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SGT69
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Posted: 5/15/2010 1:58:32 PM
I had a chance to test fire a Sig 516 and took a few photos. Several of us were sufficiently impressed to place early orders for personally owed versions.










SUB_MG
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Posted: 5/15/2010 3:35:14 PM
[Last Edit: 5/15/2010 3:36:29 PM by SUB_MG]
Good looking gun. I had heard at shot show that the new Sig 516 was using several of the features from the LWRCI guns. Can't blame them for copying from the best gas piston gun out there.

What price range are they selling for?

I have always loved the classic Sig 556 with the rail since I shot the 551 and 552. I was going to pick one up but it was priced too close to the LWRCI guns so I passed. I thought about it again when CDNN was closing them out and giving away a 522 if you bought one. That is a hell of a deal. I would love to get the 556 10" pistol and turn it into a SBR also.

Looks like Sig is going to make a big move in the AR market with these.
NOTRIOUS75
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Posted: 5/16/2010 8:28:01 AM
[Last Edit: 5/16/2010 8:30:37 AM by NOTRIOUS75]
Originally Posted By SUB_MG:
Good looking gun. I had heard at shot show that the new Sig 516 was using several of the features from the LWRCI guns. Can't blame them for copying from the best gas piston gun out there.

What price range are they selling for?

I have always loved the classic Sig 556 with the rail since I shot the 551 and 552. I was going to pick one up but it was priced too close to the LWRCI guns so I passed. I thought about it again when CDNN was closing them out and giving away a 522 if you bought one. That is a hell of a deal. I would love to get the 556 10" pistol and turn it into a SBR also.

Looks like Sig is going to make a big move in the AR market with these.



Actually the gas system looks alot more like the 556 gas system (atleast to me), if it looks like the LWRCi, then I dont see it.... (Not trying to start a 'bigger dick' contest here)

ETA: Its sunday morining i have been up for less than 30 minutes and Ive already sinned... GOD FORGIVE ME FOR COVETING MY NEIGHBOR'S GIRL!! (Even though I dont know who's this is, I REALLY want this!!)
ak4784
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Posted: 5/16/2010 8:32:49 AM
I saw these in Sigs new 2010 catalog just the other day. I also really liked the Sig517!
SUB_MG
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Posted: 5/16/2010 10:39:00 AM
[Last Edit: 5/16/2010 1:08:45 PM by SUB_MG]
Originally Posted By NOTRIOUS75:
Originally Posted By SUB_MG:
Good looking gun. I had heard at shot show that the new Sig 516 was using several of the features from the LWRCI guns. Can't blame them for copying from the best gas piston gun out there.

What price range are they selling for?

I have always loved the classic Sig 556 with the rail since I shot the 551 and 552. I was going to pick one up but it was priced too close to the LWRCI guns so I passed. I thought about it again when CDNN was closing them out and giving away a 522 if you bought one. That is a hell of a deal. I would love to get the 556 10" pistol and turn it into a SBR also.

Looks like Sig is going to make a big move in the AR market with these.



Actually the gas system looks alot more like the 556 gas system (atleast to me), if it looks like the LWRCi, then I dont see it.... (Not trying to start a 'bigger dick' contest here)

ETA: Its sunday morining i have been up for less than 30 minutes and Ive already sinned... GOD FORGIVE ME FOR COVETING MY NEIGHBOR'S GIRL!! (Even though I dont know who's this is, I REALLY want this!!)

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––-


I have not seen a picture of the gas system yet. Anyone want to post some picures?

The bolt carrier looks about the same but I'm not sure if they are using the same slick finish. The quad rail looks slightly different but I can not tell if they have the removable top section so you can service the gas
system. With the Troy flip up sights it looked just like the M6A2. The gas adjustment is different from the M6A3 and the rear sling QD is a nice addition.

