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toothlesrooster
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Posted: 2/13/2008 5:01:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/13/2008 5:02:01 AM EST by toothlesrooster]
I have an engineer buddy that works for ATK in the Lake City ammo plant. He has been told that Winchester is going to be dropping prices on ammo in the near future. He couldn't say how much or exactly when it will happen, but he says he has it on pretty good authority that it's going to happen.

Don't get pissy with me if it doesn't but I figured I'd share the possibility that it could happen!
eric10mm
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Posted: 2/13/2008 5:31:29 AM EST
Color me a cynic, but I'll believe it when I see it.

On the flip side, I read in the Red Star this morning that we should expect to see gasoline hit $3.40/gallon in the next few weeks. Unfortunately once such "news" gets out there, it becomes reality.
“When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.” Thomas Jefferson


Him: "I was fighting a bad case of cant."
Me: "Yeah, can't shoot."
JakeT
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Posted: 2/13/2008 6:18:04 AM EST
Toothles was sick yesterday, that may have just been the fever talking
boomfab
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Posted: 2/13/2008 6:33:46 AM EST
If lead/copper/brass prices drop, then ammo prices will drop. Not a second before.
eric10mm
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Posted: 2/13/2008 6:45:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By boomfab:
If lead/copper/brass prices drop, then ammo prices will drop. Not a second before.

[devil's advocate] But now that they've seen that every round of ammo they can make will sell for the current high prices, what incentive would they have to reduce the selling price and also their profits?[/devil's advocate]
“When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.” Thomas Jefferson


Him: "I was fighting a bad case of cant."
Me: "Yeah, can't shoot."
PolyTechKID
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Posted: 2/13/2008 7:22:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By JakeT:
Toothles was sick yesterday, that may have just been the fever talking


You weren't taking out of date meds were you?
toothlesrooster
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Posted: 2/13/2008 8:52:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By eric10mm:

Originally Posted By boomfab:
If lead/copper/brass prices drop, then ammo prices will drop. Not a second before.

[devil's advocate] But now that they've seen that every round of ammo they can make will sell for the current high prices, what incentive would they have to reduce the selling price and also their profits?[/devil's advocate]


Because in my group of friends ammo purchasing has droped due to sky high prices (with the exception of Jake, he's buying the crap out of it lately) and we have all started reloading.

This is coming from an engineer from ATK. I have to say, he's been correct with other info he's dropped my way.

My meds have nothing to do with this. I don't take them anyway.
eric10mm
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Posted: 2/13/2008 9:44:02 AM EST
Don't get me wrong, toothless, I'd love to see the prices come back down any amount. But the cynic/realist in my believes otherwise.
“When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.” Thomas Jefferson


Him: "I was fighting a bad case of cant."
Me: "Yeah, can't shoot."
toothlesrooster
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Posted: 2/13/2008 10:11:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/13/2008 10:11:53 AM EST by toothlesrooster]
I would have to say, it does in me as well. I'm just relaying info guys, it's kind of funny the responses though.

If it does, great. If not, oh well. I've talked to several old shooters that said the prices of ammo were even higher than they are now back in the early 80's. They came down and I'm optimistic that they will again someday.

Until then, I'll keep reloading for a fraction of the cost the rest of the world pays.

Wow, post #300.
PolyTechKID
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Posted: 2/13/2008 10:44:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/13/2008 10:46:22 AM EST by PolyTechKID]
Toothless,
You give that 35 a work out yet? I found a 34, but the seller is being slow to respond and my cash is burning a hole in my pocket, and to top it off my dealer is out of contact for a while
GaryM
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Posted: 2/13/2008 11:40:26 AM EST
Prices are bound to drop sometime, it is just that I (nor anyone else) can tell when.
I haven't checked the commodities markets for spot prices on lead, copper etc. but I am damn sure they have been artificialli inflated lately.
I can see them dropping, I think they have figured out they have overpriced themselves out of the market.
This all part of the natural free market cycle.
The winner here is Wolf. Folk who wouldn't touch it before found themselves buying it and maybe now even have a taste for it.
Damn, I sound like some sort of economics freak....
I is a guessin' I shore nuff go back to ma outstate mahzurah talkin' now.....

