4/24/2013 6:34:14 PM
Originally Posted By ErikO:
Originally Posted By Little_Bo_Peep:
Beyond testing anything, the bill does not repeal Missouri statute 571.020, which makes it illegal to have any NFA goodies unless you comply with federal law. So the House bill nullifies all federal laws, but parts of remaining Missouri law will require us to abide by federal NFA laws. Possession of a SBR without a stamp would still be a class C felony. This removes the teeth of the bill in my opinion and will not provide “cash and carry” status for SBRs, suppressors, etc which was the part of the law that had my excited. :(


It seems there is a fly in the ointment and Peep may have found it...


Just means that law has to be repealed next, does anyone have an update on the status of this?
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