I prefer the CHF barrels from LWRCI with the Ni-Corr finish versus the chrome lined since they should last about 4 times longer, 20K+

Here is a link with some good pictures to compare

http://www.expeditionexchange.com/lwrc/
eric10mm
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Posted: 5/16/2010 11:02:44 AM
Looks nice and I certainly would hope it runs well considering the price tag. Best feature to me is the integral QD swivel mount at the rear of the receiver a la Knight's. Is there a socket on each side of the receiver?

If y'all don't know my feeling on piston guns by now, well, let's just suffice it to say I might start consider buying them once any number of mfrs settle down and decide upon using just one set of specs for the gas system parts. Currently there are far too many proprietary parts for my tastes.
“When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.” Thomas Jefferson
SUB_MG
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Posted: 5/16/2010 2:27:31 PM
Originally Posted By NOTRIOUS75:
Originally Posted By SUB_MG:
Good looking gun. I had heard at shot show that the new Sig 516 was using several of the features from the LWRCI guns. Can't blame them for copying from the best gas piston gun out there.

What price range are they selling for?

I have always loved the classic Sig 556 with the rail since I shot the 551 and 552. I was going to pick one up but it was priced too close to the LWRCI guns so I passed. I thought about it again when CDNN was closing them out and giving away a 522 if you bought one. That is a hell of a deal. I would love to get the 556 10" pistol and turn it into a SBR also.

Looks like Sig is going to make a big move in the AR market with these.



Actually the gas system looks alot more like the 556 gas system (atleast to me), if it looks like the LWRCi, then I dont see it.... (Not trying to start a 'bigger dick' contest here)

ETA: Its sunday morining i have been up for less than 30 minutes and Ive already sinned... GOD FORGIVE ME FOR COVETING MY NEIGHBOR'S GIRL!! (Even though I dont know who's this is, I REALLY want this!!)
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/sig_sauer_sig516-tfb1.jpg


That shorty 516 looks good.

Love the little PSD but I would go with the 6.8SPC vs 5.56mm on PSD sized guns.
SGT69
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Posted: 5/17/2010 2:36:57 PM
[Last Edit: 5/18/2010 12:25:41 PM by SGT69]
Originally Posted By eric10mm:
Looks nice and I certainly would hope it runs well considering the price tag. Best feature to me is the integral QD swivel mount at the rear of the receiver a la Knight's. Is there a socket on each side of the receiver?


No, the swivel mount is only on the left side of the receiver.
-Duke-Nukem-
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Posted: 5/17/2010 3:06:45 PM
What is the street price going to be like on these? I wasn't able to find any distributors that had them listed, although curiously RSR Group has every model of Sig 556 on "closeout" right now. Hmm.

For those of you waiting for parts commonality (Eric) the trend in the past five years has been diversification and innovation, not consolidation. I don't think we will see standardization in the next five years either. At some point the pendulum will swing back, likely only after the military makes some decisions about what direction they want to go in. By that time who knows that guns will be available, at what cost, and what legislative hurdles we will have to jump to acquire them?

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better able to resist tyranny.

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eric10mm
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Posted: 5/17/2010 3:21:10 PM
Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:
For those of you waiting for parts commonality (Eric) the trend in the past five years has been diversification and innovation, not consolidation.

/Eric's dilemma



“When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.” Thomas Jefferson
SGT69
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Posted: 5/18/2010 12:25:12 PM
[Last Edit: 5/18/2010 12:31:02 PM by SGT69]
Here's a select fire 556 SBR.

SUB_MG
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Posted: 5/19/2010 12:55:12 AM
Looks like a lot of fun. Did you get any trigger time on it?
SGT69
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Posted: 5/19/2010 2:57:41 PM
Originally Posted By SUB_MG:
Looks like a lot of fun. Did you get any trigger time on it?


I brought my own loaded magazines to make certain I had an opportunity. I did fire the 556 and the 516. I've always enjoyed the full auto experience so I had a few short bursts and a 10-round string in full with the 556 SBR. Just enough to quench my desire to spend 10-12K for a select fire weapon of my own.