"The world is full of stupid people" The Refreshments, Banditos.
eric10mm
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Posted: 2/13/2008 11:49:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By GaryM:
The winner here is Wolf. Folk who wouldn't touch it before found themselves buying it and maybe now even have a taste for it.

Yes but,......

Now Wolf is nearly $200/K for 7,62x39 and well over $200 for .223. I liked it much better when it was cheaper.
“When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.” Thomas Jefferson


Him: "I was fighting a bad case of cant."
Me: "Yeah, can't shoot."
BaNo
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Posted: 2/13/2008 12:28:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By toothlesrooster:
I have an engineer buddy that works for ATK in the Lake City ammo plant. He has been told that Winchester is going to be dropping prices on ammo in the near future. He couldn't say how much or exactly when it will happen, but he says he has it on pretty good authority that it's going to happen.

Don't get pissy with me if it doesn't but I figured I'd share the possibility that it could happen!


Just so you know Winchester has not been involved with LCAAP since 1999 when they lost the contract to run LCAAP. LCAAP is now ran and managed by ATK, which owns various ammo companies(but not Winchester which is owned by OLIN) the largest of which is Federal. So is it possible he means Federal?
Also people at LCAAP have very little to do with the commercial line ammunition, the only involvement they have is when lots that don't meet QA are broken down, and transfered to other ATK companies, mainly Federal.
<Gloftoe> you believe everything you read on the intarweb?
FREEDOMGAS!!1
toothlesrooster
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Posted: 2/13/2008 8:09:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/13/2008 8:10:41 PM EST by toothlesrooster]

Originally Posted By BaNo:

Originally Posted By toothlesrooster:
I have an engineer buddy that works for ATK in the Lake City ammo plant. He has been told that Winchester is going to be dropping prices on ammo in the near future. He couldn't say how much or exactly when it will happen, but he says he has it on pretty good authority that it's going to happen.

Don't get pissy with me if it doesn't but I figured I'd share the possibility that it could happen!


Just so you know Winchester has not been involved with LCAAP since 1999 when they lost the contract to run LCAAP. LCAAP is now ran and managed by ATK, which owns various ammo companies(but not Winchester which is owned by OLIN) the largest of which is Federal. So is it possible he means Federal?
Also people at LCAAP have very little to do with the commercial line ammunition, the only involvement they have is when lots that don't meet QA are broken down, and transfered to other ATK companies, mainly Federal.


I know that Olin owns Win and ATK owns Federal and CCI, to name a few. But from what I'm gathering there is inter-corperate communications. It came down from his supervisors. This is just one buddy from ATK, I have another who is still currently an engineer there, but seeing as he's from Germany he's not much into the shooting sports. I think he likes hugging trees a bit more but I'll pick his brain about it when I talk to him. The other two friends just recently left ATK/LCAAP for better jobs but were engineer's at ATK's heavy weapons plants in Maryland before they moved here to work in the small arms end of things, so they're of no use for answers.

Either way I know that you can't count your chickens before they hatch, but coming from Travis I wouldn't doubt it's going to happen. "When" is the key.
GarrettJ
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Posted: 2/13/2008 10:00:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By eric10mm:
[devil's advocate] But now that they've seen that every round of ammo they can make will sell for the current high prices, what incentive would they have to reduce the selling price and also their profits?[/devil's advocate]

Good question. The answer is economics. If Ammo Maker A sees that he can drop his price by 2% and sell enough more ammo to increase his profits, he will do that. When he does, Ammo Maker B will be forced do drop his prices as well to compete.

Just no telling if/when this will come about.
eric10mm
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Posted: 2/14/2008 4:05:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By BaNo:
Also people at LCAAP have very little to do with the commercial line ammunition, the only involvement they have is when lots that don't meet QA are broken down, and transfered to other ATK companies, mainly Federal.