69camaro
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Posted: 5/19/2010 11:59:49 PM
so how does this gun not have the same problems all the other Piston ARs have. from the few photos you posted I dont see much diff between this and a Rugger 556, or any other adams arms converted bastard gun. Not saying that's bad just it doesn't look different enough to solve the piston issues. Something like the Para Ordnance TTR is at least a unique departure from the status quo. Not trying to be a party pooper but that is what I was thinking looking at the photos. The Sig 556 has a different bolt and carrier system I wish they had carried that through to this gun somehow.
Thorgrimm_the_Vain
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Posted: 5/20/2010 3:55:22 AM
Originally Posted By 69camaro:
so how does this gun not have the same problems all the other Piston ARs have. from the few photos you posted I dont see much diff between this and a Rugger 556, or any other adams arms converted bastard gun. Not saying that's bad just it doesn't look different enough to solve the piston issues. Something like the Para Ordnance TTR is at least a unique departure from the status quo. Not trying to be a party pooper but that is what I was thinking looking at the photos. The Sig 556 has a different bolt and carrier system I wish they had carried that through to this gun somehow.


What are the typical issues? I have nearly bought the CMMG gas conversion kit a few times.
69camaro
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Posted: 5/20/2010 8:33:55 AM
From first hand users and from internet boards I have read that every one of these systems still has reciever tilt effects even with the Bolt "improvements" That all piston kits in the current AR platforms are a retrofit to a platform not a design in iteself. The other reports are that all of the kits have long term durability/reliability issues. Which unless you are tossing 5k a year down range probably wont be an issue. I am most intrigued by the Para TTR system since it is a radically different modification to an AR type rifle. It does away with the reciever tube/spring and uses a one piece carrier that reminds me of an AK a little. Still its proprietary and I havent read any good reviews of it. Not saying the Sig is crap at all just that its bolt looks just like an Adams Arms bolt and I keep reading negative reviews of that system. I guess I am imposing a guilty by association effect on the Sig.

Does anyone know of any AR piston systems that has passed through any military testing?
eric10mm
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Posted: 5/20/2010 9:48:52 AM
Originally Posted By 69camaro:
Does anyone know of any AR piston systems that has passed through any military testing?

HK416?

“When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.” Thomas Jefferson
NOTRIOUS75
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Posted: 5/20/2010 10:07:17 AM
Originally Posted By eric10mm:
Originally Posted By 69camaro:
Does anyone know of any AR piston systems that has passed through any military testing?

HK416?



I love the HK416....
AFSOC
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Posted: 5/20/2010 10:07:23 AM
Originally Posted By eric10mm:
Originally Posted By 69camaro:
Does anyone know of any AR piston systems that has passed through any military testing?

HK416?



Failed in the SCAR competition but was procured by CAG in limited numbers via COTS purchase.
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Posted: 5/20/2010 12:42:29 PM
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
Originally Posted By eric10mm:
Originally Posted By 69camaro:
Does anyone know of any AR piston systems that has passed through any military testing?

HK416?



Failed in the SCAR competition but was procured by CAG in limited numbers via COTS purchase.


Are you referring to the 416 winning the Marine IAR contract? I'm not sure what CAG is (except for Carrier Air Group, hehe).
...when the able-bodied men of
a nation are trained in arms and organized, they are
better able to resist tyranny.

--Antonin Scalia, D.C. vs. Heller
AFSOC
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Posted: 5/20/2010 6:49:04 PM
Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
Originally Posted By eric10mm:
Originally Posted By 69camaro:
Does anyone know of any AR piston systems that has passed through any military testing?

HK416?



Failed in the SCAR competition but was procured by CAG in limited numbers via COTS purchase.


Are you referring to the 416 winning the Marine IAR contract? I'm not sure what CAG is (except for Carrier Air Group, hehe).


The IAR is NOT a 416... The 416 is JUST a piston M4... period...
The IAR fires automatically from an Open Bolt per the IAR requirement

CAG is Combat Applications Group
AKA Delta's New Secret Identity.

You should know that from the Video Games no?
"Deservins got nothin ta do with it."
SUB_MG
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Posted: 5/20/2010 9:19:42 PM
Originally Posted By 69camaro:
From first hand users and from internet boards I have read that every one of these systems still has reciever tilt effects even with the Bolt "improvements" That all piston kits in the current AR platforms are a retrofit to a platform not a design in iteself. The other reports are that all of the kits have long term durability/reliability issues. Which unless you are tossing 5k a year down range probably wont be an issue. I am most intrigued by the Para TTR system since it is a radically different modification to an AR type rifle. It does away with the reciever tube/spring and uses a one piece carrier that reminds me of an AK a little. Still its proprietary and I havent read any good reviews of it. Not saying the Sig is crap at all just that its bolt looks just like an Adams Arms bolt and I keep reading negative reviews of that system. I guess I am imposing a guilty by association effect on the Sig.

Does anyone know of any AR piston systems that has passed through any military testing?


The LWRCI guns do not have any issues with bolt tilt. Check out the back end of their bolt carriers. They have a larger diameter back end which prevents the tilt. This is just one of the advancements that they have made on the gas piston guns.

Check out the following link to read more about their advancements.

http://www.expeditionexchange.com/lwrc/
-Duke-Nukem-
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Posted: 5/20/2010 11:05:34 PM
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
The IAR is NOT a 416... The 416 is JUST a piston M4... period...
The IAR fires automatically from an Open Bolt per the IAR requirement

CAG is Combat Applications Group
AKA Delta's New Secret Identity.

You should know that from the Video Games no?


I don't know much from video games, but unfortunately for me I read all these articles instead of just asking you.

http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2009/12/02/hk-wins-marine-corps-iar-contract-with-hk416-variant/

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/03/hk-wins-usmc-iar-competition-big-news/

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2009/12/marine_IAR_120209w/

And according to the articles, the IAR requirement was changed to closed-bolt operation sometime after they turned away from the LWRC entry. The rumor mill has it that the whole IAR thing was going nowhere, like a bunch of other procurement competitions have in the past five years, until the top Marine brass figured they could use it as an end-around to get the HK gun into troops hands as soon as possible and replace a bunch of worn out SAWs and other weapons. That's why they aren't worried about the lack of extra-high capacity mags and stuff like that, because they don't really care about truly replacing the SAW right now, they just want rifles that work in the hands of the men who need them, and they needed a way to get some quickly, on their own, instead of piggybacking onto a larger contract with Big Army and/or Big Navy, which doesn't appear to be happening any time soon.

According to rumor at least.
...when the able-bodied men of
a nation are trained in arms and organized, they are
better able to resist tyranny.

--Antonin Scalia, D.C. vs. Heller
AFSOC
Killin a man is a hell of a thing...
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Posted: 5/20/2010 11:10:52 PM
Originally Posted By SUB_MG:
Originally Posted By 69camaro:
From first hand users and from internet boards I have read that every one of these systems still has reciever tilt effects even with the Bolt "improvements" That all piston kits in the current AR platforms are a retrofit to a platform not a design in iteself. The other reports are that all of the kits have long term durability/reliability issues. Which unless you are tossing 5k a year down range probably wont be an issue. I am most intrigued by the Para TTR system since it is a radically different modification to an AR type rifle. It does away with the reciever tube/spring and uses a one piece carrier that reminds me of an AK a little. Still its proprietary and I havent read any good reviews of it. Not saying the Sig is crap at all just that its bolt looks just like an Adams Arms bolt and I keep reading negative reviews of that system. I guess I am imposing a guilty by association effect on the Sig.

Does anyone know of any AR piston systems that has passed through any military testing?


The LWRCI guns do not have any issues with bolt tilt. Check out the back end of their bolt carriers. They have a larger diameter back end which prevents the tilt. This is just one of the advancements that they have made on the gas piston guns.