Which is where we get the "XM" line of ammo that we love so much. XM193 55gn FMJ, XM855 62 FMJSC, XM80 147gn .308 FMJ, XM119LR 175gn .308, etc. For one reason or another it didn't quite meet specs for our boys in green, so they repackage it as "XM" ammo that we civvies literally drool to get. If the stuff we buy as "XM" branded ammo is so good, and it is, just imagine what our boys in green are getting. NOTHING but the best! Eventually.
“When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.” Thomas Jefferson


Him: "I was fighting a bad case of cant."
Me: "Yeah, can't shoot."
eric10mm
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Posted: 2/14/2008 4:07:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By GarrettJ:

Originally Posted By eric10mm:
[devil's advocate] But now that they've seen that every round of ammo they can make will sell for the current high prices, what incentive would they have to reduce the selling price and also their profits?[/devil's advocate]

Good question. The answer is economics. If Ammo Maker A sees that he can drop his price by 2% and sell enough more ammo to increase his profits, he will do that. When he does, Ammo Maker B will be forced do drop his prices as well to compete.

Just no telling if/when this will come about.

That's a very good and valid point. Especially if their .gov contracts start getting smaller at some point.

Just wait, Barack or Hillary will get into office, bring our boys back home in 6 mos and then we'll be swimming in ammo.
“When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.” Thomas Jefferson


Him: "I was fighting a bad case of cant."
Me: "Yeah, can't shoot."
SUB_MG
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Posted: 2/14/2008 5:21:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By eric10mm:

Originally Posted By GarrettJ:

Originally Posted By eric10mm:
[devil's advocate] But now that they've seen that every round of ammo they can make will sell for the current high prices, what incentive would they have to reduce the selling price and also their profits?[/devil's advocate]

Good question. The answer is economics. If Ammo Maker A sees that he can drop his price by 2% and sell enough more ammo to increase his profits, he will do that. When he does, Ammo Maker B will be forced do drop his prices as well to compete.

Just no telling if/when this will come about.

That's a very good and valid point. Especially if their .gov contracts start getting smaller at some point.

Just wait, Barack or Hillary will get into office, bring our boys back home in 6 mos and then we'll be swimming in ammo.


Yep, we'll be swimming in ammo at the cheapest prices we've seen in long time ....but we will not have any guns left to shoot the ammo after Barak or Hillary get done taking all of our guns.
all4freedom
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Posted: 2/14/2008 7:18:53 PM EST
It's true, that is why WWB 9mm went up $3 per 100 recently.
"You wanna see a gun show, I'll lift up my shirt." -Ted Nugent NRA Annual Meeting 2007

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toothlesrooster
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Posted: 2/14/2008 7:39:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By all4freedom:
It's true, that is why WWB 9mm went up $3 per 100 recently.


And what goes up can NEVER go down! It's a fact!
ndolson
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Posted: 2/15/2008 3:13:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By eric10mm:
Just wait, Barack or Hillary will get into office, bring our boys back home in 6 mos and then we'll be swimming in ammo.


Except us lowly peasants can no longer buy .gov surplus ammo
gatewayhelpdesk
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Posted: 2/15/2008 1:18:42 PM EST
Here are the trends...

hrt4me
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Posted: 2/15/2008 1:38:18 PM EST
I used to work at LCAAP as an engineer when Olin was the government contractor, so I'll call some of my former co-workers and inquire...
toothlesrooster
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Posted: 2/16/2008 1:34:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By hrt4me:
I used to work at LCAAP as an engineer when Olin was the government contractor, so I'll call some of my former co-workers and inquire...


From what I gather from my buddies, LCAAP was MUCH better off when Olin ran it. They say the current management is a joke.
jhuggans
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Posted: 2/19/2008 6:31:35 AM EST
Just an update....the local (warrensburg, mo) ammo prices finally went up accross the board.

100 rnd Winchester 9mm = $18.42 up from $15.72
550 rnd Federal Bulk Pack 22lr = $11.97 up from $9.98


I'm glad I got my reloading stuff.