Check out the following link to read more about their advancements.

http://www.expeditionexchange.com/lwrc/


Back when ammo was cheap (Green Tip for I think it was $150 a k) I was throwing 2k a weekend down the range... EVERY weekend... I would surpass 5k EVERY 3 weeks... I shot a LOT of you all's ammo when I was IN... This went on pretty regularly from August 1998- May 2005 and I was never able to pick that pace back up after Cancer treatments... Trying to build up some ammo so that I can return to actual TRAINING!!!
"Deservins got nothin ta do with it."
AFSOC
Killin a man is a hell of a thing...
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Posted: 5/20/2010 11:15:29 PM
Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
The IAR is NOT a 416... The 416 is JUST a piston M4... period...
The IAR fires automatically from an Open Bolt per the IAR requirement

CAG is Combat Applications Group
AKA Delta's New Secret Identity.

You should know that from the Video Games no?


I don't know much from video games, but unfortunately for me I read all these articles instead of just asking you.

http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2009/12/02/hk-wins-marine-corps-iar-contract-with-hk416-variant/

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/03/hk-wins-usmc-iar-competition-big-news/

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2009/12/marine_IAR_120209w/

And according to the articles, the IAR requirement was changed to closed-bolt operation sometime after they turned away from the LWRC entry. The rumor mill has it that the whole IAR thing was going nowhere, like a bunch of other procurement competitions have in the past five years, until the top Marine brass figured they could use it as an end-around to get the HK gun into troops hands as soon as possible and replace a bunch of worn out SAWs and other weapons. That's why they aren't worried about the lack of extra-high capacity mags and stuff like that, because they don't really care about truly replacing the SAW right now, they just want rifles that work in the hands of the men who need them, and they needed a way to get some quickly, on their own, instead of piggybacking onto a larger contract with Big Army and/or Big Navy, which doesn't appear to be happening any time soon.

According to rumor at least.


Unfortunately most of the resources listed are parroting the Marine corps Times which is well known for being worse than a Gun Rag!
Funny that the Selection had a set of requirements and they end run the reqs to buy a weapon that can't do what they required...
Guess it matters not since the contract has not been awarded, just a winner selected the contract will likely be cancelled (the Current Administration is not going to buy war making machines!) The Rifle doesn't DO anything that the current rifles don't.
"Deservins got nothin ta do with it."
Brother_Kane
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Posted: 5/20/2010 11:37:11 PM
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
The IAR is NOT a 416... The 416 is JUST a piston M4... period...
The IAR fires automatically from an Open Bolt per the IAR requirement

CAG is Combat Applications Group
AKA Delta's New Secret Identity.

You should know that from the Video Games no?


I don't know much from video games, but unfortunately for me I read all these articles instead of just asking you.

http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2009/12/02/hk-wins-marine-corps-iar-contract-with-hk416-variant/

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/03/hk-wins-usmc-iar-competition-big-news/

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2009/12/marine_IAR_120209w/

And according to the articles, the IAR requirement was changed to closed-bolt operation sometime after they turned away from the LWRC entry. The rumor mill has it that the whole IAR thing was going nowhere, like a bunch of other procurement competitions have in the past five years, until the top Marine brass figured they could use it as an end-around to get the HK gun into troops hands as soon as possible and replace a bunch of worn out SAWs and other weapons. That's why they aren't worried about the lack of extra-high capacity mags and stuff like that, because they don't really care about truly replacing the SAW right now, they just want rifles that work in the hands of the men who need them, and they needed a way to get some quickly, on their own, instead of piggybacking onto a larger contract with Big Army and/or Big Navy, which doesn't appear to be happening any time soon.

According to rumor at least.


Unfortunately most of the resources listed are parroting the Marine corps Times which is well known for being worse than a Gun Rag!
Funny that the Selection had a set of requirements and they end run the reqs to buy a weapon that can't do what they required...
Guess it matters not since the contract has not been awarded, just a winner selected the contract will likely be cancelled (the Current Administration is not going to buy war making machines!) The Rifle doesn't DO anything that the current rifles don't.


I am fond of the idea for a US Military FAL and a belt feed SAW both in 7.62x39...
Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.
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